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Carter/Giroux/Leino/Zherdev cap hit next year?

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Old
07-23-2010, 10:25 AM
  #26
McNasty
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Originally Posted by langerrr View Post
i wouldn't mind giving giroux a johan franzen type deal.. 11 years at 43.5 million which makes a caphit of 3.95 million a year.. give carter a front loaded contract with a cap hit around the same as richards 5.75

leino and zherdev are both UFA i would actually prefer to lockdown leino first for a 3 year/9 million contract... a caphit of 3 million.

as for zherdev i think its too early to tell i dont think the flyers will be able to hold onto him after this season.
See I think Detroit was insane to lock Franzen to that type of deal when hes 30 years old and hasn't broken the 60 point mark in a season. I expect about 50-60 points out of Giroux and I would think the Flyers sign him to a 2 year deal in the neighborhood of 5 million, similar to what the Blues just did with David Perron.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Just out of curiosity, are you saying there's no way the Flyers will offer him anything over 6 million, or are you saying there's no way he deserves 6+?
A little of both I guess. If he scores 40 -40 and plays like he can, I think the Flyers try for just under 6 long term. I think the only way he deserves in the 7 range he has to score 50-40 or over and if that happens I don't think he stays with the team. I think Carter is a 35-35 career guy and that does not warrant 6 + imo.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I'm just going to address your last paragraph. With regards to unloading Briere, the primary goal of unloading him would be to get space, not assets. Also, Carter -- he's not even in his prime -- he's getting there, and he's a proven scorer. He's done it and he can do it again. Briere's past his prime, but he's still effective. All that taken together - there's no reason why we shouldn't be trying to move Briere now. We need to try to win the Cup within the next 2-3 years. Trading Carter and getting assets doesn't help us do that...trading Briere for a roster player or two, maybe a pick, does (while allowing us to keep people like Carter, Giroux, etc)

I'd be surprised if we keep Carter, Richards, and Briere, only because that's basically 3 $6 million contracts. Also ask yourself this: how many times has Briere been the best player in a game for us over the course of the season. Richards? Carter? Briere's not even close to the other two in that category.

Something's gotta give, so we'll see.
I think you are missing some of the nuance of my argument. Again, I would prefer to keep Carter as a valuable commodity in the center role but from a business standpoint he's the main chip that allows for so many options to address any problems that surface this season such as the goaltending and possibly another year of jekyl and hyde hockey (underachieving). I don't expect that to happen considering the character of players in the locker room (some via trade like O'donnell) and the experience they just went through in the playoffs together but we don't know. The offense may be very streaky this year given some of the tendencies in some of our forward players and with the goalie situation even if our D allows 15-20 shots a game we may still lose tight games against some of the better teams. This is what concerns me. If they are not doing as expected like last year trying to dump Briere will not net you as much as Carter. The Kessel comparison is a good one. Again this is all going to depend on how the season plays out. It's actually good we do have a commodity to leverage the way we do that is why I said an injury to the guy would be devastating....then you have to try and just dump salary like Briere and then make a trade. The whole transaction process would be much more difficult with Briere than Carter and with the way Holmgren always corners himself into a position of weakness we know he would botch the deal in someway because it's too difficult for him. We saw it with Gagne in certain respects and we would see it with Briere who would hem Holmgren in and limit his options.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:38 AM
  #29
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2 of those guys are gone next offseason. we have no cap space going forward after the Mezsaros trade, the Walker trade, and signing Shelley, resigining Leighton to multi year deals.
whatever 2 Holmgren views as the biggest and toughest he will keep.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:39 AM
  #30
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Carter: 6.5 mil per, 6 years
Giroux: 4 mil per, 3 years
Leino: 3 mil, 2 years
Zherdev (if he plays well): 5 mil per, 3 years...on a different team.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:50 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Easier said then done.

First you have to find a team that Briere would waive his NMC to go to. Then that team has to be willing to eat Briere's salary. Briere's salary doesn't drop until the 13/14, chances are he's probably with us until then.
The thing is, with the no movement clause, they can't even demote him to the minors. The only thing they can do is buy him out and then you're looking at a large amount of money that goes against the cap for x amount of years.

I'm hoping that with the next CBA, they get rid of the No Movement/No Trade clauses.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:04 PM
  #32
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Something tells me that Carter might be willing to take a Richards type of contract for us. I think he'd like to stay with his buddies. For some reason, he doesn't strike me as a guy who puts money before hockey. I could be wrong though.

Carter: 5.5 on a long contract.
Giroux: 2-4 depending on how well he plays this season
Leino: VASTLY depends on how he plays. anywhere from 1 million-3.5 million
Zherdev: I think he's going to demand a hefty contract, because i have a feeling he's going to have a great season. 3.5-5

regardless, someone will probably have to go.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:11 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The thing is, with the no movement clause, they can't even demote him to the minors. The only thing they can do is buy him out and then you're looking at a large amount of money that goes against the cap for x amount of years.

I'm hoping that with the next CBA, they get rid of the No Movement/No Trade clauses.
They won't, nor should they. The NMCs/NTCs are the GMs own creation.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Something tells me that Carter might be willing to take a Richards type of contract for us. I think he'd like to stay with his buddies. For some reason, he doesn't strike me as a guy who puts money before hockey. I could be wrong though.

Carter: 5.5 on a long contract.
Carter has already proven his willingness to play ball twice. He signed for the same ELC without bonus! that Richards did. Then he signed a short contract to favour the Flyers by being RFA at the end, instead of adding a 4th year which would have taken him to UFA. Homer will remember that.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Carter has already proven his willingness to play ball twice. He signed for the same ELC without bonus! that Richards did. Then he signed a short contract to favour the Flyers by being RFA at the end, instead of adding a 4th year which would have taken him to UFA. Homer will remember that.
He also signed PRIOR to July 1st, which took the whole RFA offer sheet issue out of play.

*ing *hole.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He also signed PRIOR to July 1st, which took the whole RFA offer sheet issue out of play.

*ing *hole.
I know, he actually WANTS to be a Flyer. Imagine.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:24 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Carter has already proven his willingness to play ball twice. He signed for the same ELC without bonus! that Richards did. Then he signed a short contract to favour the Flyers by being RFA at the end, instead of adding a 4th year which would have taken him to UFA. Homer will remember that.
So we're back to the loyalty thing? So if Carter underachieves this year he gets a default contract based on loyality? If Holmgren does that he's definitely a ******* business person....

Again, IMO Carter staying or going should be more the result of how he and the team perform this year. That's typically the way it should be but if Holmgren wants to continue to run the team like la cosa nostra...we're in more trouble than I thought.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:30 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
So we're back to the loyalty thing? So if Carter underachieves this year he gets a default contract based on loyality? If Holmgren does that he's definitely a ******* business person....

Again, IMO Carter staying or going should be more the result of how he and the team perform this year. That's typically the way it should be but if Holmgren wants to continue to run the team like la cosa nostra...we're in more trouble than I thought.
So, what's under performing in your book? In his last 156 games, Carter has 79 goals. That's better than a goal every other game.

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07-23-2010, 12:44 PM
  #39
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Zherdev is gone next year unless the team movies Carter, Briere, or Kimmo. And, even then, there's a good chance he bolts for the biggest contract.

However, we'll know by February or so if he is staying. If so, he'll have a new contract signed and someone else on the team will be on their way out.

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Old
07-23-2010, 12:47 PM
  #40
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Carter also had his best season after receiving his last contract, not before it. He played for his money unlike many who play to get the money and then slide back.

I like Carter, but I know hockey is a business first. $6M would be fair and I think he may take around that point if the deal has a decent term. His best hockey is ahead of him and that is a fair price for a perenial 40 goal, 80 point guy who will grow in the face off circle, as a penalty killer and hopefully add physicality and consistency to his game.

I'll echo the Giroux into the 3.5 range with Leino and Zherdev having to earn every dollar of a potential new contract.

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Old
07-23-2010, 02:16 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
So we're back to the loyalty thing? So if Carter underachieves this year he gets a default contract based on loyality? If Holmgren does that he's definitely a ******* business person....

Again, IMO Carter staying or going should be more the result of how he and the team perform this year. That's typically the way it should be but if Holmgren wants to continue to run the team like la cosa nostra...we're in more trouble than I thought.
Of course his performance this year, and the team's, will factor in. That's why it's stupid to trade Carter now because of what might happen. He's always been a workhorse, the broken feet were flukes.

If he scores 45 goals and the team wins, he'll earn the right to ask for a raise and will get it. If he has an off year, there will be less risk of an offer sheet and he'll get a raise but not an exorbitant one.

People on here are panicking about the cap for the year after next when this year's team isn't even set. If we need to, we can dump Hartnell, Briere or Timonen, or all three, next off season. It's no big deal.

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Old
07-23-2010, 08:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Yeah, makes sense. Flyers in first place in the Atlantic, second in the East, and Cup contenders trade their 1C and leading scorer, Jeff Carter, because he's having too good a season and will need a raise.
Yeah, that's going to happen.

Give your head a shake.
Who said it is going to happen that way? An integral piece (or pieces) of the team could go down with injuries and something may need to be done. Maybe he just isn't producing? Maybe the Flyers are not in a great position come the deadline? We'll see...

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07-23-2010, 08:44 PM
  #43
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who cares, either way shooter will overpay for whoever he keeps. whay get yourself worked up.

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Old
07-23-2010, 08:56 PM
  #44
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The Flyers and Zherdev are just using each other. It's like a Summer Lovin' "friend". Both parties know it's just for selfish fun and there's no expectation that it will last long. The Flyers needed a cheap contract offensively gifted player and Zherdev needed a good team that he could rack up alot of points with and then cash in on the UFA market next year. Win-Win.

-Carter likely gets a 7-8 yr deal with a 6-6.5m cap hit.
-Comparing Giroux to what some other young forwards have gotten coming off the ELC, 5yr 4m cap hit.
-I agree Leino all depends on this season. He probably won't get the ice time to put up huge numbers. I think the Flyers will have to extend him before he gets a sniff at the UFA market. Someone said 3yrs at 3m a piece, sounds reasonable. But if he wants to test the market after putting up some decent pts, a mediocre team will pay him 4m a season to try and prove he is a top line player.

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Old
07-23-2010, 11:34 PM
  #45
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Carter, needs a big contract year, he could get 6 now but another 40+ goal year and consistent play he could get 7.5 (that is the low/high as I see it).

Giroux is RFA so that should give the Flyers a solid bargaining position. Unless he has a Backstromesque year with like 30/60, I see him signing a short deal for decent money, say 2 years at $2.5M per. Most he could get is $4M and that would take a BIG season.


Leino is UFA, I don't see him topping $2M and change under any circumstances, probably more like 2 years/$3.5M total.


Zherdev is a tough one to call, if he balls out then he will be asking for $4M again, my guess is that he goes back to Russia for roughly that much (again not the biggest Zherdev fan as you have likely noticed).

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07-24-2010, 11:46 AM
  #46
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i just cant see carter taking/getting more than what richards did. if anything, i think it'll be the same.

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07-24-2010, 11:51 AM
  #47
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i just cant see carter taking/getting more than what richards did. if anything, i think it'll be the same.
Richards's cap hit is brought down by his deal including some of his RFA years and some of his over-the-hill years. His salary is $8.4M in 12-13. If you look at the 5 years that would correspond to what a 5 year contract to Carter would be, his average salary is $7.12M. Carter shouldn't get more than that in those years, but he could demand something close.

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07-24-2010, 12:02 PM
  #48
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right. i just wouldn't be surprised in the least to see carter take a similar, long contract with the team that brings his cap hit down to what richard's is, if not lower.

edit: although with the recent kovy contract fiasco, it may be harder to pull that off.

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Old
07-24-2010, 12:09 PM
  #49
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i don't see how zherdev will resign here. i expect him to take millions to play elsewhere.

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Old
07-24-2010, 12:49 PM
  #50
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Carter: 7 Years, 45.5M :: 6.5M/per
Giroux: 5 Years 20M :: 4M/per
Leino: 3 Years, 7.2M :: 2.4M/per

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