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MLD 2010 Mickey Ion 1st round: #3 Regina Capitals vs. #6 Philadelphia Blazers

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Old
07-20-2010, 03:37 AM
  #76
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Haynes was actually on my list, but I forgot him in the post. Were you wondering why my top-10 was only 9 players?



I have jumped on board with your "larger sample size" idea, but it does have some flaws. Once you go much further than 5 or 6 years it really starts to flatter the person's numbers. Lots of players can share the same 5 year prime, but the same 11 year prime? Not likely!
that's why I include per-game averages too, to account for the stragglers on either end of the player's career who may have been better per-game.

It works both ways, though - extend the years on the Romnes link and he drops because he did nothing outside of those years.

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Looking at a 10 year prime doesn't work.

Split Gardiner's prime in half and look at each half.....
1947-1952: he's 15th in assists
1952-1957: he's 14th in assists

I'll give you Gordie Howe, but the rest aren't much better tha what Romnes faced.

Just because the 3 that finished ahead of Romnes weren't HHOFers doesn't mean he didn't play against any. Morenz/Joliat, Boucher/Cook, Primeau/Conacher, Shore, Apps, Cowley....
I disagree. But maybe in a couple weeks we can really discuss this.

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07-20-2010, 12:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post

I would have taken a shot at him for second line duty, but you have definately shown he is, not only a solid first liner, but one of the best offensive player in the draft.

I still, however, like him much more for his goalscoring than his playmaking.

I agree with this. I just don't know how finishing second in assists with a grand total of 4 in pre-1910 hockey translates.

I have read that Cyclone Taylor was the first hockey player who made setting up his teammates a priority when it came to generating offense (which makes sense, considering he obliterated the competition in terms of assists). So what does finishing second in the league with 4 assists really mean if it predates the "invention" of using playmaking to generate offense?


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Old
07-20-2010, 05:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I agree with this. I just don't know how finishing second in assists with a grand total of 4 in pre-1910 hockey translates.

I have read that Cyclone Taylor was the first hockey player who made setting up his teammates a priority when it came to generating offense (which makes sense, considering he obliterated the competition in terms of assists). So what does finishing second in the league with 4 assists really mean if it predates the "invention" of using playmaking to generate offense?
It doesn't translate to much over one season. But over an extended period, Jordan was a dominant playmaker (in the context of that time, of course) Better sample size, better results - right?

Most Assists in recorded top-level hockey (CAHL/ECAHA), 1903-1909 seasons (min. 6)

(FAHL not included as there are no reconstructed assists there, same with 1905 CAHL)

NameGPAAPG
Alf Smith32230.72
Russell Bowie44220.50
Blair Russell36180.50
Herb Jordan46180.39
Pud Glass41130.32
Ernie Johnson43130.30
Jack Marshall31120.39
Harry Westwick37120.32
Walter Smaill36110.28
Cecil Blachford24100.42
*** *****49100.20
****** *******3090.30
Marty Walsh2180.38
Billy Gilmour2880.29
Jack McDonald2880.29
*** ********1870.39
Cyclone Taylor2170.33
******* *******2270.32
Ernie Russell2470.29
******** ****1760.35
Frank McGee1760.35
Lester Patrick1860.33
Harry Smith2160.29
Jimmy Gardner2560.24
Harvey Pulford2960.21

Bolded are ATD players.

Yes, surprises like Blair Russell, Jack Marshall, Cecil Blachford, and Alf Smith kept pace with him, but he also topped a lot of awesome players in this time: Moose Johnson, Harry Westwick, Marty Walsh, Ernie Russell, Frank McGee, Lester Patrick.

Also note that there is a big dropoff after Jordan; he is as far from 1st as he is from Pud Glass, next after him.

It also appears that Ottawa had a disproportionately higher number of assists recontructed and Quebec a disproportionately lower amount. This could be due to team style of play, or it could be the descriptiveness of the reporting. But it does appear to put Jordan at a disadvantage. I'd have to look more into thispart of it later.

Jordan is as good a playmaker as you'll find from his era in the MLD. Imagine if you could get a player from another era right at the start of the MLD, with 64% more assists than anyone else avaialble from that era, and one guy with half as many games barely tops his per-game average? That's what we're looking at here.

Of course he's a good playmaker.


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Old
07-21-2010, 03:58 PM
  #79
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I planned on having more time to do this because the deadline was supposed to be Thursday, but here we go. Here's my take on the forwards:

First Lines

-Jordan is a better goalscorer, Lacroix a better passer, maybe the best in the draft. Both are the best players on either line. Lacroix was also more defensively responsible. Wash.
-Drury is out of place on a 1st line. He provides defensive presence, but in terms of offensive skills, he lags far behind Labine and Jordan. Drury has, to my knowledge, never been a top line C, always being behind Sakic, Forsberg, Conroy, Gomez, Dubinsky, etc. He is also out of position, normally being a C. Scanlan was noted for playing on a top line, doing some dirty work. He provides two-way play as well. Advantage Scanlan.
-Both are the gritty players of the line. Labine has one top 10 in goals, MacLean doesn't. Both have pretty good size and use it effectively. Labine was a dirty player, MacLean was mostly clean. Advantage Labine.
-Overall, the lines are about a wash.

Second Lines

-Gallant vs. Kozlov. Gallant brings much, much more toughness and grit while being responsible in his own end. Kozlov was better in his own end, but was not tough at all. Gallant is also superior offensively. Advantage Gerard Gallant.
-Gardner vs. Ronning. Both are playmaking centers, both bring two-way play. Ronning brings more longevity to the table, and Gardner had a better peak. Slight advantage to Gardner.
-Hergesheimer vs. Trojak. Trojak was the ultimate team player that any team would love to have. He was seen as the first superstar of Slovakia, and could do everything. Hergesheimer was an offensive specialist who would work in front of the net, but didn't really do much else besides that. The problem with Trojak is there is no record of his offensive abilities, but he brings way more intangibles to the table compared to Wally. Slight advantage Wally.
-Overall, the Philadelphia 2nd line brings more grit, toughness, and intangibles to the table. We plan on using this to wear down their 2nd line.

Third Lines

-Grosso vs. Jirik. Jirik doesn't seem to be that suited for a 3rd line. I see only one quote that says he was a two-way player from Bowman. If he was a good two-way player, there would certainly be more quotes about his defensive abilities. Grosso could play up and down the lineup, finishing 3rd in the league in points when he was put on a scoring line. Known for being clutch in pressure situations in the playoffs, this is no contest. Advantage Don Grosso.
-Dahlstrom vs. Hampson. Hampson was more noted for his defensive play, and being a hard worker. Dahlstrom won the Calder Trophy, was known for being a good playmaker, and was a good two-way player. Hampson had 3 top 15s in assists, and Dahlstrom had one top 10. Advantage Hampson
-Lever vs. MacMillan. Two very similar players, bring a lot of versatility and offensive upside as well. Don Lever has an all-star selection to his credit, and MacMillan doesn't. Lever is a more established defensive player and there are a few quotes about MacMillan being a defensive player. Lever brings more intangibles to the table. Advantage Lever.
-Overall, I don't think Regina's 3rd line will be able to function as a traditional 3rd line. Hampson was good defensively, but none were elite. Philadelphia's 3rd line will be able to function better as a unit to shut down opponents, as well as being able to put pucks in the net when need be. Advantage Philadelphia

Fourth Lines

-Granato vs. Boudrias. This is a tough comparison. Boudrias brings a little more of an offensive game, but Granato was no slouch himself. Both were very tough on the forecheck and brought grit to a team, but Granato was tougher, look at the PIM. Granato was a tremendous leader and team player. Philadelphia's 4th line serves as a pest line as well as functioning as a 2nd shutdown line. Wash.
-Arnott vs. Boschman. Offensively, Arnott's your guy. Defensively, Boschman's your guy. Boschman also brings more toughness and tenacity to the table. He was no slouch offensively, putting up 6 40 point seasons while being relegated to checking duty. For what our 4th line is supposed to do, Boschman is better because he brings a better defensive ability and toughness.
-Fairbairn vs. Warwick. Warwick was nowhere near the defensive player Fairbairn was. They both provide physicality and tenacity, but Fairbairn's defensive abilities trump Warwick's. Warwick is better offensively, but in a 4th line role what good is this offense going to do? For what Philadelphia is going for, another tough two-way player is the way to go. Advantage Fairbairn.
-Overall, Philadelphia's 3rd and 4th lines are supposed to serve as defensive, checking, shut down lines. In this right, they are better than Regina's, bringing more physicality to the table at the same time.

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:08 PM
  #80
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-Karakas vs. Edwards

This is pretty much a wash in the regular season. In the playoffs is where Karakas separates himself from Edwards. He miraculously led the Blackhawks to two SCF, winning one of them. Here are some quotes about Karakas in the playoffs:

Quote:
The Blackhawks didn't look like they'd last long in the 1938 playoffs, but not only did they, but they shocked the experts by beating the powerful Leafs to win the Stanley Cup. Karakas played very well in the semifinal and final, even though Karakas was forced out of the first two games of the finals with a broken toe.
Quote:
Allowing only 15 goals all post-season, Karakas was very sharp, giving the Hawks their last Cup until 1961 when a new generation took over.
Quote:
In the playoffs he unthinkably led another Cinderella Hawks team into the Stanley Cup finals.
Meanwhile, Edwards never made it past 2 rounds in the playoffs. Also, once Edwards hit the age of just 27, he began to put up pretty pedestrian numbers, like 32nd, 36th, 41st, 54th in GAA and was also 33rd, 41st, and 46th in SV% when they began recording it. That is not an MLD level performance.

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07-21-2010, 04:15 PM
  #81
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Reasons why the Philadelphia Blazers will beat the Regina Capitals

-Toughness throughout our entire lineup, especially the top 6 and top 4 D will wear down Regina's smaller forwards over the course of a longer series.
-We have clutch playoff performers like Cliff Ronning, Don Grosso, Cully Dahlstrom, and Mike Karakas on our side.
-Regina's 3rd and 4th lines aren't as good defensively as our 3rd and 4th lines, and we will be able to stick both lines out in a shutdown role in order to take out the effectiveness of Regina's top 6.
-Regina lacks a good shutdown line, and Herb Jordan was not known for his ability to play defense, and Gardner was a decent two-way player whereas Lacroix and Ronning were both good defensively.
-An advantage in goaltending, where Mike Karakas was known for stepping up to a whole other level in the playoffs, while Don Edwards had essentially zero success in the playoffs.
-We will exploit matchups in order to get Mike Milbury or Gilles Marotte all over Herb Jordan the entire series.
-Our top 4 D will be able to decimate Regina's top 6 because of a size difference. Besides Labine and Gardiner, they lack tougness.

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07-21-2010, 04:37 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
(Drury) is also out of position, normally being a C.
Drury has played all three positions and his scouting reports substantiate that he can play an position and any role.

Quote:
Gallant is also superior offensively. Advantage Gerard Gallant.
ROFL!

Absolutely unsubstantiated nonsense. Facts and figures that directly contradict this have already been provided. Gallant can't touch Kozlov offensively.

Quote:
Trojak was the ultimate team player that any team would love to have. He was seen as the first superstar of Slovakia, and could do everything. Hergesheimer was an offensive specialist who would work in front of the net, but didn't really do much else besides that. The problem with Trojak is there is no record of his offensive abilities, but he brings way more intangibles to the table compared to Wally. Slight advantage Wally.
It really doesn't matter how Trojak played, because he was a role player in 1930s Czechoslovakia, when the best (by far) Czechoslovakian player was not even as good as Canadian amateurs. He is a massive weak link, a player who could lose a team a series on his own. That you finished 6th with him in the lineup is a credit to the balance in the rest of the lineup.


Quote:
-Grosso vs. Jirik. Jirik doesn't seem to be that suited for a 3rd line. I see only one quote that says he was a two-way player from Bowman. If he was a good two-way player, there would certainly be more quotes about his defensive abilities. Grosso could play up and down the lineup, finishing 3rd in the league in points when he was put on a scoring line. Known for being clutch in pressure situations in the playoffs, this is no contest. Advantage Don Grosso.
While I do usually subscribe to the notion that your 3rd line should be a defensive line, what I do not subscribe to is that you should have three identical defensive players on your 3rd line. MacMillan and Hampson provide more than enough on their own, and they don't need a 3rd defensive player. Jirik provides an element that they don't - goalscoring and extreme toughness, as well as big game mentality (his stats in international games are just as good as Golonka's, and Golonka is a great 2nd line center here)

My thoughts on Grosso were well-laid out a few posts ago and I made a much more convincing case than you did. Not even top-20 in scoring in any of the three war-weakened seasons? No thanks!

Quote:
-Lever vs. MacMillan. Two very similar players, bring a lot of versatility and offensive upside as well. Don Lever has an all-star selection to his credit, and MacMillan doesn't. Lever is a more established defensive player and there are a few quotes about MacMillan being a defensive player. Lever brings more intangibles to the table. Advantage Lever.
You're free to make assessments as you see fit, but I did a very extensive comparison of MacMillan and Lever, much more extensive than this, and my conclusion is that MacMillan was slightly better. Clearly you disagree with that final judgment, so what aspects of that comparison do you disagree with?

Quote:
-Arnott vs. Boschman. Offensively, Arnott's your guy. Defensively, Boschman's your guy.
Except Boschman's defensive stats are absolutely brutal.

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:42 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
-Karakas vs. Edwards

This is pretty much a wash in the regular season. In the playoffs is where Karakas separates himself from Edwards. He miraculously led the Blackhawks to two SCF, winning one of them. Here are some quotes about Karakas in the playoffs:







Meanwhile, Edwards never made it past 2 rounds in the playoffs. Also, once Edwards hit the age of just 27, he began to put up pretty pedestrian numbers, like 32nd, 36th, 41st, 54th in GAA and was also 33rd, 41st, and 46th in SV% when they began recording it. That is not an MLD level performance.
Let's not get too excited about Karakas' second trip to the finals, considering it came in 1944, a war-weakened year. His second team all-star nod came in 1945, the worst war year of all.

Karakas was a good goalie but he doesn't match up to Edwards. Edwards was a 2nd team all-star twice against much stronger competiton than Karakas faced for his one 2nd team all-star in a smaller league.

I realize Edwards doesn't have a great playoff record, which is why he is backed up by someone who does - Billy Nicholson won two Stanley Cups and has an incredible playoff GAA that is significantly lower than his regular season GAA. Statistically he stands up to his HHOF contemporaries, including Riley Hern, who some think is the best goalie in the MLD. Should Edwards falter, Nicholson is more than capable of stepping in. But Edwards won't falter, not against this team.

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07-21-2010, 04:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
-We have clutch playoff performers like Cliff Ronning, Don Grosso, Cully Dahlstrom, and Mike Karakas on our side.
The only player I would call "clutch" from that list is Don Grosso. Where do you get off saying Cully Dahlstrom is clutch, for example?

The four names I could throw out there - Kozlov, Drury, Arnott, Jirik - are just as clutch or more. No one gets to claim a "clutch" advantage, sorry.

Quote:
-Regina's 3rd and 4th lines aren't as good defensively as our 3rd and 4th lines, and we will be able to stick both lines out in a shutdown role in order to take out the effectiveness of Regina's top 6.
You can say this, but the facts don't bear this out.

The best defensive forwards in the bottom-six are Hampson, MacMillan, Lever, Boudrias, and Fairbairn, in that order. The worst are Warwick, Granato, Jirik, and Boschman, in that order. In the middle you have Grosso, Arnott, and Dahlstrom. With three of the four best defensive forwards in our bottom six, we'll be fine.

Quote:
-Regina lacks a good shutdown line,
Wrong, difference also being that ours will generate offense.

Quote:
-We will exploit matchups in order to get Mike Milbury or Gilles Marotte all over Herb Jordan the entire series.
Oh no, not Gilles Marotte, who you couldn't prove was any better than any of our defensemen!

How do you figure you'll get matchups you want? You don't have home ice in the series and you're facing a highly superior coach and tactician. You probably won't even get the matchups you want at home, to be honest.

Quote:
-Our top 4 D will be able to decimate Regina's top 6 because of a size difference. Besides Labine and Gardiner, they lack tougness.
Yet, as a whole, our defensemen are 2.5 inches taller than your forwards compared to a 2 inch advantage in your defense over our forwards. You can't claim an advantage where there isn't one, sorry.

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07-21-2010, 05:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Drury has played all three positions and his scouting reports substantiate that he can play an position and any role.
True. He really didn't become a center until he left Colorado. In Colorado, he was almost always a winger

Billy's assertion that Drury pretty much never played on a top line is correct (unless he played on the top line in Calgary; I honestly don't remember much about Drury in Calgary other than the fact that he was a disappointment).


Quote:


It really doesn't matter how Trojak played, because he was a role player in 1930s Czechoslovakia, when the best (by far) Czechoslovakian player was not even as good as Canadian amateurs. He is a massive weak link, a player who could lose a team a series on his own. That you finished 6th with him in the lineup is a credit to the balance in the rest of the lineup.
I wouldn't say that Malecek (the best Czech player by far) wasn't as good as Canadian amateurs. Canadian amateurs outscored Malecek by a lot, but they were playing on a (relatively) stacked team, whereas Malecek was by far the best Czech player as you said, something backed up by the stats in all years but one.

Of course, the fact that Trojak was one of those guys far behind Malecek doesn't make him look like a good fit for a scoring line in this.


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07-21-2010, 05:13 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
True. He really didn't become a center until he left Colorado. In Colorado, he was almost always a winger

Billy's assertion that Drury pretty much never played on a top line is correct (unless he played on the top line in Calgary; I honestly don't remember much about Drury in Calgary other than the fact that he was a disappointment).
From what I gather, Craig Conroy played on the top line in Calgary that year, averaging 1:14 more each game.

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07-21-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The only player I would call "clutch" from that list is Don Grosso. Where do you get off saying Cully Dahlstrom is clutch, for example?
Quote:
Cully himself played a vital role in the playoffs as he scored some key goals. In game two of the semi-final against NY Americans Cully scored the only goal of the game, an overtime goal after 33:01 of OT to tie the series which saved Chicago from elimination. He also scored the first goal against Toronto in the 4-1 win that brought the Stanley Cup to Chicago.
How is Karakas not clutch in the playoffs? See quotes.

Quote:
The four names I could throw out there - Kozlov, Drury, Arnott, Jirik - are just as clutch or more. No one gets to claim a "clutch" advantage, sorry.
What have Kozlov, Arnott, or Jirik done to make them clutch? They have some above average playoff numbers, but besides that I'm not seeing much.

Quote:
The best defensive forwards in the bottom-six are Hampson, MacMillan, Lever, Boudrias, and Fairbairn, in that order. The worst are Warwick, Granato, Jirik, and Boschman, in that order. In the middle you have Grosso, Arnott, and Dahlstrom. With three of the four best defensive forwards in our bottom six, we'll be fine.
Quote:
he became a mainstay as a solid, two-way performer who consistently put points on the board and covered his own end of the rink with tenacity.
-In reference to Boschman.


Quote:
Wrong, difference also being that ours will generate offense.
You lack a concrete shutdown line.
Quote:
How do you figure you'll get matchups you want? You don't have home ice in the series and you're facing a highly superior coach and tactician. You probably won't even get the matchups you want at home, to be honest.
Tikhonov is a superior coach no doubt, but enlighten me as to how we won't get the matchup we want when we have the last line change.

Quote:
Yet, as a whole, our defensemen are 2.5 inches taller than your forwards compared to a 2 inch advantage in your defense over our forwards. You can't claim an advantage where there isn't one, sorry.
I'm claiming an advantage in physicality, not size. I meant to write physicality there, not size.

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07-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  #88
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I'll point to the All-Star rankings where Marotte was picked as a 7th defenseman and Grosso was picked as the 3rd line LW over anybody that you've got and rest my case in regards to those two.

Also, I've decided to make a change in RW:

Scanlan-Lacroix-MacLean
Gallant-Ronning-Lever
Grosso-Dahlstrom-Fairbairn
Granato-Boschman-Trojak

My lineup should be able to take this change in stride. Lever is able to play on a scoring line, known for being effective on the power play and was also a very consistent player. He will be able to fill this role well, serving the same function as Chris Drury with Regina, providing a very good defensive presence, who in conjunction with Cliff Ronning will make my 2nd line better defensively than Regina's. On the 3rd line, Bill Fairbairn will provide more grit and physicality to my 3rd line that features two other good defensive players. My 4th line just got even better. Good luck being able to maintain possession of the puck with these 3 guys on the ice hounding you.

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07-21-2010, 05:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
How is Karakas not clutch in the playoffs? See quotes.
That's not really that clutch. His playoff numbers aren't even lower than his regular season numbers, and playoff scoring dropped a ton in that era.

Quote:
What have Kozlov, Arnott, or Jirik done to make them clutch? They have some above average playoff numbers, but besides that I'm not seeing much.
Jirik had 1.08 PPG in major international tournaments, compared to 1.13 for Golonka. He was huge there.

Arnott scored a cup-winning OT goal...

If you don't know that Kozlov is clutch, you better read his bio.


Quote:
-In reference to Boschman.
Except the stats completely contradict that. His adjusted +/- is one of the worst of all-time. With him out on the ice, his teams fared significantly worse than with him on the bench.

Quote:
You lack a concrete shutdown line.
Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true... what should I have strove to do? Fill my line with "defensive specialists", guys who couldn't even crack the top-20 in war years, and guys with one lonely top-10 in assists and nothing else? Just so that there's no doubt that they'll focus on defense? No thanks.

Quote:
Tikhonov is a superior coach no doubt, but enlighten me as to how we won't get the matchup we want when we have the last line change.
Better coaches juggle lines better. The better tactician will change up his patterns and double shift lines occasionally just to mess with the lesser coach's patterns. There's no doubt that Tikhonov will badly outcoach Skinner (even though I think Skinner is about 5th/6th in the MLD)

Not that it worries me if the 3rd line gets out against my 1st - your 3rd line doesn't scare me, nor should it.

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07-21-2010, 05:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That's not really that clutch. His playoff numbers aren't even lower than his regular season numbers, and playoff scoring dropped a ton in that era.
He carried two pretty crappy Hawks teams to the SCF, winning one Cup.

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Jirik had 1.08 PPG in major international tournaments, compared to 1.13 for Golonka. He was huge there.
Point taken, I was not aware of this.
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Arnott scored a cup-winning OT goal...
I wasn't aware one goal made a player clutch. By this logic, Max Talbot is clutch.

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If you don't know that Kozlov is clutch, you better read his bio.
His playoff resume is good.

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Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true... what should I have strove to do? Fill my line with "defensive specialists", guys who couldn't even crack the top-20 in war years, and guys with one lonely top-10 in assists and nothing else? Just so that there's no doubt that they'll focus on defense? No thanks.
Depends on what you're going for in a 3rd line. My goal? Make it as impossible as possible (sounds weird, I know) for the other team to score. We obviously have conflicting opinions about what a 3rd line should be about and I don't see either of us changing our minds.


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Better coaches juggle lines better. The better tactician will change up his patterns and double shift lines occasionally just to mess with the lesser coach's patterns. There's no doubt that Tikhonov will badly outcoach Skinner (even though I think Skinner is about 5th/6th in the MLD)
I still have last change. Explain to me how double shifting and changing patterns will negate last change.

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07-21-2010, 05:47 PM
  #91
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post

Better coaches juggle lines better. The better tactician will change up his patterns and double shift lines occasionally just to mess with the lesser coach's patterns. There's no doubt that Tikhonov will badly outcoach Skinner (even though I think Skinner is about 5th/6th in the MLD)
Wasn't Tikhnonov famous for mechanically rolling 4 lines, no matter the situation?

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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post

I wasn't aware one goal made a player clutch. By this logic, Max Talbot is clutch.
If there were an award for MVP of the finals series, there is a good chance Arnott would have won it in 2000. He was the most dominant non-goalie in the finals that year, as really the only Devils forward on a scoring line that the tough Dallas defense couldn't physically contain. In fact, he was probably the 2nd most valuable Devil over the course of the 2000 playoffs.

Granted, it is just one year. But I think Dahlstrom's "clutchness" is based entirely on one excellent playoffs too, right?

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07-21-2010, 05:47 PM
  #92
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I'll point to the All-Star rankings where Marotte was picked as a 7th defenseman
MLD canon, such a wonderful thing.

Marotte's greatness has not been substantiated - at all.

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and Grosso was picked as the 3rd line LW over anybody that you've got and rest my case in regards to those two.
That was my bad, I voted for him and really shouldn't have. I thought he actually had 3-4 top-20s. There are more than enough 3rd/4th line guys who can provide offense instead of a dude who played all through the war and couldn't make the top-20.

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Also, I've decided to make a change in RW:

Scanlan-Lacroix-MacLean
Gallant-Ronning-Lever
Grosso-Dahlstrom-Fairbairn
Granato-Boschman-Trojak

My lineup should be able to take this change in stride. Lever is able to play on a scoring line, known for being effective on the power play and was also a very consistent player. He will be able to fill this role well, serving the same function as Chris Drury with Regina, providing a very good defensive presence, who in conjunction with Cliff Ronning will make my 2nd line better defensively than Regina's.
So where does this "Cliff Ronning as a defensive presence" mindset suddenly come from? The guy was average, at best.

Your 2nd line is better now, because anyone is better than Trojak. But your 3rd line just lost its best defensive presence. What was that about Regina not having a shutdown line? And Drury is miles ahead of Lever offensively, he can at least play on a top line. Lever is a glue guy at best, and that's all Gallant is, too.

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On the 3rd line, Bill Fairbairn will provide more grit and physicality to my 3rd line that features two other good defensive players.
But your 3rd line just lost its best offensive and defensive player. Don't act like replacing Lever with Fairbairn makes it better!

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My 4th line just got even better. Good luck being able to maintain possession of the puck with these 3 guys on the ice hounding you.
Arnott, having trouble maintaining possession of the puck? That's a laugh and three quarters. I wouldn't worry about Trojak hounding these guys any more than I'd worry about myself hounding them. He won't even keep up!

You lost Fairbairn and gained Trojak... and your 4th line got better? Ha.

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07-21-2010, 05:53 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
He carried two pretty crappy Hawks teams to the SCF, winning one Cup.
Going to the finals and "carrying" a team are two different things.

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I wasn't aware one goal made a player clutch. By this logic, Max Talbot is clutch.
TDMM addressed this.

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His playoff resume is good.
It's better than good. read about all his clutch game winners.


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Depends on what you're going for in a 3rd line. My goal? Make it as impossible as possible (sounds weird, I know) for the other team to score. We obviously have conflicting opinions about what a 3rd line should be about and I don't see either of us changing our minds.
Great, I agree a 3rd line should do that too. But there's no need to take weak offensive players when there are still guys who can do both. My guys can. Yours are lacking offensively.

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I still have last change. Explain to me how double shifting and changing patterns will negate last change.
Well, if what you're saying is that Skinner's just going to sit there and wait for the 1st line to come on the ice and switch to the 3rd line, that's a recipe for disaster. There is also changing on the fly, both on and off.

Supposing we don't want your 3rd on our 1st (which is not the case), Tikhonov could send out the 1st and simply take them off at an opportune time, then your 3rd is stuck on for a shift against our 4th, then put the 1st out against someone else. That's what master tacticians do.

But really, we aren't worried about the "shutdown" abilities of guys like Grosso and Dahlstrom.

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07-21-2010, 05:54 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Wasn't Tikhnonov famous for mechanically rolling 4 lines, no matter the situation?
"mechanically", as in, robotically, without exception, to a fault? no, I don't think so.

.

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Granted, it is just one year. But I think Dahlstrom's "clutchness" is based entirely on one excellent playoffs too, right?
I wouldn't even call 3-1-4 in 10 games "excellent".


Last edited by seventieslord: 07-21-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old
07-23-2010, 01:11 PM
  #95
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Regina Capitals defeat Philidelphia Blazers in game 4 overtime.

1st Star - Herb Jordan
2nd Star - Andre Lacroix
3rd Star - Don Edwards

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07-23-2010, 03:34 PM
  #96
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Well done seventies, thanks to a hard fought series. You had me thoroughly beat. I've still got a lot to learn. One day I hopefully won't be going up against a juggernaut (TDMM and you).

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07-23-2010, 05:11 PM
  #97
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Well-fought series, Billy. I wouldn't want to face you next draft after everything you learned in your first atd and mld.

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