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Study done on the decline of QC born NHL'ers

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Old
07-23-2010, 01:47 PM
  #26
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Bitterman View Post
Judging by the growing number of Francophones who are having trouble making the NHL, and those that do playing less physical, how is there a pro-anglo bias? NHL Scouts & GMs would target players born on Mars if they felt there was better talent to give their club an edge.
It's often a pro-anglo bias 'cause in a whole lot of spheres, you go with who you know. The people in charge are in majority anglos, they want to have their own country club around them. See what the Habs are made of right now.

Seems that there's a lot of possibilities to be confronted with BPA or BCA (best coach available). And the day that a team or more teams will go and get a Q coach without the said coach being picked by Montreal first, then I'll agree that there's no pro-anglo bias, by the way, a bias I don't have ANYTHING against, since I'm bias towards Q players 'cause I follow them more than the others.

Yes, it's true. Q players, as far as numbers are concerned, is on a decline. The quality is still there a lot though. But scouting, or choosing a next coach, GM or else, are done by humans. And after the logic, the stats and all come the gut feeling, the people around you helping you choose, the people you have more confidence in, the ones who know the ones who know the ones.....

I strongly believe that Timmins has not gone more in the Q 'cause he doesn't have a lot of allies in that league. He didn't have a Westrum who asked him desperately to go for a David Fischer who would SURELY play in the NHL. It's clear where his men he has plenty of confidence in are situated. And again, it's his preregative. He's the boss. His boss agrees with his views. He agrees with his boss' views. They have a strategy and sticks by it.

Surely, if a Q guy is by far superior to the other one (see Guillaume Latendresse), they will NOT hesitate to go with him. They are not stupid. But they are humans. I don't always agree as it's my right.

But I can tell you that it's fairly easy to look at the Q and see how it's declining based on the number of Q guys that are picked on draft day. I'm pretty sure though that in this last draft, you would have added a Brunelle, Gauthier, Lachance and a whole lot more, while they might not have ended up in the NHL anyway, TONS of other players picked last june will not end up in the NHL either.....even if they are not from the Q.

Q hockey is declining. Without a single doubt. But I see a lot of people using that statement to feel good about themselves to not see that it might not refrain from other things to be happening.

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07-23-2010, 02:35 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
It's often a pro-anglo bias 'cause in a whole lot of spheres, you go with who you know. The people in charge are in majority anglos, they want to have their own country club around them. See what the Habs are made of right now.

Seems that there's a lot of possibilities to be confronted with BPA or BCA (best coach available). And the day that a team or more teams will go and get a Q coach without the said coach being picked by Montreal first, then I'll agree that there's no pro-anglo bias, by the way, a bias I don't have ANYTHING against, since I'm bias towards Q players 'cause I follow them more than the others.

Yes, it's true. Q players, as far as numbers are concerned, is on a decline. The quality is still there a lot though. But scouting, or choosing a next coach, GM or else, are done by humans. And after the logic, the stats and all come the gut feeling, the people around you helping you choose, the people you have more confidence in, the ones who know the ones who know the ones.....

I strongly believe that Timmins has not gone more in the Q 'cause he doesn't have a lot of allies in that league. He didn't have a Westrum who asked him desperately to go for a David Fischer who would SURELY play in the NHL. It's clear where his men he has plenty of confidence in are situated. And again, it's his preregative. He's the boss. His boss agrees with his views. He agrees with his boss' views. They have a strategy and sticks by it.

Surely, if a Q guy is by far superior to the other one (see Guillaume Latendresse), they will NOT hesitate to go with him. They are not stupid. But they are humans. I don't always agree as it's my right.

But I can tell you that it's fairly easy to look at the Q and see how it's declining based on the number of Q guys that are picked on draft day. I'm pretty sure though that in this last draft, you would have added a Brunelle, Gauthier, Lachance and a whole lot more, while they might not have ended up in the NHL anyway, TONS of other players picked last june will not end up in the NHL either.....even if they are not from the Q.

Q hockey is declining. Without a single doubt. But I see a lot of people using that statement to feel good about themselves to not see that it might not refrain from other things to be happening.
With all due respect, the claim of Anglo bias is BS and convenient deflection. The NHL has had no problems whatsoever drafting Europeans, especially Russians who couldn't speak a word of English so long as you had the talent to play.

As for the "quality" you still see in the Q the numbers just don't support it. The number of Quebecers drafted has remained somewhat steady but fewer are good enough to stick in the NHL. With regards to the human factor of drafting within Quebec, a pick looked over and taken much later shouldn't make any difference if they could put up the numbers.

Not sure what your suggesting with Timmins though. He's avoiding the Q because of what exactly? What of other NHL teams and scouts?

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07-23-2010, 02:40 PM
  #28
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French players used to dominate (Béliveau Richard Lafleur Bourque Lemieux Roy) and make up a much larger % of the North American players than today, so at least we know the issue isn't genetical but social. I think the idea of increased costs of playing hockey and increased single-parent families deserves some attention.

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07-23-2010, 04:43 PM
  #29
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I don't know if it's been said yet, but the birth rate is extremely low in Quebec, and has been for a little while now. A lot of our population growth has been from immigration in recent years.

I could be wrong, but I don't think families coming here from other countries are putting their children into hockey as young, or pushing them to play competitive hockey as hard as families who have been in Canada for a longer time.

I don't have any numbers to back this idea up, just something I thought my influence this. If anyone has the numbers it would help to see not only the increase in youth hockey enrollment in Quebec over X time period, but also that of the other provinces.

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07-23-2010, 05:34 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterman View Post
With all due respect, the claim of Anglo bias is BS and convenient deflection. The NHL has had no problems whatsoever drafting Europeans, especially Russians who couldn't speak a word of English so long as you had the talent to play.

As for the "quality" you still see in the Q the numbers just don't support it. The number of Quebecers drafted has remained somewhat steady but fewer are good enough to stick in the NHL. With regards to the human factor of drafting within Quebec, a pick looked over and taken much later shouldn't make any difference if they could put up the numbers.

Not sure what your suggesting with Timmins though. He's avoiding the Q because of what exactly? What of other NHL teams and scouts?
White Snake is saying it's about instinct most of the time. You either go where your strength lies(like the Red Wings and the Swedish leagues) or you go with what you know. And most of Timmins' boys are in the US. Not that he has a bias but that's what he knows the most, where probably his most trusted lieutenants are.

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07-23-2010, 05:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Same thing happened to me. I tried out for a team, (most likely just a single A team, but could be double, I forget), I was one of the first ones cut. The year before and after I did better than most of the players who made that team. Hell, the year after I was cut, 6, or 7 of those players were on my team and I either scored, or assisted on 60% of our team's goals, but still didn't make it.

There's corruption here too and it's all about who you know. It doesn't help my mom wasn't the richest person and her being a single parent too probably hurt my chances, but that **** happens in Ontario too.

Hockey is really expensive too, like others have said.
If we would count all the kids in North America that stopped playing sports because they didn't know anybody of influence we would create 5 nations. I've always hated this aspect in sport, the politics, and I stopped playing for things like this. Last year my niece was playing soccer and the parents realised that a few organizers had created a few elite teams with their kids in it. The parents felt they had to do something, and one parent who is a lawyer threaten to sue them and make noise and a few changes were made via trades and so forth. This kind of thing happens all the time in hockey too. Last year in my newphew's league they proposed a new arrangement where when it's too disproportionate between the clubs, they disband and create new teams on the spot.

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07-23-2010, 05:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
White Snake is saying it's about instinct most of the time. You either go where your strength lies(like the Red Wings and the Swedish leagues) or you go with what you know. And most of Timmins' boys are in the US. Not that he has a bias but that's what he knows the most, where probably his most trusted lieutenants are.
My personal belief is that scouts go where the talent is, wherever that is which explains the rise of the European goaltender at Quebec's expense. Is it bias because Euro goalies have been better for the last ten years?

What I found refreshing is this study contains actual numbers to discuss & debate, not personal perception being passed on as fact.

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07-23-2010, 05:54 PM
  #33
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"they go where the talent is"

Yea, I wish it was that simple.

I think they go where their instinct lead them. How do you explain why a particular organization keep drafting US defensemen more than anything else? More than anybody else? I don't want to be cynical but there's a trend. And i've been in sport long enough to realise that it's who you know. Especially in the drafting circles.

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07-23-2010, 06:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bitterman View Post
With all due respect, the claim of Anglo bias is BS and convenient deflection. The NHL has had no problems whatsoever drafting Europeans, especially Russians who couldn't speak a word of English so long as you had the talent to play.

As for the "quality" you still see in the Q the numbers just don't support it. The number of Quebecers drafted has remained somewhat steady but fewer are good enough to stick in the NHL. With regards to the human factor of drafting within Quebec, a pick looked over and taken much later shouldn't make any difference if they could put up the numbers.

Not sure what your suggesting with Timmins though. He's avoiding the Q because of what exactly? What of other NHL teams and scouts?
We are talking about pro-bias here. Detroit has plenty of confidence in their swedish scout. Everything has a feeling that whenever the guy is interested in, he'll eventually becomes a star even though it's not true. So that thinking is being pro-biased towards euro products as far as the Wings are concerned. Brian Burke and others have made it a promise to draft not a whole lot of Russians when he was in Anaheim.

So yes, euros are being picked.....at the same rate that the CHL and US are being picked? Clearly not 'cause chances are, most teams are going for North American style of hockey. Better go with the ones already playing that style than to teach to other nations to do it. Reason why Finland and Sweden aren't that forgotten 'cause you keep hearing how they are kinda playing that North American style of hockey....So yes, they are being picked. Quebecers are also being picked. So everybody is but being we are not talking about having something AGAINST a nation but mostly about having something FOR another. Not sure it has to mean the end of picking anywhere else but here.

As far as the Q is concerned, what the "numbers" are supporting is that the quantity isn't there. The numbers don't say that a Letang, Vlasic, Bergeron, Lecavalier, Latendresse etc. aren't "good". They are saying that there are not enough especially when you compare them to the rest of the CHL and other leagues.

As far as Timmins is concerned, well first, he's not "avoiding" the Q. But he doesn't have the staff in place, he doesn't have the belief in place that other Q guys might be able to make a difference. His trusted men aren't in this league. As far as other NHL teams and scouts, you do know, and it was a verified fact by Stéphane Leroux, a trusted Q journalists, that at least 12ish teams do not have 1 single Q scout while they have permanent scouts in every other league there is. So if they are not as present, even if it's to go and get THE great talent the Q might have, well if you are not present, even if they are talented, you'll go with the ones that you see a lot and might just be talented.

Especially in a situation where you are talking about draft. When talent is one part of it, but where projection, where character, where tons of other things are a factor.

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07-23-2010, 06:43 PM
  #35
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I think that the problem is related to the no hitting leagues in the QC. Anyone played a tournement outside QC when they were young? Everytime we got hosed like 8-9 to 1. They were use to hitting, maybe but still when you play full contact for the first time at 14-15 when you get in junior (major if you are really good) you are 3-4 years back in your developpement compârted to other canadians.

Quebec should follow the other provinces and allow hitting in the earlier stages. Learn to hit when everybody is small and not wait 1 or 2 years before it becomes important.
Agreed 100%. When you introduce checking, players learn to keep their heads up and this enhances development in other areas of the game at a younger age such as passing, receiving passes, timing and ability to read plays. Quebec born players are behind other Canadian kids in these aspects at a critical age. Skills development should always be the #1 priority for kids but 14-15 is too late of an age to introduce checking. And let's not forget that checking and physical play are very important parts of hockey.

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07-23-2010, 06:51 PM
  #36
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The problem is to develop the young players effectively. Hockey-Quebec get all the blame there and on purpose. They need to fix this ASAP, because if they fix it now we will start to see the results in like 5-10 years...

Need competent coaches who teach the young players very well, we need to break the Hockey-Quebec country club as well, involve the retired NHL players more in the development system...

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07-23-2010, 06:51 PM
  #37
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I've always wondered why there wasn't any big physical D coming out of the Q. I mean are Ontarians that bigger genetically? There's as much tall fat ass adults in the Q. Find them when they are young, make them work out and let them play hockey.

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07-23-2010, 11:00 PM
  #38
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I've always wondered why there wasn't any big physical D coming out of the Q. I mean are Ontarians that bigger genetically? There's as much tall fat ass adults in the Q. Find them when they are young, make them work out and let them play hockey.
Gormley is pretty big.

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07-23-2010, 11:14 PM
  #39
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Personally, I see an overall drop off of participation in all sports, not just hockey regardless of where you are. Being able to afford sports equipment and participating in leagues is obviously a contributing factor, but children of today aren't playing sports anymore. They've planted their butts down in front of the boob tube and the internet while stuffing their faces with crap....unfortunately, parents today aren't doing too much to discourage it either....

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07-24-2010, 12:41 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As far as the Q is concerned, what the "numbers" are supporting is that the quantity isn't there. The numbers don't say that a Letang, Vlasic, Bergeron, Lecavalier, Latendresse etc. aren't "good". They are saying that there are not enough especially when you compare them to the rest of the CHL and other leagues.
As you know, Vinny was drafted in 1998 so he doesn't fit in with the group you listed.

What the numbers show is that with the number of Quebecers drafted is about same over the last 20 years, even with 9 new teams in the NHL and that the quantity of quality has dropped. That to me appears to mean a smaller talent pool of elite Quebec athletes capable of making the NHL.

Quote:
As far as Timmins is concerned, well first, he's not "avoiding" the Q. But he doesn't have the staff in place, he doesn't have the belief in place that other Q guys might be able to make a difference. His trusted men aren't in this league. As far as other NHL teams and scouts, you do know, and it was a verified fact by Stéphane Leroux, a trusted Q journalists, that at least 12ish teams do not have 1 single Q scout while they have permanent scouts in every other league there is. So if they are not as present, even if it's to go and get THE great talent the Q might have, well if you are not present, even if they are talented, you'll go with the ones that you see a lot and might just be talented.
If there were quality players still available after 7 rounds, the Habs or other teams would have a field day signing them as UFAs. Problem is, that's not happening. Scouts go where the talent is and if a team is doing well, like Detroit was in Sweden, it's not long before other teams send their scouts as well.

If 12 teams supposedly aren't scouting the Q, you'd not only expect the number of Quebecers drafted to drop but the teams who are should be getting better players. Again, the numbers show neither is happening.

Personally I believe Quebec still has quality kids, just that fewer of the good ones are picking hockey as their sport to attempt a living at. That's just a gut feeling so if anyone's seen any stats of youth sport recruitment within Quebec, I think they'd be useful to see.

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07-24-2010, 12:57 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MacKmtl View Post
I don't know if it's been said yet, but the birth rate is extremely low in Quebec, and has been for a little while now. A lot of our population growth has been from immigration in recent years.

I could be wrong, but I don't think families coming here from other countries are putting their children into hockey as young, or pushing them to play competitive hockey as hard as families who have been in Canada for a longer time.

I don't have any numbers to back this idea up, just something I thought my influence this. If anyone has the numbers it would help to see not only the increase in youth hockey enrollment in Quebec over X time period, but also that of the other provinces.
This is a part of the reason as well. I don't want to sound racist but we have been getting our population mostly from countries that are poor or have weather that is unfriendly to hockey. If these immigrants do decide to stay here in Quebec, it is really up to their kids to put their own offspring's in hockey. So figure another 20-25 years for that generation to start sprouting.

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07-24-2010, 03:52 AM
  #42
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This is a part of the reason as well. I don't want to sound racist but we have been getting our population mostly from countries that are poor or have weather that is unfriendly to hockey. If these immigrants do decide to stay here in Quebec, it is really up to their kids to put their own offspring's in hockey. So figure another 20-25 years for that generation to start sprouting.
Wouldn't recent immigration impact hockey throughout North America?

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07-24-2010, 07:36 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
It's often a pro-anglo bias 'cause in a whole lot of spheres, you go with who you know. The people in charge are in majority anglos, they want to have their own country club around them. See what the Habs are made of right now.
If there's a pro anglo bias, Canadian content in the NHL would not have dropped from 98% to 60% in the last 30 years.

As for your last staement. Yes, let's see what the Habs are made of:

The last 20 years:

The Presidents
Corey
Boivin

The GMs
Gauthier
Gainey
A. Savard
Houle
S. Savard

The coaches
Martin
Carbo
Julien
Therrien
Vigneault
Tremblay
Demers
Burns

The only place you may have an argument is with Timmins but percentage wise he has drafted more Q players than Andre Savard did before him. Timmins has drafted 16 Francos/Q players in 8 years (From 03 to 10). Andre Savard drafted 4 in 3 years (From 00 to 02).

When the presidents, GMs and coaches have been predominately French Canadians how can you make that ridiculous staement that there's a country club bias favoring anglos? When in the last 20 years the only glaring anglo is Timmins and he has a higher draft rate than the head scout before him - a franco, I really think you need to stop and rethink your statement.

If anglos will pick only anglos where are these anglos in charge of the Habs?

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07-24-2010, 09:29 AM
  #44
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they've been doing a good job at helping them progress. They help them be stronger on the body(more than anything that was teached to us when we were kids). The training is about half the time and then the kids get to play hockey for the rest.

(...)

Maybe there's just not enough kids playing hockey? Maybe because of the cost or other reasons.
I quit hockey as a kid when it got "serious" with training and all that jazz. I just wanted to play hockey.

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07-24-2010, 09:35 AM
  #45
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French players used to dominate (Béliveau Richard Lafleur Bourque Lemieux Roy) and make up a much larger % of the North American players than today, so at least we know the issue isn't genetical but social. I think the idea of increased costs of playing hockey and increased single-parent families deserves some attention.
Right !

+ the fact that the best athletes are in other sports like speed skating, diving, skiing and more and more in football.

The hockey minor system is all screwed up too.

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07-24-2010, 10:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bitterman View Post
As you know, Vinny was drafted in 1998 so he doesn't fit in with the group you listed.

What the numbers show is that with the number of Quebecers drafted is about same over the last 20 years, even with 9 new teams in the NHL and that the quantity of quality has dropped. That to me appears to mean a smaller talent pool of elite Quebec athletes capable of making the NHL.



If there were quality players still available after 7 rounds, the Habs or other teams would have a field day signing them as UFAs. Problem is, that's not happening. Scouts go where the talent is and if a team is doing well, like Detroit was in Sweden, it's not long before other teams send their scouts as well.

If 12 teams supposedly aren't scouting the Q, you'd not only expect the number of Quebecers drafted to drop but the teams who are should be getting better players. Again, the numbers show neither is happening.

Personally I believe Quebec still has quality kids, just that fewer of the good ones are picking hockey as their sport to attempt a living at. That's just a gut feeling so if anyone's seen any stats of youth sport recruitment within Quebec, I think they'd be useful to see.
Are you saying that athletically talented youths in Québec are choosing other professional sports as their goal instead of hockey? Which other professional sports do you have in mind? The year-round weather in Québec isn't as favorable as it is in many states in the US, so it's unlikely that we will see many from PQ in MLB or the NFL. On the other hand, the Québec winters are long and outdoor ice is generally available free to anyone who owns a pair of skates. Therefore, most kids learn to skate at a very early age. Of course, organized hockey at the youth level is expensive, so the less talented (as well as some of the less affluent) kids will drop out.

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07-24-2010, 10:57 AM
  #47
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
If there's a pro anglo bias, Canadian content in the NHL would not have dropped from 98% to 60% in the last 30 years.

As for your last staement. Yes, let's see what the Habs are made of:

The last 20 years:

The Presidents
Corey
Boivin

The GMs
Gauthier
Gainey
A. Savard
Houle
S. Savard

The coaches
Martin
Carbo
Julien
Therrien
Vigneault
Tremblay
Demers
Burns

The only place you may have an argument is with Timmins but percentage wise he has drafted more Q players than Andre Savard did before him. Timmins has drafted 16 Francos/Q players in 8 years (From 03 to 10). Andre Savard drafted 4 in 3 years (From 00 to 02).

When the presidents, GMs and coaches have been predominately French Canadians how can you make that ridiculous staement that there's a country club bias favoring anglos? When in the last 20 years the only glaring anglo is Timmins and he has a higher draft rate than the head scout before him - a franco, I really think you need to stop and rethink your statement.

If anglos will pick only anglos where are these anglos in charge of the Habs?
Of course it dropped.....you went from no euros at all to how many countries in the NHL again? It will drop but it will still be predominant. And again....why not? Why do people have always that instinct to be so defensive when they are called being pro something? If I'd be calling them or you anti-Q, well then go ahead, fire away and be defensive? But how is pro something bad? It's not bad but it is what it is which means that while you're pro something, you can't have enough room for a whole lot of other things.

As far as the "ridiculous statement" I made, well I am talking about the PRESENT. And the present is Timmins in charge. Now I did say....HE'S NOT AVOIDING Q PLAYERS. He does draft them. Not sure how I can be more clear. But you give me stats about the Q, I'll give you some other stats US vs Q in the past (note, I am talking about the Q, french player or not, Leblanc fits in the US category but if you want to fit him in the Q, do it)

In the last 5 years. Timmins has drafted 13 players coming from the US program. Compared to 4 Q players. He's not avoiding Q players. He's preferring US players. How's that not a fact? He's not ANTI-Q, he's pro-US, how's that not a fact? He said it HIMSELF that a big reason he's going there it's because he believes in the US system and the "4 years of development" is a big factor (which to me is bogus but that's another topic). From his own words. How's that not part of being Pro-something?

I love how we are using 2003 to fit whatever portrait we want Timmins to be in. There's still debate as to whether first freakin pick Kostitsyn is indeed Timmins or Savard's call. I believe it's Timmins but you'll have the Timmins cheerleaders saying that it has to be Savard. Something is sure though. We picked 4 Q guys that year. So it does help Timmins case as far as quantity is concerned....though, and it was not Savard biggest year...., you have to be pretty naive that those 4 guys are indeed coming from Timmins recommendations. Yet, we won't know it until we really know how it was done and since nobody from that organization talks, Habs becoming some kind of Opus Dei lately...., we won't know it either.

So I'm pretty sure that it's easier to build a strong percentage when you actually have more time to build one.

Again, when you work, you want to be amongst people you trust. See what the Habs are doing recently and you'll figure out that the country club as a whole lot of Sens favor in it. Gauthier, Timmins, Jay, Martin, Pearn, Groulx, Cunneyworth. At least, Gauthier hired Carrière which is somewhat out of his comfort zone which is nice to see. And for the record, I hated the country club that Corey decided to go for when Houle, Tremblay and Cournoyer were appointed. A country club is a country club, no matter what language you speak. But when this happens, it's is possible that "talent" might come 2nd over people you know.

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07-24-2010, 11:43 AM
  #48
TBLHoser
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Okay...I'm just going to say it and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone....It doesn't matter whether you're french or english....families today have 2 parents working and they can't afford to have a big family so they stop at around 2. Back in the 60s to the 80s the normal family would have a minimum of 4. That was Canada back then. Thanks to Mr. Mulroney and his open immigration policy, Canadians are being outnumbered and we all see what's happening but nobody wants to say anything in fear of offending people. Fact is, there's not enough kids playing hockey seriously like the old days and the immigrants never had hockey as part of their culture so the interest may not be totally there - yet.

The bottom line is the hockey community in Canada is getting smaller each decade as the older generations die off and will continue to do so. Face it....Canadian participation in professional hockey has been eroding over the years and unless something is done, foreign players may eventually dominate the NHL....

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07-24-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Are you saying that athletically talented youths in Québec are choosing other professional sports as their goal instead of hockey? Which other professional sports do you have in mind? The year-round weather in Québec isn't as favorable as it is in many states in the US, so it's unlikely that we will see many from PQ in MLB or the NFL. On the other hand, the Québec winters are long and outdoor ice is generally available free to anyone who owns a pair of skates. Therefore, most kids learn to skate at a very early age. Of course, organized hockey at the youth level is expensive, so the less talented (as well as some of the less affluent) kids will drop out.
It would appear that way, which is why I'd be interested in reading some articles to see if it's actually happening. Soccer, short-track, snowboarding, moguls, golf and football are all more popular today than say, 20-30 years ago though I'm unsure about baseball.

I'm just not prepared to buy into the belief that cost, immigration, drafting bias, etc are legitimate issues within Quebec. The number of kids playing hockey appears to be at least stable, all of North America has been dealing with non-Europeans being the majority of new immigrants since the 1970s, if not before and a pro-anglo bias against Quebecers is based on personal belief and emotions, nothing factual. Just the sort of thing people use for pot-stirring the public.

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07-24-2010, 12:38 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
Okay...I'm just going to say it and I apologize in advance if I offend anyone....It doesn't matter whether you're french or english....families today have 2 parents working and they can't afford to have a big family so they stop at around 2. Back in the 60s to the 80s the normal family would have a minimum of 4. That was Canada back then. Thanks to Mr. Mulroney and his open immigration policy, Canadians are being outnumbered and we all see what's happening but nobody wants to say anything in fear of offending people. Fact is, there's not enough kids playing hockey seriously like the old days and the immigrants never had hockey as part of their culture so the interest may not be totally there - yet.

The bottom line is the hockey community in Canada is getting smaller each decade as the older generations die off and will continue to do so. Face it....Canadian participation in professional hockey has been eroding over the years and unless something is done, foreign players may eventually dominate the NHL....
Do you feel the same thing is happening in the US, where hockey roots don't run as deep?

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