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Why the habs keep drafting from USHL?

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Old
07-25-2010, 01:46 PM
  #26
shakenbake7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haberdashery View Post
Tinordi did play in the USHL - but he also played against top 17-year-old talent in various tourneys as part of the USNTDP...I'd hardly consider him strictly a product of th USHL. Same goes for Leblanc..the majority of his hockey development took place in Quebec, not the USHL....pretty tough to thus "consider" him to be a "product" of the USHL.

I think one of the reasons Trevor and his staff ends up going the USHL or American route is because players aren't scouted as much down there as they are in the CHL - he figures he might be able to find more diamonds in the rough. You're not going to pull too many surprises drafting a CHL player in the first round... the majority of head scouts and crossover scouts in the NHL work out of Canada..and is where the majority of scouting is done each season....thus it should be easier to find hidden gems in the US.

It's still way to early to judge most if his USHL selections - but Quailer might be a good example of that...wasn't hyped much in his draft year, and wasn't scouted all that much, but Trevor and his staff saw the raw potential and picked what might turn out to be a steal in the mid rounds given his physical abilities.

I also think Trevor relies heavily on the opinions of Westrum and Karpan....they are two of his main scouts, as evidenced by neither of them being part of Gauthier's scouting purge.

Last, but not least, I think he drafted players from the USHL because he thought they were the best players available at the time.
I agree with most of this post, but I would add the fact that you have extra time before having to offer a player an SPC when they are coming from the American ranks; this is added-value to Timmins. He has gone on record as saying that drafting Americans provides extra flexibility with the 50 contract limit. Moreover, if you have two guys on your draft board with equal ratings, you will pick the American player simply because of that added flexibility.

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07-25-2010, 03:29 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Hidden gems are in Europe ( Markov,Plek, Halak ) not in the USHL.
I see - so you've never heard of any of these players then?

Eric Cole, Ryan Malone, Patrick Sharp, Tom Gilbert, Matt Greene, , Joe Pavelski, Jared Boll, Justin Abdelkader

I suppose - to you at least - they remain hidden gems.

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07-25-2010, 03:37 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakenbake7 View Post
I agree with most of this post, but I would add the fact that you have extra time before having to offer a player an SPC when they are coming from the American ranks; this is added-value to Timmins. He has gone on record as saying that drafting Americans provides extra flexibility with the 50 contract limit. Moreover, if you have two guys on your draft board with equal ratings, you will pick the American player simply because of that added flexibility.
agreed - that point had already been brought up so I didn't feel it bore repeating. :-)

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07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
  #29
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Who's Timmons?
Someone who is terrible at his job and doesn't deserve to have his name spelled properly. Just like Ganeiy.

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07-25-2010, 05:19 PM
  #30
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To piss off everyone at RDS and half the population of HF ?

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07-25-2010, 05:31 PM
  #31
Bialo Czerwoni
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haberdashery View Post
I see - so you've never heard of any of these players then?

Eric Cole, Ryan Malone, Patrick Sharp, Tom Gilbert, Matt Greene, , Joe Pavelski, Jared Boll, Justin Abdelkader

I suppose - to you at least - they remain hidden gems.
So that's what the USHL has to offer? 3 good players? 0 superstar? In about 10 years? I'd rather take a chance with something from the CHL. Pretty much everthing Timmins drafted from the US is a bust.Can't believe you actually named Abdelkader to prove a point haha.

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07-25-2010, 05:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Someone who is terrible at his job and doesn't deserve to have his name spelled properly. Just like Ganeiy.
Damn I don't usually actually lol but I just did

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07-25-2010, 06:12 PM
  #33
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ushl produces fast two way players at young ages. fast and two way is the best way to describe the montreal canadiens.

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07-25-2010, 07:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bialo Czerwoni View Post
So that's what the USHL has to offer? 3 good players? 0 superstar? In about 10 years? I'd rather take a chance with something from the CHL. Pretty much everthing Timmins drafted from the US is a bust.Can't believe you actually named Abdelkader to prove a point haha.
Boy - you like to go off topic. The players I listed were hidden gems...late picks who've become good NHLers. I thought the discussion was on Timmin's USHL picks.... but you've even made the claim more broadsweeping by calling most of his American picks busts.....let's already write off McDonagh, Kristo and Bennett too I suppose...why not?

You appear to have a tendency to judge to rush - to be calling TT's USHL alumnis like Tinordi, Leblanc, Quailer, and Patch busts already is a joke. Let's not forget that Kristo played in the USHL as well - must mean he'll be a bust too.

It never ceases to amaze me how many ill-informed people around here are already declaring Paccioretty a bust - a ridiculous claim.

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07-25-2010, 08:25 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
ushl produces fast two way players at young ages. fast and two way is the best way to describe the montreal canadiens.
I thought the whole point was to draft the BPA, regardless of his league or origin. At least that's the experts here say again and again.

Apparently the BPA at our draft position was playing in USHL for the last five years ?

If that isn't "bias" I don't know what is.

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07-25-2010, 10:08 PM
  #36
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I dont know if Zach Parise played in the USHL but he did go to NCAA. He's a legit star imo.

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Old
07-26-2010, 08:04 AM
  #37
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Hidden gems are in Europe ( Markov,Plek, Halak ) not in the USHL.
So I take it you watch a lot of USHL games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bialo Czerwoni View Post
So that's what the USHL has to offer? 3 good players? 0 superstar? In about 10 years? I'd rather take a chance with something from the CHL. Pretty much everthing Timmins drafted from the US is a bust.Can't believe you actually named Abdelkader to prove a point haha.
Again, the USHL has not been a junior league for all that long. They have had guys like Vanenk, Paul Stastny, Mike Komisarek, RJ Umberger, Keith Ballard, Erik Cole, Ryan Malone, Dan Ellis, Rostislav Klesla, David Hale, Andrew Alberts, Matt Greene, Tom Gilbert, Joe Pavelski, Matt Carle, David Backes, Blake Wheeler, TJ Oshie, Kyle Okposso, John Carlson, Pat Wiercioch, John Moore, etc...

The USHL is just a stepping stone to the NCAA, so it shouldn't be compared with the CHL.

As for every Timmins pick from the US being a bust, well I can tell this will be waste of time then.

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Old
07-26-2010, 08:40 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Someone who is terrible at his job and doesn't deserve to have his name spelled properly. Just like Ganeiy.
lol !!!

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Old
07-26-2010, 09:07 AM
  #39
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by CHfan4ever View Post
By looking at hockeydb and looking at the past draft for last ten years, iv realised that USHL havent develop any superstars in the NHL, and i keep wondering why the Habs continue to follow this way by drafting players from the USHL.

I , (yes lose about an hour), made a presentation for all USHL players that were draft per year.Iv wrote down the number of player that were draft in round 1 and round 2, and made an overall for draft 3 to 7 ( 9 for years 2005 and lower ). Starting in 2005, iv listed the number of players that were drafted in round 3-9 from OHL, WHL and europe that were considered a surprise, let say played 200 game an over . And on every year, iv list the top players of the USHL that were at least, nhl ready, able to play 40 games.

My conclusion about this is simple. Why the Habs keep trying to draft high on USHL players? There is also seem to be an increase this season with the draft, but we can all say that it was not one of the best draft, past for sure the Tyler Twins. Past have showned that majority of the USHL were draft in late rounders, and very few made it to the NHL in a regular basic. Why do the Habs instead dont try to get players of OHL and WHL who got way more chance of being NHL players?

I just dont understand the way the organisation is going by keeping of drafting high on USHL, when in the past it show that majority of the time, these player were draft in late rounders. I am not saying that Pac, Leblanc and Tinordi will be busts, but with the few player that seem to be real NHL players from USHL , well all these players are not superstars, while some teams draft players from OHL, WHA, NCAA,Europe and even LHJMQ and get way more lucky by getting at least an NHL caliber player.

Please someone explain me why we keep drafting from USHL, because i dont get it.
The Habs trend to draft more USHL players is not just a Habs one but NHL wide because the US is developing more and more quality NHLers with the evolution of the U17 and U18 programs in the US, plus the USHL has also been a great talent producer.

The only bust the Habs drafted out of the US that I can recall is Fischer and they got a 2nd rounder back for not getting him signed. Guys like Higgins Komisarek McDonagah Pacioretty LeBlanc etc all look like good picks.

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Old
07-26-2010, 10:51 AM
  #40
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Someone who is terrible at his job and doesn't deserve to have his name spelled properly. Just like Ganeiy.
I guess I should start spelling your name wrong then.

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Old
07-26-2010, 10:53 AM
  #41
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Because they have way more time to evaluate them and sign them...

Way too early: Pacioretty

But just fine: Fischer.

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