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Carter/Giroux/Leino/Zherdev cap hit next year?

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Old
07-24-2010, 01:58 PM
  #51
GoneFullHextall
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he will keep the billion dollar defense together so somone is gone for sure.

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07-24-2010, 02:29 PM
  #52
mypunkrock
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Sign Giroux long term. 7 year, $4mil cap hit. Carter will probably be given an offer sheet. We need the picks and the cap space. Leino ain't coming back. Zherdev ain't coming back.

We'll waive/ trade some of the defensemen. O'Donnell comes off the books. Walker will not be staying in the NHL. Carle will likely be traded. I'm calling it now that Betts' shoulder doesn't hold up beyond when his contract ends. Lappy will have one year left after this year. Carcillo and Powe return to being UFA's.

We'll have Jody Shelley forever....

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07-24-2010, 02:44 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So, what's under performing in your book? In his last 156 games, Carter has 79 goals. That's better than a goal every other game.
Does it include the playoffs even if we throw out the "two broken feet" playoff year?

Hot and cold streaks will tend to smooth out the statistical results/avg....he's a streaky player and people such as Meltzer have said as much. The whole 5 game torching the net and then 10 games he's shooting high and wide has been his MO for a bit too long now. He needs to put it together and perform more consistently especially if he wants to command 6.5 to 7M. If he puts together another 30 goal 60 pt year he will have underperformed like he did this past season but at least it was at 5M and not 6-7M.

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07-24-2010, 03:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Carter will probably be given an offer sheet.
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. No one is going to give up 4 firsts for Carter, and anything under 7 million and the flyers match it.

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07-24-2010, 04:05 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. No one is going to give up 4 firsts for Carter, and anything under 7 million and the flyers match it.
I see teams, particularly two Canadian ones, consider it. He is only 25 with a proven history of production. Also, the Flyers simply cannot afford to match anything over his current contract without first shedding weight.

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07-24-2010, 04:19 PM
  #56
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I don't see Zherdev and Leino on this team long term.
We probably run with

Richards
Briere
Carter
JVR
Hartnell
Giroux

as the scoring core and add some pluggers who can fill some roles for the bottom six.

That being said.
Carter 8 years $46mil
Giroux 3 years $13mil

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Old
07-24-2010, 04:28 PM
  #57
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watch homer decide that zherdev will be briere's long-term replacement, resign him for too much, and then try to trade briere and fail, leading to another gagne-like incident.

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Old
07-24-2010, 04:33 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Does it include the playoffs even if we throw out the "two broken feet" playoff year?

Hot and cold streaks will tend to smooth out the statistical results/avg....he's a streaky player and people such as Meltzer have said as much. The whole 5 game torching the net and then 10 games he's shooting high and wide has been his MO for a bit too long now. He needs to put it together and perform more consistently especially if he wants to command 6.5 to 7M. If he puts together another 30 goal 60 pt year he will have underperformed like he did this past season but at least it was at 5M and not 6-7M.
If he puts together another 30 goal, 60 point year, he won't be asking for 6-7M in the first place.

I do think Carter generally wants to stay. The way he handled his RFA business (signed quickly, went out, and earned his money) is a decent sign, but I don't expect him to take a Richards deal. I'd bet he signs for 5-7 years at 6.5.-7.0 (assuming he has a 40-40-80 year) and I personally think that kind of money would be worth it.

Giroux I'm not as sure on. Even if he puts up 50-60 points in 10-11, he really, really struggled this year. I think it was a product of where he was playing, but let's not forget he had fewer ES points than JVR. If he gets on wing though, he'll be fine, I could see a relatively short-term deal, maybe 3 years at 10 mill or something.

Leino, I have no idea, I don't think anyone does.

Zherdev, should only be here for 1 year, regardless. He'll either crash and burn or do great and get paid somewhere else.

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Old
07-24-2010, 04:41 PM
  #59
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Carter: 2 years at a 7.0 cap hit
4 years at 6.5
10 years at 5.8

Giroux: 2 years at 4.2

Leino: Good season 4 years at 3.5
Average season 2 years at 2.5
Bad season 1 year at 1.2

Zherdev: Good season 6 years at 4.5
Average season 3 years at 3.0
Bad season KHL

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Old
07-25-2010, 03:53 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
They won't, nor should they. The NMCs/NTCs are the GMs own creation.
Oh no, it's players and agents as well that have asked for those stupid things. Agreed though that it's been GMs that have been dumb enough to include those clauses into contracts. If they choose not to get rid of them, at the very least, if a player asks for a No Trade Clause and then decides they want out of it, if they waive their No Trade Clause, then they do not get to decide where they get traded to. They are opened to any team available. As for GMs who ask players to break their no trade clause, then the player should be given the choice of where they want to be traded to.

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Old
07-25-2010, 03:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Oh no, it's players and agents as well that have asked for those stupid things. Agreed though that it's been GMs that have been dumb enough to include those clauses into contracts. If they choose not to get rid of them, at the very least, if a player asks for a No Trade Clause and then decides they want out of it, if they waive their No Trade Clause, then they do not get to decide where they get traded to. They are opened to any team available. As for GMs who ask players to break their no trade clause, then the player should be given the choice of where they want to be traded to.
Which, outside of the threat to waive (not a problem if you have a NMC), they have as is.

I just don't have much pity for GMs that give these things out left and right.

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Old
07-25-2010, 04:00 PM
  #62
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Carter: 6 million (could be traded)
Giroux: 4 million
Leino: 3-4 million
Zherdev: 4-5 million (Doubt hes in Philadelphia for more than a year)

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Old
07-25-2010, 05:41 PM
  #63
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Old
07-25-2010, 06:30 PM
  #64
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we sign roo, carter, and leino for 11.5 (total) and trade the rights to zherdev for a 3rd round pick!

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Old
07-25-2010, 06:35 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Sign Giroux long term. 7 year, $4mil cap hit. Carter will probably be given an offer sheet. We need the picks and the cap space. Leino ain't coming back. Zherdev ain't coming back.

We'll waive/ trade some of the defensemen. O'Donnell comes off the books. Walker will not be staying in the NHL. Carle will likely be traded. I'm calling it now that Betts' shoulder doesn't hold up beyond when his contract ends. Lappy will have one year left after this year. Carcillo and Powe return to being UFA's.

We'll have Jody Shelley forever....
Realistic, but I can see Carter getting a 7 year deal for around 6 mil per.

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07-25-2010, 07:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
Realistic, but I can see Carter getting a 7 year deal for around 6 mil per.
In that case, the Flyers would get 4 1st round picks (unless the league average salary sees a drastic increase) which is good compensation for Carter.

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07-25-2010, 07:14 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SympathyForTheDevils View Post
In that case, the Flyers would get 4 1st round picks (unless the league average salary sees a drastic increase) which is good compensation for Carter.
Not when you're actively trying to win a Cup, and not just rebuild.

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07-25-2010, 07:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not when you're actively trying to win a Cup, and not just rebuild.
I believe you can achieve some sort of balance between rebuilding and going all out. With the large amount of luck required to win the Cup, I think it's preferable to make moves to keep your team competitive in the long run rather betting all your chips on a 1-2 year window. Carter is a very good player, which is why he's the only Flyer, with Richards, that could be used to acquire young, cheap talent (probably the most valuable thing in a capped NHL). Plus, the Flyers will have to let a couple people go next year anyway.

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07-25-2010, 07:46 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SympathyForTheDevils View Post
I believe you can achieve some sort of balance between rebuilding and going all out. With the large amount of luck required to win the Cup, I think it's preferable to make moves to keep your team competitive in the long run rather betting all your chips on a 1-2 year window. Carter is a very good player, which is why he's the only Flyer, with Richards, that could be used to acquire young, cheap talent (probably the most valuable thing in a capped NHL). Plus, the Flyers will have to let a couple people go next year anyway.
The Flyers salary structure is set up to go for it now... not in a few years. We already have a paucity of talent in the system. So if you let Jeff Carter go for stuff that isn't going to help you really for 3+ years, then you're looking at an incredible cold spell followed by the vets not being there.

Not worth it.

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07-25-2010, 08:16 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The Flyers salary structure is set up to go for it now... not in a few years. We already have a paucity of talent in the system. So if you let Jeff Carter go for stuff that isn't going to help you really for 3+ years, then you're looking at an incredible cold spell followed by the vets not being there.

Not worth it.
I see your point. Still, if Pronger-Timonen get worse and the Flyers fall short, they may find themselves at a crossroads. An aging defense, an offense that's bleeding talent and, well, Leighton (or Turco). That cold spell is coming anyway. Unless Carter puts up 90 pts, letting him go for 4 1st round picks isn't necessarily bad asset management. In any case, it depends on what happens next year.

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Old
07-25-2010, 08:47 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Carter: 7 Years, 45.5M :: 6.5M/per
Giroux: 5 Years 20M :: 4M/per
Leino: 3 Years, 7.2M :: 2.4M/per
Seems pretty reasonable, I don't see Giroux or the Flyers going for a deal that length but I'd like it. I think lower cap hit, fewer years, but I'd love to see what you're describing. Leino and Carter numbers look pretty on, Leino maybe even a little cheaper, just depends. I think he was playing over his head along the boards but he has all the offensive skill we saw and more. He just needs to keep making progress. Carter I think that is reasonable enough if he has another 35-goal-plus campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. No one is going to give up 4 firsts for Carter, and anything under 7 million and the flyers match it.
Why not? Is he any less valuable than Kessel or Vanek? Kessel may be a better offensive player but contributes very little defensively and is even streakier than Carter. Vanek is a one-dimensional player who is streakier than either and his best years are no better than Carter's in the goalscoring department. That is the only thing he does well. If teams are not willing to five four firsts for bankable 35/35 guys with 45/45 potential, who are they willing to give it for? Based on what we've seen so far, I don't think it unimaginable for Carter to get an offer sheet at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SympathyForTheDevils View Post
I see your point. Still, if Pronger-Timonen get worse and the Flyers fall short, they may find themselves at a crossroads. An aging defense, an offense that's bleeding talent and, well, Leighton (or Turco). That cold spell is coming anyway. Unless Carter puts up 90 pts, letting him go for 4 1st round picks isn't necessarily bad asset management. In any case, it depends on what happens next year.
I'd try and get a deal done before the RFA period, if the offer does come it will be an onerous that the Flyers will have almost no choice but to NOT match. Teams don't lowball in those situations, they overpay.

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07-25-2010, 11:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by SympathyForTheDevils View Post
I see your point. Still, if Pronger-Timonen get worse and the Flyers fall short, they may find themselves at a crossroads. An aging defense, an offense that's bleeding talent and, well, Leighton (or Turco). That cold spell is coming anyway. Unless Carter puts up 90 pts, letting him go for 4 1st round picks isn't necessarily bad asset management. In any case, it depends on what happens next year.
You cut a deal for NHL-ready talent, not draft picks.

Carter is arbitration eligible anyway, so he won't be receiving any offer sheets.

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Old
07-25-2010, 11:32 PM
  #73
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I have a feeling if Carter gets locked up long term for 6M. If he wants more than that... I would wave goodbye.

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Old
07-26-2010, 12:15 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You cut a deal for NHL-ready talent, not draft picks.

Carter is arbitration eligible anyway, so he won't be receiving any offer sheets.
True

In any case, unless a big salary goes, Leino and Zherdev are probably both gone next year.

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Old
07-26-2010, 08:50 AM
  #75
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If Carter wants anything north of 6 million (barring an incredible year from him) I think we'd have to move him. I'm hoping for a Richards like contract.

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