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2010-2011 Florida Panthers Prospect Poll #10

View Poll Results: Who is the Panthers #10 Ranked Prospect?
Keaton Ellerby - D [2007 - 10th Overall] 18 43.90%
Kenndal McArdle - LW [2005 - 20th Overall] 1 2.44%
Alexander Petrovic - D [2010 - 36th Overall] 7 17.07%
Drew Shore - C [2009 - 44th Overall] 3 7.32%
Alexander Salak - G [FA] 3 7.32%
Evgeni Dadonov - RW [2007 - 71st Overall] 8 19.51%
Marc Cheverie - G [2006 - 193rd Overall] 0 0%
Connor Brickley - C [2010 - 50th Overall] 0 0%
Garrett Wilson - LW [2009 - 107th Overall] 0 0%
Joonas Donskoi - RW [2010 - 99th Overall] 1 2.44%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-26-2010, 09:56 PM
  #26
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I don't just pull crap out my ass. (That came out wrong.)
I'm not saying you did, I just wondered where you were getting those impressions from. I have to say I don't know how they are seeing those things about him either. You can knock me if you want, but I stand by my opinions. I'm just telling you what I've seen.

-I don't see Petrovic as an "all or nothing guy" in any way. In fact, I think he plays it pretty safe.

-He wins more battles than he loses for the puck. For sure.

-He gets beat so often in his own end? What the heck? The whole reason this guy was ranked as a first rounder in some circles and went #36 is because of his defensive zone play mostly. Why else would he be thought so highly of? For his cool haircut?



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And AGAIN, people, before we get involved in McFarland 2.0, I'm not saying that Petrovic isn't a good prospect or that I want him to fail. Just that some of you need to ease off the throttle on the hype machine instead of resorting to homerism. If we're real about our prospects and understand that not everyone is a blue chip prospect, we'll be much more prepared to see what this team's strong points are, and what we're lacking.
What homerism? How does voting someone as the #10 prospect in our system equate to him being a bluechip prospect?

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The same thing happened with Matthias. He was touted on this board after the Bertuzzi trade as our next #1 center, the next phenom, ready to dominate right out of the gate.
You're taking it way too far. Matthias WAS a great center prospect in junior, nobody was at fault for expecting him to possibly become an elite 2nd line center. Who knows, he could still become a 2nd line center, maybe not an elite one, but that wouldn't be too far off the projection. In his last year of junior he was widely considered the best two-way player in the CHL. It's not like people just started hyping him up for no reason. I don't think anyone thought he would become some dominant #1 center, I think you are taking that too far. I don't recall anyone saying he would dominate right out of the gate either.

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It turns out he's a pouter when sent to the AHL and doesn't want to earn his bones, and then struggles to get on the board once given a shot in the NHL.
That is debatable, he had it rough in Rochester his first year too. He had huge expectations placed on him by the Rochester fans, and when he didn't become a superstar right off the bat they booed him every game. That's something no 20 year old in the AHL should have to go through. Pretty dumb actually, but hey, he got through it and looks like he's ready for NHL duty now. His production isn't bad at all for a forward his age in the NHL, considering he repeatedly got sent back and recalled, never settled in for a long period of time. Once he did around the trade deadline, he started picking up the scoring, ended with 4 pts. in last 5 games. He's definitely at least a 3rd line center in the NHL at this point, with room to grow.

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MR, Petrovic is a long term prospect. He needs work. He's not NHL ready and judging from actual scouting reports, he's still a few seasons off.
No he ain't. I never said he was NHL ready, but yes, a few seasons off. Which isn't a long term project. That's what it takes most d-men to make the NHL after they are drafted, even 1st rounders. Only the creme of the crop make it to the NHL right away or a year later.

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Because, King Panther, they're paid professionals who must have a modicum of credibility or else no one will purchase their product. I put much more weight into the opinion of paid scouts and analysts over HFboards fanboys who likely have never seen a given prospect play, and possibly never even heard of said prospect until after we drafted him.
You can believe the paid scouts and such if you want, but I'm just giving my opinion as well, and I have seen Petrovic play a handful of times. I'm not trying to say anything about myself, just saying, I'm just putting it out there. I do know what I'm talking about though and not just making stuff up.

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07-26-2010, 11:26 PM
  #27
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MR, I didn't mean to single you out when I was referencing fanboys. You know that I know that you know what you're talking about. You and J17 are probably the two most knowledgeable posters on the Panther's forum with regard to our prospects in the pipeline. I know that Petrovic is a solid prospect, but I just think that building hype is doing no one good at this point in time, as it blinds people to the reality of our situation. And that's what we're doing with Petrovic, and it's what we're doing with McFarland. We're placing high expectations on these two young guys that are still raw and have a long way to go before they're NHL ready. And like you displayed with the Matthias example, it sets them up for failure and frustration.

I personally think that Petrovic is a good prospect. I also personally think that McFarland is a good prospect. They just have improving to do, especially if they warrant a higher ranking in our organization than a guy like Dadonov, who has professional experience under his belt and has improved consistently over time. And I'm not pulling this criticism out of my butt, but am basing it not only on scouting reports, but statistics over time.

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07-26-2010, 11:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
MR, I didn't mean to single you out when I was referencing fanboys. You know that I know that you know what you're talking about. You and J17 are probably the two most knowledgeable posters on the Panther's forum with regard to our prospects in the pipeline. I know that Petrovic is a solid prospect, but I just think that building hype is doing no one good at this point in time, as it blinds people to the reality of our situation. And that's what we're doing with Petrovic, and it's what we're doing with McFarland. We're placing high expectations on these two young guys that are still raw and have a long way to go before they're NHL ready. And like you displayed with the Matthias example, it sets them up for failure and frustration.

I personally think that Petrovic is a good prospect. I also personally think that McFarland is a good prospect. They just have improving to do, especially if they warrant a higher ranking in our organization than a guy like Dadonov, who has professional experience under his belt and has improved consistently over time. And I'm not pulling this criticism out of my butt, but am basing it not only on scouting reports, but statistics over time.
I don't think though that just because a guy has pro experience and has produced reasonably shoud automatically put him ahead of another prospect just because they don't have pro experience. I mean, experience and being proven definitely counts, but I factor in potential as well. I just see higher potential in Petrovic and McFarland than in Dadonov, which is not to say he's bad, only that I don't think his potential is as high. And I see Petrovic and McFarland as likely to fulfill their potential, or most of it anyway, especially Petrovic. I don't see how McFarland being our #8 prospect and Petrovic likely #11 or #12, and voting for them instead of Dadonov after our first 7 prospect slots have been voted on, is overrating them or hyping them up. I think it's very reasonable. I mean, if it was #3 or 4, I could see your point, but...

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07-27-2010, 04:26 AM
  #29
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Dadonov. add timmins

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07-27-2010, 07:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Because, King Panther, they're paid professionals who must have a modicum of credibility or else no one will purchase their product. I put much more weight into the opinion of paid scouts and analysts over HFboards fanboys who likely have never seen a given prospect play, and possibly never even heard of said prospect until after we drafted him.
yet these paid pros are wrong on 70-90% of the predictions they make every year.

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07-27-2010, 07:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
yet these paid pros are wrong on 70-90% of the predictions they make every year.
I'd like to see you provide a link to verify your claim that the predictions these experts make can be quantified as incorrect 70-90% every year.

Oh, wait. You can't. Because it doesn't exist.

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07-27-2010, 08:12 AM
  #32
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I don't think though that just because a guy has pro experience and has produced reasonably shoud automatically put him ahead of another prospect just because they don't have pro experience.
Neither do I. I judge a prospect by questioning whether he's continually improving. Dadonov took a big step last year (in the 2nd half of the season, I believe) against much tougher competition than one would see in major juniors. If a prospect accumulates pro experience and answers the bell, then all things being equal I think he's worthy of a higher ranking that a guy still in juniors.

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I mean, experience and being proven definitely counts, but I factor in potential as well.
I've recently become of the opinion that the entire concept of "potential" as a buzzword is overrated and thrown around too much. Like I said before, I judge our prospects by how well they've done in recent seasons and whether they've improved their performance or not (and also scouting reports). If a player is able to step up his game and improve his game from year to year, against increasingly difficult competition, I think he's worth of a higher ranking than than a guy with a boatload of unrealized "potential." Dadonov has stepped up his game and improved over time. McFarland, for example, has not. That's pretty much endgame for me, until either Dadonov plateaus, which he hasn't yet, or McFarland steps it up in a big way, which he hasn't yet.

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I just see higher potential in Petrovic and McFarland than in Dadonov, which is not to say he's bad, only that I don't think his potential is as high.
Interestingly enough, I agree with you 100%. I think that McFarland and Petrovic have the unrealized potential to have longer NHL careers than Dadonov. But I think that Dadonov, at this point in time, has proven more against tougher competition than anyone else on this list.

I guess I just value actual proven results over potential future results when I rate prospects.

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I don't see how McFarland being our #8 prospect and Petrovic likely #11 or #12, and voting for them instead of Dadonov after our first 7 prospect slots have been voted on, is overrating them or hyping them up. I think it's very reasonable. I mean, if it was #3 or 4, I could see your point, but...
I would actually put both McFarland and Petrovic very close after Dadonov. I'm just trying to make a case for why I'm voting the way I'm voting, and also to emphasize that we don't get ahead of ourselves in hyping unproven prospects just because they're fresh out of the draft.

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07-27-2010, 09:38 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'd like to see you provide a link to verify your claim that the predictions these experts make can be quantified as incorrect 70-90% every year.

Oh, wait. You can't. Because it doesn't exist.
why do i have to. thats about the percentage of players with first round grades that bust. these people are supposed to make their money by predicting these players futures. the best and highest scouts are the ones who can do it the most accurately. yet 70-90% of these predictions are wrong.

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07-27-2010, 10:19 AM
  #34
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why do i have to.
Because you made a claim. It's general debate etiquette, amongst adults at least, to back up the claims you make with either some sort of explanation or with verifiable evidence.

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thats about the percentage of players with first round grades that bust.
Ehh, no. Go look at the Internet Hockey Database and peruse through the first rounders drafted over the last 20 years or so. You may be surprised to see that a vast majority have become not OMG MEGA SUPERSTARS, but solid and contributing NHL regulars.
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these people are supposed to make their money by predicting these players futures. the best and highest scouts are the ones who can do it the most accurately. yet 70-90% of these predictions are wrong.
No. No one predicts the future, nor do they imply they do. They do, however, say that such-and-such-player has this upside, and may one day develop into this type of player, perhaps comparable to to current NHL regular X,Y, or Z. They do say that this prospect is good at this aspect of the game, yet weak at this aspect of the game, or that this player's work ethic is great, while this player needs an attitude adjustment.

The bottom line is that no one can predict the anyone's future. They can only estimate what kind of player any given prospect may develop into given the time, effort, and right circumstances.

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07-27-2010, 11:04 AM
  #35
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Because you made a claim. It's general debate etiquette, amongst adults at least, to back up the claims you make with either some sort of explanation or with verifiable evidence.
This isnt a debate it is a discussion. Its a very fragile ego that gets off on proving others wrong. (I should know Im a lawyer lol). It wasnt a claim either, just an opinion.

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No. No one predicts the future, nor do they imply they do. They do, however, say that such-and-such-player has this upside, and may one day develop into this type of player, perhaps comparable to to current NHL regular X,Y, or Z. They do say that this prospect is good at this aspect of the game, yet weak at this aspect of the game, or that this player's work ethic is great, while this player needs an attitude adjustment.

The bottom line is that no one can predict the anyone's future. They can only estimate what kind of player any given prospect may develop into given the time, effort, and right circumstances.
youre being a little naive here. im not saying that anyone actually predicts the future, at least not in the lightning is gonna strike that clocktower next week and were gonna use it to send you back to 1985 sense. but these people are absolutely paid to predict which kids will actually turn into players at the nhl. they are graded and paid based off of how well they do this. any idiot can watch a little tape and give you an opinion of strengths and weaknesses. that is not how they get paid. they are supposed to learn everything they can about these kids by observing everything about them so they can weed out the head cases and cancers and determine which of them will develop their talent, because they all have talent.

as far as the percentages go, you do the research and come up with the exact number if you so choose, i was merely ballparking to make the point, which is just cause a scout said it dont mean nada.

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07-27-2010, 11:46 AM
  #36
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This isnt a debate it is a discussion. Its a very fragile ego that gets off on proving others wrong. (I should know Im a lawyer lol). It wasnt a claim either, just an opinion.
Debate, discussion, whatever. Semantics. You make a statement, you back it up. I'm not trying to prove others wrong, hotshot, I'm just positing an opinion and backing it up with insight.

I can't help but find your claim to be an attorney dubious, by the way. If you're a lawyer, I'm a rocket scientist. lol.

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youre being a little naive here.
Don't belittle me, counselor.

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im not saying that anyone actually predicts the future, at least not in the lightning is gonna strike that clocktower next week and were gonna use it to send you back to 1985 sense. but these people are absolutely paid to predict which kids will actually turn into players at the nhl.
And considering the fact that historically speaking the highest ranked players generally end up with the better NHL careers, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job. Put simply, you'll find more NHL regulars drafted out of the first round than the second round.

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they are graded and paid based off of how well they do this. any idiot can watch a little tape and give you an opinion of strengths and weaknesses. that is not how they get paid. they are supposed to learn everything they can about these kids by observing everything about them so they can weed out the head cases and cancers and determine which of them will develop their talent, because they all have talent.
I'm not sure why you're telling me this, counselor. I've been around the block a few years. I think I know what a scout's job is. Which is why, after spending 8 hours a day scouting and evaluating talent, I'm going to take their word over some random internet schmo's.

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as far as the percentages go, you do the research and come up with the exact number if you so choose,
No. You make the claim, you do the research. I can say the sky is pink all god damned day, but it doesn't mean jack if I don't back up my claim with evidence. Coulda sworn an attorney would know that. lol.

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i was merely ballparking to make the point
Wrong ballpark, wrong city, and wrong sport.

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which is just cause a scout said it dont mean nada.
It means a lot more than what some dude behind a computer said. Expert witness and all that, counselor. lol.

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07-27-2010, 11:50 AM
  #37
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ellerby for me and it isn't even close. He and Garrison should be ahead of Howden and McFarland

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07-27-2010, 12:02 PM
  #38
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King Panther, there is more chance of me being a Porn actor than there is you being an attorney.

So .. er, who wants to see me love make? Yeah ...

I have to take Ellerby here. Not a massive fan of his game - he has enough attributes, skating and size, that guarantee he should be an NHL player, but the tool box IMO restricts him from being anything significant. He can still be a steady #3 or #4 and thats what Petrovic projects to be ; yet is 3 years behind on the development curve.

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07-27-2010, 02:52 PM
  #39
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Clint you're either rude by nature (in which case your punishment is being you) or you're getting way too worked up over this. If you wanna believe what they say then good for you.

Clint and J17, Im not going to try to prove to either of you that Im a lawyer. Maybe its because Im not a lawyer, maybe its because I dont care what a couple of, what was the word Clint, schmo i believe, what a couple of schmos think. You choose. Either way, the fact that you 1) think Im bragging about being a lawyer, or 2) think it is difficult to become one shows how very little you know about being a lawyer.

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07-27-2010, 03:24 PM
  #40
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King Panther: Anyone who has taken even an intro college course on any area of law (hell, even a high school college prep law course) can see quite clearly from your posts that you are not an attorney. So I would suggest dropping that particular angle.

AS for the prospect poll, I will continue voting for Drew Shore until he gets voted in! And no, I am not prepared to back my position up

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07-27-2010, 05:08 PM
  #41
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Clint you're either rude by nature (in which case your punishment is being you) or you're getting way too worked up over this. If you wanna believe what they say then good for you.
You're the only one getting worked up, counselor. Like I said, I'm just positing my opinion and backing it up with logic and reason. If you think my disagreeing with you over prospects and scouts is getting "worked up" then I doubt you'll last long in a courtroom.

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Clint and J17, Im not going to try to prove to either of you that Im a lawyer. Maybe its because Im not a lawyer, maybe its because I dont care what a couple of, what was the word Clint, schmo i believe, what a couple of schmos think.
Eh, no. It's because you're not a lawyer.

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Either way, the fact that you 1) think Im bragging about being a lawyer, or 2) think it is difficult to become one shows how very little you know about being a lawyer.
You saying it's not difficult to become a lawyer shows how very little you know about the law. Unless, of course, you went to a 4th tier school like, say, FIU.

I like how you just changed your occupation from student to law, BTW. Nice touch.

Let's do a little sleuthing. You joined in February. Your occupation was listed as "student." Isn't the Florida bar exam... today? Pray tell, counselor, how can you be a lawyer if your semester just ended and you haven't even passed the bar yet?



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07-27-2010, 06:58 PM
  #42
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You're the only one getting worked up, counselor. Like I said, I'm just positing my opinion and backing it up with logic and reason. If you think my disagreeing with you over prospects and scouts is getting "worked up" then I doubt you'll last long in a courtroom.

Eh, no. It's because you're not a lawyer.



You saying it's not difficult to become a lawyer shows how very little you know about the law. Unless, of course, you went to a 4th tier school like, say, FIU.

I like how you just changed your occupation from student to law, BTW. Nice touch.

Let's do a little sleuthing. You joined in February. Your occupation was listed as "student." Isn't the Florida bar exam... today? Pray tell, counselor, how can you be a lawyer if your semester just ended and you haven't even passed the bar yet?

You guys are intense, haha.

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07-27-2010, 07:29 PM
  #43
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You guys are intense, haha.
YOUR NAME'S NOT REALLY MIKE BURELL, IS IT!?!?!?!??!?! I BET YOU'RE NOT EVEN REALLY FROM CANADIA!!!!!

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07-27-2010, 09:37 PM
  #44
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You saying it's not difficult to become a lawyer shows how very little you know about the law. Unless, of course, you went to a 4th tier school like, say, FIU.

I like how you just changed your occupation from student to law, BTW. Nice touch.

Let's do a little sleuthing. You joined in February. Your occupation was listed as "student." Isn't the Florida bar exam... today? Pray tell, counselor, how can you be a lawyer if your semester just ended and you haven't even passed the bar yet?
yawn! well i guess you just proved beyond a reasonable doubt that im not a lawyer. unless you consider that, i graduated in december, passed the bar in february, am currently working in a law firm doing ERISA litigation until next semester begins because Im doing an LLM which is a masters in law if you didnt know. i did just change my occupation from student to law because it is the first time i thought about since i registered. im sure if i go to some of the other message boards i use they still say that im an accountant. once again, yawn!

and i am now officially done with this line of conversation.

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07-27-2010, 10:07 PM
  #45
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yawn! well i guess you just proved beyond a reasonable doubt that im not a lawyer. unless you consider that, i graduated in december, passed the bar in february, am currently working in a law firm doing ERISA litigation until next semester begins because Im doing an LLM which is a masters in law if you didnt know. i did just change my occupation from student to law because it is the first time i thought about since i registered. im sure if i go to some of the other message boards i use they still say that im an accountant. once again, yawn!

and i am now officially done with this line of conversation.
Congrats! I'm not sure why people would care so much about the validity of your claimed profession because I thought these were forums for hockey. If you are a Panther fan then you are cool by me.
I'm a really good cook because I have worked in various kitchens around North America for 17 years. I might consider myself a chef purely on experience. Anyone have a problem with that?

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07-27-2010, 11:43 PM
  #46
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I've recently become of the opinion that the entire concept of "potential" as a buzzword is overrated and thrown around too much. Like I said before, I judge our prospects by how well they've done in recent seasons and whether they've improved their performance or not (and also scouting reports). If a player is able to step up his game and improve his game from year to year, against increasingly difficult competition, I think he's worth of a higher ranking than than a guy with a boatload of unrealized "potential." Dadonov has stepped up his game and improved over time. McFarland, for example, has not. That's pretty much endgame for me, until either Dadonov plateaus, which he hasn't yet, or McFarland steps it up in a big way, which he hasn't yet.
The problem with that though is that Dadonov is 3 years older. So basically you're just saying that he's older. I mean, I know that's not literally what you're saying, but that's what it comes down to. I just can't agree with that. If I see a guy with what I think is higher potential and I think he is at least somewhat likely to reach it, then I am rating him higher.

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07-28-2010, 12:27 AM
  #47
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I don't see why King Panther can't be a lawyer. Not every lawyer talks like Perry Mason. lol

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07-28-2010, 12:40 AM
  #48
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YOUR NAME'S NOT REALLY MIKE BURELL, IS IT!?!?!?!??!?! I BET YOU'RE NOT EVEN REALLY FROM CANADIA!!!!!

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07-28-2010, 07:41 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I don't just pull crap out my ass. (That came out wrong.)
Of course it did - you're supposed to push, not pull. Yuck, Clint...just....yuck. Remind me never to shake hands with you

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07-28-2010, 07:55 AM
  #50
Clint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Of course it did - you're supposed to push, not pull. Yuck, Clint...just....yuck. Remind me never to shake hands with you
You would never shake hands with a libtard like me anyway, you neo-con!

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