HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Montreal was #1 priority for Éric Bélanger

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-27-2010, 02:31 PM
  #151
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
why wasnt subban on our roster? he was clearly nhl ready.. he played 3-4 games in the season. your point is moot.
Subban was absolutely dominant in the AHL. Eller has Ben Maxwell's numbers in the AHL.

Don't you think we should also consider a player's AHL performance before we determine if he's "NHL ready"??? I think we should.

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:31 PM
  #152
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
But guys like Pyatt and Lapierre have pretty much taken care of the checking 3rd line, last season. So there is in fact an alternative to Eller with plenty of checkers on the bottom 6, including Darche, Moen, Boyd (whose face-offs % is pretty good). Some would like to see Desharnais given a chance; there'd be no room for even a slight chance for him if Belanger/Moore would have been hired.

I think there are too many possibilities on the bottom 6 and adding another checker would only prevent a youngster to pursue his development in the NHL or stop Eller from growing on a more productive 3rd line as you would simply not hire an experienced checker such as Belanger only to give him 4th line minutes.
Very good post in my opinion... especially because if needed, you can always get that experienced 3rd or 4th liner at the deadline... (but hopefully not always for a 2nd rounder) ...

but on the other hand, even if that makes sense, it will always irritate people to see a determined, motivated, performing quebecer being denied a chance to play here... and that puts just a little more weight on the organization everytime. pyatt over belanger? fine ... but if belanger is better than the rest of our bottom 6 for the next 3 years, don't act so surprised if you hear about it again.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 07-27-2010 at 02:37 PM.
THE HOFF is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:32 PM
  #153
swimmer77
What's an ROW?
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,369
vCash: 500
I think there are valid points on both sides of the debate of Belanger vs. Boyd and Eller. But right now I have no problem with Gauthier taking a wait and see attitude to what the needs are really going to be.

And maybe I'm wrong about this but there seems to be a surplus of free agents (bottom 6forwards) including the ones we just cut loose. What's entirely wrong with taking a risk, seeing who shows up in camp and better determining what players are needed to fill the voids the Habs will have and maybe at a reduced price?

I'm just of the opinion from the article that Belanger wasn't a consideration after Pleks signed. IDK

swimmer77 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:35 PM
  #154
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Bélanger just got a 41 points season, his best ever. Check your stats before saying non-senses.

His offensive production has steadily been around 35 points per year since 2002.

And of course, someone has to bring the French argument.
Yeah, i completely screwed up the numbers, my bad.

And yes, the language issue comes up because your reputation proceeds you now. Don't act like it doesn't. I wonder how many people saw the thread title, followed their cursor to the right and read: Partisan Du CH as the author of the thread and just rolled their eyes.

I would love if this whole team was quebecois and winning cups left and right, but we're not and we won't if we try that approach. Like someone else said, he's the kinda player you get at the deadline if you think you can make a push. If Belanger is the difference between making a deep cup run and not getting the chance to (ie: not making the playoffs), your team has more problems than just a 3rd line C to fix.

overlords is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:36 PM
  #155
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
common man dont ******** us...we're not dumb and we're not blind. If his name was Bellangino like the other poster said, you wouldnt give a **** about him.
I also argued in other threads that we should sign Moore, Malhotra or Cullen to fill that hole on the 3rd line, and surprisingly, nobody accused me of racism and of "wanting them only because they are Canadians". But of course, wanting a player from Quebec is very suspicious around here... It's just impossible here to say anything good about a French Canadian player without being accused of racism.

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:36 PM
  #156
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Subban was absolutely dominant in the AHL. Eller has Ben Maxwell's numbers in the AHL.

Don't you think we should also consider a player's AHL performance before we determine if he's "NHL ready"??? I think we should.
Anyone who has followed eller in the AHL will tell you he was playing with scrubs for most of the year and started the year with mono.

overlords is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:37 PM
  #157
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Balearic Islands
Posts: 23,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Subban was absolutely dominant in the AHL. Eller has Ben Maxwell's numbers in the AHL.
Don't you think we should also consider a player's AHL performance before we determine if he's "NHL ready"??? I think we should.
What does Eller's numbers have to do with Maxwell's?

montreal is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:38 PM
  #158
Max Levine
Registered User
 
Max Levine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
The danger I see with Eller, is that he may be rushed to the NHL because we have no other options on the 3rd line, without the tools or teammates to succeed.

It's easy to see this scenario happening : Around Christmas time, Eller is still not producing, so we acquire a 3rd line center via trade. Eller is sent back to Hamilton, and will have "Pacioretty kind" of success there. Then next year, we'll all be worried about his development, and we'll blame PG for rushing him into the NHL. Of course, it will be totally forgotten that the year before, 95% of the posters here thought Eller was "NHL ready", and that "Eller is NHL ready" had become at that time the most over-used sentence on the Habs board.
I understand your feeling but there isn't much comparisons between Eller and Pacioretty. Max came directly from the NCAA (actually, one single year in Michigan) when he joined the Habs. Eller has spent a year in the Swedish Elite and another full year in the AHL. Eller is a playmaker while MaxPac is a power forward. Takes more time for a youngster to develop into a PF.

As for Eller not producing on the 3rd line, considering he's a playmaker, would be hard to blame him. The only way Eller could be taken away from the 3rd line would have to be Martin looking for a more checking, defensive line. He would then use Eller as a winger in the top 6. Fact is: Eller is not an AHL player.

Max Levine is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:42 PM
  #159
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
What does Eller's numbers have to do with Maxwell's?
Just to add some perspective. One is supposedly "NHL ready" for a 3rd line spot, while the other one continues his tumble downward on our prospects list, but both have similar numbers in the same league.

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:44 PM
  #160
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Well, since I hate to disappoint, here goes...

Having a good third/fourth line centre is a reasonable argument for strength and depth on paper, and thus as a Cup "contender". I think this is where Partisan was trying to go.
Well considering he disagreed with you, I'm guessing that's not where he wanted to go. But as I predicted earlier, you were going to come in and fix Partisan's position in order to defend you response to me. Putting words in other people's mouths is what you do best. You write well, I see it all the time with university students, you are good passing around stuff that isn't there.

Quote:
Conversely, not having a Stanley Cup ring is not a valid argument against a player's worth or potential to contribute to a Stanley Cup "contender", which seems to be precisely what you tried to slide on in there.
Yet partisan thought that Boyd not making the playoffs was a valid argument as to why he wasn't a good third line center(Even though he's been in the playoffs in both his nhl seasons as a third line center). Also follow the entire dialogue before you pick one part out of context. Look at why I posted the Stanley Cup question.
Quote:
And I don't even think we should/should have go/gone after Belanger necessarily. He would be a 4th liner, and probably too expensive to be used/signed as one.
I agree.

Andy is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:44 PM
  #161
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Just to add some perspective. One is supposedly "NHL ready" for a 3rd line spot, while the other one continues his tumble downward on our prospects list, but both have similar numbers in the same league.
When our GM say he think Eller will start the year in MTL, you really think it mean nothing and he's not NHL ready?

Quarantesix is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:48 PM
  #162
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Balearic Islands
Posts: 23,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Just to add some perspective. One is supposedly "NHL ready" for a 3rd line spot, while the other one continues his tumble downward on our prospects list, but both have similar numbers in the same league.
But you can't compare them. Eller was groomed in the Danish hockey program and then moved to the SEL. It was his first year in North America, playing on the smaller ice. Add to the fact that Maxwell's numbers, while impressive, were done while playing on the team that had the 2nd most wins in the entire AHL, while Eller's team was not that good (9th in the West conf) Eller leading his team in scoring in his first year in NA is much more impressive then Maxwell's numbers despite him missing almost a year of development in the dub to injury.

montreal is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:52 PM
  #163
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
When our GM say he think Eller will start the year in MTL, you really think it mean nothing and he's not NHL ready?
I think what it means is that the GM in question is trying to convince some angry fans that he acquired a good caliber player at least in a trade involving the team's playoffs MVP.

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:53 PM
  #164
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
But you can't compare them. Eller was groomed in the Danish hockey program and then moved to the SEL. It was his first year in North America, playing on the smaller ice. Add to the fact that Maxwell's numbers, while impressive, were done while playing on the team that had the 2nd most wins in the entire AHL, while Eller's team was not that good (9th in the West conf) Eller leading his team in scoring in his first year in NA is much more impressive then Maxwell's numbers despite him missing almost a year of development in the dub to injury.
I hope you are right, but we'll see next year I guess.

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:54 PM
  #165
saints96
Registered User
 
saints96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I also argued in other threads that we should sign Moore, Malhotra or Cullen to fill that hole on the 3rd line, and surprisingly, nobody accused me of racism and of "wanting them only because they are Canadians". But of course, wanting a player from Quebec is very suspicious around here... It's just impossible here to say anything good about a French Canadian player without being accused of racism.
but you fail to realize that Eller is ''plugging'' that whole. Theyre gonna develope him to eventually become a 2nd or first line center. And id rather see a young kid with lots of potential develope to eventually become a number 1 or 2 center than a 33 year old who is passed his prime, who isnt getting any younger and who's performance and point production will realistically decline as the years go by.

saints96 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:55 PM
  #166
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Subban was absolutely dominant in the AHL. Eller has Ben Maxwell's numbers in the AHL.

Don't you think we should also consider a player's AHL performance before we determine if he's "NHL ready"??? I think we should.
Unfair.
Eller wasn't playing for the powerhouse Bulldogs. The fact is that he easily finished as the top scorer on a weaker Peoria team that scored almost 40 fewer goals than Hamilton.

Fozz is online now  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:56 PM
  #167
InglewoodJack
Registered User
 
InglewoodJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Châteauguay
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,859
vCash: 1340
He would have been a good acquisition, but with Boyd, Lapierre, Eller, Pyatt, White all capable bottom 6ers, there's just no room, and all of those guys were taken before free agency started.

InglewoodJack is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:56 PM
  #168
DDs not undersized
Former Partisan duCH
 
DDs not undersized's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand
Posts: 3,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
but you fail to realize that Eller is ''plugging'' that whole. Theyre gonna develope him to eventually become a 2nd or first line center. And id rather see a young kid with lots of potential develope to eventually become a number 1 or 2 center than a 33 year old who is passed his prime, who isnt getting any younger and who's performance and point production will realistically decline as the years go by.
And what if it doesn't work? What if Eller isn't that much NHL ready yet, after all? What's your Plan B? Trading a draft pick to get a center at mid season, or just accepting that our team only have 2 scoring lines again?

DDs not undersized is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:57 PM
  #169
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I think what it means is that the GM in question is trying to convince some angry fans that he acquired a good caliber player at least in a trade involving the team's playoffs MVP.
So now Gauthier care about what the fans think?? Wasn't you who start a thread about how Gauthier didn't care about what fans want?

Eller have a place in the Habs roster face it

Quarantesix is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:57 PM
  #170
saints96
Registered User
 
saints96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I think what it means is that the GM in question is trying to convince some angry fans that he acquired a good caliber player at least in a trade involving the team's playoffs MVP.
the st louis organization said the same thing and they couldnt care less about our angry fans.

saints96 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:58 PM
  #171
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
And what if it doesn't work? What if Eller isn't that much NHL ready yet, after all? What's your Plan B?
What if Gomez and Belanger get into a fight at scotty's house right before the season starts and upsets team chemistry? What's your plan B?

overlords is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 02:58 PM
  #172
saints96
Registered User
 
saints96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
And what if it doesn't work? What if Eller isn't that much NHL ready yet, after all? What's your Plan B?
and what if it doesnt work with belanger? Whats your plan B with him? If.. if is a big word...How about saying what if he (eller) will work out! Try being positive for a change.

saints96 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 03:00 PM
  #173
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Well considering he disagreed with you, I'm guessing that's not where he wanted to go. But as I predicted earlier, you were going to come in and fix Partisan's position in order to defend you response to me. Putting words in other people's mouths is what you do best. You write well, I see it all the time with university students, you are good passing around stuff that isn't there.
Which part? I don't see any disagreement with what may/may not make Belanger a better option for the 3rd line, as I never even engaged him along that line of discussion. I've already clarified my point on "importance" vs "talking point", so I assume that clarified things a bit.

And I appreciate the compliment (re: writing well). I haven't been a university student for well over a decade, but as a teacher it's good to know that your communication skills are still sharp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yet partisan thought that Boyd not making the playoffs was a valid argument as to why he wasn't a good third line center(Even though he's been in the playoffs in both his nhl seasons as a third line center). Also follow the entire dialogue before you pick one part out of context. Look at why I posted the Stanley Cup question.
If I'm the first person to somehow miss one sentence in a thread full of well over 100 multi-paragraph replies, then I apologize. I did initially at least skim every post, but I guess I missed where he discredited Boyd's potential contribution based mainly on his lack of a Cup ring or post season success. He has suggested other players for the role who also lack the title "champion", so perhaps that got auto-filtered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I agree.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 03:01 PM
  #174
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
and what if it doesnt work with belanger? Whats your plan B with him? If.. if is a big word...How about saying what if he (eller) will work out! Try being positive for a change.
beat you to it

overlords is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 03:01 PM
  #175
Max Levine
Registered User
 
Max Levine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
But we only have 11 forwards + Darche really locked into the lineup. With $1.7M left to spare if Price gets $3M.

Do you think ALL of those players will meet expectations? Do you think we will never have any injuries?

I don't really get it. There is room to add a Belanger/Moore without in any way affecting those other players. They will earn their ice or fail to, and it is only to our benefit if it turns out that Belanger/Moore is better than them and hence ends up playing more for us.

It is indeed really only the likes of Desharnais, Maxwell, White, Pacioretty who are affected. Yet there is still possibly a spot open to them, and there WILL still be injury opportunities, even then. They are all waiver exempt. I don't think we should be giving anybody a chance. It's up to them to seize it. I don't think any of them is better than Belanger/Moore at the present time. And our team should be prioritizing the present. It won't hurt any of those players to start in the minors again, if it comes to that. In fact, I'd lean towards saying it would be better for them anyway, since with or without Belanger/Moore, they'd still just 12th/13th forwards with us, and the added development time in the minors can never hurt.

Although it's all still a little bit silly to argue in too much detail about all this, since it still hinges on the perhaps-never-realized hypothesis that Belanger/Moore become desperate enough to take bargain salaries from us.
Oh! I don't think it is so hypothetical to suggest Belanger/Moore would have to settle for lower salaries. The issue is your intention in hiring them. Why would you bring in Moore/Belanger, even for a fraction of the price, if you intend to play them on the 4th line? You'd have to have a need on a 3rd checking line to hire them. I mean, surely, they must plan this. They can't hire someone thinking: "Well, just in case anything happens". The need has to be specific.

The only plan that would make Belanger/Moore a Habs would have to project Eller as a winger on the top 6. Which would mean that either Pouliot or AK would be relegated or left aside. I doubt this is their intention.

As we speak, you got Eller, Boyd, Moen, Lapierre, Darche and Pyatt on the bottom 6 along with White, Maxwell, Desharnais and Pacioretty with an outside chance. Seven of them are centers or experienced as such, the main reason you would hire Belanger/Moore. Then the question becomes: is Belanger/Moore so talented that you'd be willing to avoid giving a youngster a chance to develop in the NHL and maybe becoming a better forward mid-season?

I like what Dominic Moore brought to this team. But with a guy like Eller in the roster, I think the checking line should be pushed back to the 4th line. Bergeron/Moore would then become expendable.

Max Levine is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.