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Canucks Re-Sign F Mason Raymond to 2-Year, $5.1m Deal ($2.55m/yr cap hit)

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Old
07-26-2010, 10:22 PM
  #151
lindgren
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Originally Posted by CommonAnomaly View Post
not a third of his goals. Irregardless you would have to know absolutely nothing about hockey to suggest the notion that sammys style meshes with the sedins. Because the simple fact is that it doesnt , if anything he hinders them. Sammy doesnt play a cycle game , its not his MO. Whats difficult to understand about that? Sedins play the cycle below the hashmarks, while sammy is better suited to a rush/perimeter line. If vigneault puts sammy with the sedins for anything longer than 10 games i will be the first one protesting outside gm place asking for his head on a stake.

This inability of yours to understand positional play disturbs me. There is a big difference between rush/cycle lines. Big difference between lines that play below the circles and ones that play a perimeter game. I dont know how you dont get this. Look at where samms shots come from during the regular season , id say about 90% come from outside the hashmarks...... perimeter shots. Then take look at where burrows shots come from , since he adopts to the sedins style , majority are below the hashmarks...... its really not that complicated.
You suggest that anyone can produce with the Sedins (Bernier?) to counter the argument that Salo's production with them means nothing, then you suggest that the issue is not production but style of play. If Samuelson and the Twins produce as a line just as effectively as Burrows and the Twins do, your argument that he disrupts their style of play means little.

Oh yeah, also, I should say that if you disagree with me, then you know nothing about hockey. That statement always adds a lot of content to the discussion and really clinches the debate. Or, if you disagree, that means that you simply don't understand, because, of course, reasonable disagreement with my position is impossible.


Last edited by lindgren: 07-27-2010 at 09:49 PM.
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Old
07-26-2010, 10:26 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
There is no requirement that you must bring a healthy player off LTIR - if you are unable or unwilling to clear cap space he stays.
Hmmm, well that surprises me. Seems like a pretty simple way to circumvent the cap if you need to. It would allow you to stash a guy on LTIR until the deadline, maybe give your prospects a look in the meantime, or audition two guys (SOB vs AA with Mitchell stashed on LTIR for example).

Is it the same for placing a guy on it in the first place, or are there medical requirements that must first be met?

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07-26-2010, 10:34 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by CommonAnomaly View Post
Except for the fact that sam shoots the puck too often and disrupts the sedins cycle game. I dont care how much success they had in international competition , sam is not a cycle game player. He disrupts the cycle game , which is why you WONT see him with the sedins for consecutive games this season. Book it.
Imo your misrepresnting Sammy's game. Yes he shoots a lot and shoots from every where, but its not like he's a blackhole who simply puts his head down and shoots no matter what. But instead of chipping the puck into the corner or throwing it back to the point when there's no easy play, he puts the puck at the net. Personally, I like having a shooter play with the twins. It tends to help keep them out of those stretches where all their puck possesion is cycling in the corner.

That's something Burrows does well also. Not by shooting as much, but by breaking out of the cycle and getting open going to the net.

Both are good iptions that throw a little different look at defences. I expect we'll see plenty of both riding Sedin-gun thriugh the season.

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07-26-2010, 10:37 PM
  #154
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I agree that Samuelsson's game isn't naturally a cycle game that meshes with the Sedins, but it's going to the other extreme to put on blinders and say that just because two different styles are on the ice, then it doesn't work, it won't happen, "book it", and ignore the results. The fact is that when Samuelsson and the Sedins have been put together, they have shown the ability to make it work, not amount of "but that's not what the theory about cycle versus rushing says in the textbook" changes what happens in the real world.

Burrows is my preferred player with the Sedins, and I'm open to others, but Samuelsson with the Sedins works, and shouldn't make one cringe. I actually give full credit to the Sedins, they have this freak-of-nature ability to make things work with most players with a decent level of talent and intelligence that are put with them, even if it's not naturally they're style of play.

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07-26-2010, 10:43 PM
  #155
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Solid, fair deal for an underrated two way winger. I'm hoping he progresses even further putting up around 60+ points, atleast. Good job by Gillis to avoid letting Raymond's contract go into arbitration.

I am happy, now get rid of bieksa, MG!

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07-26-2010, 11:39 PM
  #156
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Was really happy to see this earlier today.

A great price for us, and outstanding that they avoided a nasty arbitration hearing.


The best part of all this, is that with that extra ~$500k saved from what the general expectation was of around $3M, combined with the LTIR cushion of Salo out for a number of months...Gillis should actually have a bit of room to bring in a legitimate 3rd line Winger.

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Old
07-27-2010, 12:10 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonAnomaly View Post
not a third of his goals. Irregardless you would have to know absolutely nothing about hockey to suggest the notion that sammys style meshes with the sedins. Because the simple fact is that it doesnt , if anything he hinders them. Sammy doesnt play a cycle game , its not his MO. Whats difficult to understand about that? Sedins play the cycle below the hashmarks, while sammy is better suited to a rush/perimeter line. If vigneault puts sammy with the sedins for anything longer than 10 games i will be the first one protesting outside gm place asking for his head on a stake.

This inability of yours to understand positional play disturbs me. There is a big difference between rush/cycle lines. Big difference between lines that play below the circles and ones that play a perimeter game. I dont know how you dont get this. Look at where samms shots come from during the regular season , id say about 90% come from outside the hashmarks...... perimeter shots. Then take look at where burrows shots come from , since he adopts to the sedins style , majority are below the hashmarks...... its really not that complicated.
You're so off base. The best part is you think that somehow your outlandish statement is fact.

Sammy shoots too much for your liking? Guess what? The Sedins don't shoot enough, that makes him the perfect fit.

Sammy is a rush player? You're joking? Sammy protects the puck and wins puck battles. That's what he does. Suggesting that somehow he isn't geared to the cycle game has me questioning whether you know what a cycle is.

The Sedin's don't need a certain "style" player to play with, they just need a good player. They need a guy that can make a play so he isn't killing the cycle all the time, which is why Sammy/Burrows work and Bernier did not. It's also a huge deal for them to play with d-men that can get involved, because a 5 man cycle is how you score goals in the NHL today.

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Old
07-27-2010, 12:17 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You're so off base. The best part is you think that somehow your outlandish statement is fact.

Sammy shoots too much for your liking? Guess what? The Sedins don't shoot enough, that makes him the perfect fit.

Sammy is a rush player? You're joking? Sammy protects the puck and wins puck battles. That's what he does. Suggesting that somehow he isn't geared to the cycle game has me questioning whether you know what a cycle is.

The Sedin's don't need a certain "style" player to play with, they just need a good player. They need a guy that can make a play so he isn't killing the cycle all the time, which is why Sammy/Burrows work and Bernier did not. It's also a huge deal for them to play with d-men that can get involved, because a 5 man cycle is how you score goals in the NHL today.
Nailed it.
Also willing to take the other side of the bet that Sammy "won't play conscutive games with the twins".

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Old
07-27-2010, 08:32 PM
  #159
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Finally get to write on this after having known about it whilst driving on the road for 10 hours. :p

LOVE this deal. I was predicting $2.75m/$2.8m for Raymond, so to see him come in under that--on a multi-year deal where we retain his RFA rights at the end, no less--is huge. A $2.55m cap hit for a player like Raymond is awesome, and I think it's fantastic that Gillis got us done. Our top six is locked up for at least two years now which is awesome sauce to go along with our goaltending and our top four(Ballard-Hamhuis-Edler-*Ehrhoff) and Luongo. Ehrhoff is the only question mark, but if Gillis can manage to make him take a reasonable salary--with Salo coming off the books and Bieksa potentially as well--this team is looking very good for the long term.

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Old
07-27-2010, 08:52 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
Hmmm, well that surprises me. Seems like a pretty simple way to circumvent the cap if you need to. It would allow you to stash a guy on LTIR until the deadline, maybe give your prospects a look in the meantime, or audition two guys (SOB vs AA with Mitchell stashed on LTIR for example).
Wasn't this a move NJ Lou pulled a few times? Or was that just Philly with Rathje/ Hatcher? Can't quite remember. He's had some issues with the cap for a supposed brilliant guy - Mogilny, Malakhov, summer 2010...hasn't had much/any playoff success either.

I guess Schneider was an example of this last year too.

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Old
07-27-2010, 09:10 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Finally get to write on this after having known about it whilst driving on the road for 10 hours. :p

LOVE this deal. I was predicting $2.75m/$2.8m for Raymond, so to see him come in under that--on a multi-year deal where we retain his RFA rights at the end, no less--is huge. A $2.55m cap hit for a player like Raymond is awesome, and I think it's fantastic that Gillis got us done. Our top six is locked up for at least two years now which is awesome sauce to go along with our goaltending and our top four(Ballard-Hamhuis-Edler-*Ehrhoff) and Luongo. Ehrhoff is the only question mark, but if Gillis can manage to make him take a reasonable salary--with Salo coming off the books and Bieksa potentially as well--this team is looking very good for the long term.
you rang?

I agree, I don't think Gillis could have done a whole lot better this off season. This is a very solid team going into next season, better then last year definitely, and I can't think of a group in the teams history that this group isn't definitively better then.

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Old
07-28-2010, 10:29 AM
  #162
Rob Zepp
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Wasn't this a move NJ Lou pulled a few times? ...hasn't had much/any playoff success either.
Lou and the Devils haven't had much playoff success?!?! Uh, OK. Winning the Stanley Cup a few times isn't "much playoff success"?

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07-28-2010, 10:33 AM
  #163
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The Flyers have stashed Mike Rathje on LTIR for the past 5 seasons, it's served them pretty well...

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07-28-2010, 10:36 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Finally get to write on this after having known about it whilst driving on the road for 10 hours. :p

LOVE this deal. I was predicting $2.75m/$2.8m for Raymond, so to see him come in under that--on a multi-year deal where we retain his RFA rights at the end, no less--is huge. A $2.55m cap hit for a player like Raymond is awesome, and I think it's fantastic that Gillis got us done. Our top six is locked up for at least two years now which is awesome sauce to go along with our goaltending and our top four(Ballard-Hamhuis-Edler-*Ehrhoff) and Luongo. Ehrhoff is the only question mark, but if Gillis can manage to make him take a reasonable salary--with Salo coming off the books and Bieksa potentially as well--this team is looking very good for the long term.
I am with you on all of this. And I have faith, based on Gillis' performance these past two years, that he will sign Ehrhoff to a reasonable deal as well.

That seems to me, in this post lockout world of uber parity, all we can ask for in a GM. Give us a chance to win...and our GM seems to have ensured that for the next five years or so.

Now that Raymond has been signed, and once the dust clears on Bieksa, we'll just need to see some fine tuning along the way. As a Canuck fan since 1970, it's going to take some getting used to cheering for a perennial contender.

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Old
07-28-2010, 12:18 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Lou and the Devils haven't had much playoff success?!?! Uh, OK. Winning the Stanley Cup a few times isn't "much playoff success"?
I think he meant since the cap has been implemented. Lou has had a terrible time managing the cap.

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Old
08-02-2010, 03:17 PM
  #166
Rob Zepp
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I think he meant since the cap has been implemented. Lou has had a terrible time managing the cap.
A few of the "old school" guys like Lou and Sutter have seemingly acted as if there was no CAP or that it is a passing fad.....on that there is no question.

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