HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Sather's off-season - impressive

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-27-2010, 06:22 PM
  #101
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,030
vCash: 500
MZA - solid signing, lets see what the kid's got
Girardi - slightly overpaid IMO but I'm fine with it
Prospal - good deal
Biron - very good deal
Christensen - would've prefered 1 year deal but I'm glad he's back
Frolov - good deal, relatively cheap
Boogey - I love the addition of Boogeyman but I do not like the terms at all

Now he just needs to resign Staal.

6/7 right is not bad I guess. Much better than I expected.

darko is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:23 PM
  #102
GaborikEqualsGod1995*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
NO IT'S NOT!!! You know what's the worst? Constantly being terrible. Not constantly being mediocre. Geez.
Yes it is. Mediocrity sucks. There's a better chance of getting better with constantly being terrible. Mediocre, no.

12-15 place is better than 7-10 for this team RIGHT NOW.

GaborikEqualsGod1995* is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:25 PM
  #103
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
NO IT'S NOT!!! You know what's the worst? Constantly being terrible. Not constantly being mediocre. Geez.
But according to hfboards, a bunch of terrible years and high picks ensure success. Right?

Tank master central always on forums. I remember in 05-06 when we were winning a bunch of people were pissed because we were losing a good draft pick.

Fitzy is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:28 PM
  #104
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyIsDifferentHer View Post
Yes it is. Mediocrity sucks. There's a better chance of getting better with constantly being terrible. Mediocre, no.

12-15 place is better than 7-10 for this team RIGHT NOW.
Tell that to the teams that show up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eason_droughts

Kel Varnsen is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:30 PM
  #105
HockeyBurd*
 
HockeyBurd*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
NO IT'S NOT!!! You know what's the worst? Constantly being terrible. Not constantly being mediocre. Geez.
Constantly? Mmmm... I guess that's true. Of course if your trapped in a constant state of either, it could be argued that it hardly matters anyway. Then again I have been unable to fully delude myself into believing the "anything can happen" myth. Though I do try.

However, I didn't say constantly mediocre. I just said mediocre. Being terrible and getting a lottery pick for it is a hell of a lot better than being mediocre and getting nothing for it. That's not to be confused with me advocating "tanking on purpose". That's too unrealistic to even discuss. I was just addressing your point. I would love for them not to be the mismanaged laughing stock that they have become. Maybe some day lightning will strike and a savior will come.

HockeyBurd* is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:33 PM
  #106
Chief
Registered User
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NY, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
Haha no one did cartwheels dude calm down. People are happy he didn't hamstring the team with an 8 mil per deal or a 5 mil per Frolov or Volchenkov deal. But people it still clearly comes through people hate Sather and he sucks. he got lucky this off-season. I say fire him before he reverts back to his old ways in a year or two.

For this year he filled a lot of team needs. This was a good off season. Now Dubs, Cally, Artie and MZA won't carry the load for secondary scoring b/c we also have Prospal, EC, Frolov. Those guys are still developing maybe with the exception of Cally and they need some help otherwise it could hamper their progress. How much longer can Cally keep playing 2nd line minutes out of place?

If you particularly didn't like some of the moves fine I understand hesitation about Girardi, the Mcllrath pick, signing Prospal...but anyone with intelligence realizes that being happy with this off season is warranted. You can make a valid arguement either way which means both sides should be respectful and refrain from begging for . This is not a help situation. The guy who predicts a cup this year...? Ok you can help at him. But no one is doing that.
Was the cartwheels comment going overboard? I dunno, when people are giving Sather an "A" and others call his performance" impressive", I have to scratch my head. I'm not going to say he had a horrible off season, that's not my point but it certainly wasn't great. He really didn't do much at all except for stuff any NHL GM should have been able to do. I actually like the Girardi signing but how much credit am I supposed to give a GM for signing an RFA, top 4 Dman, with no option except arbitration? Am I supposed to think it was a great signing to bring back Prospal or to get a backup goalie?

Awright, I'm not going to beat a dead horse anymore.

Chief is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:36 PM
  #107
GaborikEqualsGod1995*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
Tell that to the teams that show up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eason_droughts
I said RIGHT NOW. We need one more elite prospect in the system. It would be best for this team NOW to finish off with a top-5 pick. Obviously they won't do it on purpose, but it would help more than it would hurt.

GaborikEqualsGod1995* is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 06:48 PM
  #108
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,094
vCash: 500
It's been proven over and over again that a competent management can win and still draft well. Detroit is just one example. As is New Jersey.

Firstly, tanking is just shameful and downright silly. I'd never sign up to watch my team attempt to lose just so they can "draft well". Let's not forget that all 30 teams get a 1st round pick.

Second, you risk the chance of developing a losing habit and environment around your club. This can lead to digressions up and down the line-up. This can lead to players wanting a fresh start. It becomes a mental thing.

Third, with one of the best goalies in the game (possibly the best right now) it's a shame to waste more milage. Henrik Lundqvist isn't getting any younger and is in his prime years right now. He has and is going to play tremendous hockey right now. The same can be said about Gaborik who is also within the same age range.

But of course we have the tank crew going full force and endorsing lazy tactics just to get a top 5 pick.

hpNYR is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:16 PM
  #109
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,789
vCash: 500
Awards:
I think it has been a good off season thus far. We'll be a competitive team each night while working more kids into the lineup and developing the prospects. I'm absolutely fine with the way things have gone.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:37 PM
  #110
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,086
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Actually a bit shocked to see this thread coming from you, pld.
lol, well, in order for me to not be a hypocrite, I have to give credit to a GM when they have done some good work.

To some, myself included, there is still a ton of work to do, and that is a very fair opinion and assessment.,

However, unlike in the 9 previous seasons, he's actually done somethings this off-season that has made the team better now and long-term.

I still hate him, but I'm not blinded by that hate

pld459666 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:44 PM
  #111
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrikTheKing30 View Post
To all the pessimists:

In your eyes, what could Sather have realistically done differently this off-season to make you consider it a success?
Retired!

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:46 PM
  #112
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Retired!
ZING!!!!

jas is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:52 PM
  #113
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,683
vCash: 500
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 08:58 PM
  #114
JerseyRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
nobody wants the team to fail....but i sure as hell am not going to get excited with what we have now. we had an opportunity to turn our team around with 1 big gesture, or to play the kids, get a high draft pick, and turn it around slowly...right now were just treading water.
The problem is we are not the pIles. As much as I've wanted this team to tank a couple of seasons to load up on draft picks its not going to happen. I don't believe that Dolan won't allow it. You've got to admit that this team has brought in more youth over the last 2 or 3 seasons then we've seen in Ranger blue since the late 80's. In spite of whats been said on this board Sather has put together a plan and stuck to it the last 3 seasons. In the end he hasn't done much worse then the Jersey genius, Lou Lams since the lockout (judging by # of playoff appearances and results in the playoffs).

JerseyRangers is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 09:06 PM
  #115
KingWantsCup
Super Saiyan Hank
 
KingWantsCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,292
vCash: 50
I am no Sather fan, but he's made all the right moves essentially. The only move I had some trouble dealing with was trading Sanguinetti for a second round pick. I think we really could have used him, but I'll hold judgment on this move until I see what Sather does with that pick. He could trade it for a top line center in a package so if that's the case then I feel real good. Even so all things considered he's really been very good this off season, knock on wood.

KingWantsCup is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 09:15 PM
  #116
JerseyRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanRanger View Post
Kovalchuk! DUH!

Honestly, I would have liked to see Slats stick to a plan. The moves Slats made prior to today signaled, to me at least, that Slats had accepted that the team wasn't going to be very good next year and was willing to take his lumps. Now that hes signed Frolov, I don't know.

I'm not gonna cry over a one year deal at good money, but again I wish that hed just stick to a plan for once instead of throwing a mystery box at us, again.
How has he not stuck to a plan? In an interview a few years back he mentioned that he intended on building from the net out. Over the last 3 years his teams have brought in one home grown d-man per season that played significant minutes. Some may complain about Girardi and that he's overpaid. Hockey people that I've talked to all say the same thing. Girardi is very young yet continues to slowly develop into a solid #4 d-men. As one of my guys told me (who coached D1), "put Girardi in a Devils uniform in that system and the Rangers nation would be moaning about how we can't develop a player like that." The system has been changed on him almost every year he's been here. Add to that he's played with a different partner each season and you've got a very steep learning curve. Finally, this same person told me that d at the pro level is the hardest position to learn. Most people forget but Scott Stevens didn't become a solid defensive d-man until his 7th NHL season. Pronger had almost as long of a learning curve. The battles he had with Keenan in St. Louis are legendary. Now I am not saying Girardi has that upside. All that I am saying is that writing off a d-man after 3 seasons in the NHL is beyond stupid.

Anyway, Sather has put a plan in place and pretty much stuck to it. We've got one of the youngest teams in the NHL and over the next couple of years should add another 3 or 4 kids to that team. If that isn't building with youth then I'm not sure what is!

JerseyRangers is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 10:14 PM
  #117
BlueLooksGood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 54
vCash: 500
This offseaon has been good so far. I'll wait and see what he does when we have a sizable amount of cap space again...

BlueLooksGood is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 10:21 PM
  #118
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I am no Sather fan, but he's made all the right moves essentially. The only move I had some trouble dealing with was trading Sanguinetti for a second round pick. I think we really could have used him, but I'll hold judgment on this move until I see what Sather does with that pick. He could trade it for a top line center in a package so if that's the case then I feel real good. Even so all things considered he's really been very good this off season, knock on wood.
here is the Canes D

Pitkanen, Joni
Gleason, Tim
Corvo, Joe
Babchuk, Anton
McBain, Jamie
Harrison, Jay
Carson, Brett

i guess he has a chance to beat out one of the bottom 3

but he wouldnt of made the NYR which says alot. the 2nd can be used for a pick or trade to bring a C at the deadline

Vitto79 is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 10:25 PM
  #119
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
How has he not stuck to a plan? In an interview a few years back he mentioned that he intended on building from the net out. Over the last 3 years his teams have brought in one home grown d-man per season that played significant minutes. Some may complain about Girardi and that he's overpaid. Hockey people that I've talked to all say the same thing. Girardi is very young yet continues to slowly develop into a solid #4 d-men. As one of my guys told me (who coached D1), "put Girardi in a Devils uniform in that system and the Rangers nation would be moaning about how we can't develop a player like that." The system has been changed on him almost every year he's been here. Add to that he's played with a different partner each season and you've got a very steep learning curve. Finally, this same person told me that d at the pro level is the hardest position to learn. Most people forget but Scott Stevens didn't become a solid defensive d-man until his 7th NHL season. Pronger had almost as long of a learning curve. The battles he had with Keenan in St. Louis are legendary. Now I am not saying Girardi has that upside. All that I am saying is that writing off a d-man after 3 seasons in the NHL is beyond stupid.

Anyway, Sather has put a plan in place and pretty much stuck to it. We've got one of the youngest teams in the NHL and over the next couple of years should add another 3 or 4 kids to that team. If that isn't building with youth then I'm not sure what is!
I actually agree with all of this.

What I don't agree with is the plethora of one and two year stopgaps we've seen this offseason that serve no purpose other than to make the team quasi-competitive next year. It retards development of the kids if it turns out that they are ready and insures that we never get a draft pick where we can get a true offensive difference maker. I have no problem finishing in the middle of the pack if it's on the back of the kids, but if it's on the back of short term mercenaries, it does no good towards the ultimate goal of winning the Cup - and potentially could impede the process since it prevents us from drafting the elite offensive talent we'll need to go with the goalie and the stable of homegrown Dmen.

Now, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe tomorrow we'll hear that Slats has acquired Brassard and Hodgson in back to back deals for a total of Gilroy, Prospal, Christensen and the Caps' second rounder. Or maybe Slats is stockpiling assets that he might actually sell at the deadline this year. But as it is, I simply don't think it's in the team's best interest to be accumulating B-level players on one-two year deals to alternate 3 game win streaks with 3 game losing streaks towards an eventual finish around 15-18th in the league.

I've been using this phrase a lot lately: the lesser of two evils. So far this offseason, Slats has given us the lesser of two evils. I'm glad it hasn't been the greater. But that doesn't mean I'm going to applaud.

C-. It would've been a straight C, but the Boogaard insanity cost him half a grade.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 10:36 PM
  #120
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I actually agree with all of this.

What I don't agree with is the plethora of one and two year stopgaps we've seen this offseason that serve no purpose other than to make the team quasi-competitive next year. It retards development of the kids if it turns out that they are ready and insures that we never get a draft pick where we can get a true offensive difference maker. I have no problem finishing in the middle of the pack if it's on the back of the kids, but if it's on the back of short term mercenaries, it does no good towards the ultimate goal of winning the Cup - and potentially could impede the process since it prevents us from drafting the elite offensive talent we'll need to go with the goalie and the stable of homegrown Dmen.

Now, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe tomorrow we'll hear that Slats has acquired Brassard and Hodgson in back to back deals for a total of Gilroy, Prospal, Christensen and the Caps' second rounder. Or maybe Slats is stockpiling assets that he might actually sell at the deadline this year. But as it is, I simply don't think it's in the team's best interest to be accumulating B-level players on one-two year deals to alternate 3 game win streaks with 3 game losing streaks towards an eventual finish around 15-18th in the league.

I've been using this phrase a lot lately: the lesser of two evils. So far this offseason, Slats has given us the lesser of two evils. I'm glad it hasn't been the greater. But that doesn't mean I'm going to applaud.

C-. It would've been a straight C, but the Boogaard insanity cost him half a grade.
I couldn't agree more.

Fact is, if teams like the Hawks, Pens, Caps, Ducks, etc. have shown us anything over the past few years it's that the way to win in the new NHL (with its cap) is with young, cheap, top-line talent.

Are we are Frolov away from the Cup? No chance. Frolov at best takes us from 10-15 to 7-10. And continually making moves to find a way to finish 7-10 isn't gonna get us any closer. One or at most two years of sacrifice to get our already deep prospect pool a Backstrom, Kane, Stamkos, Duchene, or Seguin is what will get us there. That is why I am sick of continual stop-gaps.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 10:45 PM
  #121
dtrap
Registered User
 
dtrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,720
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dtrap
So basically the three biggest complains about the offseason are:

1) We didn't get Kovy

This has been beat to death...I'm not touching it.

2) We signed Boogeyman

Again this has been beat to death...but the first time he ****s someone's day up for running Hank everyone will love him and his contract

3) We didn't get a first line center yet

Now this is the one that bugs me. Tell me pre-tell oh hockey expects...where the hell is our magical first line center coming from. There were none available as free agents and to trade for one we are giving up something big (Staal, Dubi, Stepan, Kreider). So how exactly was Sather supposed to get us one this offseason? And don't tell me Rozy, Gilroy and a 3rd rounder....let's be realistic here. We aren't getting Savard, Richards or any other center worth their salt for that.

Bottom line...he got us some good pieces and put us in a position to play the kids but still be competitive. You don't HAVE to tank a-la the Penguins to win in this league.

dtrap is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 11:07 PM
  #122
BlueLooksGood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 54
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
I couldn't agree more.

Fact is, if teams like the Hawks, Pens, Caps, Ducks, etc. have shown us anything over the past few years it's that the way to win in the new NHL (with its cap) is with young, cheap, top-line talent.

Are we are Frolov away from the Cup? No chance. Frolov at best takes us from 10-15 to 7-10. And continually making moves to find a way to finish 7-10 isn't gonna get us any closer. One or at most two years of sacrifice to get our already deep prospect pool a Backstrom, Kane, Stamkos, Duchene, or Seguin is what will get us there. That is why I am sick of continual stop-gaps.
Stop-gaps? Are Redden, Gomez, Drury stop-gaps?

The truth of the matter is we shot for the moon three times and subsequently failed all three times.

That's why we are a 10-15 team as you say. It's not because of Frolov.

You'd be singing a different tune if those players were actually worth a damn.

And honestly, I'd rather be a fringe team than an Islanders clone any day of the week.

BlueLooksGood is offline  
Old
07-27-2010, 11:25 PM
  #123
donpaulo
Capt Barry Beck
 
donpaulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: nihon
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,602
vCash: 500
I think team toughness has been an issue for the past few years. With Prust and Boogaard, plus avery and callahan not to mention dubinsky I think there is enough sandpaper.
While Boogaard's contract is high, I believe he was offered more but took the rangers offer. I think he is a step up from Shelly and Brashear (he better be at that price) and hopefully he can improve his skating so that he isn't a liability on the ice.
Let someone try and run Henke now. The minute Boogaard gets serious payback on any player taking liberties with a NY player is when rangers fans will just love this guy to death. While his contract is perhaps too much that almost always happens with UFA and the problem isn't Boogaard's so much as its The WADE and DRURY's contracts.
My hope is that Boyle actually gets that he has to play with drive and a nastiness factor that was absent from his game. With his size and skill level he can make a nice career for himself in the NHL with some added ooomf to his game. If he can also improve his PK ability it would be an added bonus.
My main complaint about Slats moves so far is that the bottom six are effectively set thus blocking out any moves from the AHL. It has to hurt the "kids" chances when their commitment and willingness to follow managements calls only gets crushed by guys like Boyle, Prust and Boogaard blocking the path the NHL.
I think MZA is a wildcard. He could be the next mark pavelich or he could be the next nigel dawes. Either way we are going to find out soon enough. Really looking forward to seeing his skill on the powerplay. I think the Frolov signing hurts him a little as he moves down to the 2nd line with the extra man.
I am not sold that McDonaugh will make the club, but if the WADE is gone or Roszival traded I guess he will have a very good shot to make the 3rd pairing. Perhaps playing with Gilroy might be a decent option.
Doubt we see Stepan this year, barring injury or him lighting it up in the AHL. Besides perhaps playing with Grachev, they can develop some chemistry and learn each others tendencies.
I think we might see a Potter or Sauer make the club over McDonaugh but either way its a new face. At least lets hope so anyway.

So I don't think we are going to see Henke getting run as much, which is a good thing. That Biron can hopefully spell the King and not ruin NY's chances at the 8 spot (because that is about where they can expect to finish) I personally would have preferred to see Chad Johnson in NY but such is life.

Hopefully Avery can get back to his usual production, Drury too. Callahan I am expecting to improve. Anisimov I am hoping will improve his on ice awareness, avoid injury to his head and pick up more points on the PP 2nd unit. Dubinsky I think can continue to improve, so I like the look of the club in the aspect that better players will hopefully be coming over the next season or three.

I think the blueline will improve too. The Staal contract situation is a concern but hopefully they get it done before camp. Holding out is going to hurt the club.

donpaulo is offline  
Old
07-28-2010, 12:53 AM
  #124
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think it has been a good off season thus far. We'll be a competitive team each night while working more kids into the lineup and developing the prospects. I'm absolutely fine with the way things have gone.
where exactly?

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-28-2010, 01:12 AM
  #125
GaborikEqualsGod1995*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
where exactly?
Ryan McDonagh, MZA, possibly Stepan/Grachev. This is a young team. Two rookies is more than enough.

GaborikEqualsGod1995* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.