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Kovalchuk Deal Rejected

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Old
07-21-2010, 08:41 PM
  #176
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The more I'm reading about this, the more I think Lou did this on purpose. He said plain as day that this shouldn't be allowed, but it's in the CBA. Now, they apparently knew this would happen before the press conference. I think Lou is playing mindgames with the league and Kovalchuk.

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07-21-2010, 08:43 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The more I'm reading about this, the more I think Lou did this on purpose. He said plain as day that this shouldn't be allowed, but it's in the CBA. Now, they apparently knew this would happen before the press conference. I think Lou is playing mindgames with the league and Kovalchuk.
Please don't think that. Now the Devils fans will make it seem like Lou is even more of a "god"

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07-21-2010, 08:49 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Please don't think that. Now the Devils fans will make it seem like Lou is even more of a "god"
Can you imagine if Lou was our GM?


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07-21-2010, 08:50 PM
  #179
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Can you imagine if Lou was our GM?

Who needs Lou? We got Shooter!

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07-21-2010, 08:55 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Please don't think that. Now the Devils fans will make it seem like Lou is even more of a "god"
Yeah, I was reading through the Devils board after all this was announced and they have like a weird man-love worship thing for him. They treat him like a freaking deity. Even going as far to say that "the NHL is going to war with Lou" and "Lou will win and the NHL will regret this".

Seriously, how naive can you be? Even their topic talking about this is titled "the beating of war drums" or some **** like that. Some of them are even comparing Kovalchuk's contract to Pronger's.

If I were a Devils fan I would understand why this happened and I'd be happy with it actually. I can't stand these kinds of deals and the deal they gave Kovalchuk was an atrocious abortion of a contract. Besides, the reality of it is that Kovalchuk will still likely sign with the Devils, but just at a couple years less then before.

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07-26-2010, 12:50 PM
  #181
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=328558

NHLPA files a grievance on behalf of Kovalchuk.

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07-26-2010, 12:53 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=328558

NHLPA files a grievance on behalf of Kovalchuk.
They pretty much have to file a grievance. Otherwise it would be bigger news that they didn't.

This is not really exciting either way, lol.

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07-26-2010, 01:05 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
They pretty much have to file a grievance. Otherwise it would be bigger news that they didn't.

This is not really exciting either way, lol.
But now it means that they have to wait for a arbitrator which won't be happening anytime soon and by that time Kovalchuk's options may disappear. I'm not saying they will but he might not want to wait that long.

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07-26-2010, 01:10 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
They pretty much have to file a grievance. Otherwise it would be bigger news that they didn't.

This is not really exciting either way, lol.
It actually probably would have made sense for Kovy to ask them not to and just re-work the contract a bit... but, no, that would be too easy.

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07-26-2010, 01:28 PM
  #185
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It actually probably would have made sense for Kovy to ask them not to and just re-work the contract a bit... but, no, that would be too easy.
What can you do? People love drama. Just look at Reality TV and Lebron James.

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07-26-2010, 01:58 PM
  #186
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i agree it seems lou did this on purpose, but i don't have any idea what the benefit is.

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07-26-2010, 02:06 PM
  #187
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Sometimes I hate the NHLPA. This is one of those times.

Kovalchuk got 17 years partly because that's his favorite number and I'm guessing he's really superstitious about it.

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07-26-2010, 02:08 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
i agree it seems lou did this on purpose, but i don't have any idea what the benefit is.
Lou did it to lower the cap hit. You frontload the contract so he makes 95 of 102 million in the first 10 of 17 years, and after those 10 years, and he has a NTC, you waive him or have him opt out of the contract. That way he's gotten his big bucks.

95/10 = 9.5 million
102/17 = 6 million

Lou is simply doing a work around to drop his cap hit dramatically. I don't agree with it, but if it's legal by the CBA, do it.

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07-26-2010, 02:16 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Lou did it to lower the cap hit. You frontload the contract so he makes 95 of 102 million in the first 10 of 17 years, and after those 10 years, and he has a NTC, you waive him or have him opt out of the contract. That way he's gotten his big bucks.

95/10 = 9.5 million
102/17 = 6 million

Lou is simply doing a work around to drop his cap hit dramatically. I don't agree with it, but if it's legal by the CBA, do it.
I think that he was referring to Lou doing this even though he knew it wouldn't be allowed. May be wrong though.

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07-26-2010, 02:19 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
I think that he was referring to Lou doing this even though he knew it wouldn't be allowed. May be wrong though.
Thought about that, wasn't sure either, figured I'd spell it out anyway. I think Lou did it to show it can be done. It's also a good way to show the system is flawed.

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07-26-2010, 02:23 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Thought about that, wasn't sure either, figured I'd spell it out anyway. I think Lou did it to show it can be done. It's also a good way to show the system is flawed.
I actually don't think so (entirely). If you read the relevant section on this, the arbitrator is allowed to re-write the contract and give it back to both parties and they're stuck with it (they have a 3-day window to work something else out, but it appears they get the contract the arbitrator gives 'em if they don't). Was going over this with a friend that reads a lot of legal contracts, and that's what we take away from it.

That being said, I don't think the arbitrator could/would alter the length/amount, just shuffle the numbers around a bit. So, the Devs may end up with a more palatable contract overall at the same cap hit. For 6M a year, I'd be happy with Kovy... for at least the next 6-8 years.

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07-26-2010, 02:26 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Lou did it to lower the cap hit. You frontload the contract so he makes 95 of 102 million in the first 10 of 17 years, and after those 10 years, and he has a NTC, you waive him or have him opt out of the contract. That way he's gotten his big bucks.

95/10 = 9.5 million
102/17 = 6 million

Lou is simply doing a work around to drop his cap hit dramatically. I don't agree with it, but if it's legal by the CBA, do it.

i know its to lower the cap hit, but it's so incredibly blatant that i have a hard time believing he thought the league would allow it

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07-26-2010, 02:27 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I actually don't think so (entirely). If you read the relevant section on this, the arbitrator is allowed to re-write the contract and give it back to both parties and they're stuck with it (they have a 3-day window to work something else out, but it appears they get the contract the arbitrator gives 'em if they don't). Was going over this with a friend that reads a lot of legal contracts, and that's what we take away from it.

That being said, I don't think the arbitrator could/would alter the length/amount, just shuffle the numbers around a bit. So, the Devs may end up with a more palatable contract overall at the same cap hit. For 6M a year, I'd be happy with Kovy... for at least the next 6-8 years.
Alright, thanks for clarification. Didn't realize arbitrator could alter the contract. Thought it was review then straight accept/reject.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
i know its to lower the cap hit, but it's so incredibly blatant that i have a hard time believing he thought the league would allow it
Sometimes the best approach is to put your head down and try to barrel through.

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07-26-2010, 02:31 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Alright, thanks for clarification. Didn't realize arbitrator could alter the contract. Thought it was review then straight accept/reject.



Sometimes the best approach is to put your head down and try to barrel through.

indeed. if the arbitrator keeps the contract the same length, but just shifts the money around, i'd say this was a big pointless waste of time, and opens an ugly, weird-smelling can of worms for the NHL

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07-26-2010, 02:33 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
indeed. if the arbitrator keeps the contract the same length, but just shifts the money around, i'd say this was a big pointless waste of time, and opens an ugly, weird-smelling can of worms for the NHL that will be looked at during negotiations for the next CBA.
Just a minor edit there.

I think they should make it 14 years. Make the last 4 years the 7 mill/4 = 1.75 mill per, Cap hit 7.29. Seems reasonable for Kovalchuk.

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07-26-2010, 02:43 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Lou did it to lower the cap hit. You frontload the contract so he makes 95 of 102 million in the first 10 of 17 years, and after those 10 years, and he has a NTC, you waive him or have him opt out of the contract. That way he's gotten his big bucks.

95/10 = 9.5 million
102/17 = 6 million

Lou is simply doing a work around to drop his cap hit dramatically. I don't agree with it, but if it's legal by the CBA, do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
I think that he was referring to Lou doing this even though he knew it wouldn't be allowed. May be wrong though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Thought about that, wasn't sure either, figured I'd spell it out anyway. I think Lou did it to show it can be done. It's also a good way to show the system is flawed.
Like I said before, Kovalchuk has thing for the number 17 so that had something to do with it.

What I'm guessing happened:

Devils/Lou: "So, 15 year deal, almost just like the Hossa deal?"

Kovalchuk: "That sounds good, but I have a fetish for the number 17 so let's just add a couple years on the end of it. It's not like I'll play through the whole contract so I don't care if I'm getting paid league minimum or not."

Devils/Lou: "Cool, lol.

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07-26-2010, 02:46 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Just a minor edit there.

I think they should make it 14 years. Make the last 4 years the 7 mill/4 = 1.75 mill per, Cap hit 7.29. Seems reasonable for Kovalchuk.
that could do.

however, since the current CBA doesnt expire until september 2011, doesnt that mean everyone will resign as many of their stars to cap dodging contracts as possible?

i mean, the time is good with carter and giroux, but the league is not going to be pleased.

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07-26-2010, 02:53 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
that could do.

however, since the current CBA doesnt expire until september 2011, doesnt that mean everyone will resign as many of their stars to cap dodging contracts as possible?

i mean, the time is good with carter and giroux, but the league is not going to be pleased.
Which is why the league is going to have to be very careful with how they handle this.

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07-28-2010, 01:33 PM
  #199
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Remember when I said before that the NHL investigated the Hossa and Pronger deals so it's not like this is the first time they made these contracts a concern? Well, apparently I was right about the NHL using those investigations as a base for their argument, except not in the way that I thought they would. The cases are still technically open and the NHL can still technically investigate (although I'm not sure what they can actually do at this point) the Hossa, Luongo, and Pronger contracts. Here's a quote from the Trade boards topic:

Quote:
A number of media outlets have reported in the past that the Luongo, Hossa and Pronger investigations remain open.

Until the NHL issues a formal written determination as provided for in the CBA they will remain open.

And even if they were closed they could be re-opened because there is no time limitation on an Article 26 investigation and report to an arbitrator alleging a cap circumvention.

As it currently stands the claim that the NHL is handicapped by registering the Hossa, Luongo and Pronger deals may work in favour of the NHL who will say we had and still have concerns about those contracts.

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07-28-2010, 01:43 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Remember when I said before that the NHL investigated the Hossa and Pronger deals so it's not like this is the first time they made these contracts a concern? Well, apparently I was right about the NHL using those investigations as a base for their argument, except not in the way that I thought they would. The cases are still technically open and the NHL can still technically investigate (although I'm not sure what they can actually do at this point) the Hossa, Luongo, and Pronger contracts. Here's a quote from the Trade boards topic:
Actually, I think that's a big problem for the NHL. Why?

1) You have concerns about those contracts, but no proof that actual cap circumvention plans (player not playing the finals years of the the contract is intended).

2) You have concerns about this contract, but no proof that actual cap circumvention plans exist (presumably, if they do then it's an easy ruling).

Why aren't you simply registering the Kovalchuk contract and investigating it until you have evidence like the others?

Ultimately their argument has to rest on something concrete to be really legitimate, no matter how "right" they are that the contract is BS.

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