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Tortorella: If Staal has no contract by training camp, he shouldn't be there(in tc)

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Old
07-29-2010, 09:25 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
I'm a big Richards fan, and think he's the perfect fit on the 1st line. But, I just don't see how it gets done. And, given that he's a year away from free agency, I really would not want to part with important assets to get him.

Now, I'd love to see Sather find a way to pawn Drury off on a team like LA or Toronto, (being that Burke is such a huge fan - Drury for Finger/D'Amigo...come on, Burkie, you love his leadership), then I'd consider moving Grachev in such a deal for Richards. But, I do not see that as a likely possibility.
Yeah that's why I pay no attention to Richards really. Cap wise it doesn't make sense. Because of that everyone always seems to want to throw Rozsival in the deal. I like Rozi and think he gets way too much grief around here and I'm constantly defending him, but he's not going to be foundation of a trade for Brad Richards.

I'd love to pawn Drury off as well, but I think a lot of us underestimate what this organization sees as his value. We all hate the intagibles crap, but that matters to Torts and the team. I think the organization views it as they've got at least two more years of him and maybe in the last year of his deal they'll be able to move him, or he'll be a veteran defensive fourth line center who's there to teach the kids who have surpassed him (a role he's moving into already).

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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
There is nothing Torts can do/say.

A section of the fanbase will just always go after the coach, especially the Avery loyalists.

ODC, im surprised you are upset that there is less of a spot for a player you said would bu lucky to top 30 points even in a top 6 role.

I'm not a big Torts fan and am a huge Avery loyalist but I have nothing against what Torts says most of the time.

My problem is I feel like a lot of the time he's all talk, and I think he's too emotional sometimes.

He preaches things and then in the heat of the moment on the ice he can't control himself and becomes completely hypocritical and goes against everything he says.

I thought he was awful last year, but we'll see how it goes this year.

I like the fact that he's committed to the youth and is keen on building this organization and not just worrying season to season and being in the playoffs.

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07-29-2010, 09:28 AM
  #27
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What the hell is taking so long with Staal? Either offer him a 4 year deal around 4 or take some UFA years at a 5.5 cap hit. That'll be a bargain by year #3 into the deal.

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07-29-2010, 09:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
so in this senerio Dubinsky is getting sent to hartford? Or is he sakting as a defenseman now?
Hah wow I commented on that and didn't even notice. I was so focused on him thinking Grachev will make the team over MZA and commenting on the Avery-Dru-Cally line.

I do really like that line btw. I just don't think that with the forwards we have, and the team we'll eventually end up with, that there's really any way Avery is not on the fourth line.

I think he's gotta center that fourth line. It might not be ideal for him, but if it means keeping a guy like MZA on the roster and getting rid of Boyle it's got to be done.

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07-29-2010, 09:32 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
What the hell is taking so long with Staal? Either offer him a 4 year deal around 4 or take some UFA years at a 5.5 cap hit. That'll be a bargain by year #3 into the deal.
You just answered your own question. There's no way the Rangers are going to offer him a deal that takes him right into UFA.

And Staal and his agent are going to try to get the most money possible now if they're going to allow the Rangers to buy out UFA years.

It's not really a hard concept.

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07-29-2010, 09:34 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
so in this senerio Dubinsky is getting sent to hartford? Or is he sakting as a defenseman now?
Goalie



My bad... Totally skipped my mind. Team has one too many LWers and I HATE placing guys at positions that are not natural. And Avery shouldn't be on the 4th line, plus Boogaard will be playing so that is impossible as well.

Gonna be interesting to see the odd man out.

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07-29-2010, 09:36 AM
  #31
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Folks, please keep it on topic.

All line combo talk should go here please:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=803179

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07-29-2010, 09:37 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
You just answered your own question. There's no way the Rangers are going to offer him a deal that takes him right into UFA.

And Staal and his agent are going to try to get the most money possible now if they're going to allow the Rangers to buy out UFA years.

It's not really a hard concept.
I understand the UFA part, but there's no way he's going to be a 7m d-man.

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07-29-2010, 09:39 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
2 edged sword. patience or missed opportunities ?

in our haste to make sure we dont move yutes for vets, we tend to overvalue the kids and that isnt a recipe for success either.

if the right player is available, and that player makes us better now and in the future, you make the move. when it comes to making deals, if it means you surrender young players to get better.... you do it.

keeping all the kids sounds great, problem is.... it could guarantee us being mediocre for long stretches. im not down for that at all.
what opportunities have been missed?

Kovalchuk? I honestly dont think it was ever a real option, or a practicle move on our part

This offseason had "disaster" written all over it with the crappy free agent group and Sather at the helm

to walk away with only one head scratching decision (and a <$2mil one at that) is certainly a victory

the fact of that matter is that the jury is still out on a number of the kids, its my opinion that their using this up comming season (or maybe 2) to evalute who the really feel is going to hack it in the future and thus what holes they are going to need to fill from outside

thats the definition of patience

and to your point about mediocity...i'd argue that rashly signing and trading for the best player available at that particular time with very little resemblence of a plan is a far better recepie for mediocrity. And history agrees with me

They rangers are taking a good hard look at what they have so they can make informed smart decisions when the oppritunity presents itself (...in theory at least)

and in my honest opinion, any real fan should be thrilled

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07-29-2010, 09:43 AM
  #34
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I wonder what center Sather is targeting...

Im starting to think it's Savard...

Savard + ??? for Kaberle -- then Savard & Finger is swapped to us from Toronto for Drury +???

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07-29-2010, 09:49 AM
  #35
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Nothing in this interview that I didn't expect...

The veteran thing (not just handing them spots) came up last yr as well... the only difference is that last yr. we were under the reg. season cap and this yr we're not... which means somebody (some $) isn't gonna make it.

As for Staal... didn't Torts say the same about Dubi? He wanted him in camp but wanted him to NOT be a distraction.

I just hope Torts can set some lines in pre-season/camp that stick.

I am a bit surprised that he said Fro would be with Gabby... I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess time will tell. More and more it appears to me that someone we suedo-like is gonna get dealt... possibly Dubi.

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07-29-2010, 09:51 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
I understand the UFA part, but there's no way he's going to be a 7m d-man.
No you're right, he's not going to be. But we're talking about a very interesting RFA situation here.

You've got a kid who is the best defenseman on his team at 23 years old. He's also one of the better defenseman in the league already (on the defensive side of the puck), and his agent knows that if he were a UFA right now (which he's not) that he'd be getting some good coin.

The agent is going to try and use everything he can to his advantage (though he does not have much of a leg to stand on) and Sather is going to sit back and say fine I call your bluff, I'll wait it out longer than you because you have no leverage.

The deal will get done. It might not get done til close to training camp, but this is typical posturing.

There's no sense right now for either side to be rushing into it. Sather's just going to wait them out, and eventually Staal and his agent will call and they'll find a middle ground. Staal isn't going to sit out this year. If he did I'd lose my lunch.

Just typical posturing. nothing to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
what opportunities have been missed?

Kovalchuk? I honestly dont think it was ever a real option, or a practicle move on our part

This offseason had "disaster" written all over it with the crappy free agent group and Sather at the helm

to walk away with only one head scratching decision (and a <$2mil one at that) is certainly a victory

the fact of that matter is that the jury is still out on a number of the kids, its my opinion that their using this up comming season (or maybe 2) to evalute who the really feel is going to hack it in the future and thus what holes they are going to need to fill from outside

thats the definition of patience

and to your point about mediocity...i'd argue that rashly signing and trading for the best player available at that particular time with very little resemblence of a plan is a far better recepie for mediocrity. And history agrees with me

They rangers are taking a good hard look at what they have so they can make informed smart decisions when the oppritunity presents itself (...in theory at least)

and in my honest opinion, any real fan should be thrilled

I agree and I think that it IS different because this group of prospects to me is very highly touted. I hate the HF boards mentality but with the state the organization is in right now this is the right move.

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07-29-2010, 09:56 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I wonder what center Sather is targeting...

Im starting to think it's Savard...

Savard + ??? for Kaberle -- then Savard & Finger is swapped to us from Toronto for Drury +???
Eklund!?!?

Come on hp.

Sather can target who ever he wants, it's not going to get done without us losing a valuable player on the roster or top prospects and picks.

Not worth it at this stage of the organization.

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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Nothing in this interview that I didn't expect...

The veteran thing (not just handing them spots) came up last yr as well... the only difference is that last yr. we were under the reg. season cap and this yr we're not... which means somebody (some $) isn't gonna make it.

As for Staal... didn't Torts say the same about Dubi? He wanted him in camp but wanted him to NOT be a distraction.

I just hope Torts can set some lines in pre-season/camp that stick.

I am a bit surprised that he said Fro would be with Gabby... I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess time will tell. More and more it appears to me that someone we suedo-like is gonna get dealt... possibly Dubi.
Based on WHAT Dubi is going to get dealt?

I'm SO SICK OF THIS.

For the last time, HE WASN'T TRADED FOR DANY HEATLEY. He's a part of this core, and he's getting better every year. He's a home grown kid who is going to put up around 50 points and he's a heart and soul guy.

Just because we have a lot of forwards does not mean that Dubi is going ANYWHERE.

What it means is that players who are expendable might be going somewhere.

NOT freakin' Dubi.

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07-29-2010, 10:19 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post

Based on WHAT Dubi is going to get dealt?

I'm SO SICK OF THIS.

For the last time, HE WASN'T TRADED FOR DANY HEATLEY. He's a part of this core, and he's getting better every year. He's a home grown kid who is going to put up around 50 points and he's a heart and soul guy.

Just because we have a lot of forwards does not mean that Dubi is going ANYWHERE.

What it means is that players who are expendable might be going somewhere.

NOT freakin' Dubi.
You can be sick of it all you want. I've never stated it before so I guess I should appologize to you?!

Not for nothing, because I'm not gonna argue with you about Dubi's place on this team or why he will or will not get traded, but just because he didn't get traded for Dan Heatley a yr ago... doesn't mean he won't get traded this season for someone else. The situations are mutually exclusive.

IF Dubi is a left wing and NOT a center AND FROLOV IS PLAYING WITH GABBY... his career in NY just took a hit... that's a fact.

I like him just as much as you probably do and DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM DELT. But facts are facts.

IF the plan is to land a #1 center... a trade will have to be made... the left side is a source of strength (along with the young D) on this team... meaning one of those groups will be the trade bait.

Draw your own conclusions.

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07-29-2010, 10:26 AM
  #39
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One interesting note & bright side:



Could not agree more. Down the middle a legit top 2 line center, and a veteran presence on the back end. Been preaching this since the beginning of the offseason. Secondary scorer(frolov), top 2 line centermen, veteran d-men. 1 of the 3 is done.

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/
Yea but at what cost?

Its irrational to make a another one of those "quick fix" moves "just because" they MIGHT sneak into the playoffs. At the cost of the future.

Savard's contract is asinine.

Richards will command far too much both in trade and in a new contract.

Ribiero isn't worth it.

None of these guys are worth setting back the building of a TEAM from within, like they're doing.

Tortorella should stop making excuses, if he fails to get this roster to the playoffs, again, he should be fired.

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07-29-2010, 10:30 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea but at what cost?

Its irrational to make a another one of those "quick fix" moves "just because" they MIGHT sneak into the playoffs. At the cost of the future.

Savard's contract is asinine.

Richards will command far too much both in trade and in a new contract.

Ribiero isn't worth it.

None of these guys are worth setting back the building of a TEAM from within, like they're doing.

Tortorella should stop making excuses, if he fails to get this roster to the playoffs, again, he should be fired.
Savard's cap hit is 4.007...and you are nuts if you think this is a DEFINITE playoff team.


Last edited by hpNYR: 07-29-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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07-29-2010, 10:38 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Savard's cap hit is 4.007
Staal will be in camp, no worries , he's too important and they will get it done just depends on how long

if they sign Staal at 4.5 and then can move Gilroys 1.7 and somehow dump Brashear it is the only way Savard can fit at that amount

First things first is they have no clue how much cash they will have left. I mean they could have a deal in place already but they cant make a move without Staal. signed up........Dominoes!!!,haha

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07-29-2010, 10:42 AM
  #42
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Get Staal signed and call it a summer!

What I think we will see

6yr 27mil 4.5per

What I hope we see

8yr 36mil 4.5per

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07-29-2010, 10:43 AM
  #43
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Staal will be in camp, no worries , he's too important and they will get it done just depends on how long

if they sign Staal at 4.5 and then can move Gilroys 1.7 and somehow dump Brashear it is the only way Savard can fit at that amount

First things first is they have no clue how much cash they will have left. I mean they could have a deal in place already but they cant make a move without Staal. signed up........Dominoes!!!,haha
Very possible lol. Usually the management is very quiet, but this offseason they admit to not being done for quite some time now. Even after the Frolov signing.

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07-29-2010, 10:45 AM
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You can be sick of it all you want. I've never stated it before so I guess I should appologize to you?!

Not for nothing, because I'm not gonna argue with you about Dubi's place on this team or why he will or will not get traded, but just because he didn't get traded for Dan Heatley a yr ago... doesn't mean he won't get traded this season for someone else. The situations are mutually exclusive.

IF Dubi is a left wing and NOT a center AND FROLOV IS PLAYING WITH GABBY... his career in NY just took a hit... that's a fact.

I like him just as much as you probably do and DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM DELT. But facts are facts.

IF the plan is to land a #1 center... a trade will have to be made... the left side is a source of strength (along with the young D) on this team... meaning one of those groups will be the trade bait.

Draw your own conclusions.
It's irrelevant if you've ever said it before. If you read the boards plenty of people throw it out there and the entire basis of the argument is "uhh we have a lot of players now."

The Dany Heatley factor is huge because it was leaked information, and it proves a point about just how high they value Dubinsky.

Tell me Riche, what player are they getting back for Dubinsky that's better than Heatley? That's what I'd like to know.

They wouldn't do it for Heatley. It was leaked information. THEY WOULDN'T TRADE HIM FOR A 40-50 GOAL SCORER AND AN 80-100 POINT GUY.

Tell me on what planet does it make any sense for them one year later to move him for anything less than that?

Oh because Heatley wasn't a center? In some cases you might be able to argue that. But not when the guy you could've gotten is a perennial 40-50 goal scorer and 80-100 point player.

The situations are not as mutually exclusive as you and others would like to think.

Frolov? The guy we signed to a one year deal? Yeah maybe he'll have a good season. Who is to say we re-sign him? Who is to say he doesn't receive a better offer from someone else?

The left side is stacked right now. You're right. But it is no longer a "source of strength" if you move Dubinsky.

Frolov and Prospal on 1 year deals. One's 28 and the other is 35. Brandon Prust means we can afford to trade Dubi? Sean Avery?

Just because we have depth at a spot doesn't mean you're going to trade THE BEST OF THE GROUP who is a home grown kid and 24 freaking years old and getting better every year.

I will draw my own conclusions, and unlike everyone who assumes Dubi is on his wait out, they're actually based on paying attention to the situation and using some common sense.

That's why I'm sick of it. And I'm not trying to attack you I just don't see how there is any logic in it.

I also disagree that his career in New York took a hit because he'll be playing left wing.

I think he showed he has more ability on LW and considering the rate he's already progressed at and everything he brings to the table, I only see him continuing to get better.

If anything I think him playing LW means his career in New York might be solidified.

For all the second tier players underneath him, well they might be the ones who are in a rough spot.

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07-29-2010, 10:58 AM
  #45
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IF Dubi is a left wing and NOT a center AND FROLOV IS PLAYING WITH GABBY... his career in NY just took a hit... that's a fact.
A fact?It's a fact that's your statement is completely incorrect. But I don't think that's what you meant.

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07-29-2010, 11:00 AM
  #46
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Fans of the 80s oilers said the same thing about Gretzy lol

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07-29-2010, 11:01 AM
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MZA prefer's the RW, so the signing of Frolov doesn't impact him too much. It could mean issues for either Christiansen or Boyle if the Rangers intend on having Prospal as the #1 center and Anisimov the #2.

Frolov - Prospal - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Ansimov - MZA
I don't get why people think that Christensen will not be centering one of the top 2 lines. He only started playing well when he was centering one of the top 2 lines.

He is a highly skilled player and needs to play with other skilled players to succeed. End of story.

Otherwise, I'm pumped to see how MZA plays.

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07-29-2010, 11:01 AM
  #48
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Fans of the 80s oilers said the same thing about Gretzy lol
What did they say?

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07-29-2010, 11:08 AM
  #49
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It's irrelevant if you've ever said it before. If you read the boards plenty of people throw it out there and the entire basis of the argument is "uhh we have a lot of players now."

The Dany Heatley factor is huge because it was leaked information, and it proves a point about just how high they value Dubinsky.

Tell me Riche, what player are they getting back for Dubinsky that's better than Heatley? That's what I'd like to know.

They wouldn't do it for Heatley. It was leaked information. THEY WOULDN'T TRADE HIM FOR A 40-50 GOAL SCORER AND AN 80-100 POINT GUY.

Tell me on what planet does it make any sense for them one year later to move him for anything less than that?

Oh because Heatley wasn't a center? In some cases you might be able to argue that. But not when the guy you could've gotten is a perennial 40-50 goal scorer and 80-100 point player.

The situations are not as mutually exclusive as you and others would like to think.

Frolov? The guy we signed to a one year deal? Yeah maybe he'll have a good season. Who is to say we re-sign him? Who is to say he doesn't receive a better offer from someone else?

The left side is stacked right now. You're right. But it is no longer a "source of strength" if you move Dubinsky.

Frolov and Prospal on 1 year deals. One's 28 and the other is 35. Brandon Prust means we can afford to trade Dubi? Sean Avery?

Just because we have depth at a spot doesn't mean you're going to trade THE BEST OF THE GROUP who is a home grown kid and 24 freaking years old and getting better every year.

I will draw my own conclusions, and unlike everyone who assumes Dubi is on his wait out, they're actually based on paying attention to the situation and using some common sense.

That's why I'm sick of it. And I'm not trying to attack you I just don't see how there is any logic in it.

I also disagree that his career in New York took a hit because he'll be playing left wing.

I think he showed he has more ability on LW and considering the rate he's already progressed at and everything he brings to the table, I only see him continuing to get better.

If anything I think him playing LW means his career in New York might be solidified.

For all the second tier players underneath him, well they might be the ones who are in a rough spot.
You're jumping to some pretty large conclusions here pal... the least of which is my belief that Dubi will be traded. I never said that. I said "More and more I feel like a trade will be made and we'll lose someone we like... like Dubi"

Avery is untradeble. If he was making 2M (like we're paying him) then he'd be less so... but any team taking him would be on the hook for 4M. Prospal is old and coming off knee surgery (making him expendable IMHO) so he won't get dealt in ANY deal for a center. If someone of value has to go... to get someone of value (a center) I feel Dubi MAY be one of those at risk to go.

I'm gonna leave it at that.

BTW... the "leaked" info you speak of... Was it just Dubi for Heatley? To my reccollection it wasn't. Meaning the deal wasn't right for us... especially with Gabby coming. You can't tell me that Dubi, plus someone for a number 1 center doesn't make more sense... perhaps?

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07-29-2010, 11:11 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
what would you like Torts to say that he hasn't/isn't?
I'd rather have him talked about what he knows, instead of speculating about what Sather will do with players (Frolov) and to players (Staal). I'd like him to say a few words about what kind of hockey he would like his team to play, does he still believe in offensive system ; what PP problem did we have last season and how we going to improve production, i.e. personnel issue vs. system issue. Something along those lines. In other words, I'd like to hear the coach as opposed to front office figure.

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