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Tortorella: If Staal has no contract by training camp, he shouldn't be there(in tc)

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Old
07-29-2010, 12:52 PM
  #76
Riche16
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Who?

Cost: Too much if they're a legitimate top center.

Can they fit him: No

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...
No one knows who... but Torts has stated as much right?

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07-29-2010, 12:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
I love how everyone thinks the only time your a contender for the cup is if your the favorite from the start of the season...or even the favorite around playoff time... Let's just give the Stanley Cup to the President Trophy winner....

Now go ahead and throw your statistics at me. I doesn't change anything. Things don't happen the same every year. An 8th seed and 7th seed just played for who wins the east. What do your statistics say about the probability of that?
Well, I'm sure statistics would say the chances are probably low. But your right all you need is a ticket to the prom to become Prom King.... LGR!

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07-29-2010, 01:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Conversely, he said veterans would not be assured roster spots just because they were veterans with perhaps a hefty contract. (Redden)
I'll believe it when I see it. Just another way to appease angered fans.

By camp watch Torts start Redden and proclaim "He's impressed in camp. He's earned a spot until further notice", or something along those lines.

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07-29-2010, 01:14 PM
  #79
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You're jumping to some pretty large conclusions here pal... the least of which is my belief that Dubi will be traded. I never said that. I said "More and more I feel like a trade will be made and we'll lose someone we like... like Dubi"

Avery is untradeble. If he was making 2M (like we're paying him) then he'd be less so... but any team taking him would be on the hook for 4M. Prospal is old and coming off knee surgery (making him expendable IMHO) so he won't get dealt in ANY deal for a center. If someone of value has to go... to get someone of value (a center) I feel Dubi MAY be one of those at risk to go.

I'm gonna leave it at that.

BTW... the "leaked" info you speak of... Was it just Dubi for Heatley? To my reccollection it wasn't. Meaning the deal wasn't right for us... especially with Gabby coming. You can't tell me that Dubi, plus someone for a number 1 center doesn't make more sense... perhaps?
Look, your reasoning is sound. It's not a far fetched thought. He's sensitive about the Dubinsky talks so take it with a grain of salt. Dubinsky's biggest issue on the ice is consistency... he disappears for too long some times. For the team structure, he's no longer looking like the center that we need but the wing that we are cluttered in. If he plays wing this season, it's pretty much a guarentee that someone gets moved. You went through the list of likely candidates and probabilities so you understand.

The rumor was we offered Dubinsky and Roszival. They wanted Staal too. Staal was the sticking point, not Dubinsky. The 'leak' was Murray complaining that they can't even land a 10 goal scorer for Heatley which we assume to mean Dubinsky.

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07-29-2010, 01:48 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Weird - its like its an interview and you can only answer the questions presented to you
It was an interview.



Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Torts isn't talking about what Sather is doing "with" Frolov, he's talking about where he, as a coach, is looking to play him.
He is talking what Sather promised Frolov when he signed him at discount - Gaborik line mate. He confirms that as a coach he will follow his boss directions, although at the moment he has a little clue on what player Frolov is. Staal status is not his business, period. And so forth... You can replace "Tortorella" with "Sather" and the entire piece would be just fine.

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07-29-2010, 01:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Problem is it doesn't matter what you think (or anyone else not named Glenn ***-hole Sather for that matter).

There may be no way for Glenny to aquire who he "feels" is a #1C without moving a Dubi, or a Cally or a Grachev, Stepan, Kreider, et all.

Like I said I don't want any of them moved... unless it REALLY makes sense. But it's well out of our hands.
I agree but he has shown extreme restraint lately and that's something not to be overlooked. He hasn't made those types of deals.


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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
I love how everyone thinks the only time your a contender for the cup is if your the favorite from the start of the season...or even the favorite around playoff time... Let's just give the Stanley Cup to the President Trophy winner....

Now go ahead and throw your statistics at me. I doesn't change anything. Things don't happen the same every year. An 8th seed and 7th seed just played for who wins the east. What do your statistics say about the probability of that?
Oh boy Garfinkel, you're on your own with that one. I fought that fight during the playoffs. Go look up the thread titled "why you always try to make the playoffs.."

Just make sure Foxhound doesn't see. He might slit your throat.

I agree with you once you've made the playoffs. Which is why I think you always try. But I don't think that you can be naive and not view the team as a whole in comparison to their competition and try and gauge realistically where you are.

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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
No one knows who... but Torts has stated as much right?
It doesn't matter. He's stating the obvious. That doesn't change the fact that there's really no one out there who we can acquire for a reasonable price. I'm still waiting for someone to name the guy who isn't Brad Richards.

So far we've got concussed Savard for the next seven years at over $4 million on the cap. Sorry, not trading Dubinsky for that.

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07-29-2010, 01:52 PM
  #82
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Posted by robruckus:

"We're not ready to be a Cup contender right now. So you STAY WITH THE KIDS AND PLAYERS LIKE DUBINSKY until they've grown and when the time is right via free agency you acquire one."

IMO the salient point for the Rangers and their fans right now.

We have some good kids on the squad, more on the way, and a guy who has some clue as to how to draft more. Clark has done a great job the last few years.

You really have to be careful and pick your spots in the FA market now. Locking up guys long term for big numbers just does not seem to make sense any longer.

Just keep filling the pipe line with solid prospects and we'll be knocking at the door soon enough.

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07-29-2010, 01:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
I'll believe it when I see it. Just another way to appease angered fans.

By camp watch Torts start Redden and proclaim "He's impressed in camp. He's earned a spot until further notice", or something along those lines.
Even with bonuses rolling over into next year, we only have 1.4 mil in cap space right now. After Staal signs, we'll be about 3 mil over the cap. And that's with 13 forwards and 7 dmen (and Brashear, who obviously won't be on the team, but will count against the cap).

The following players will make 3 mil or more:

Gaborik
Drury
Lundqvist
Redden
Rozsival
Staal
Girardi
Frolov

Drury can't be sent down unless he agrees to it due to his NMC, and there's no way Gabby, Lundqvist, Rozsival, Staal, Girardi or Frolov are getting sent down. That only leaves Redden.

Sending him down would leave us with about 3-3.5 mil which we can use to bring up McD and/or Weise, and the rest for injuries/trades/bonuses.

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07-29-2010, 01:55 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Look, your reasoning is sound. It's not a far fetched thought. He's sensitive about the Dubinsky talks so take it with a grain of salt. Dubinsky's biggest issue on the ice is consistency... he disappears for too long some times. For the team structure, he's no longer looking like the center that we need but the wing that we are cluttered in. If he plays wing this season, it's pretty much a guarentee that someone gets moved. You went through the list of likely candidates and probabilities so you understand.

The rumor was we offered Dubinsky and Roszival. They wanted Staal too. Staal was the sticking point, not Dubinsky. The 'leak' was Murray complaining that they can't even land a 10 goal scorer for Heatley which we assume to mean Dubinsky.
I agree, I am!

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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
It was an interview.




He is talking what Sather promised Frolov when he signed him at discount - Gaborik line mate. He confirms that as a coach he will follow his boss directions, although at the moment he has a little clue on what player Frolov is. Staal status is not his business, period. And so forth... You can replace "Tortorella" with "Sather" and the entire piece would be just fine.

I think you're reading things how you want to there. I'm no Torts fan but he did not say that Sather promised Frolov he'd be playing with Gaborik.

No where in there did he say that.

You can draw conclusions but I don't think you're right at all.

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07-29-2010, 01:59 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Even with bonuses rolling over into next year, we only have 1.4 mil in cap space right now. After Staal signs, we'll be about 3 mil over the cap. And that's with 13 forwards and 7 dmen (and Brashear, who obviously won't be on the team, but will count against the cap).

The following players will make 3 mil or more:

Gaborik
Drury
Lundqvist
Redden
Rozsival
Staal
Girardi
Frolov

Drury can't be sent down unless he agrees to it due to his NMC, and there's no way Gabby, Lundqvist, Rozsival, Staal, Girardi or Frolov are getting sent down. That only leaves Redden.

Sending him down would leave us with about 3-3.5 mil which we can use to bring up McD and/or Weise, and the rest for injuries/trades/bonuses.
Good way of looking at it (especially if you want Redden gone... and who doesn't except that one dude... what was his name again? Oh-yeah! Wade Redden.)

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07-29-2010, 02:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Christensen is such a weird situation. It is odd to me how the detractors refuse to acknowledge how there were games last year where the kid looked incredible.
I mean, flying up the ice, making plays, getting the puck to the net.

I remember games last year where he was the best player on the ice and was creting scoring chances every shift.

Can we expect that from him for a whole season? I have no idea.

But the one thing I think people are underestimating with him is a sense of confidence.

For a kid who had so much promise early in his career and to get bounced around and really struggle everywhere he went, I think it was super rough on him mentally.

Last year we gave him a shot. We brought him back from the dead. He's only 26. And as I said he showed some great flashes last season.

Is he a part of the core going forward? probably not. But it would not surprise me for Erik to have a really good year.

Don't underestimate the importance of confidence in your abilities.
I totally agree, I dont think that he is a first line center by any stretch of the imagination, but he certainly has the skills to be a second liner or boarderline first liner he just needs to put everything together and gain more confidence. He has all the skill he needs if he can just put it together he could be a force on the ice, he showed flashes of it last season and I think he will be able to put it all together this season. I dont like Torts but I think that he knows how to squeeze the potential out of someone willing to let him do the squeezing, and EC can definately be a great example of that.

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07-29-2010, 02:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Even with bonuses rolling over into next year, we only have 1.4 mil in cap space right now. After Staal signs, we'll be about 3 mil over the cap. And that's with 13 forwards and 7 dmen (and Brashear, who obviously won't be on the team, but will count against the cap).

The following players will make 3 mil or more:

Gaborik
Drury
Lundqvist
Redden
Rozsival
Staal
Girardi
Frolov

Drury can't be sent down unless he agrees to it due to his NMC, and there's no way Gabby, Lundqvist, Rozsival, Staal, Girardi or Frolov are getting sent down. That only leaves Redden.

Sending him down would leave us with about 3-3.5 mil which we can use to bring up McD and/or Weise, and the rest for injuries/trades/bonuses.
You heard Torts say that he doesn't like that there's inexperience in the back end, which leaves me to believe he favors to keep Rozy/Redden to shape the d-core.

Which 13 forwards are you referencing? Could this means a combo of MZA/Eminger, and perhaps another player being demoted to free up enough space to keep Redden on the squad? I just can't see Torts going with Rozy as his only "vet" defenseman. Having said that, like everyone else on these boards, I'd love to see the blueshirts rid themselves of Redden's astronimcal cap hit.

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07-29-2010, 02:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
You heard Torts say that he doesn't like that there's inexperience in the back end, which leaves me to believe he favors to keep Rozy/Redden to shape the d-core.

Which 13 forwards are you referencing? Could this means a combo of MZA/Eminger, and perhaps another player being demoted to free up enough space to keep Redden on the squad? I just can't see Torts going with Rozy as his only "vet" defenseman. Having said that, like everyone else on these boards, I'd love to see the blueshirts rid themselves of Redden's astronimcal cap hit.
I know that Staal is still very young and he is still developing, but I would consider him a veteran.

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07-29-2010, 02:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Savard's cap hit is 4.007...and you are nuts if you think this is a DEFINITE playoff team.
I've been saying for months this team probably won't make the playoffs and won't contend.

And yea, Savard's yearly cap hit is low enough because his contract length is RIDICULOUS considering his age and suffering a major head injury. Sorry, it would not be a smart idea to trade valuable assets (most likely at least one of our top prospects and a first round pick) for Savard.

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07-29-2010, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EmDeeZee4MVP View Post
You heard Torts say that he doesn't like that there's inexperience in the back end, which leaves me to believe he favors to keep Rozy/Redden to shape the d-core.

Which 13 forwards are you referencing? Could this means a combo of MZA/Eminger, and perhaps another player being demoted to free up enough space to keep Redden on the squad? I just can't see Torts going with Rozy as his only "vet" defenseman. Having said that, like everyone else on these boards, I'd love to see the blueshirts rid themselves of Redden's astronimcal cap hit.
http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator/index.php

If we send down MZA and Eminger, we'll probably still be a little over, depending on how much Staal gets. And we'll only have 12 forward and 6 dmen. We won't have any spare players in case of injury and no cap space to bring anyone up.

MZA and Gilroy are a possibility, but we'd still have no spares and little cap space to work with. We'll save 100k if Brashear plays in Hartford.

Could Avery get sent down? Possible, but doubtful. No way Boogard, Prospal, Dubi or Cally are sent down. And no one else makes enough that we'd save significant cap space by replacing them.

I really don't see any way Redden will be on this team. If we hadn't signed Frolov, we probably could have still kept him, but now it looks like he's done.

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07-29-2010, 03:16 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I think you're reading things how you want to there. I'm no Torts fan but he did not say that Sather promised Frolov he'd be playing with Gaborik.

No where in there did he say that.

You can draw conclusions but I don't think you're right at all.
No? The coach before seeing player on the ice, not only suggests that he may try him with Gaborik, but will give him "every opportunity" to play with Gabo tells you what?

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07-29-2010, 03:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator/index.php

If we send down MZA and Eminger, we'll probably still be a little over, depending on how much Staal gets. And we'll only have 12 forward and 6 dmen. We won't have any spare players in case of injury and no cap space to bring anyone up.

MZA and Gilroy are a possibility, but we'd still have no spares and little cap space to work with. We'll save 100k if Brashear plays in Hartford.

Could Avery get sent down? Possible, but doubtful. No way Boogard, Prospal, Dubi or Cally are sent down. And no one else makes enough that we'd save significant cap space by replacing them.

I really don't see any way Redden will be on this team. If we hadn't signed Frolov, we probably could have still kept him, but now it looks like he's done.
reddens done.

the top 4 is set.

staal and his new contract
blowzy
girardi
mdz

and the 3rd pair will be 2 of these guys

mcd- hes got the inside track one would think
gilroy- hartford bound im afraid
eminger- 7th man imo
valentenko- darkhorse. hits like a truck and plays nasty/dirty. maybe hes the 6th guy ?

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07-29-2010, 03:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
There is nothing Torts can do/say.

A section of the fanbase will just always go after the coach, especially the Avery loyalists.

ODC, im surprised you are upset that there is less of a spot for a player you said would bu lucky to top 30 points even in a top 6 role.
I'm an Avery loyalist who has no problem with Torts!

That being said, I never blame the coaches. Renney didn't deserve to go, and Torts doesn't deserve the abuse he receives.

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07-29-2010, 03:34 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator/index.php

If we send down MZA and Eminger, we'll probably still be a little over, depending on how much Staal gets. And we'll only have 12 forward and 6 dmen. We won't have any spare players in case of injury and no cap space to bring anyone up.

MZA and Gilroy are a possibility, but we'd still have no spares and little cap space to work with. We'll save 100k if Brashear plays in Hartford.

Could Avery get sent down? Possible, but doubtful. No way Boogard, Prospal, Dubi or Cally are sent down. And no one else makes enough that we'd save significant cap space by replacing them.

I really don't see any way Redden will be on this team. If we hadn't signed Frolov, we probably could have still kept him, but now it looks like he's done.
Thanks for that explanation; it does make me feel a bit better. We'll see when camp rolls around if he's really done. I cannot imagine that going well with Redden, and nor do I see him demanding a trade out of NY because no team would be crazy enough to take on his contract. Should be interesting.

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07-29-2010, 03:41 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I've been saying for months this team probably won't make the playoffs and won't contend.

And yea, Savard's yearly cap hit is low enough because his contract length is RIDICULOUS considering his age and suffering a major head injury. Sorry, it would not be a smart idea to trade valuable assets (most likely at least one of our top prospects and a first round pick) for Savard.
It was rumored that Boston wanted Gilroy and a 2nd. That's not valuable assets by any means.

A team with Savard, Gaborik, Frolov, Dubinsky, Staal, Del Zotto, and Lundqvist in net can contend. Montreal w less elite talent/allstar caliber talent made the ECF.

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07-29-2010, 03:49 PM
  #96
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It was rumored that Boston wanted Gilroy and a 2nd. That's not valuable assets by any means.

A team with Savard, Gaborik, Frolov, Dubinsky, Staal, Del Zotto, and Lundqvist in net can contend. Montreal w less elite talent/allstar caliber talent made the ECF.
I don't see how Slats could've accepted that, considering we still had Redden's contract on the books. If the Rangers indeed do send him down to Hartford, then we have a whole different scenario, however.

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07-29-2010, 04:04 PM
  #97
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Regarding the Dubinsky debates - the nice thing about bringing in a player like Frolov for one year, who has more skill than Dubinsky and will presumably play above him on the top line with Gaborik, is that Dubinsky's numbers will not be artificially inflated during his contract year due to playing on a line he really isn't suited to play on.

This will, hopefully, give him less leverage and make signing him for less money a little easier.

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07-29-2010, 04:13 PM
  #98
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I'd like to see Tort's actual quote as to what he said RE Staal in camp, considering last year when Dubi was holding out, he said that Dubi should be in camp.

Quote:
"Stupid. It's stupid. I'm not going to get into negotiations, but it's stupid," the coach said after four-plus hours of making players sprint in circles on Day1 of his rigorous conditioning tests in Greenburgh. "He's a young man that needs to be in camp, that needs to go through the process of understanding what a pro is. I'm not sure where the thinking's coming from, but I still think players need to think for themselves. I think we blame it on agents all the time - I think his agent's stupid. I'm hoping he realizes that there's teammates here, too. So I'll leave it at that."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...#ixzz0v6lgORUn
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...amp_opens.html

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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Redden's going bye-bye
Drury better watch himself too. Though he does have the C as insurance. If he loses it at some point, it's gonna get bad for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
What the hell is taking so long with Staal? Either offer him a 4 year deal around 4 or take some UFA years at a 5.5 cap hit. That'll be a bargain by year #3 into the deal.
Dubinsky last year had no arbitration and had to wait until he broke down and gave in to what management was offering. Staal is in the same position. He'll get a 1 or 2 year deal and be a RFA next negotiation round too. Then it'll be a deal like Girardi's where you go after UFA years.

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07-29-2010, 04:14 PM
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Regarding the Dubinsky debates - the nice thing about bringing in a player like Frolov for one year, who has more skill than Dubinsky and will presumably play above him on the top line with Gaborik, is that Dubinsky's numbers will not be artificially inflated during his contract year due to playing on a line he really isn't suited to play on.

This will, hopefully, give him less leverage and make signing him for less money a little easier.
Great point.

But hopefully Frolov's addition will take some attention away from the other lines and that could help his numbers too. Probably not anything substantial though, but IF Frolov stays there and is productive... thats a solid little point there.

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07-29-2010, 04:16 PM
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Great point.

But hopefully Frolov's addition will take some attention away from the other lines and that could help his numbers too. Probably not anything substantial though, but IF Frolov stays there and is productive... thats a solid little point there.
Avery, Dubinsky, Callahan could be a nice 3rd line to go against top lines nightly.

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