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Old
07-29-2010, 02:56 PM
  #26
RoyBoyCoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
and Calder.
and Hart.
and Conn Smythe.
But what about Glennie

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Old
07-29-2010, 03:23 PM
  #27
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Lars Eller as a 70 point player would be fantastic imo. I'd be thrilled
Yeah me too. 70 points is a great return for an elite goalie.

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Old
07-29-2010, 03:26 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Yeah me too. 70 points is a great return for an elite goalie.
hahaha if this guy is serious.. i called it.. read my previous post in this thread.

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Old
07-29-2010, 03:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
hahaha if this guy is serious.. i called it.. read my previous post in this thread.
I think he was being sarcastic, I don't see how anyone could have taken that remark seriously

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Old
07-29-2010, 03:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
I think he was being sarcastic, I don't see how anyone could have taken that remark seriously
thats what i was thinking but you never know around here.

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Old
07-29-2010, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
and Calder.
and Hart.
and Conn Smythe.
Are you implying that he won't win the
Art Ross and Rocket Richard ?

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Old
07-29-2010, 04:22 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
I think he was being sarcastic, I don't see how anyone could have taken that remark seriously
Rare to win a Cup without an elite goalie, especially if you don't have any top end talent. Chicago had two #1's, we never will. Price is not elite.

Eller looks like a solid second line center (one day), but 70 points is a reach for a second line center and even if he did hit that, we'd need a goalie.

This is an overflogged idea, but acting like it isn't true doesn't make you a winner either.

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Old
07-29-2010, 04:40 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Rare to win a Cup without an elite goalie, especially if you don't have any top end talent. Chicago had two #1's, we never will. Price is not elite.

Eller looks like a solid second line center (one day), but 70 points is a reach for a second line center and even if he did hit that, we'd need a goalie.

This is an overflogged idea, but acting like it isn't true doesn't make you a winner either.
I disagree. Look at what the elite goalies accomplished last year. Also look at recent cup winners : Marc Andre Fleury elite? Giguere elite?? Cam Ward elite??? Niemi elite???? OSGOOD? You have to go back to pre-lockout era from 2000 to 2003 to find elite goalies winning (Roy, Hasek and Brodeur in succession). You don't need an elite goalie, you need a good goalie in the middle of a hot streak.

A 70pt two way center is much harder to find than a good goalie (and we still have one anyways). I also think its just as likely that Halak stays an elite goalie than Eller becomes a 70+pt first line center. 70pts is a lot btw, I'll be thrilled if he consistantly produces 50 to 60pts.

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Old
07-29-2010, 05:08 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I disagree. Look at what the elite goalies accomplished last year. Also look at recent cup winners : Marc Andre Fleury elite? Giguere elite?? Cam Ward elite??? Niemi elite???? OSGOOD? You have to go back to pre-lockout era from 2000 to 2003 to find elite goalies winning (Roy, Hasek and Brodeur in succession). You don't need an elite goalie, you need a good goalie in the middle of a hot streak.

A 70pt two way center is much harder to find than a good goalie (and we still have one anyways). I also think its just as likely that Halak stays an elite goalie than Eller becomes a 70+pt first line center. 70pts is a lot btw, I'll be thrilled if he consistantly produces 50 to 60pts.
Yeah people don't realize it, and a year ago I didn't either but 70 points in the NHL is alot. Its really something, a great feat, that every team looks for. 70-80 points from Eller, and he would be our star center we've been looking for. A two way center, with his speed, work ethic, etc.... is really hard to come by, and he has alot of potential.

70 points is almost a ppg player, and odds are you watch a game the odds are good You'll see Eller on the score sheet. Thats how good a 70 point player is, they are rare, and very excellent to have in your group.

People wanted a miracle in exchange for Halak, like a 100 point player, etc... Not too long ago Halak was playing back up, and he had 1 great year. He is a good goalie, Im not taking that from him, I think he has the ability to get 40 wins in the NHL, but I do not think he is an elite goalie by any stretch of the word.

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Old
07-29-2010, 05:11 PM
  #35
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Excellent accessment by the Hockey News.

Glad to see I'm not the only one that is so high on Subban + Eller.

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Old
07-29-2010, 05:13 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
lol yes, I agree I was between Ward or Fleury.

I'm just saying those are the type of top 5 goalies in the league imo, top 10 for sure, Halak had one amazing year, and a great playoff run. I think hes a top 15 goalie, whom had just one of those epic seasons.


and If Avtsin gets 1-9 games in the NHL like the blogger suggested I'm gonna be like this

I totally agree, we can say that Halak is top15, if he keeps playing like this. Maybe not at the same level as last year (he'd be, easily, top5), but around 2.50 and 0.915.

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Old
07-29-2010, 06:43 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I disagree. Look at what the elite goalies accomplished last year. Also look at recent cup winners : Marc Andre Fleury elite? Giguere elite?? Cam Ward elite??? Niemi elite???? OSGOOD? You have to go back to pre-lockout era from 2000 to 2003 to find elite goalies winning (Roy, Hasek and Brodeur in succession). You don't need an elite goalie, you need a good goalie in the middle of a hot streak.

A 70pt two way center is much harder to find than a good goalie (and we still have one anyways). I also think its just as likely that Halak stays an elite goalie than Eller becomes a 70+pt first line center. 70pts is a lot btw, I'll be thrilled if he consistantly produces 50 to 60pts.
Not sure where this 70 point stuff came from. I've heard that his top end is the second line and he could very well be a third liner.

I'll agree with Fleury (for now), Osgood and Niemi, but that's about it. The other guys played elite hockey and are proven over time to be elite.

Also, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Chicago had teams that are light years away from anything we will produce. All of those teams have at least three franchise players on them. We have maybe one in Markov. You could make the argument that these teams benefited from being the first teams stacked with high picks in the cap era. But we will never have that luxury.

So goaltending for us needs to be elite imo. And Halak showed flashes of elite talent both during the regular season, at the Olympics and of course in the playoffs where it counts. You can't find goalies with the mix of mental fortitude and talent every day. Carey Price certainly has the talent, but he has big holes in his game. Mentally, I think he's done fine with all he's had to put up with, but the fundamental flaws he has are not shared by Halak (positioning, overplaying, tracking, glove hand and ability to make the big save... also, he does not seem to have the urgency Halak has... Halak is always on top of the puck).

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Old
07-29-2010, 06:53 PM
  #38
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70 points is crazy, but if Eller can play as well as Moore I will be estatic. That was a great rental pick up that turned the 3rd line from CRAP to very good. Great PK'er, forechecker, and put in 0.5 PPG, and then some HUGE playoff goals.

If Eller can do the same contributions & overall make our 3rd line respectable then it will be a huge improvment over last season where it was mostly garbage until Moore came.

Hopefully Eller can be our Jordan Staal for now.

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Old
07-29-2010, 07:27 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
Are you implying that he won't win the
Art Ross and Rocket Richard ?
I got word that he's also got the inside track on the Jack Adams too. Also Gauthier will step down so P.K. can be the GM around mid December.

Regarding the analysis however if you're comparing the impression of this team going into last season to going into this season I would bump the grade up B.

There was a lot of uncertainty last season through out the line up but now for the most part we know what to expect. Our defense core, though more or less the same, should be stronger as we know who works well with who and we also know what to expect from Cammalleri, Plekanec, Gomez, and Gionta.

Going into this season there are questions around Kostitsyn as there were last year as well as Pouliot which the same can be said about if you consider that last year we were talking about Pacioretty and Latendresse. Goal tending is also a point of uncertainty but again it also was last year.

Also Eller should help boost our expected offensive output going into next season and as stated should likely slide into the top six especially if Pouliot or Kostitsyn falter.

Last year we were labelled as a chemistry experiment and rightfully so but this year for the majority of our players I think it's safe to say we have a pretty good idea of how they will perform.

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Old
07-29-2010, 07:51 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Not sure where this 70 point stuff came from. I've heard that his top end is the second line and he could very well be a third liner.

I'll agree with Fleury (for now), Osgood and Niemi, but that's about it. The other guys played elite hockey and are proven over time to be elite.

Also, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Chicago had teams that are light years away from anything we will produce. All of those teams have at least three franchise players on them. We have maybe one in Markov. You could make the argument that these teams benefited from being the first teams stacked with high picks in the cap era. But we will never have that luxury.

So goaltending for us needs to be elite imo. And Halak showed flashes of elite talent both during the regular season, at the Olympics and of course in the playoffs where it counts. You can't find goalies with the mix of mental fortitude and talent every day. Carey Price certainly has the talent, but he has big holes in his game. Mentally, I think he's done fine with all he's had to put up with, but the fundamental flaws he has are not shared by Halak (positioning, overplaying, tracking, glove hand and ability to make the big save... also, he does not seem to have the urgency Halak has... Halak is always on top of the puck).
What a load of crap. Before last season, even worst could've been said of Halak. People here have such friggin short memories. I've always liked both goalies, and even before the season started, I said that it was make or break time for Halak as he was closing in on 25, which is when goalies usually become consistent and rise up (or go down), a consistency which Price had shown at a much younger age. The flaws you see in Price, I saw in both goalies. There is no "fundemental flaw". Practice makes perfect and Halak is proof of that as he was the worst goalie out of Huet, Price and him before 2009. Halak stuck to his guns, practiced hard and eventually became better, y'know, as young players do when they develop.

BTW, how is it that Halak is elite, yet Mike Cammalleri scored 13 friggin goals in 19 friggin playoff games, of all times to do that, yet we're not speaking of him in terms of 'elite' as Halak is 'elite'. Cammalleri has been one of the better goal scorers of the league in the past few seasons, has much more accomplishments (twice PPG for a whole season), but yeah, Halak with his one season (with stats eerily similar to Price's rookie season), and 10 or so games of great goaltending in the playoffs (cuz, yeah, he did have bad games in the playoffs) is that much more elite than Cammalleri?

Now, Price can still potentially be an elite goalie, we have Cammy, Markov, and add Subban. Money next year to get another elite player.

Hell, if we're gonna bank on one season for the "elite" title Halak now has, let's include Scott Gomez and Brian -48 goals/94 points- Gionta.

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:24 PM
  #41
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We are in serious need of a top 6 winger (perhaps two if AK regresses even more) which not only takes away from the effectiveness our smaller top lines, but also cancels any depth we have up front. This, IMO will prevent us from being anything more than a bubble team and it's not every year that everything goes right for you in the post season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Fixed. As Much as I love and Respect Halak, hes not a top 5 goalie.

Top 5 Goalies for me are:

Brodeur
Luongo
Miller
Lundqvist
Fleury

I'd say those are the closest to the top 5, the bottom 2 of that top 5 are debatable of course.
Ward and Bryzgalov say hi. They're both easily > Fleury.

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
70 points is crazy.
70 points is crazy. In the last 3 years, we've had 1 player get more than 70 points.

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
70 points is crazy. In the last 3 years, we've had 1 player get more than 70 points.
1 player got more than 70 points, two got 70

But yah the chances of halak staying an elite goalie is about the same as Eller becoming a PPG player

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:58 PM
  #44
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I've been high on Subban, Eller and Boyd all off season and how much they'll improve our team, thats two terrific bottom 6 players. A bottom 6 that was ineffective for pretty much most of last season, and now we have a experience defense and Price in net which I'm confident he'll have a good year. As somebody said earlier people have short memories in hockey and I remember times where Price consistently showed he was elite then he just dropped off..people forget.

When Hammers contract is up next season we'll have the money to sign a top 6 free agent forward, we're slowly building a solid hockey club and it's time to stop bashing it because we've come a long way in the past couple of years.

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Old
07-29-2010, 10:51 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildaskill View Post
Once Markov comes back from injury I really like this!!!!
Markov - Spacek
Hammer - Subban
Gill - Georges
Obyrne
The point being...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Lars Eller as a 70 point player would be fantastic imo. I'd be thrilled
Yea but hopefully not just 5 years from now.

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Old
07-29-2010, 11:01 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
70 points is crazy, but if Eller can play as well as Moore I will be estatic. That was a great rental pick up that turned the 3rd line from CRAP to very good. Great PK'er, forechecker, and put in 0.5 PPG, and then some HUGE playoff goals.

If Eller can do the same contributions & overall make our 3rd line respectable then it will be a huge improvment over last season where it was mostly garbage until Moore came.

Hopefully Eller can be our Jordan Staal for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Not sure where this 70 point stuff came from. I've heard that his top end is the second line and he could very well be a third liner.

I'll agree with Fleury (for now), Osgood and Niemi, but that's about it. The other guys played elite hockey and are proven over time to be elite.

Also, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Chicago had teams that are light years away from anything we will produce. All of those teams have at least three franchise players on them. We have maybe one in Markov. You could make the argument that these teams benefited from being the first teams stacked with high picks in the cap era. But we will never have that luxury.

So goaltending for us needs to be elite imo. And Halak showed flashes of elite talent both during the regular season, at the Olympics and of course in the playoffs where it counts. You can't find goalies with the mix of mental fortitude and talent every day. Carey Price certainly has the talent, but he has big holes in his game. Mentally, I think he's done fine with all he's had to put up with, but the fundamental flaws he has are not shared by Halak (positioning, overplaying, tracking, glove hand and ability to make the big save... also, he does not seem to have the urgency Halak has... Halak is always on top of the puck).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I disagree. Look at what the elite goalies accomplished last year. Also look at recent cup winners : Marc Andre Fleury elite? Giguere elite?? Cam Ward elite??? Niemi elite???? OSGOOD? You have to go back to pre-lockout era from 2000 to 2003 to find elite goalies winning (Roy, Hasek and Brodeur in succession). You don't need an elite goalie, you need a good goalie in the middle of a hot streak.

A 70pt two way center is much harder to find than a good goalie (and we still have one anyways). I also think its just as likely that Halak stays an elite goalie than Eller becomes a 70+pt first line center. 70pts is a lot btw, I'll be thrilled if he consistantly produces 50 to 60pts.
I don't know where YOU guys took that load of crap, but Eller actually has 70 points + potential. Every single Blues fan who followed him say so, and some of them even say he has more potential than any of Perron and Berglund. Many fans throughout the league who followed him mention this as well.

He might not have 70 points this year at the age of 21, but he sure as hell might break it several times in his career.

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Old
07-30-2010, 12:01 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
I don't know where YOU guys took that load of crap, but Eller actually has 70 points + potential. Every single Blues fan who followed him say so, and some of them even say he has more potential than any of Perron and Berglund. Many fans throughout the league who followed him mention this as well.

He might not have 70 points this year at the age of 21, but he sure as hell might break it several times in his career.
But its that, potential, just like Andrei Kostitsyn has the potential to hit 40 goals. I'm really thrilled by Eller but I'll stay cautiously optimistic (someone mentionned Jordan Staal. I think Eller can be a similar player). Its difficult to make future point predictions for this guy, I think at worst he'll be a defensively great 40-50pt producer but his upside is extremely high (PPG center). Its a matter of how we develop him and the role we give him, and THAT scares me to be honest. I doubt Martin turns him into a Danish Forsberg, and hope he doesn't turn him into some kind of Smolinski.

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Old
07-30-2010, 12:06 AM
  #48
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well we don't want to hurt ourselves by overhyping him. for piece of mind, i would rather conservatively underestimate someone than be doubly disappointed when i find out 2 years from now that he actually wasn't jesus.

plus, we've all invested our 'hype' life savings in the PK subban trust fund. we're kinna strapped for hypecash when it comes to anyone else.

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Old
07-30-2010, 12:40 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
I don't know where YOU guys took that load of crap, but Eller actually has 70 points + potential. Every single Blues fan who followed him say so, and some of them even say he has more potential than any of Perron and Berglund. Many fans throughout the league who followed him mention this as well.

He might not have 70 points this year at the age of 21, but he sure as hell might break it several times in his career.



EXACTLY.

I was told this exact same thing more than a dozen times from swedish friends, st.louis fans, ppl who followed him in Peoria, etc... the list goes on. The fact is this report of Eller's potential is more Consistent than Eklund on an offseason rant.

I'm psyched about Eller and his potential.

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Old
07-30-2010, 08:58 AM
  #50
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Who's arguing with 70 point POTENTIAL??

I just said he's not going to hit it in his rookie season (this season) playing on the 3rd line. 40 points would be very good.

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