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1995 The Hockey News rankings (C, LW, RW, D, G)

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Old
07-27-2010, 09:28 AM
  #26
Habsfan18
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Originally Posted by Mr Bojanglez View Post
Koivu at 19th??
It was likely based on reputation at that time. The rankings were done right after Koivu's 74 point season in Finland, and THN considered him the best player in the world not playing in the NHL.

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07-27-2010, 09:54 AM
  #27
Sampe
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Thought this sounded familiar and expected to see Koivu at 19th - and sure enough, there he was. I was very impressed by him in '95 but this I admit was very surprising to see back then. THN were predicting like crazy in the 90s and treating these lists as if it was the 21st century. They had seen Bure, Mogilny, Fedorov, Selšnne, Forsberg etc. enter the league in the early 90s and do well so I guess they felt like Koivu was simply the next one on the line after such a monster season in Europe.

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07-27-2010, 10:01 AM
  #28
Habsfan18
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Originally Posted by Sampe View Post
They had seen Bure, Mogilny, Fedorov, Selšnne, Forsberg etc. enter the league in the early 90s and do well so I guess they felt like Koivu was simply the next one on the line after such a monster season in Europe.
Well, in all fairness Koivu was likely on the verge of having an excellent career before that first knee injury. He really never was the same after that.

With his skill level, and the fact that he was amongst the fastest skaters in the world..it really makes you wonder what might have been..

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07-27-2010, 10:18 AM
  #29
begbeee
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Well, in all fairness Koivu was likely on the verge of having an excellent career before that first knee injury. He really never was the same after that.

With his skill level, and the fact that he was amongst the fastest skaters in the world..it really makes you wonder what might have been..
And I think somewhere there people started overrating him whole career. He was never the same after injury, bad that was actually his whole overseas career.

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07-27-2010, 02:46 PM
  #30
seventieslord
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For once I agree with you. He was really getting peppered and a lot of those were high quality shots too. I felt bad for him at the time that the team dropped off so badly defensively.

He did play awesome for the Kings later on though you're right.

I think if he had adapted his game as he got older and couldn't rely quite so much on those insane reflexes of his he could have done a lot better. He just didn't seem to change at all and was hanging back in the net.

Although that is one thing I like about him. As soon as you saw him in his stance you knew exactly who it was.. he was so unique looking.
Murphy, Macoun, Gill, Yushkevich, Jonsson, Ellett was not a bad defense corps, at least it shouldn't have been.

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07-27-2010, 02:50 PM
  #31
the edler
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Zhamnov's one great 48-game season makes him the #4 center in the sport
it wasn't only one season, it was three

68 25+47 72
61 26+45 71
48 30+35 65

177 81+127 208 ppg 1.175

looks very promising here statistically, and he probably played very promising for the jets, plus an olympic gold medal

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07-27-2010, 02:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Murphy, Macoun, Gill, Yushkevich, Jonsson, Ellett was not a bad defense corps, at least it shouldn't have been.
You can say that.. but they gave up a pile of shots and a pile of good scoring chances.

We saw on last years leafs defense that what is on paper doesn't always transfer to the results.

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07-27-2010, 04:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Murphy, Macoun, Gill, Yushkevich, Jonsson, Ellett was not a bad defense corps, at least it shouldn't have been.
I belive it was the whole team and just not the defense. I believe they led the league or close to leading the league in most shots against. Only Fuhr faced more shots than Potvin but he was celebrated for "reviving" himself while Felix got criticized for Fletchers errors.

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07-27-2010, 05:22 PM
  #34
Big Phil
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This is good ammo for the "Lindros was regarded as the best player in the game" argument.
I've been saying that for a while. No doubt he was the best player in the game during the lockout year. Now they knew they had to slot Mario in there somewhere but since he didn't play that whole season they put him at #2 in fairness to Lindros. The only thing is that starting for two seasons in 1995-96 Lemieux was tops in the NHL at any position and it was pretty clear cut. But they had to see if he would "comeback" the way only he could.

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07-27-2010, 07:15 PM
  #35
Uncle Rotter
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Same with Ranford - for several years (about 1992 onward) the typical opinion on Ranford was 'he's a great goalie, his numbers just stink because he plays for Edmonton'. When he was traded and continued to stink in Boston/Washington (while Joseph produced a massive upgrade in net for the Oilers) it became obvious that his numbers stunk because he was a stinky flopping goalie who managed to ride his great play in the 1990 playoffs for way too long.

Ranford's position on this list relative to guys like Richter and Vanbiesbrouck is laughable.
His international play would have helped his reputation.

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07-27-2010, 11:35 PM
  #36
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
It was likely based on reputation at that time. The rankings were done right after Koivu's 74 point season in Finland, and THN considered him the best player in the world not playing in the NHL.
that's probably why forsberg is so high too. fantastic pre-NHL career, considered NHL ready at least a year before he comes over, then proves everyone right by winning the calder and, once again, overshadowing kariya (who, by the way, is also too high and shouldn't have been rated over kevin stevens or gary roberts yet, even though both were coming off injury years and, as we know now, would never be the same).

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07-28-2010, 12:46 AM
  #37
MS
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Originally Posted by the edler View Post
it wasn't only one season, it was three

68 25+47 72
61 26+45 71
48 30+35 65

177 81+127 208 ppg 1.175

looks very promising here statistically, and he probably played very promising for the jets, plus an olympic gold medal
Those numbers aren't that impressive for the era, and were helped a lot by Selanne and Tkachuk (and Housley).

Zhamnov was a creampuff skill center with no grit who was below-average defensively and had had one elite season, and he was rated as the #4 center in the sport ahead of about 5 HHOF guys in their primes.

It's a ridiculous ranking.

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07-28-2010, 03:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Those numbers aren't that impressive for the era, and were helped a lot by Selanne and Tkachuk (and Housley).

Zhamnov was a creampuff skill center with no grit who was below-average defensively and had had one elite season, and he was rated as the #4 center in the sport ahead of about 5 HHOF guys in their primes.

It's a ridiculous ranking.
Well, he did make the second team All-Star team, and while his two seasons before that weren't great, they made it seem like 94-95 was more a case of a young player with lots of talent breaking out, rather than hitting a high point he never would again. Still, it seems difficult to rank him as high as he is

What I'm really confused about is Sakic. He was 25, had a proven track record, and had just finished 4th in league scoring for the 2nd best regular season team in the league. He was also 4th in All Star voting. Was he simply not seen as a winner until 95-96? It seems pretty ridiculous that a rookie Forsberg is ranked above him, let alone as many spots as he is.

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Old
07-28-2010, 06:00 AM
  #39
the edler
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Those numbers aren't that impressive for the era, and were helped a lot by Selanne and Tkachuk
zhamnov were helped a lot by selšnne and tkachuk?, then how come he outscored them in ppg in 93|94 and 94|95?

zhamnov
61 26 45 71 1.16
48 30 35 65 1.35

selšnne
51 25 29 54 1.06
45 22 26 48 1.07

tkachuk
84 41 40 81 0.96
48 22 29 51 1.06

those were probably the season's that the rankings were built on, no one knew he was never going to play a full 82 games nhl season ... you probably could have guessed it looking at his total games played, but it's only guessing, he was 24 or something

i probably wouldn't have ranked zhamnov as the number 4 center in the league but it's a strange ranking overall, steve yzerman is not top 20 but saku koivu and trevor linden is? you must see it as trevor linden were great in the 94 playoffs and no one really knew he were going to be kicked out from vancouver and disappear completely on awful islanders|canadiens teams, saku koivu were a promising star in the making, and yzerman came off from this season 47 12 26 38

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Old
07-28-2010, 02:13 PM
  #40
Johnny Engine
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx was not a bad defense corps, at least it shouldn't have been.
If the Toronto Maple Leafs had a pledge of allegiance, this sentence would be in it.

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Old
07-28-2010, 03:11 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Well, he did make the second team All-Star team, and while his two seasons before that weren't great, they made it seem like 94-95 was more a case of a young player with lots of talent breaking out, rather than hitting a high point he never would again. Still, it seems difficult to rank him as high as he is

What I'm really confused about is Sakic. He was 25, had a proven track record, and had just finished 4th in league scoring for the 2nd best regular season team in the league. He was also 4th in All Star voting. Was he simply not seen as a winner until 95-96? It seems pretty ridiculous that a rookie Forsberg is ranked above him, let alone as many spots as he is.
I agree Sakic really should have been ahead of Forsberg but at the time he was considered a bit of a choker (hilarious in retrospective and a good reminder that a few playoff games are not enough to judge how clutch a player is). Forsberg, after getting 4 points in 3 games, had a slow start. The second half of the season he was on fire which might have lead the voters to predict that he would continue with that pace next season (which he did).

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Old
07-30-2010, 04:20 AM
  #42
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Lindros over Lemieux **** off

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