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Tortorella: If Staal has no contract by training camp, he shouldn't be there(in tc)

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Old
07-29-2010, 04:20 PM
  #101
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post

Drury better watch himself too. Though he does have the C as insurance. If he loses it at some point, it's gonna get bad for him.
They should just strip him of it now and save themselves the crap later. I'm not sure how influential he is in the room but I can't see having your "leader" manning the 4th line and PK units exclusively. If hes slotted down there again out of camp they should just nip it in the bud and take it away and spread the A's around.

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07-29-2010, 05:19 PM
  #102
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"Stupid. It's stupid. I'm not going to get into negotiations, but it's stupid," the coach said after four-plus hours of making players sprint in circles on Day1 of his rigorous conditioning tests in Greenburgh. "He's a young man that needs to be in camp, that needs to go through the process of understanding what a pro is. I'm not sure where the thinking's coming from, but I still think players need to think for themselves. I think we blame it on agents all the time - I think his agent's stupid. I'm hoping he realizes that there's teammates here, too. So I'll leave it at that."
I always thought he meant that Dubi should sign so he can come to camp... not that he shuold be there regardless.

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07-29-2010, 06:15 PM
  #103
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Dubinsky, Callahan, Hank, or Gaborik seem like good choices for Captain.

I know Hank is a goalie, but he's a stand-up guy who always seems to say the right things. I feel like he can easily bring a locker room together.

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07-30-2010, 08:10 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
They should just strip him of it now and save themselves the crap later. I'm not sure how influential he is in the room but I can't see having your "leader" manning the 4th line and PK units exclusively. If hes slotted down there again out of camp they should just nip it in the bud and take it away and spread the A's around.
not a chance. although i would like to see the c given to ryan callahan, it wont happen.

torts the clown is a big dru guy. he loves him..... for all the wrong reasons. torts still sees capt quaalude like he was when he was still a decent player. torts lives in the past and sees the league like it was when he last coached. back then, drury was still good. things have changed. torts hasnt.

anyway, i still cant believe capt quaalude makes 7 mil per and gaborik makes 7.5 mil.

thats just wrong.

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07-30-2010, 08:35 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No? The coach before seeing player on the ice, not only suggests that he may try him with Gaborik, but will give him "every opportunity" to play with Gabo tells you what?
The guy would've been third on our team last year in scoring and he was playing on a line with freakin' Michal Handzus, getting limited power play time, and had a coach who had grown tired of him.

As soon as he was signed he was instantly a top 6 player on our team.

I think it was pretty easy to figure out he was going to get a shot with Gabby at some point.

Torts saying that really isn't anything to be surprised about. And it definitely isn't anything worth insinuating that the coach is taking orders from the GM about playing him there because he promised the player that chance.

It was obvious to all parties involved if he signed here he was going to get that opportunity.

I just think you're reaching a little there.

Torts will play him where he fits best.

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07-30-2010, 09:27 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
The guy would've been third on our team last year in scoring and he was playing on a line with freakin' Michal Handzus, getting limited power play time, and had a coach who had grown tired of him.

As soon as he was signed he was instantly a top 6 player on our team.

I think it was pretty easy to figure out he was going to get a shot with Gabby at some point.

Torts saying that really isn't anything to be surprised about. And it definitely isn't anything worth insinuating that the coach is taking orders from the GM about playing him there because he promised the player that chance.

It was obvious to all parties involved if he signed here he was going to get that opportunity.

I just think you're reaching a little there.

Torts will play him where he fits best.
Frolov's story in LA was a carbon copy of Zherdev story in NY. The desire to screw the talented player on last contract year or before RFA in terms of lowering his numbers is so prevalent, that it could go over the team interests. That is why at Slats directive Torts abused Z in last half of the season to sell it to fans and the media as if the guy is not good enough, which was a part of the plan. All team managements in NHL know that and they sorta conspire against the player. They know that they may be in the same situation with their own guy at some point in time. That is why no one offer Z job in NHL last year (being out of cap money also helped that cause). The difference with Frolov was that Alex realized it fully and instead of heading to KHL agreed to discount with NYR just to break that "conspiracy". In return Rangers promised him not to impede his success and help him if he helps them.
Therefore he will play with Gabo even if they do not fit together and the Board will be screaming and yelling at Torts to move him.

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07-30-2010, 09:33 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Frolov's story in LA was a carbon copy of Zherdev story in NY. The desire to screw the talented player on last contract year or before RFA in terms of lowering his numbers is so prevalent, that it could go over the team interests. That is why at Slats directive Torts abused Z in last half of the season to sell it to fans and the media as if the guy is not good enough, which was a part of the plan. All team managements in NHL know that and they sorta conspire against the player. They know that they may be in the same situation with their own guy at some point in time. That is why no one offer Z job in NHL last year (being out of cap money also helped that cause). The difference with Frolov was that Alex realized it fully and instead of heading to KHL agreed to discount with NYR just to break that "conspiracy". In return Rangers promised him not to impede his success and help him if he helps them.
Therefore he will play with Gabo even if they do not fit together and the Board will be screaming and yelling at Torts to move him.
Ooo those are some intriguing machinations.

Got anything else, you know, besides conjecture?

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07-30-2010, 09:50 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post

Got anything else, you know, besides conjecture?
Nope, this is a Message Board, not a leading media outlet. Conjectures not only appropriate here, but the the sole purpose of this place. At least for me it is so. My post you referring to is the result of compilation of various postings here.

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07-30-2010, 10:04 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Nope, this is a Message Board, not a leading media outlet. Conjectures not only appropriate here, but the the sole purpose of this place. At least for me it is so. My post you referring to is the result of compilation of various postings here.
"He is talking what Sather promised Frolov when he signed him at discount - Gaborik line mate. He confirms that as a coach he will follow his boss directions, although at the moment he has a little clue on what player Frolov is..."

That was your initial comment I responded to. To me it was stated in a way that this was some how a fact, which is what I took exception with. I still think that opinion is way off base.

A monkey with a blind fold on would know that Frolov should be playing with Gabby at some point.

Why the need for the conspiracy theory?

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07-30-2010, 10:09 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Dubinsky, Callahan, Hank, or Gaborik seem like good choices for Captain.

I know Hank is a goalie, but he's a stand-up guy who always seems to say the right things. I feel like he can easily bring a locker room together.
i dont like the idea of having a goalie being the captain, sure he is a great guy and player, but i just dont see it

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07-30-2010, 10:19 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Frolov's story in LA was a carbon copy of Zherdev story in NY. The desire to screw the talented player on last contract year or before RFA in terms of lowering his numbers is so prevalent, that it could go over the team interests. That is why at Slats directive Torts abused Z in last half of the season to sell it to fans and the media as if the guy is not good enough, which was a part of the plan. All team managements in NHL know that and they sorta conspire against the player. They know that they may be in the same situation with their own guy at some point in time. That is why no one offer Z job in NHL last year (being out of cap money also helped that cause). The difference with Frolov was that Alex realized it fully and instead of heading to KHL agreed to discount with NYR just to break that "conspiracy". In return Rangers promised him not to impede his success and help him if he helps them.
Therefore he will play with Gabo even if they do not fit together and the Board will be screaming and yelling at Torts to move him.
I don't know enough of Frolov's situation last year, but you're speaking out of your ass about Zherdev. The player played himself off the team. He was given plenty of opportunity to succeed. The coach was pushing him no more and no less than he was pushing all the other guys. Zherdev is to blame for Zherdev's failures, and no one else.

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07-30-2010, 10:21 AM
  #112
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I think 94now leaves out one other major conspirator of the group who tried to screw Nikolai Zherdev. Without telling you his name I can tell you his initials--N. Z.--what a coincidence?--the same as Nikolai Zherdev. Now it may be that I have capgrass syndrome because I swear the guy wearing 13 with Zherdev on the back of his shirt at the beginning of the season--looked more or less the same at the end of the season but there was something very, very different about him. In October, November and December he was very good to excellent night in and night out, completely involved. By the end of the season though he was completely uninvoled to the point of invisibility. Was it all Tortorella? Personally, I don't care for Tortorella but the difference between the early Z and the later Z was night and day. Hard to blame John for all that without something substantial to back it up. One might think that the later Z was a replica of the early Z--looked and acted like him, but really wasn't him--which is what capgrass is all about.

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07-30-2010, 10:24 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
"He is talking what Sather promised Frolov when he signed him at discount - Gaborik line mate. He confirms that as a coach he will follow his boss directions, although at the moment he has a little clue on what player Frolov is..."

That was your initial comment I responded to. To me it was stated in a way that this was some how a fact, which is what I took exception with. I still think that opinion is way off base.
FROLOV (Squishy translated):
Quote:
I communicated with them before signing the contract. It was very important for me to understand in what capacity they would count on me. I heard that on the Rangers Iíll receive a lot of playing time, will regularly be on the ice during the power play. Most likely, Iíll play on a line with the leader of the team, Gaborik. In New York they want me to create a high-powered offensive unit with Gaborik.
You make your own conclusions, alright? Facts-Schmacts, whatever...

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07-30-2010, 10:37 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I think 94now leaves out one other major conspirator of the group who tried to screw Nikolai Zherdev. Without telling you his name I can tell you his initials--N. Z.--what a coincidence?--the same as Nikolai Zherdev. Now it may be that I have capgrass syndrome because I swear the guy wearing 13 with Zherdev on the back of his shirt at the beginning of the season--looked more or less the same at the end of the season but there was something very, very different about him. In October, November and December he was very good to excellent night in and night out, completely involved. By the end of the season though he was completely uninvoled to the point of invisibility. Was it all Tortorella? Personally, I don't care for Tortorella but the difference between the early Z and the later Z was night and day. Hard to blame John for all that without something substantial to back it up. One might think that the later Z was a replica of the early Z--looked and acted like him, but really wasn't him--which is what capgrass is all about.
Conspiracy is a cornerstone of management, any management. Parents conspire against their children routinely as part of keeping kids controlled. Single parents often have, therefore, a real trouble with parenthood due to absence of conspiracy partner. Lie and mistrust are part of life, yet people deny it just to keep the rosy glasses on their noses.
To me it is okay. Just stop fighting the obvious. Use it to explain the events without scare. No need for sarcasm.

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07-30-2010, 10:40 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
FROLOV (Squishy translated):


You make your own conclusions, alright? Facts-Schmacts, whatever...
Again, any idiot could've figured out by looking at our roster, and then placing Frolov on it, that he was going to see time with Gaborik.

I'm pretty sure Frolov and his agent didn't have a difficult time looking at our roster and realizing that either.

YOUR STATEMENT WAS THAT JOHN TORTORELLA HAS BEEN ORDERED BY GLEN SATHER TO PLAY HIM ON A LINE WITH GABORIK, AND THAT FROLOV SIGNING THE CONTRACT WAS BASED ON THAT.

How bout a quote that backs that up? Since that's what you said.

Not that Frolov and everyone with a brain could figure out he'd get a chance with Gaborik.

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07-30-2010, 10:43 AM
  #116
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Alright 94, my only other question is how do you type with this on?


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Old
07-30-2010, 10:47 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
FROLOV (Squishy translated):


You make your own conclusions, alright? Facts-Schmacts, whatever...
Is it not common sense that Frolov would step in and probably play first line and powerplay minutes on this team. You can hope Sather is making Tortorella give Frolov top line minutes all you want. The fact remains that he clearly falls into the top line on our depth chart.

You are clearly grasping at straws to push your whole whiny agenda across.

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07-30-2010, 10:49 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
It was rumored that Boston wanted Gilroy and a 2nd. That's not valuable assets by any means.

A team with Savard, Gaborik, Frolov, Dubinsky, Staal, Del Zotto, and Lundqvist in net can contend. Montreal w less elite talent/allstar caliber talent made the ECF.
Unfortunately, we can't fit Savard under the summer cap. Not unless we sign Staal to like 2 mil or less, or clear salary some other way first (trade Rozy for a cheaper dman, for example).

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07-30-2010, 10:54 AM
  #119
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Frolov's story in LA was a carbon copy of Zherdev story in NY. The desire to screw the talented player on last contract year or before RFA in terms of lowering his numbers is so prevalent, that it could go over the team interests. That is why at Slats directive Torts abused Z in last half of the season to sell it to fans and the media as if the guy is not good enough, which was a part of the plan. All team managements in NHL know that and they sorta conspire against the player. They know that they may be in the same situation with their own guy at some point in time. That is why no one offer Z job in NHL last year (being out of cap money also helped that cause). The difference with Frolov was that Alex realized it fully and instead of heading to KHL agreed to discount with NYR just to break that "conspiracy". In return Rangers promised him not to impede his success and help him if he helps them.
Therefore he will play with Gabo even if they do not fit together and the Board will be screaming and yelling at Torts to move him.
My goodness if you believe this I have a nice little bridge in Brooklyn that I'd LOVE to sell to you...

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07-30-2010, 11:51 AM
  #120
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Is it not common sense that Frolov would step in and probably play first line and powerplay minutes on this team. You can hope Sather is making Tortorella give Frolov top line minutes all you want. The fact remains that he clearly falls into the top line on our depth chart.

You are clearly grasping at straws to push your whole whiny agenda across.
Let's get back to it comes Thanksgiving time. Frolov still be playing top line time by then, IMO.

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07-30-2010, 11:54 AM
  #121
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My goodness if you believe this I have a nice little bridge in Brooklyn that I'd LOVE to sell to you...
You don't have to believe anything... The only true guarantee is an insurance policy from Met Life. I will have to look at the bridge you have for sale.

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07-30-2010, 11:56 AM
  #122
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Is it not common sense that Frolov would step in and probably play first line and powerplay minutes on this team.
Torts confirmed that. Didn't you read his interview?

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07-30-2010, 12:14 PM
  #123
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Torts confirmed that. Didn't you read his interview?
You're having a hard time following this.

It's common sense that Frolov would at some point be playing with Gabby. Hearing Torts say as much isn't a surprise.

This all started because you stated that Glen Sather is the one dictating to Torts that he does this because he promised Frolov before he signed the contract.

Torts "confirmed" this because Torts has common sense, and it was obvious with our forwards that he'd instantly be top 6 and at some point get a chance with Gabs.

For some reason you believe that Torts wouldn't have put Frolov with Gabby on his own, and that he needed a mandate from his boss to do so.

People are questioning you because you're throwing out all these conspiracy theories.

Now you're trying to twist things and say stuff like, "oh well we'll see at thanksgiving if they're playing together."

How would that prove your conspiracy right? What if they, you know, produce together?

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07-30-2010, 12:21 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
You're having a hard time following this.

It's common sense that Frolov would at some point be playing with Gabby. Hearing Torts say as much isn't a surprise.

This all started because you stated that Glen Sather is the one dictating to Torts that he does this because he promised Frolov before he signed the contract.

Torts "confirmed" this because Torts has common sense, and it was obvious with our forwards that he'd instantly be top 6 and at some point get a chance with Gabs.

For some reason you believe that Torts wouldn't have put Frolov with Gabby on his own, and that he needed a mandate from his boss to do so.

People are questioning you because you're throwing out all these conspiracy theories.

Now you're trying to twist things and say stuff like, "oh well we'll see at thanksgiving if they're playing together."

How would that prove your conspiracy right? What if they, you know, produce together?
You don't have to go in length to explain your point. I get it. You consider Torts a successful professional. I view him as BS artist that kisses his boss behind and echos him every step of the way to play it safe.
There is no proof or disproof to either. Therefore no matter how upsetting it is to you, your point is as good as mine. Frolov, IMO, is a 2LW. he will end up there eventually, but rather later than sooner, because Sather is the man of his word, no matter how bad he is in what he does.

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07-30-2010, 12:33 PM
  #125
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I don't know enough of Frolov's situation last year, but you're speaking out of your ass about Zherdev. The player played himself off the team.
I wouldn't say he played himself off the team. He priced himself off the team. He was extended a qualifying offer.

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