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Rangers sign Derek Boogard (4 years @ $1.625M per)

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Old
07-30-2010, 01:11 PM
  #1026
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I get it...you guys win...u don't like fighting, you don't like goons and you don't like violence...but guess what...over 25 GM's in hockey do and fighting is very much still a big part of the game and thank god for them.
Please tell me where I said that. You are just creating a straw man to knock over.

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07-30-2010, 01:12 PM
  #1027
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Can you point me to the exact post where I said I want Rozsival to do our fighting? How about the post where I said I'm against fighting?

I suppose taking shots at me is much easier than trying to make some sort of coherent point.
It is clear you don't like goons, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong or bad it is

but if every other team has one a goon...then you can cry all you about what a waste of a roster space it is but to me...you fight fire with fire and we got the biggest beast there is...stand up an applaud or get the **** off the bus.

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07-30-2010, 01:15 PM
  #1028
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
It is clear you don't like goons, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong or bad it is

but if every other team has one a goon...then you can cry all you about what a waste of a roster space it is but to me...you fight fire with fire and we got the biggest beast there is...stand up an applaud or get the **** off the bus.
Ahhh...patriotism. The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel.

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07-30-2010, 01:32 PM
  #1029
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I like goons... and yet I still think this signing is horrible.

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07-30-2010, 01:34 PM
  #1030
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Like someone else said...I'd much rather have a goon and not need him than need a goon and not have him.

Just my two cents...somebody will probably tell me I'm an awful person or something like that, but whatever...

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07-30-2010, 01:40 PM
  #1031
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
It is clear you don't like goons, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong or bad it is
Way to sneak that bit in there.

Quote:
but if every other team has one a goon...then you can cry all you about what a waste of a roster space it is but to me...you fight fire with fire and we got the biggest beast there is...stand up an applaud or get the **** off the bus.
Not every team in the league has a goon, sorry. Forgive me if I want a guy who can fight and play hockey at a reasonable level, instead of some schmuck who's only real skill is fighting and taking dumb penalties.

Hate to break it to you, but you aren't a better fan than anyone else.

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07-30-2010, 01:50 PM
  #1032
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With Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in the division the Rangers needed a heavyweight. It is not Sather's way to go out and get an average player, he needs the best that offseason. Boogard is the best fighter available in a few years. He is intimidating and one of, if not the best at what he does.

Rupp, Godard

Shelley

Leblonde

Gillies



Every team in the division has a heavyweight. If the Rangers hadn't addressed the issue it would have made for a very long season where this team would be constantly pushed around.

The last time this team didn't have a heavyweight the Flyers took runs at Jagr and other Ranger players. Since then Sather has made a concerted effort to give his team the means of defending itself. We all saw how the team changed its play with Shelley and Prust were in the line-up. Boogard + Prust allows other players to be more comfortable on the ice knowing they have someone on their side if things go south.

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07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
  #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
With Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in the division the Rangers needed a heavyweight. It is not Sather's way to go out and get an average player, he needs the best that offseason. Boogard is the best fighter available in a few years. He is intimidating and one of, if not the best at what he does.

Rupp, Godard

Shelley

Leblonde

Gillies



Every team in the division has a heavyweight. If the Rangers hadn't addressed the issue it would have made for a very long season where this team would be constantly pushed around.

The last time this team didn't have a heavyweight the Flyers took runs at Jagr and other Ranger players. Since then Sather has made a concerted effort to give his team the means of defending itself. We all saw how the team changed its play with Shelley and Prust were in the line-up. Boogard + Prust allows other players to be more comfortable on the ice knowing they have someone on their side if things go south.
Viper, usually I disagree with you about almost everything...but thank God someone finally brought a logical point to this argument with proof and facts laid out..

It's not about who likes fighters and who doesn't like fighters. It has everything to do with that fact that our division has probably the best collection of heavyweights in the league. Why shouldn't we have a horse in that race?

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07-30-2010, 02:17 PM
  #1034
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Way to sneak that bit in there.



Not every team in the league has a goon, sorry. Forgive me if I want a guy who can fight and play hockey at a reasonable level, instead of some schmuck who's only real skill is fighting and taking dumb penalties.

Hate to break it to you, but you aren't a better fan than anyone else.
22 out of 30 teams have a goon...that is 73% of the teams in hockey...again...u can cry about what you want but it doesn't mean anything...numbers don't lie.

Who doesn't want a guy who can play and fight at the same time...but there is only a handful of those guys around.

If you are the Bruins...do you really want Lucic fighting Orr?

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07-30-2010, 02:18 PM
  #1035
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Viper, usually I disagree with you about almost everything...but thank God someone finally brought a logical point to this argument with proof and facts laid out..

It's not about who likes fighters and who doesn't like fighters. It has everything to do with that fact that our division has probably the best collection of heavyweights in the league. Why shouldn't we have a horse in that race?
Come on...what the man has stated is perfect sense but when you are dealing with irrational people facts don't mean a thing.

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07-30-2010, 02:20 PM
  #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Viper, usually I disagree with you about almost everything...but thank God someone finally brought a logical point to this argument with proof and facts laid out..

It's not about who likes fighters and who doesn't like fighters. It has everything to do with that fact that our division has probably the best collection of heavyweights in the league. Why shouldn't we have a horse in that race?
People will still disagree with me.

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07-30-2010, 02:27 PM
  #1037
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Anyone who has been crying about this signing look at the east now
Devils LLL
Islanders kono,Gillies, Yabo
Pens Rupp,Godard
Caps King
Florida Grant
Leafs Orr, Rosehill
Boston Thorton , Reich
Senators Carkner Neil

sounds pretty darn tough to me guys
I made that same point 3 days ago here but people who want to be so right dont read anything but what they want to hear. The NHL is looking for fans fighting brings fans. The first time Boogy ko's someone watch the amount of Jerseys MSG sells

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07-30-2010, 02:39 PM
  #1038
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I made that same point 3 days ago here but people who want to be so right dont read anything but what they want to hear. The NHL is looking for fans fighting brings fans. The first time Boogy ko's someone watch the amount of Jerseys MSG sells
Do we know his number yet or his Cally going to soil himself when Boogey request the number?

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07-30-2010, 02:42 PM
  #1039
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
If Neil goes out and hammers any Ranger then he will have to answer the bell and if he doesn't want fight Boogey then he wont hit anyone...that simple.
So Boogaard's presence is going to nullify our oppositions physical game?

HAH! HAHAHAHAH! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

That makes a whole lotta sense right there.

I can picture it now. In the Vancouver lockerroom before a game. Players talking amongst eachother, whispering **** like Aww man we're playing the Wild tonight, we can't hit anybody because Boogaard's going to end our careers.


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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
It's not 1975, it really doesnt work like that anymore. Worst case for neil is he hammers somebody, boogard goes after him, neil turtles/doesn't drop the gloves, boogard gets an instigator + misconduct.
Someone who's watched more than an hours worth of hockey this decade.

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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
This reminds me of so many posts by Devil fans, who say their resident tough guy is going to beat the crap out of Sean Avery. And it never happens.
Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Devils crap cant beat Avery because the Rangers always has a goon.
Fail.

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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Regarding the other post...if Neil flattens Gabby and Boogey is at the end of the bench...next shift that Neil is on the ice...u better believe Boogey is on and if gets a misconduct...who gives a s***...the point was made.
You probably haven't noticed yet, but checking is allowed in the league. Gaborik's a smart player and doesn't put himself in bad positions. You don't see his head down when he's facing the boards. If Neil flattens Gabby, and it's a clean hit, you continue playing the game.

You do tell your players to target Spezza next time he's on the ice though.

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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Eye for an Eye...
Eye for an Eye in this situation, would be for someone like Prust to go lay out one of their stars.

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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Would you rathe rhave Boogy there to fight neil or Callahan having to do it? Stop with the he will be on the bench 24/7 non sense he will play and do his job when needed. Worry about guys like Callahan scoring a few big goals and we be ok.
Of course he would rather have Boogaard fight. Don't ask stupid questions you know the answer to. Fact is though, that unless Neil drops his gloves and accepts a fight, our team is going to be at a disadvantage.

I'm not suggesting we let our opponents run us. Neither is Trx. Sbob didn't either. Nobody bashing the Boogaard signing is saying anything of this nature.

Guys like myself who dislike this signing, have their reason's.

Reason #1 is the contract itself. Too much money, too many years.
Reason #2 is, Derek can't play hockey.

Most goons in league play like ****. But there's a difference between having a goon who can only play 3-4 minutes a game because he could barely skate, pass, and shoot the puck, versus a guy like Orr, who could chip in about twice that ice time and still get the job done from a physical pov.

If the contract wasn't so much for so long, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with the signing. I wouldn't be thrilled, because I prefer guys that can play the game, but I wouldn't hate it.

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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
so typical...i once consider ranger fans the most passionate and more inform hockey fan...then i can to this board by a buddy of mine and i have regretted it since...because the majority of people on this board nothing of hockey...
Many of us have actually played some hockey in our lives. I'd like to know where your hockey experience comes from. Is it all based on what you watch on TV? Do you know what it's like to have to wake up at 4:30AM, drive 30-minutes to the rink, and practice before school starts?

Or get a summer job to pay for your goalie equipment (which isn't cheap, and when you're trying to make money as a 14 year old, **** aint easy)?

Have you gone to a hockey camp where ex-players and coaches took the time to tutor you on some of the finer points of the game?

I'd like to know how many hockey scouts, writers, and people involved with hockey on a professional level post on your old forum. Must be many. Yea, this place sucks nobody agrees with my stupid outlook wah! Grow up.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That's funny.

Doesn't like "enforcers" = An uninformed fan that has no passion for the team? Got it. Brilliant. I cannot dispute the logic!!

People like to put words in other people's mouths.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Brashear was paid to be a deterrent. Orr was paid to be a deterrent. Guys were still running our players, crashing our net, and taking cheap shots on guys.
Probert, arguably the most intimidating enforcer to play the game, didn't have that type of effect.

No enforcer in the entire league is going to cause their opposition to play a clean, docile game.


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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Let's make it simple you don't like tough guys and others do. End of story let's all stop replying to it cause our opinions differ
Don't take the same route O.N is taking by assuming things that aren't there.


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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Good thing you are not our GM...because every team in the East has a goon and you want Rozival fighting your battles...you make total sense.
Where the hell did anyone say they want Rozsival fighting? You're doing it again. Putting words in people's mouths. That's the fourth person you've done it to in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I get it...you guys win...u don't like fighting, you don't like goons and you don't like violence...but guess what...over 25 GM's in hockey do and fighting is very much still a big part of the game and thank god for them.
Quite the opposite. Most of us LOVE fights. People here are giving you legitimate reason's why they dislike the Boogaard signing. You're assuming he's going to make our opposition think twice before hitting our guys. But you have yet to answer why players on the Wild were getting hit last year with Derek on their team?

Why didn't Orr prevent guys from hitting Jagr? Why didn't Laraque prevent guys from hitting Crosby or AO? How is it that on a nightly basis, teams stars are hit practically every night, when most teams have a heavyweight of their own?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
It is clear you don't like goons, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong or bad it is

but if every other team has one a goon...then you can cry all you about what a waste of a roster space it is but to me...you fight fire with fire and we got the biggest beast there is...stand up an applaud or get the **** off the bus.
You could lead a horse to water . . . .

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07-30-2010, 02:48 PM
  #1040
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post

The last time this team didn't have a heavyweight the Flyers took runs at Jagr and other Ranger players. Since then Sather has made a concerted effort to give his team the means of defending itself. We all saw how the team changed its play with Shelley and Prust were in the line-up. Boogard + Prust allows other players to be more comfortable on the ice knowing they have someone on their side if things go south.
Actually, wasn't it when Brash blindsided Betts?

For me, it depends on the player. I liked Shelley as he was able to contribute something - even if not on the scoreboard. The line of Prust Ani and Shelley were holding that puck in the offensive zone surprisingly well. What I don't like is a player that has a single use of dropping his gloves while taking too many penalties (which nowadays, if all you are is a fighter - you will take too many penalties).

But in the end, I still think this team is better off with an enforcer than without. I would have preferred Shelley but he didn't want to stay here. I'm happy with Boogard although the terms could have been a bit better.

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07-30-2010, 02:53 PM
  #1041
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I made that same point 3 days ago here but people who want to be so right dont read anything but what they want to hear. The NHL is looking for fans fighting brings fans. The first time Boogy ko's someone watch the amount of Jerseys MSG sells
So the NHL wanted the teams in the East to collect goons this off-season so they can bring back old-time hockey fans? Maybe they convinced Sather to sign Boogaard?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Do we know his number yet or his Cally going to soil himself when Boogey request the number?
If Boogaard actually does request #24 from one of the teams alternate captains, what's it say about him?

Newsflash to the 37 year old female hockey expert: Callahan's #24 is staying put. If there's a change with that sweater, it'll be a different letter on his chest.

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07-30-2010, 02:56 PM
  #1042
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
22 out of 30 teams have a goon...that is 73% of the teams in hockey...again...u can cry about what you want but it doesn't mean anything...numbers don't lie.

Who doesn't want a guy who can play and fight at the same time...but there is only a handful of those guys around.

If you are the Bruins...do you really want Lucic fighting Orr?
Come on Orr, the NHL's GMs and coaches don't know more than the select Rangers mod and their minions. Does look like you have to think anti- heavyweight if you want that "esteemed" title on the Ranger board.

Funny thing is, is as much as I have always believed in having a resident tough guy on your squad, especially a team who for decades has been considered soft, I respect and understand those who want a skilled tough guy who can play the game. The Red-Wings have added a lot to the non-heavyweight debate and its hard to argue against there success. Darren McCarty did play a big role in his tenure as a Wing though. But for the most part...

They just aren't there.

Slats tried to get Neil, but looks like he wasn't interested. Brian Burke tied up 4 million in Colton Orr. The Leaf fans LOVE him. Guess Brian Burke must be a moron huh??

I think it was D-trap who said it best. I'd rather have him (Boogey) and say we don't need him that not have him at all.

75% of the best hockey minds in the world believe that a heavyweight is still needed to be a sucessful regular season team. I happen to agree with them.

Those that don't? Thats cool too. But after watching 95% of every game every season for the last 38 years, nothing or nobody can erase the memories of Rangers teams of the past getting absolutely run out of the rink by bigger, stronger, nastier, dirtier teams. And how many times that I had walked out of MSG with Ranger fans moaning about how soft and unwilling the Rangers are to initiate any kind of confrontational, ugly, in your face attitude and (to stay on topic) not to have that type of player that would routinely get in the face of the opposing teams skilled players and not be afraid to lay a thumping on them if they proceeded to yap to much. The Avery of 3 years ago did it and he was like a god (to most) on these boards.


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Old
07-30-2010, 02:58 PM
  #1043
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
So Boogaard's presence is going to nullify our oppositions physical game?

HAH! HAHAHAHAH! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

That makes a whole lotta sense right there.

I can picture it now. In the Vancouver lockerroom before a game. Players talking amongst eachother, whispering **** like Aww man we're playing the Wild tonight, we can't hit anybody because Boogaard's going to end our careers.




Someone who's watched more than an hours worth of hockey this decade.



Exactly.



Fail.



You probably haven't noticed yet, but checking is allowed in the league. Gaborik's a smart player and doesn't put himself in bad positions. You don't see his head down when he's facing the boards. If Neil flattens Gabby, and it's a clean hit, you continue playing the game.

You do tell your players to target Spezza next time he's on the ice though.



Eye for an Eye in this situation, would be for someone like Prust to go lay out one of their stars.



Of course he would rather have Boogaard fight. Don't ask stupid questions you know the answer to. Fact is though, that unless Neil drops his gloves and accepts a fight, our team is going to be at a disadvantage.

I'm not suggesting we let our opponents run us. Neither is Trx. Sbob didn't either. Nobody bashing the Boogaard signing is saying anything of this nature.

Guys like myself who dislike this signing, have their reason's.

Reason #1 is the contract itself. Too much money, too many years.
Reason #2 is, Derek can't play hockey.

Most goons in league play like ****. But there's a difference between having a goon who can only play 3-4 minutes a game because he could barely skate, pass, and shoot the puck, versus a guy like Orr, who could chip in about twice that ice time and still get the job done from a physical pov.

If the contract wasn't so much for so long, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with the signing. I wouldn't be thrilled, because I prefer guys that can play the game, but I wouldn't hate it.



Many of us have actually played some hockey in our lives. I'd like to know where your hockey experience comes from. Is it all based on what you watch on TV? Do you know what it's like to have to wake up at 4:30AM, drive 30-minutes to the rink, and practice before school starts?

Or get a summer job to pay for your goalie equipment (which isn't cheap, and when you're trying to make money as a 14 year old, **** aint easy)?

Have you gone to a hockey camp where ex-players and coaches took the time to tutor you on some of the finer points of the game?

I'd like to know how many hockey scouts, writers, and people involved with hockey on a professional level post on your old forum. Must be many. Yea, this place sucks nobody agrees with my stupid outlook wah! Grow up.



People like to put words in other people's mouths.



Probert, arguably the most intimidating enforcer to play the game, didn't have that type of effect.

No enforcer in the entire league is going to cause their opposition to play a clean, docile game.




Don't take the same route O.N is taking by assuming things that aren't there.




Where the hell did anyone say they want Rozsival fighting? You're doing it again. Putting words in people's mouths. That's the fourth person you've done it to in this thread.



Quite the opposite. Most of us LOVE fights. People here are giving you legitimate reason's why they dislike the Boogaard signing. You're assuming he's going to make our opposition think twice before hitting our guys. But you have yet to answer why players on the Wild were getting hit last year with Derek on their team?

Why didn't Orr prevent guys from hitting Jagr? Why didn't Laraque prevent guys from hitting Crosby or AO? How is it that on a nightly basis, teams stars are hit practically every night, when most teams have a heavyweight of their own?




You could lead a horse to water . . . .
Just because you picked up a hockey players towel after he took a shower doesn't make you an expert.

Hitting is part of the game...nothing wrong with it...but when Gabby gets jumped by a goon and nothing is done...that is what i have a problem with it.

When Orr was on the team...everyone hated him...now, everyone loves him...amazing...you guys are so fickle.

Boogey is here to stay...so, you can be miserable for four years and I will enjoy all that he brings to the team.

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07-30-2010, 02:58 PM
  #1044
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
22 out of 30 teams have a goon...that is 73% of the teams in hockey...again...u can cry about what you want but it doesn't mean anything...numbers don't lie.

Who doesn't want a guy who can play and fight at the same time...but there is only a handful of those guys around.

If you are the Bruins...do you really want Lucic fighting Orr?
73% isn't 100%, is it? Still doesn't support the "every team has one" theory.

Also, there are "goons" -- i.e. Boogaard, Brashear, Orr, etc -- and then there are goons that can contribute in some way other than fighting. If Boogaard even had the ability to score 10 goals and add 10 assists to the 4th line, I could see some sort of value there.

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07-30-2010, 03:04 PM
  #1045
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if tort lets him off the leash a little and can accept a retribution penalty, you can make boogaard count. even if you're willing to take a late hit penalty, is the PP worth the chance that your player is going to be sitting out a few games? Especially if this is retribution--he isn't going to be going after fourth liners. He is a massive hitter, but he's slow so he doesn't get to throw them as often as you'd like. IF he's given the green light, though, he can put anyone through the glass. He'll get there late, but if you're playing the tit for tat game and the other team knows you're willing to take a penalty to prove a point, they might think twice. everyone knew MN (especially Lemaire) wasn't going to play that game.

Thug-like and all, but it's really the only answer for a lot of the current crop of pests.

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07-30-2010, 03:05 PM
  #1046
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
73% isn't 100%, is it? Still doesn't support the "every team has one" theory.
Also, there are "goons" -- i.e. Boogaard, Brashear, Orr, etc -- and then there are goons that can contribute in some way other than fighting. If Boogaard even had the ability to score 10 goals and add 10 assists to the 4th line, I could see some sort of value there.
you got me...73% is not 100%...did you graduate from MIT?

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07-30-2010, 03:07 PM
  #1047
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
So Boogaard's presence is going to nullify our oppositions physical game?

HAH! HAHAHAHAH! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

That makes a whole lotta sense right there.

I can picture it now. In the Vancouver lockerroom before a game. Players talking amongst eachother, whispering **** like Aww man we're playing the Wild tonight, we can't hit anybody because Boogaard's going to end our careers.
When Orr was brought in the Flyers noticed and the following game was totally different. He changed that game and many others afterward.

When Brashear took a run at Jagr and then fought Shanahan in the middle of The Garden and got kicked out. Orr's next shift he went directly after Ovechkin 100 feet away from the puck. A Caps player tried to stand up to Orr and got his face bloodied. He changed that game as well as the next Caps game where the Caps were much more docile.

Its an intimidation factor that many here aren't taking into account.

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07-30-2010, 03:09 PM
  #1048
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
73% isn't 100%, is it? Still doesn't support the "every team has one" theory.

Also, there are "goons" -- i.e. Boogaard, Brashear, Orr, etc -- and then there are goons that can contribute in some way other than fighting. If Boogaard even had the ability to score 10 goals and add 10 assists to the 4th line, I could see some sort of value there.
Please name me 10 4th line players who can score 10 goals and add 10 assists while having 100+ PIMs and being able to consistently fight the other teams toughest players night-in and night-out. They arent available.

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07-30-2010, 03:09 PM
  #1049
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
When Orr was brought in the Flyers noticed and the following game was totally different. He changed that game and many others afterward.

When Brashear took a run at Jagr and then fought Shanahan in the middle of The Garden and got kicked out. Orr's next shift he went directly after Ovechkin 100 feet away from the puck. A Caps player tried to stand up to Orr and got his face bloodied. He changed that game as well as the next Caps game where the Caps were much more docile.

Its an intimidation factor that many here aren't taking into account.
I dont like fighting and hitting...it is yucky...I want 25 Drury's on my team.

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07-30-2010, 03:10 PM
  #1050
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I dont like fighting and hitting...it is yucky...I want 25 Drury's on my team.
What is really funny is that I don't even like the idea of an "enforcer" but I see the necessity for one.

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