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Guys who scored a lot more goals due to someone...

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Old
04-06-2005, 10:20 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Examples:

Bernie Nicholls scoring over 70 goals in a season due to the great Gretzky.
yap when you KNOW what you are talking about

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Old
04-06-2005, 10:33 PM
  #52
Olorin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman
Stu Barnes 30 goal miracle thanks to Mario Lemieux

Andreychuks back to back 50 goal seasons thanks to Hawerchuk/Gilmour in 1993 and just Gilmour in 1994. Yea he was always a good scorer, but he couldn't do that at the age of 30 and 31 without help.

Graves 52 goals in 1994, because of Messier.
Graves' 52 goal season was more due to the Rangers having a very good powerplay that year. A large portion of his goals were deflections/tip-ins/garbage goals. Zubov had 77 assists that season, again largely due to an excellent powerplay.

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Old
04-06-2005, 10:48 PM
  #53
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Billy Smith owes all his goal scoring to Rob Ramage.

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Old
04-06-2005, 11:13 PM
  #54
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who did Gary Leeman and Ray Sheppard play with when they both notched 50?

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04-07-2005, 11:36 AM
  #55
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Paul Ysebaert in Detroit had two 30+ seasons playing with Yzerman. But as previously said, Rob Brown is the perfect example.

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Old
04-07-2005, 03:13 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_made
yap when you KNOW what you are talking about

You're criticizing Kovalev10 for suggesting Bernie Nicholls 70 goal season was an aberration??? Given that he broke 40 goals only 2 other times in his career, and that in the 10 seasons that followed his highest total was 27 in the lockout shortened season I might suggest you reflect on your own use of the dunce smilie.

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04-08-2005, 12:46 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
You're criticizing Kovalev10 for suggesting Bernie Nicholls 70 goal season was an aberration??? Given that he broke 40 goals only 2 other times in his career, and that in the 10 seasons that followed his highest total was 27 in the lockout shortened season I might suggest you reflect on your own use of the dunce smilie.
my how you jump to conclusions *places dunce hat on your melon* read his kovalev10's statement again to see WHY i am criticial. hint: gretzky and nicholls not on same line. and for you:

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04-09-2005, 04:47 AM
  #58
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John LeClair playing with Eric Lindros

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Old
04-09-2005, 10:09 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leachmeister2000
who did Gary Leeman and Ray Sheppard play with when they both notched 50?
Sheppard was pretty much a 1 or 2 line guy who got a ton of PP time when he was in Detroit. He didnt have any long term linemates really, but he was always given top line minutes.

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04-09-2005, 11:09 PM
  #60
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As I recall, Nicholls and Gretzky played together on the first powerplay unit though. In 1989 Nicholls had a career-high 21 powerplay goals, good for 4th in the league. That was the only year (aside from 1995) that Nicholls was in the top 10 in powerplay goals. (Source: Dan Diamond, "Total Hockey")

While Nicholls and Gretzky played on the same team, Nicholls scored 97 goals (70 with the '89 Kings and 27 with the '90 Kings, before getting traded mid-season). Gretzky assisted on 40 of them (41%). (Source: http://nhl.com/hockeyu/history/gretz...stsplayer.html). To put this into perspective, Gretzky assisted on 36% of Robitaille's goals, 31% of Anderson's and 26% of Messier's, when they were on the same team. (Yes, I know they didn't always play on the same line).

Also, while this is admitedly a very small sample size, Nicholls played 11 playoff games with Gretzky and scored 7 goals. Gretzky assisted on 5 of them (71%).

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Old
04-10-2005, 03:51 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
As I recall, Nicholls and Gretzky played together on the first powerplay unit though. In 1989 Nicholls had a career-high 21 powerplay goals, good for 4th in the league. That was the only year (aside from 1995) that Nicholls was in the top 10 in powerplay goals. (Source: Dan Diamond, "Total Hockey")

While Nicholls and Gretzky played on the same team, Nicholls scored 97 goals (70 with the '89 Kings and 27 with the '90 Kings, before getting traded mid-season). Gretzky assisted on 40 of them (41%). (Source: http://nhl.com/hockeyu/history/gretz...stsplayer.html). To put this into perspective, Gretzky assisted on 36% of Robitaille's goals, 31% of Anderson's and 26% of Messier's, when they were on the same team. (Yes, I know they didn't always play on the same line).

Also, while this is admitedly a very small sample size, Nicholls played 11 playoff games with Gretzky and scored 7 goals. Gretzky assisted on 5 of them (71%).
returning to the original discussion, if you are crediting those 21 pp goals to wayne, did bernie pull the other 49 out of his ass? fill me in, statistician.

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04-10-2005, 11:48 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_made
returning to the original discussion, if you are crediting those 21 pp goals to wayne, did bernie pull the other 49 out of his ass? fill me in, statistician.
I simply pointed out the fact that during the only full season when Nicholls played with Gretzky on the powerplay, he had by far his best year in terms of powerplay goals (both in terms of number of goals scored, and rank compared to the rest of the league). It's hardly unreasonable to suggest that playing with the greatest playmaker of all time helped Nicholls score more goals. That's not an insult to Nicholls--the same can be said about Kurri, Anderson, Robitaille and many other players who were stars players even without Gretzky. (And, for the record, I'm not "crediting" those 21 ppg goals to Gretzky, but I am saying that he improved Nicholls' production by some unknown extent).

Nicholls scored 57 (out of 97) goals without the help of Gretzky. He was still a good goal-scorer on his own. But it's also true that Gretzky's presence on the King's powerplay unit was a huge help, and he relied on Gretzky more than Anderson, Messier and Robitaille did (but less than Kurri).


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 04-10-2005 at 12:15 PM.
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Old
04-10-2005, 02:16 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_made
returning to the original discussion, if you are crediting those 21 pp goals to wayne, did bernie pull the other 49 out of his ass? fill me in, statistician.

Do you always need to be rude to make a point??

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Old
04-10-2005, 11:14 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Do you always need to be rude to make a point??
works on you. by the way, i'm a kings fan; am i supposed to not defend bernie?

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Old
04-11-2005, 05:47 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by silver_made
works on you. by the way, i'm a kings fan; am i supposed to not defend bernie?

Might help if you'd ever seen him play, which you admittedly didn't, then the passion might explain the impoliteness..

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Old
04-11-2005, 09:25 AM
  #66
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Anyone who plays center on a team with Gretzky also benefits from matchups. Nicholls would seldom see #1 centers against him.

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