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CSN Philadelphia Loophole Closed: talks begin -->

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Old
08-01-2010, 01:41 PM
  #26
Bernie Parent 1974
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yes, you'll need Center Ice to get the actual games.

if you are outside of Philly, you can already get the games, but not CSN Philly on Dish / DTV.

if you are in Philly, getting CSN Philly & the games on Dish / DTV will mean you can now drop Comcast Cable, whereas before, inside Philly, getting Dish / DTV for the Flyers was NOT an option.

truly a big deal nationwide


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 08-01-2010 at 01:50 PM.
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08-01-2010, 02:09 PM
  #27
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So potentially people with DirecTV with Center Ice could see home coverage, but those without Center Ice can see post game/pre-game, etc. and not the games since they will likely be blacked out?

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08-01-2010, 02:40 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
if you are in Philly, getting CSN Philly & the games on Dish / DTV will mean you can now drop Comcast Cable, whereas before, inside Philly, getting Dish / DTV for the Flyers was NOT an option.
Intriguing.

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08-01-2010, 03:02 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
yes, you'll need Center Ice to get the actual games.

if you are outside of Philly, you can already get the games, but not CSN Philly on Dish / DTV.

if you are in Philly, getting CSN Philly & the games on Dish / DTV will mean you can now drop Comcast Cable, whereas before, inside Philly, getting Dish / DTV for the Flyers was NOT an option.

truly a big deal nationwide
Question:

We are talking about CSN (ComcastSporstNet)here... There is also TCN (TheComcastChannel) that carries games not on CSN or local over the air channels. This means a lot when the Flyers and Phillies are playing or Sixers and Flyers or Phillies... There are several Flyers games per season that are on TCN, as well as re-aired games.

The cost of Comcast is going through the roof and increases yearly, and frankly the quality and problems in my area is bothersome... Fios and Satellite Dish are I believe more reasonable and the quality and reception in populated areas without obstruction can't be any worse than Comcast, I'm certain.

When Fios comes to my area I'm seriously thinking about switching... and given a Satellite option I would surley shop around.

I know that Fios already has CSN and it looks like the Satellites may soon also... my question is; Will TCN be available also with CSN? If not I would be facing several missed Flyers game. Since I attend over half the Home Games anyway, the potential saving could be enough to actually purchase the additional TCN games that I wouldn't already be attending.

Bottom line (less wordy version haha)... Is TCN included in this deal?

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08-01-2010, 07:03 PM
  #30
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
So potentially people with DirecTV with Center Ice could see home coverage, but those without Center Ice can see post game/pre-game, etc. and not the games since they will likely be blacked out?
once CSN is on DTV, yes. you are correct.

games WILL be blacked out without Center Ice. [unless you live in philly, i think, not 100% sure - DTV gives you your local regional sports channel in your base package]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Question:

We are talking about CSN (ComcastSporstNet)here...

Bottom line (less wordy version haha)... Is TCN included in this deal?
yes.

I'm not sure ... I suspect Comcast will do everything it can to NOT include TCN ..... why? because the more Flyers games it can put on TCN, the more people will think that they should not dump Comcast.

BUT: since CSN Philly will be on DTV & the Flyers games are already on DTV with Center Ice, there'll be no reason not to dump Comcast.
Games on TCN will only mean that you might only get the opponent feed on a few extra games

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08-01-2010, 07:31 PM
  #31
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Fios has tcn so I would assume dish would eventually pick that up too.

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08-01-2010, 10:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
yes.

I'm not sure ... I suspect Comcast will do everything it can to NOT include TCN ..... why? because the more Flyers games it can put on TCN, the more people will think that they should not dump Comcast.

BUT: since CSN Philly will be on DTV & the Flyers games are already on DTV with Center Ice, there'll be no reason not to dump Comcast.
Games on TCN will only mean that you might only get the opponent feed on a few extra games
TCN is the ace in the hole as I see it... If Comcast can keep that as their own channel that it does not HAVE share, it may be able to keep customers that otherwise would flee.

... As per keeping both; the main reason I would be leaving Comcast is the rising cost and the fact that it is already too high and is more expensive than the Satellite Providers, as I understand it -- the problems and quality is secondary since it is the Devil I know, and I imagine they all have their troubles -- I assume if I had to pay the Satellite Provider their basic and tier rates plus buy Center Ice... AND also pay extra for Comcast, as I imagine it will not be included in their rates being they have to fork over big bucks to Comcast for the Rights... I would be back into the expensive category once again.

Being a customer that gets all the Philadelphia Sports presently, I am not in the same boat as those being shut out of them... If I can't save considerable money in a move, I won't switch. I would then rather feed Comcast who would then have the Capital to fund the above Cap operations of the Flyers and Sixers.

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08-01-2010, 10:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Fios has tcn so I would assume dish would eventually pick that up too.
Thanks for that info.

I was under the impression that that was not the case... If TCN is included I imagine Fios and Dish et al would be cheaper than the exorbitant Comcast rates that continues to soar. Possibly this would make Comcast reconsider their rates and either reduce them or at least hold them static for a while... Fat chance on that though, I think.

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08-02-2010, 11:48 AM
  #34
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You know what, SCREW Dish and DirectTV, let them make their own cable sports show and air it in Philly or wherever they want. If they are worried about not being able to compete with a local cable company because that cable company FUNDS THEIR OWN LOCAL PROGRAMMING, then too freaking bad. If you want Dish, then pay for Center ice, the MLB package, or whatever you want.


Think of it this way, a company you are in direct competition with for public contracts is basically trying to FORCE you to help them take costomers from you. Just imagine if you had your own company that you have worked say 20 years to build up, some new guy opens up a new company across the street from you offering not quite as good of service as you can but the government comes in and FORCES you to hand over 1/2 you clients to the new guy just to help him out. They are saying that it doesn't matter that you spent the last 20 years building your business and repore with your clients, they claim that this gives you an "unfair" advantage and to "level the playing field" you have to help out your competition. That's just ****ing retarded.

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08-02-2010, 03:13 PM
  #35
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As much as I am hoping for successful negotiations that brings CSN (et.al.) to Directv, I certainly agree with most of the free market arguments. I think if Directv and others wanted to increase their Philly area market share they could come up with solutions to retain or attract customers. That is what Directv did last year to retain hockey fans during the VS. dispute. If you complained to the retention department you were given NHL Center Ice. Until the day they settled the VS contract.

Maybe there are legal issues but perhaps they could do something similar. "Hello Mr. Flyers fan, if you join Directv we will include Flyer games on NHL Center Ice as part of your subscription."

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08-02-2010, 03:19 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
As much as I am hoping for successful negotiations that brings CSN (et.al.) to Directv, I certainly agree with most of the free market arguments. I think if Directv and others wanted to increase their Philly area market share they could come up with solutions to retain or attract customers. That is what Directv did last year to retain hockey fans during the VS. dispute. If you complained to the retention department you were given NHL Center Ice. Until the day they settled the VS contract.

Maybe there are legal issues but perhaps they could do something similar. "Hello Mr. Flyers fan, if you join Directv we will include Flyer games on NHL Center Ice as part of your subscription."
Complaining/threatening to leave always gets you free **** with cable/satellite providers. Its the American way.

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08-02-2010, 03:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You know what, SCREW Dish and DirectTV, let them make their own cable sports show and air it in Philly or wherever they want. If they are worried about not being able to compete with a local cable company because that cable company FUNDS THEIR OWN LOCAL PROGRAMMING, then too freaking bad. If you want Dish, then pay for Center ice, the MLB package, or whatever you want.


Think of it this way, a company you are in direct competition with for public contracts is basically trying to FORCE you to help them take costomers from you. Just imagine if you had your own company that you have worked say 20 years to build up, some new guy opens up a new company across the street from you offering not quite as good of service as you can but the government comes in and FORCES you to hand over 1/2 you clients to the new guy just to help him out. They are saying that it doesn't matter that you spent the last 20 years building your business and repore with your clients, they claim that this gives you an "unfair" advantage and to "level the playing field" you have to help out your competition. That's just ****ing retarded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFO View Post
As much as I am hoping for successful negotiations that brings CSN (et.al.) to Directv, I certainly agree with most of the free market arguments. I think if Directv and others wanted to increase their Philly area market share they could come up with solutions to retain or attract customers. That is what Directv did last year to retain hockey fans during the VS. dispute. If you complained to the retention department you were given NHL Center Ice. Until the day they settled the VS contract.

Maybe there are legal issues but perhaps they could do something similar. "Hello Mr. Flyers fan, if you join Directv we will include Flyer games on NHL Center Ice as part of your subscription."
Careful guys, that Commie BS is going to get Bernie mad at you.

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08-02-2010, 07:29 PM
  #38
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08-02-2010, 10:06 PM
  #39
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You know what, SCREW Dish and DirectTV, let them make their own cable sports show and air it in Philly or wherever they want.
maybe you should petition the FCC, as they feel otherwise. I'm just reporting the facts on what the situation is ..... I'm no longer going to debate 'right' or 'wrong', I'm just keeping us all updated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
TCN is the ace in the hole as I see it... If Comcast can keep that as their own channel that it does not HAVE share, it may be able to keep customers that otherwise would flee.
I don't agree: Flyers games will still be on Center Ice for the TCN games, you just wouldn't get the Flyers feed for these.

I'm certain about this for Non Philly residents. With the Sports Pack, you'd get CSN Philly.


as for Philly residents, I'm not sure if those few TCN games would be blacked out in Philly.
as your local RSN, you'd get CSN Philly.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 08-02-2010 at 10:56 PM.
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08-03-2010, 01:39 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
maybe you should petition the FCC, as they feel otherwise. I'm just reporting the facts on what the situation is ..... I'm no longer going to debate 'right' or 'wrong', I'm just keeping us all updated.



I don't agree: Flyers games will still be on Center Ice for the TCN games, you just wouldn't get the Flyers feed for these.

I'm certain about this for Non Philly residents. With the Sports Pack, you'd get CSN Philly.


as for Philly residents, I'm not sure if those few TCN games would be blacked out in Philly.
as your local RSN, you'd get CSN Philly.
You honestly believe that Comcast Customers would switch to satellite to save money and then turn around and give back the saved money to Center Ice?... My point was that many people would stay with Comcast to get 100% of the Flyers games between CSN, Over the Air Broadcasts, Versus and TCN... TCN being games they have a monopoly with... rather than switch and purchase Center Ice -- getting the opposing feed on those games -- I know I am not going to switch and buy Center Ice... As I said in an earlier post I'd consider switching and taking that saved money to buy tickets to the TCN games that I don't already have tickets for.

The way I see it any monopoly Comcast has is a way to keep at least some customers on board... It make perfect sense for them to have fought tooth and nail to keep the CSN/TCN games from the competition... As alluded to by another poster here; would Pat's Steaks allow Geno's to sell their Cheese Steaks when they were getting off the ground? Would DC Comics allow Marvel Comics to print Superman stories in their Spiderman Magazines?Would Army allow their Mule to parade around Navy's sidelines at the Linc? ... I think not.

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08-03-2010, 05:19 PM
  #41
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
You honestly believe that Comcast Customers would switch to satellite to save money and then turn around and give back the saved money to Center Ice?... My point was that many people would stay with Comcast to get 100% of the Flyers games
non philly residents already get that. they just can't get CSN Philly.

Philly residents: may [repeat may] have an issue for the 8 or so TCN games. TCN has not been mentioned. we also do not know if TCN games would be blacked out in Philly [because they normally air on CSN] I think it depends on if TCN games are transmitted with Satellite technology [as most CSN games are].

as for your debate about monopolies etc etc, I'm not interested in debating you. I'm just reporting the latest updates.

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08-03-2010, 05:44 PM
  #42
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Oh, Bernie, you know you want to debate him about monopolies.

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08-03-2010, 06:13 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
non philly residents already get that. they just can't get CSN Philly.

Philly residents: may [repeat may] have an issue for the 8 or so TCN games. TCN has not been mentioned. we also do not know if TCN games would be blacked out in Philly [because they normally air on CSN] I think it depends on if TCN games are transmitted with Satellite technology [as most CSN games are].

as for your debate about monopolies etc etc, I'm not interested in debating you. I'm just reporting the latest updates.
Sorry, I was more in the mood for a light-hearted discussion... not a debate.

Opinions aside, my point was that I fear Comcast will play hardball and withhold those TCN games unless forced by the Government to make them also available... Also my point was that I would not be interested in paying more by buying Center Ice; my aim is to lower my Cable bill without missing ANY Philadelphia sports team game that I want to see.

My barber recently switched to FIOS and at that time I believe I asked him about CN8/TCN and he said he didn't have it... I suppose he could have been mistaken, being the service was new to him, or my memory is incorrect... What I'd like to know, in order to weigh any future options, is what is included in the Comast negotiations and what they had to allow FIOS to provide their customers. Capitalism is not in play here, my viewing options are.

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08-03-2010, 06:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Sorry, I was more in the mood for a light-hearted discussion... not a debate.

Opinions aside, my point was that I fear Comcast will play hardball and withhold those TCN games unless forced by the Government to make them also available... Also my point was that I would not be interested in paying more by buying Center Ice; my aim is to lower my Cable bill without missing ANY Philadelphia sports team game that I want to see.

My barber recently switched to FIOS and at that time I believe I asked him about CN8/TCN and he said he didn't have it... I suppose he could have been mistaken, being the service was new to him, or my memory is incorrect... What I'd like to know, in order to weigh any future options, is what is included in the Comast negotiations and what they had to allow FIOS to provide their customers. Capitalism is not in play here, my viewing options are.
Pretty sure they had to make everything available to FIOS, it's just a question of whether they feel like paying for it. TCN isn't worth it to Verizon for the handful of Phils, Flyers, and Sixers games it shows over the course of the year.

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08-03-2010, 06:51 PM
  #45
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Any update on flyers games being blacked out in state college? Unfortuantely I have to do a fifth year up there this year... meaning another year of blacked out CSN during flyers games.

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08-03-2010, 07:00 PM
  #46
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Pretty sure they had to make everything available to FIOS, it's just a question of whether they feel like paying for it. TCN isn't worth it to Verizon for the handful of Phils, Flyers, and Sixers games it shows over the course of the year.
Thanks, if that's the case I'll just have to see if they are that much cheaper than Comcast... Frankly, I can't see how they wouldn't be... I want all the games, but with the rising cost I may have to take the alternative measures (attending games) or forgo the games... or maybe Comcast will see there is competition and hold the cost down. I may be wrong but I'd think that a great chunk of their customers have family members who follow Flyers and Phillies pretty closely... People who I personally know that are either not sports fans or are not Flyers/Phillies fans have have already switched to Satellite.

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08-03-2010, 07:05 PM
  #47
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Opinions aside, my point was that I fear Comcast will play hardball and withhold those TCN games unless forced by the Government to make them also available
totally agreed, of course Comcast would.

but, if you live in Philly: you will NOT need Centre Ice for the Flyers games:

I 'live' in NYC as far as DTV is concerned.
I do NOT have the NBA package.
I get MSG, Yes, SNY, as my RSNs.
I get the Knicks & Nets on those channels, without the NBA pkg.

i suspect if Comcast isn't required to make TCN available, they will probably still be obligated to provide the few Flyers games on TCN.

it remains to be determined, though, hopefully soon

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08-03-2010, 07:07 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by kevinjd182 View Post
Any update on flyers games being blacked out in state college? Unfortuantely I have to do a fifth year up there this year... meaning another year of blacked out CSN during flyers games.
that's really a separate NHL / CI issue [so i haven't even been looking for that info, sorry]

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08-03-2010, 07:13 PM
  #49
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Verizon hopes to have to have a decision from the FCC on its complaint by the start of pre-season basketball and hockey, which start in October.
At least one cable operator appears to be giving up its fight to hold on to local sports programming in light of the new regulation. In June, Cox Communications said it hired Fox Networks to negotiate licensing deals with competitors to broadcast Padre baseball games in San Diego County. Cox holds exclusive rights to broadcast these games in the area. No deals have been reached yet, and Padres content is still not available on AT&T’s network, a Cox spokesman said.

It could be another six months before the FCC makes its decision in each of these complaints. Even if the FCC rules in favor of Dish, AT&T, or Verizon Communications in each of these complaints, the companies will likely be given about 30 days to negotiate some kind of contract. What’s more, the cable companies could also choose to appeal the matter in court, which may further delay access to this sports content.

http://voteupindia.com/telcos-and-sa...gnal-strength/

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08-03-2010, 07:34 PM
  #50
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There needs to be a division between content and delivery. And under FCC law there essentially is, but comcast was able to get away with it because of their transport method., which really was a silly distinction that should have never existed. IMO this is no question the right move and absolutely in favor of the consumer. Hopefully this sparks real competition and improves quality of service which is severely lacking in the industry.

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