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Old
08-02-2010, 10:33 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Considering he's 4 years older than Price, has similar stats and plays on a better team.. Yes I think Price is the better goalie
Niemi exceeded his expectations, Price hasn't lived up to his yet. Niemi has a Stanley Cup, last time I checked, Carey was chased out of the playoffs. Niemi took the starting job on his team , Price lost his.

Niemi also stole quite a few games for his team, and never road the talent all the way to the Cup. If a better team meant anything, why did we beat Washington and Pittsburgh?

I'm a Price fan, but can we stop pretending he is the real deal, till he actually delivers on a consistant basis?

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08-02-2010, 10:37 PM
  #77
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If the Habs hadn't signed Auld right away signing both Niemi and Price to 2 - 2.5 each would have been smart, two goalies combined at 4-4.5 million would have been cheaper than Price and Halak together.

Niemi could have been a good trading piece come March too at the deadline.

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08-02-2010, 10:41 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Niemi exceeded his expectations, Price hasn't lived up to his yet. Niemi has a Stanley Cup, last time I checked, Carey was chased out of the playoffs. Niemi took the starting job on his team , Price lost his.

Niemi also stole quite a few games for his team, and never road the talent all the way to the Cup. If a better team meant anything, why did we beat Washington and Pittsburgh?

I'm a Price fan, but can we stop pretending he is the real deal, till he actually delivers on a consistant basis?
Go look who Niemi beat and then go look who Price beat out.

PS Osgood has like 3 cups Osgood=Brodeur

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08-02-2010, 10:47 PM
  #79
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Niemi in Montreal will not happen, it will look stupid on the part of PG.. why sign alex auld and sanford then... anyways Price if just as good as niemi if not better, only reason niemi played as good as he did was because of the team in front of him...i wouldnt want to waste cap space on him

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08-02-2010, 10:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Niemi exceeded his expectations, Price hasn't lived up to his yet. Niemi has a Stanley Cup, last time I checked, Carey was chased out of the playoffs. Niemi took the starting job on his team , Price lost his.

Niemi also stole quite a few games for his team, and never road the talent all the way to the Cup. If a better team meant anything, why did we beat Washington and Pittsburgh?

I'm a Price fan, but can we stop pretending he is the real deal, till he actually delivers on a consistant basis?
Cool story, bro.

We had a hot goalie and a defensive squad clicking. When people played as they did (against Philadephia), we got our ***** handed to us.

You put Price in Niemi's spot and I doubt Chicago ever struggles en route to the cup. Niemi was anything by spectacular and was almost never called upon to do anything. The only real time they needed a save from in the finals was the first game, which was a barn burner and neither goalie could stop anything, because they were showing their true colours.

Price's expectations far exceeded that of Niemi's. He was expected to be a decent backup, maybe a 1b goalie. Price is expected to be a franchise goalie. Big difference. That's like saying "I expected to get fail a test, but got a C. You expected to get an A and only got a B ? i'm better.

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08-02-2010, 10:53 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Niemi exceeded his expectations, Price hasn't lived up to his yet. Niemi has a Stanley Cup, last time I checked, Carey was chased out of the playoffs. Niemi took the starting job on his team , Price lost his.

Niemi also stole quite a few games for his team, and never road the talent all the way to the Cup. If a better team meant anything, why did we beat Washington and Pittsburgh?

I'm a Price fan, but can we stop pretending he is the real deal, till he actually delivers on a consistant basis?
Its not so much about who is the better goalie right now, because you can have legitimate arguments either way. It comes down to which goalie is the better asset.

Even though Niemi has a cup, I think Price still has better trade value.

Chicago only asks their goalie not to lose games, Niemi did that for the most part. Its alot like what the red wings have been asking out of osgood for the better part of this decade. But you look at what osgood did on teams where they rely more heavily on goalies (St louis and NYI), and he doesn't even have one series win under his belt.

A team like Montreal is not in the class of detroit from years past or in the class of the 09/10 hawks. They require the goalie to be the best player on their team consistently, and while niemi is adequate, I dont see him as the guy who is going to pick the team up on his back and lead the way. At least with price, the potential to do so is there.

That's really the only reason I pick price over Niemi. It doesnt have a whole lot to do with who I think is the better goalie out of the two right now. Although if you were to ask me, I'd say its pretty close atm.

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08-02-2010, 11:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
If Price asks for more than $2 million a season, he needs his head examined.
Not that you had any to start with but you basically lost all credibility with this post. You've got such big blinders on that you don't even think. I consider myself a Halakian, I wanted him to get more playing time all year long.

But if Carey Price doesn't ask for more than $2m a season, then he doesn't belong in the NHL. He will ask for at least $2m, heck I'd even expect him to ask for $3m. That doesn't mean he'll get it, but he's be a freakin moran if he didn't ask.

Do you honestly expect him to say please only pay me the league minimum? Give your head a shake.

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08-02-2010, 11:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Cool story, bro.

We had a hot goalie and a defensive squad clicking. When people played as they did (against Philadephia), we got our ***** handed to us.

You put Price in Niemi's spot and I doubt Chicago ever struggles en route to the cup. Niemi was anything by spectacular and was almost never called upon to do anything. The only real time they needed a save from in the finals was the first game, which was a barn burner and neither goalie could stop anything, because they were showing their true colours.

Price's expectations far exceeded that of Niemi's. He was expected to be a decent backup, maybe a 1b goalie. Price is expected to be a franchise goalie. Big difference. That's like saying "I expected to get fail a test, but got a C. You expected to get an A and only got a B ? i'm better.
Oh wow, Niemi let in a bunch of goals in one game show that must of showed his true colours. I guess Price showed his true colours last year when he let in 7 goals in a regular season game -- not even any pressure! Halak showed his too.. GARBAGE.

I also know that Niemi didn't have a good SCF, but he still got the job done. What's better at the end of the day - personal stats or a Stanley Cup ring? I'm taking the ring. It's not like Price has done any better in a playoff situation - in fact, he's been much much worse.

Expectations mean absolutely nothing after the draft. They may give a player a shorter or longer leash but Niemi won a freaking Stanley Cup championship in his first NHL season. Yes, he's older than Price. Yes, Price may end up better. But expectations as far as draft position mean absolutely nothing at this point - or at least they shouldn't.

I prefer Price to Niemi, but your post just downplays the situation way to much for me not to comment.

I hate the word "franchise" tossed around for Price. IMO, as far as goaltenders are concerned, that's very rarely possible in this day and age. Most goalies have a few great years and end up falling behind to a young rookie or get moved. Luongo is apparently a franchise goalie, but what exactly has that done for him?

The chance that Price becomes a "franchise" goalie is about 1 in 1000. Yes, I made up those odds myself but they're pretty accurate as far as I'm concerned. I'm confident he'll be a good goalie for many years, but I'm not going to toss around the word franchise.

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08-03-2010, 12:40 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Niemi exceeded his expectations, Price hasn't lived up to his yet. Niemi has a Stanley Cup, last time I checked, Carey was chased out of the playoffs. Niemi took the starting job on his team , Price lost his.

Niemi also stole quite a few games for his team, and never road the talent all the way to the Cup. If a better team meant anything, why did we beat Washington and Pittsburgh?

I'm a Price fan, but can we stop pretending he is the real deal, till he actually delivers on a consistant basis?
Well, if Huet was our Backup and Halak was Niemi's backup, well, you've been watching hockey for a long time, you tell me what would have went down. He doesn't have to be the real deal. People have to understand that not only is Price not always going to be the ebst goalie around, but when he's playing bad, he's still not the worst goalie in the league, and his worst, is a mediocre to average goalie, which is what Niemi is.

But then again, the spectrum froma great goalie to a crap goalie is thin to non-existant. With equipment, and defencemen getting better and better, the only franchise goalie in the league right now are Ryan Miller and Henrik Lundqvist. I don't consider Bryzgalov, Halak, Rask, Brodeur (too old), or anyone to be a go-to goalie. They'll stop the pucks, but they won't steal the show every night like franchise players (Crosby, OV, Malkin, Doughty, etc) do. Even Ryan Miller showed he can't steal the show in the playoffs. Not saying he sucks, but my tl;dr is that in our age, shooters are too good to make a goalie a franchise player, and equipment and defenders are too good to make a goalie look bad.
I guess it's a bell curve with Toskala, Huet and a handfull of backups on one end, 85% of goalies in the middle, and 2 or 3 guys on the other end.


Last edited by InglewoodJack: 08-03-2010 at 12:49 AM.
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Old
08-03-2010, 12:49 AM
  #85
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Halak 2.0

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08-03-2010, 01:02 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Cool story, bro.

You put Price in Niemi's spot and I doubt Chicago ever struggles en route to the cup. Niemi was anything by spectacular and was almost never called upon to do anything.
There is no way you watched the playoffs, because he stole many games , on many nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Its not so much about who is the better goalie right now, because you can have legitimate arguments either way. It comes down to which goalie is the better asset..
But this debate was about who is the better goalie right now, which I still can't see how anyone can say CP is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
People have to understand that not only is Price not always going to be the ebst goalie around, but when he's playing bad, he's still not the worst goalie in the league, and his worst, is a mediocre to average goalie, which is what Niemi is.
That's the thing though, when Price isn't on his game, he is terrible, more often than not.

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08-03-2010, 01:40 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
There is no way you watched the playoffs, because he stole many games , on many nights.



But this debate was about who is the better goalie right now, which I still can't see how anyone can say CP is.



That's the thing though, when Price isn't on his game, he is terrible, more often than not.
His terrible isn't that far off from Niemi's actual play, and put Price on Chicago, and **** gets real.

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08-03-2010, 01:54 AM
  #88
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Niemi's contract is similar to wbat ellis got and they couldn't come to terms with the latter so I seriously doubt it.

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08-03-2010, 02:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Well thank for proving my point that we have enough cap space to sign Price.

All big market teams hit the cap limit with their final roster
55.122 Cap hit was not for final roster. Its for 20 players, so even after Price, you will still need couple players more. Subban +(Weber/Carle/Picard/Maxwell) all make more than league minimum, so any combination of those will add about 1.5-1.7 million. And having a little bit (million?) of breathing room under the Cap is propably a good idea, if theres a need for deadline moves.

Thats why Price should have about the same cap number he had last year (2.2M).


Last edited by Marksman: 08-03-2010 at 02:19 AM.
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08-03-2010, 02:13 AM
  #90
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I don't think so. You're probably right about Washington so I think Philly and San Jose. Edmonton and Ottawa, nope. Ottawa has Elliot and Leclaire, what are they gonna do with them? They traded Vermette for Leclaire, they're not dropping him now. Edmonton is going young to accumulate draft picks. I don't think they care if they have a few mediocre years. Niemi would be unnecessary salary for them right now so I don't see them being interested. They have Khabibuhlin and Dubnyk.
San Jose just signed Niitymaki, so why Niemi?

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08-03-2010, 02:16 AM
  #91
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And you take that from?

Ottawa and Philly would have to trade-up to make it happen. They're both at the limit (Ottawa has 800k left to fill the 23rd spot).

Montreal could offer the arbitration amount to Niemi and they'd be at the cap limit with 23 players. But Montreal would then need to trade Price or simply let him walk in January.

Edmonton has the cap space, but they still have the Bulin wall on contract for two more seasons after the one that's coming.
Philly need to waive Cote & Boucher (for exemple) and can sign Niemi.

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08-03-2010, 02:19 AM
  #92
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Ill take a stanley cup ring winner over a calder cup one
I suggest you to pick Chris Osgood

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08-03-2010, 02:26 AM
  #93
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San Jose just signed Niitymaki, so why Niemi?
Because Niemi is way better? And he doesnt have hip problems Antero has?

I could really see San Jose poaching again, as they tried with Hjalmarsson.

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08-03-2010, 02:26 AM
  #94
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I, personally, would take the risk of Price flourishing somewhere else. If I were Pierre Ghautier I would realize that he doesn't like markets this big. That brilliant half of a season he had stopped as soon as he got a taste of the playoffs in Montreal. Niemi proved he can play when the pressure's on in a now revived big market. He had some bad games, just like Halak, but he played well when it mattered most. I don't want to see Price let in a wrist shot from the top of the circle late in a game seven like I know he will. Price is an egg. If handled properly, he becomes a delicious omelet. But if you drop him, he shatters. A rookie goaltender should never play in the playoffs in Montreal, unless of course he is a freak of nature like Roy.

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08-03-2010, 03:24 AM
  #95
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Because Niemi is way better? And he doesnt have hip problems Antero has?

I could really see San Jose poaching again, as they tried with Hjalmarsson.
So they just signed a Fin goalie at $ 2.0 millions to be a backup? I don't think so, when SJ signed him, Wilson clearly said he was the #1 and Greiss will play around 20 games. So Niemi in SJ? No way. I think Philly are most likely.

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08-03-2010, 03:29 AM
  #96
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I, personally, would take the risk of Price flourishing somewhere else. If I were Pierre Ghautier I would realize that he doesn't like markets this big. That brilliant half of a season he had stopped as soon as he got a taste of the playoffs in Montreal. Niemi proved he can play when the pressure's on in a now revived big market. He had some bad games, just like Halak, but he played well when it mattered most. I don't want to see Price let in a wrist shot from the top of the circle late in a game seven like I know he will. Price is an egg. If handled properly, he becomes a delicious omelet. But if you drop him, he shatters. A rookie goaltender should never play in the playoffs in Montreal, unless of course he is a freak of nature like Roy.
Price is only 23, Niemi 28, if Shero in Pittsburgh would have thought like you, Marc-Andre Fleury wouldn't be playing in NHL right now and be sucessfull. Let's just give some time to Carey, let's see how he will play a full season a the #1 with no pressure. In June 2011 we will be able to judge him.

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08-03-2010, 05:48 AM
  #97
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Philly need to waive Cote & Boucher (for exemple) and can sign Niemi.
That would give them 1,4 something to sign Niemi, which is half his arbitration price which IMO would really not suffice. And then they'd have a 22 man roster tight at the cap which will be a problem when they get injuries.

Montreal could sign Niemi more easily than Philly, they have the space to sign him at his arbitration price and don't have to trade anyone as Price is RFA and unsigned. You're assertion didn't make any sense, you just took that from god knows where, with no true logic behind it.

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08-03-2010, 05:54 AM
  #98
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Why? Because they have Varlamov and Neuvirth? Both with starting upside and a really good looking Holtby in the minors. This makes as much sense as Niemi to Montreal. Guess, even less.
Your username is odd. A reference to what if I may ask?

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08-03-2010, 06:13 AM
  #99
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So they just signed a Fin goalie at $ 2.0 millions to be a backup? I don't think so, when SJ signed him, Wilson clearly said he was the #1 and Greiss will play around 20 games. So Niemi in SJ? No way. I think Philly are most likely.
Niittymaki was signed over a month ago. That was before Hawks declined and Niemi became unrestricted. And didnt Philly just recently re-sign Leighton, almost for same money as Nitty? Personally I dont see big difference, except Flyers are already maxed out in payroll.

But I guess we will see...

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08-03-2010, 06:52 AM
  #100
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How quickly people forget, or maybe they didn't watch Chicago that much.

Chigaco had quite a bit of trouble against Nashville and they needed Niemi to be very good and he delivered. Against San Jose Niemi was excellent. He won 16 play-off games in a single season. He was no passenger on that Chicago team. If Chicago had the cap space they would have agreed to his arbitration award. Niemi and Byfuglien are the two important pieces that Chicago lost this summer, not irreplaceable pieces, but important pieces still.

Niemi in Montreal? No, don't need him. Price is better and probably cheaper. However, for the Habs Niemi being available is a good thing. Price no longer is the only long-term #1 option out there for available for us, that should help us a bit in Price's contract talks.

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