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Old
08-03-2010, 07:05 AM
  #26
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
Not trying to give you a BS reply. All I'm saying is we have a lot of young players who will need to be resigned. I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't want Chara or w/e, but I just don't want us to screw the cap just to fill a spot on D when we're lacking on O. Say whatever you want, but that money would be much better if used on a forward.
We would still have money for a top6 forward, because if we need another forward this will mean none of the kids would break out, hence they will get less then what I marked. If they get less, then we would have 5-6 mil to let go AK and sign someone else.

First thing you should do if you,re going to argue over cap space is check my other post where I lay it out clearly, instead of going on speculative arguments like "the kids we have to re-sign" (OMG!)

Second thing you should do is check the FA market for forwards next season. If we wanna make this team better next year, it's Dmen we should aim for as we have old ones who are gonna go away and the market has more of them than good forwards, and we have many young forwards coming in too.

And yes it is a BS reply as you use speculative arguments without going into detail. It's easy to dismiss something just by saying "oh we're not in the same league as the other teams", "oh we have young players to re-sign". You gave me the usual arguments given when someone didn't take time to analyze the situation fully and rather goes with often spread myths around the board.

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08-03-2010, 07:37 AM
  #27
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Personnaly i would only let go Hamrlik , Auld & Darche and keep Gill.

I would try to sign Antti Miettinen & Chris Phillips

Lineup :

Pouliot (or Miettinen) - Gomez - Gionta
Cammalleri - Plekanec - Kostitsyn
Miettinen (Or Pouliot) - Eller - Lapierre
Pyatt - Boyd - Moen

Markov - Spacek
Phillips - Subban
Gill - Gorges

Price

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Old
08-03-2010, 07:37 AM
  #28
BoNeS42
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Well, I'd rather not get too excited about signing him rather then cry because we didn't sign him come july 1st. That's what I'm looking at right now :

Gomez / Gionta / Pouliot Breakout year or UFA (That's 12.3 millions without the 3rd player, depending on Pouliot, I put 16millions for that line. That means Pouliot has a great season and we don't have to look for a solid FA for more then 5+)

Cammalleri / Plekanec / Kostitsyn or UFA ( 11millions without counting Kostitsyn. If Kostitsyn is still a Habs by the end of the season, it's because he did well and will get around 5, if not, we gotta look for a UFA because we have no one really ready to step in. )

We're at 32 millions with 6 players already. Now add Eller and Moen for 2.7 millions.

Now take a look at the defense.

Markov if resigned will be for around 5.5
Spacek is 3.8
Subban 875k
Gorges will make around 3.5

We're now at 48,375 millions with 8 forwards and 4 defenseman.

Now comes Price. Let's give him 2.7millions we're at 51.075 and we still need to sign 1 G - 3 D - 5 F

Now you also have to think about the salary that Subban will make the year after since his EL contract will be over and keep space for that.

That's in the worst situation if none of our youngers are able to fill the void on the first 2 lines. If they do then I guess we might have the space. Time will tell, but don't call me dumb because I don't think it's gonna happen, I have a different PoV, that's it.

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Old
08-03-2010, 08:00 AM
  #29
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IMO whatever happens to the D will have much to do with the performance of Markov. If he continues to be injury ridden there could be bigger changes than one would think.

If Gorges wants anything over 3 (even that is too much) I'd maybe say goodbye unless he puts up better offensive numbers.

I wouldn't count out Hamrlik at a reduced rate or Gill (definitely not both) depending on the progress of the youngsters, Spacek's fate and the availability of UFA's. Somehow I see Martin being very content with experience on the blueline.

I know Hamrlik is overpaid but at the same time I don't think his contract is the albatross that many think it is. Sometimes I get the impression his contract gone means money in the bank for something else but his position will have to be filled and to do it right the Habs IMO will have to spend at least 4 mil if not more to get the same skill set.

I kinda feel the same way about the Gomez contract. He's overpaid but diversified in what he does.


Last edited by swimmer77: 08-03-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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Old
08-03-2010, 08:06 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
Well, I'd rather not get too excited about signing him rather then cry because we didn't sign him come july 1st. That's what I'm looking at right now :

Gomez / Gionta / Pouliot Breakout year or UFA (That's 12.3 millions without the 3rd player, depending on Pouliot, I put 16millions for that line. That means Pouliot has a great season and we don't have to look for a solid FA for more then 5+)

Cammalleri / Plekanec / Kostitsyn or UFA ( 11millions without counting Kostitsyn. If Kostitsyn is still a Habs by the end of the season, it's because he did well and will get around 5, if not, we gotta look for a UFA because we have no one really ready to step in. )

We're at 32 millions with 6 players already. Now add Eller and Moen for 2.7 millions.

Now take a look at the defense.

Markov if resigned will be for around 5.5
Spacek is 3.8
Subban 875k
Gorges will make around 3.5

We're now at 48,375 millions with 8 forwards and 4 defenseman.

Now comes Price. Let's give him 2.7millions we're at 51.075 and we still need to sign 1 G - 3 D - 5 F

Now you also have to think about the salary that Subban will make the year after since his EL contract will be over and keep space for that.

That's in the worst situation if none of our youngers are able to fill the void on the first 2 lines. If they do then I guess we might have the space. Time will tell, but don't call me dumb because I don't think it's gonna happen, I have a different PoV, that's it.
1- I didn't call you dumb

2- You completely leave out my own analysis and make mistakes in your own.

3- Take my first post with the salaries and go from there, instead of trying to play the teacher and tell me "look at the defense" and stuff like that. With this, you show me that you haven't looked at the post I mentioned, because you would see that I've already mentioned ALL of those things.

4- Subban will probably be one of the only big players to re-sign in 2012, and the cap raise of that season will be sufficient for that

Also, you don't consider Spacek might be let-go, traded, or boughtout, and it would still fit depending on what Habs management are aiming.

Oh, and finally, Gorges won't make 3,5. Posters have argued over this in another thread, and the concensus is around 2/2,5. You are counting UFA money for a guy who will be RFA. I'm usually very good at projecting salaries, my track record is very good for that, so I think I'll trust myself for Gorges next contract rather than your over-inflated 3,5.

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08-03-2010, 08:11 AM
  #31
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The day Hamrlik is not a Montreal Canadien is going to be one of the happiest days of my Habs fandom. We can disperse his 5.5m cap hit to Subban, Georges, O'Byrne and Markov's raises.

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08-03-2010, 08:16 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Also, you don't consider Spacek might be let-go, traded, or boughtout, and it would still fit depending on what Habs management are aiming.
The only thing to consider would be a trade around the deadline which wouldn't really help us during that season. He's on a 35+ contract, even if retires, his salary will count towards the cap.

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08-03-2010, 08:18 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Supertramp View Post
The day Hamrlik is not a Montreal Canadien is going to be one of the happiest days of my Habs fandom. We can disperse his 5.5m cap hit to Subban, Georges, O'Byrne and Markov's raises.
The day you will not doing a mistake in Gorges, it will be one of the happiest days of my Habs fandom.

Markov will not get a raise.

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Old
08-03-2010, 08:26 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
The only thing to consider would be a trade around the deadline which wouldn't really help us during that season. He's on a 35+ contract, even if retires, his salary will count towards the cap.
OMG. Are you actually capable of reading??? I said "let-go, traded or boughtout"

Where did I say he'll retire??? You don't have to tell he was a 35+ player when he signed, I already knew that. And it's not the only thing to consider because if you can trade him in March, you can trade him in June.

It's friggin crazy how for every single aspect, you create a one-way situation based on speculation. You want to close every possible door so that your POV becomes more realistic. It comes back to what I was saying before. I see all the possibilities, while you restrict reality based on mere speculation.

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08-03-2010, 08:28 AM
  #35
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Exactly.

You said : "let-go, traded or boughtout".

He can't be let-go or boughtout. Why is it even an option for you if it's not an option for the Habs?

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08-03-2010, 08:31 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
Exactly.

You said : "let-go, traded or boughtout".

He can't be let-go or boughtout. Why is it even an option for you if it's not an option for the Habs?
He can be waived (let-go) and he can be bought out next June, stop typing BS.

Like I said, you want to close any door that contradicts your POV, regardless of facts, so that your POV becomes the only possible avenue.

Proof of this is that everytime a valid argument is added, you add some BS argument to stall it, even though your argument doesn't hold any ground.

Next June, Habs can either keep, trade, waive or buyout Spacek. Those are ALL TRUE possibilities.

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08-03-2010, 08:36 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think the Bruins will extend Chara before he becomes a free agent.

I do expect Hamrlik to be gone, but his salary may be mostly absorbed in giving raises to guys like Gorges and Markov and just paying the guy who takes Hamrlik's place in the lineup, and a bit here and there to other young players, perhaps. I wouldn't count on having any great windfall of cap space to spend on a big guy. I mean, who knows, though.
They would want to do that but will Chara want to stay in Boston ?

Chara would be so amazing here. Getting Chara would completely change my view of this team. He's exactly what we're missing on the blue line. Markov, Chara, Subban *drool*.

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Old
08-03-2010, 08:38 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He can be waived (let-go) and he can be bought out next June, stop typing BS.

Like I said, you want to close any door that contradicts your POV, regardless of facts, so that your POV becomes the only possible avenue.

Proof of this is that everytime a valid argument is added, you add some BS argument to stall it, even though your argument doesn't hold any ground.

Next June, Habs can either keep, trade, waive or buyout Spacek. Those are ALL TRUE possibilities.
I don't give a **** about what you think of my PoV, all I'm trying to understand is why do you not realise that there's no point to buyout Spacek. The only positive side of this would be for Molson to save some money, but his salary would still count on the cap for the full duration. Explain me why it's good to do that from a fan pov.

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08-03-2010, 08:40 AM
  #39
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I have a slight suspicion that Spacek will be bought out at that salary after next season. The Habs won't want him back after this season.

Don't flame. I just feel that way. Then we could target a James Wisniewski or someone.
We would still be stuck with his cap hit, so no...

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08-03-2010, 09:21 AM
  #40
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
I don't give a **** about what you think of my PoV, all I'm trying to understand is why do you not realise that there's no point to buyout Spacek. The only positive side of this would be for Molson to save some money, but his salary would still count on the cap for the full duration. Explain me why it's good to do that from a fan pov.
Man, you are thick as they come. You are mixing TWO things.

A retirement would have the Habs pay for the full cap hit for his last season because he signed as a 35 years old.

If he's bought out, the cap hit will be 2/3 of his salary, spread over two seasons, which would mean around 1,3 in cap hit for each of the two seasons, giving us 2,6 more of cap hit for the 2011-2012 season. Buying him out would make us have more cap space, not just Molson who would save money.

You don't seem to know what you are talking about and should just quit because with every added post, you show a little more of how little you seem to know.

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08-03-2010, 09:25 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Agalloch View Post
We would still be stuck with his cap hit, so no...
No we WOULDN'T.

We would have his buyout cap hit, which would be around 1,3 mil for 2011-2012 and 1,3 mil for 2012-2013.

if he retires, THEN we would have to include his full cap hit.

OMG, it seems that people around here get confused easily. Teach them about retirement rules for 35+ contracts and how the cap stays, and then they go confuse this with everything else like buyouts.

The retiremenent rule has NOTHING to do with the buyout rules.

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08-03-2010, 09:26 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Man, you are thick as they come. You are mixing TWO things.

A retirement would have the Habs pay for the full cap hit for his last season because he signed as a 35 years old.

If he's bought out, the cap hit will be 2/3 of his salary, spread over two seasons, which would mean around 1,3 in cap hit for each of the two seasons, giving us 2,6 more of cap hit for the 2011-2012 season. Buying him out would make us have more cap space, not just Molson who would save money.

You don't seem to know what you are talking about and should just quit because with every added post, you show a little more of how little you seem to know.
How do buyouts work?
Teams are entitled to buy out player contracts for a portion of the remaining value of the contract — paid over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. Following are the buyout amounts:

* Younger than age 26 at the time of buyout, 1/3 the remaining value
* Age 26 or older at the time of the buyout, 2/3 the remaining value

The remainder of this explanation assumes the player was not 35 or older when he signed his contract (in which case a buyout saves the team financially but does not reduce the player's cap hit).

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08-03-2010, 09:30 AM
  #43
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Players who sign multi-year contracts when they are age 35 or older (calculated on June 30 of the season the contract begins) count toward the cap under all circumstances, regardless of where (or if) the player is playing. The only cap relief is $100,000 from the player's cap hit if he is assigned to the minors after the first year of the contract.

CBA reference: Section 50.5 (d-i-B-5) (P. 203)
From Capgeek.

Pretty sure you are wrong Ozy.

Even if you go to capgeek's buyout calculator (very useful tool) it states the following:

Quote:
NOTE: Contracts that fall in the "35-plus" category are not included in the buyout calculator because the player's cap hit remains unchanged even after a buyout.


Last edited by Mue: 08-03-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old
08-03-2010, 09:35 AM
  #44
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by BoNeS42 View Post
How do buyouts work?
Teams are entitled to buy out player contracts for a portion of the remaining value of the contract — paid over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. Following are the buyout amounts:

* Younger than age 26 at the time of buyout, 1/3 the remaining value
* Age 26 or older at the time of the buyout, 2/3 the remaining value

The remainder of this explanation assumes the player was not 35 or older when he signed his contract (in which case a buyout saves the team financially but does not reduce the player's cap hit).
Please provide CBA quote as this quote is from NHLscap, and stipulates the rules for the one-time buyouts when teams came into the new CBA. It clearly specifies this is for the one-time buyouts. Please provide the CBA quote with the rule for 35+ that isn't for the one-time buyouts that happened in June 2005.

He can still be waived and let-go, can still be traded.

And anyway, this a detail among 23 players, as I also mentioned keeping Spacek wouldn't be that much of a problem. I included Spacek as you saw the only possibility of having him with the team, when we could trade him or waive him.

But yeah, let's focuse on this one detail, when the rest was wrong.


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Old
08-03-2010, 09:39 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Supertramp View Post
The day Hamrlik is not a Montreal Canadien is going to be one of the happiest days of my Habs fandom. We can disperse his 5.5m cap hit to Subban, Georges, O'Byrne and Markov's raises.
Totally agree. He's been subpar for 2 years and knowing he makes 5.5 mill makes it worse.

We should have buried him in the minors this year and greatly improved our team.

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Old
08-03-2010, 10:25 AM
  #46
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Hamrlik's contract will free up 5.5M$, most of which will be redistributed between Markov, Gorges, O'Byrne and other RFAs.

Don't expect the Habs to go after a 5.5M$ type player once Hamrlik is off the books. I'd like to see Kostitsyn and Pouliot's combined 4.5M$ used on a decent RW tho.

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08-03-2010, 10:29 AM
  #47
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I hope Avtsin and Pacioretty are ready for full time in 2011-2012. That would give our top 9 a needed boost.

A line next season of Pacioretty - Eller - Avtsin would be pretty good on the 3rd line. If we open up room for Eller on the top 2 lines at center, all the better with more cap relief.

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08-03-2010, 10:31 AM
  #48
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It will be a shoping defensemen summer for the Habs with possibly Gill and Hamrlik gone, the Habs has the replace them...

Here's the list of the UFA defensemen...
http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...ion=D&FAType=2

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08-03-2010, 10:33 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
No we WOULDN'T.

We would have his buyout cap hit, which would be around 1,3 mil for 2011-2012 and 1,3 mil for 2012-2013.

if he retires, THEN we would have to include his full cap hit.

OMG, it seems that people around here get confused easily. Teach them about retirement rules for 35+ contracts and how the cap stays, and then they go confuse this with everything else like buyouts.

The retiremenent rule has NOTHING to do with the buyout rules.
I'm sorry but you're confused. Brind'Amour was bought out and his cap hit is still 3,600,000. Brashear will have a cap hit of 1,400,000 with the Thrashers when he will be bought out.

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08-03-2010, 10:33 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I hope Avtsin and Pacioretty are ready for full time in 2011-2012. That would give our top 9 a needed boost.

A line next season of Pacioretty - Eller - Avtsin would be pretty good on the 3rd line. If we open up room for Eller on the top 2 lines at center, all the better with more cap relief.
I have a strong feeling that if anything, they will send Eller to the AHL to get used to play as a winger for a couple of games then move him back up. We have Gomez and Plekanec at center and none of them will be moved or is likely to be moved.

If anything that would make Eller a more complete player. But man, that 3rd line you said makes me drool, I wish that would work lol

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