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08-03-2010, 11:05 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The hostility is because I'm tired of seeing people suggest that we should trade Dubinsky. It's like no matter what he does, it's never enough for some people.

So what if he doesn't become a 1st liner? Teams need 2nd liners too, and it's not like we've got a lot of those either. Callahan may never be a legit 2nd liner. Should we trade him too? What about Artie, he may never be better than a 3rd liner. Should we trade him now in a package to get a top 6 guy? Hell, Kreider may never even play in the NHL. Let's trade him for a vet.

Dubinsky is not part of the problem. He's a top 6 player on a team short on top 6 players. You're naive if you think we can trade him for someone better without giving up other significant assets. Bobby Ryan? Even if we could fit him under the cap, it would take a lot more than Dubi to get him.
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
See and I'm tired of the opposite approach - it seems to me that you and a large percentage of the fanbase have illogical blinders on when it comes to guys drafted by the Rangers. They came up through the system. They play the game the "right" way. blah, blah, blah. So ****ing what? If they're 2nd, 3rd liners, etc. and someone else is willing to give you back 1st liners for them, you do it. Period. Then go have a beer and remember the fond memories.

The point is when it comes to differing evaluations. As regards AA, Cally and others - I value them the way I think the team values them, I see upside the way I think the team and others around the league see upside. Dubi is a particular case where I personally don't think he's going to be as good as many others appear to think he'll be. Therefore, if we can capitalize on this disparity to trade him (with or without other assets) for a player I consider to be better, I think we'd be well advised to do it.

This opinion of mine is specific to Dubi. I think he won't be as good as others seem to think. The only other player where this may be true is Gilroy - by the time last season was half over, I was seeing him as no more than Mike Mottau and was hoping that we could trade him for more value than that. That ship may have sailed now - I hope not. As regards Cally, Anisimov, Kreider, Grachev, Staal, MDZ, and all the others, I am very high on them and would be hoping to hold on to them under most circumstances. (Grachev, as you can tell by my avatar, is likely someone where I take the opposite view from the majority - I get the sense that I think his potential may be higher than many others do.)

But having said that, you know what? They're available for the right offer too. You want to offer me the James Neal + a 4th in exchange for Cally + WSH's 2nd that another poster suggested a while back? Done - no backsies. (I just don't think that Dallas would ever make such an offer.)

Every case is individual - we shouldn't be making blanket statements simply based on who drafted the player or how long he's been in the organization. It seems to me that you and I disagree on Dubi's potential. That's fine - as I've said repeatedly, if we wind up hanging on to him, I hope I turn out to be wrong. But that doesn't mean that the principle behind my position is wrong.

I agree with both of you but I think I know where GAG is coming from..I don't want to speak for him but I think that the problem is there is no logic in trading Dubinsky.

Obviously in any deal that significantly upgrades the team any player is expendable.

The problem is people like to bring up Dubinsky in trade talks for no other reason than the fact that he has value and we have a lot of forwards. There's never any substance to anything. People just bring it up and throw it out there and then you've got 10 people a thread saying something about how well if we trade Dubi, or when Dubi gets trades, or maybe we'll trade Dubi, it gets super frustrating.

No one ever provides an example of a trade for Dubinsky that makes us better and doesn't require us to give up more assets as well. For the type of deal this team needs to make Dubinsky is a great starting point, but he is not getting a deal done alone. We'd have to give up more for whatever hypothetical mythical player everyone assumes we'd get back by trading him.

How does that help us now? With the state of the franchise it makes no sense at this time.

Dubinsky is a part of the core and he's someone who is an asset to our team. There is no logic to moving him at this point. None. He's cheap, effective, home grown, is improving, etc. There's zero logic in moving him. Yet people always want to bring it up for some reason.

If someone wants to propose a deal that is realistic, instead of just saying "well, Dubi might be moved..." and then providing no substance to their comments then fine. But this hypothetical nonsense has got to stop.

There is no reason to trade the kid, and I doubt that there's a deal out there that would really make sense for us.

We were going to trade him for Heatley but it wasn't worth giving up the ADDITIONAL assets needed. Who are we getting back for Dubinsky alone that improves the team so significantly and it actually makes sense (age, cap hit, production, etc)?

That's where the frustration comes from regarding Dubinsky. Again I don't want to speak for GAG but that's where it comes from for me.

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Old
08-03-2010, 11:12 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I know I agree... That's why I'm a bit nervous to see what their negotiation demands are if he has two 20 goal seasons under his belt after asking for $4 mil a year when he didn't....
To be fair, he was looking for 4 per year, but on a 4 year deal. And in the end he did settle for 1.85 per for 2 years. It's unfortunate that we didn't have the cap space after signing Kotalik to be able to re-sign Dubi for more years (or more to the point, unfortunate that we signed Kotalik at all).

If he puts up 60 points this year, I think he'll get that 4/16 that he was looking for, or close to it. At the same age as Dubi will be this year, Ryan Kesler put up 59 points (26g 33a). He then put up 75 points last year (25g 50a). In March, he signed a 6 yr/30 mil extension (5 mil per year).

Prior to putting up 59 points in 2008-09, Kesler's career high was 37 points. Dubinsky has a better ppg average than Kesler did at the same age.

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Old
08-03-2010, 11:32 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
That's where the frustration comes from regarding Dubinsky. Again I don't want to speak for GAG but that's where it comes from for me.
No, I think you characterized it pretty well. It's just like some people think Dubi has more value to this team as a trade chip than as a player. If he puts up 60 points next year, they'll still want to trade him. I just don't get it.

Anyway, enough about Dubinsky. What was this thread about again? Lol. Oh yeah, come on Staal, sign the contract so we can stop worrying about it.

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Old
08-03-2010, 12:54 PM
  #129
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Well, it looks like the original tweet was not from a good source. Anyone think we should somehow compile a list of "reputable" (and non-reputable for that matter) twitter accounts and sticky it?

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Old
08-03-2010, 12:55 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
.

The point is when it comes to differing evaluations. As regards AA, Cally and others - I value them the way I think the team values them, I see upside the way I think the team and others around the league see upside. Dubi is a particular case where I personally don't think he's going to be as good as many others appear to think he'll be. Therefore, if we can capitalize on this disparity to trade him (with or without other assets) for a player I consider to be better, I think we'd be well advised to do it.

This opinion of mine is specific to Dubi. I think he won't be as good as others seem to think. The only other player where this may be true is Gilroy - by the time last season was half over, I was seeing him as no more than Mike Mottau and was hoping that we could trade him for more value than that. That ship may have sailed now - I hope not. As regards Cally, Anisimov, Kreider, Grachev, Staal, MDZ, and all the others, I am very high on them and would be hoping to hold on to them under most circumstances. (Grachev, as you can tell by my avatar, is likely someone where I take the opposite view from the majority - I get the sense that I think his potential may be higher than many others do.)
Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you are trying to say, but, on the one hand, you say you're evaluating Callahan and AA as the team does, but, you aren't doing the same for Dubi. Which is contrary to how to the team views all three players, at least from public statements from Clark, who has referred to Dubinsky as a 1st line player, while never referring to either player as even 2nd liners.

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Old
08-03-2010, 01:06 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
To be fair, he was looking for 4 per year, but on a 4 year deal. And in the end he did settle for 1.85 per for 2 years. It's unfortunate that we didn't have the cap space after signing Kotalik to be able to re-sign Dubi for more years (or more to the point, unfortunate that we signed Kotalik at all).
He had no business asking for that kind of money or term based on his previous production and contract status at the time.... $16 mil guaranteed over 4 years for a player who hadn't scored more than 15 goals or 41 points? Crazy talk...

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:01 PM
  #132
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From Mike Russo at MN Star Tribune

Quote:
Willie Mitchell Update. I hear he's gotten a clean bill of health and has begun taking physicals for a few teams. I think he'll sign soon. The former Wild defenseman, I'm told, actually could sign a contract with performance bonuses because he spent 100 days on injured reserve last year -- including the playoffs. The CBA doesn't spell out whether the 100 days is only during the regular season, so it appears after inquiries from Mitchell and the interested teams, the league will allow this type of contract. I bet it'll be for a base of $1 or $1.5 million on a one-year deal plus bonuses.

He's not coming to Minnesota. I think Washington and San Jose are definite possibilities. I also hear he met with Vancouver recently, although I don't know how the Canucks can re-sign Mitchell since they're over the cap.
Not sure how he fits with Rangers especially after White trade.

I can also confirm that Phoenix Coyotes have made him an offer.

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:16 PM
  #133
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Bob I think there was a sportsnet.ca article recently saying it was narrowed down to 6 teams or so and the Rangers weren't on the list... Would love to have him with Redden waived but doesn't look like it's going to materialize...

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Old
08-05-2010, 05:03 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Bob I think there was a sportsnet.ca article recently saying it was narrowed down to 6 teams or so and the Rangers weren't on the list... Would love to have him with Redden waived but doesn't look like it's going to materialize...
I saw that list but Phoenix wasn't on it and I know they are in there pitching hard.

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Old
08-05-2010, 07:06 PM
  #135
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If you guys sign Mitchell, I'll be very jealous. I'll give you Matt Walker tho

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