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Update on Price contract talks

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Old
08-04-2010, 06:05 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SpezNc View Post
Alex Auld is not as bad as what some thinks... And Price will be signed. We are 6 weeks away from training camps. Plenty of time to negociate.

We lost Halak but we gain a valuable asset in Eller.
Look at it this way, Price put up a respectable .912 save percentage last season and still lost twice as many games as he won.

This team is nowhere near strong enough to have a career .905 goalie playing 20+ games.

We went from having a team with at least one elite aspect, to a bagful of average.

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08-04-2010, 06:19 PM
  #52
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Look at it this way, Price put up a respectable .912 save percentage last season and still lost twice as many games as he won.

This team is nowhere near strong enough to have a career .905 goalie playing 20+ games.

We went from having a team with at least one elite aspect, to a bagful of average.
Auld has won more game that he has lost. he has plays for plenty of teams so it's a reliable source.

Auld should not be the players that will dictate if we make or not the playoffs.

If Price has the same GAA next year, I GARANTIE YOU that his winning record would be MUCH HIGHER.

I can understand the Halak's fan to be disapointed. It's NEVER EASY TO SEE YOU FAVORITE PLAYER getting trade away.

Because I'm a Price fan I do see the things from another perspective.

A lot of fans are saying that it's not possible for Price to do what Halak has done last year. But what these peoples forget is that it's ALSO ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE (Even for Halak himself) to repeat his exploits.

Two year in a row? Nahhhhhh..... we can never say Never but it's would be odd because in my book he is not a top 5 goalie in the NHL.

So the habs took the gamble that Price will be better in 2010-2011 and that Halak will not be as good (i'm not saying that he will be bad but probably not as dominant)

With Eller, the habs is getting a valuable asset up front. i'm not expecting Eller to challenge for the calder. But he should be a good option if J.Martin wants to shuffle his lines.

Glen Metropolit is not bad but he is not the same player as Eller.

It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to see the habs going as far as last in the playoff. But I do think that we will have overall a better season.

I'm expecting big things in 2011-2012.

I do have A LOT of faith in Carey Price but we need to patient.

Patience is key with the young talented goalies.

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08-04-2010, 06:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
This is the same organization that put its "faith" into an undersized second line center for close to two decades. We went from having arguably the best goaltending situation in the league three months ago to only having a fringe NHL'er under contract with our only #1 hope being "not necessarily close" to signing a contract.

As for how we could of accommodated both Halak and Price? This has been done. Capgeek has us at around 4.1 million in cap space. Take away Auld's 1 million, and that puts us at 5.1 million. Bury Laraque in the minors rather than buying him out, and that puts us at 5.6 million. Then take away Eller's 1.3 million at that puts us with 6.9 million to sign both goalies and a bottom-6 center.
What a ridiculous comment.

And as for keeping both goalies the cap hit is not the point. Both goalies are good enough to challenge for a starters job and by having them both here it would cause friction in the dressing room, in the longrun it would cause too many distractions for a team that already has too many distractions.

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08-04-2010, 06:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SpezNc View Post
Auld has won more game that he has lost. he has plays for plenty of teams so it's a reliable source.

Auld should not be the players that will dictate if we make or not the playoffs.

If Price has the same GAA next year, I GARANTIE YOU that his winning record would be MUCH HIGHER.

I can understand the Halak's fan to be disapointed. It's NEVER EASY TO SEE YOU FAVORITE PLAYER getting trade away.

Because I'm a Price fan I do see the things from another perspective.

A lot of fans are saying that it's not possible for Price to do what Halak has done last year. But what these peoples forget is that it's ALSO ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE (Even for Halak himself) to repeat his exploits.

Two year in a row? Nahhhhhh..... we can never say Never but it's would be odd because in my book he is not a top 5 goalie in the NHL.

So the habs took the gamble that Price will be better in 2010-2011 and that Halak will not be as good (i'm not saying that he will be bad but probably not as dominant)

With Eller, the habs is getting a valuable asset up front. i'm not expecting Eller to challenge for the calder. But he should be a good option if J.Martin wants to shuffle his lines.

Glen Metropolit is not bad but he is not the same player as Eller.

It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to see the habs going as far as last in the playoff. But I do think that we will have overall a better season.

I'm expecting big things in 2011-2012.

I do have A LOT of faith in Carey Price but we need to patient.

Patience is key with the young talented goalies.
First of all, Auld has 83 wins, 82 losses, 2 ties, and 26 OTL. In other words, he has lost more games than he has won. Futhermore, I was talking about save percentage.

As for the rest... what the? ... I don't even know.

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08-04-2010, 06:41 PM
  #55
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What a ridiculous comment.

And as for keeping both goalies the cap hit is not the point. Both goalies are good enough to challenge for a starters job and by having them both here it would cause friction in the dressing room, in the longrun it would cause too many distractions for a team that already has too many distractions.
As ridiculous as you might think it is, I don't have much faith in the organization's ability to evaluate high-end talent. The proof is in the proverbial pudding, if you will.

Both goalies might be good enough to challenge for a starters job, but there's such a thing as a good starter and an average starter. In other words, one player is still better than the other regardless of whether they both can challenge for the #1 spot. As for locker room friction, that's pure speculation. If we're playing that game I can turn around and say that Price is a party animal and isn't committed to being the best player he can be and that it distracts teammates. So lets not play that game and go on what we were all witness to; a cohesive unit from the top down during the playoff run.

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08-04-2010, 06:44 PM
  #56
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Hes gonna gamble like Plekanec. No way his numbers next year will be as bad as this year so hes looking to pimp his record so he can sign a bigger contract when his numbers are better.
I don't see why the ink's not already dry if that's the case.

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08-04-2010, 07:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
Look at it this way, Price put up a respectable .912 save percentage last season and still lost twice as many games as he won.

This team is nowhere near strong enough to have a career .905 goalie playing 20+ games.

We went from having a team with at least one elite aspect, to a bagful of average.
Are you saying Halak was elite? Wow...

Jaro is about to find out what it's like to have pressure put on him this year, really, that's what Price has had on him since day one as a Hab......Let the season begin already, this has all become foolishness......

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08-04-2010, 07:25 PM
  #58
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Are you saying Halak was elite? Wow...

Jaro is about to find out what it's like to have pressure put on him this year, really, that's what Price has had on him since day one as a Hab......Let the season begin already, this has all become foolishness......
If you had the ability to follow a conversation you would be aware that I was referring to our goaltending situation as a whole, and not one individual player.

Thanks for playing, though.

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08-05-2010, 07:35 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
If you had the ability to follow a conversation you would be aware that I was referring to our goaltending situation as a whole, and not one individual player.

Thanks for playing, though.
If you were referring to our goaltending as elite, then you are way off...Halak was very good at times, and Price was average...so where do you get elite...thanks for coming out, though...

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08-05-2010, 08:36 AM
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Price just want out of Montreal.

Who would like to be booed by 21,000 people at the Bell after a bad goal ?

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08-05-2010, 08:47 AM
  #61
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If you were referring to our goaltending as elite, then you are way off...Halak was very good at times, and Price was average...so where do you get elite...thanks for coming out, though...
When you give up the 4th most amount of shots in the NHL yet are tied for the 11th least amount of goals against you've got something special.

Or, if you can't wrap your mind around that, our starter was 4th in the league in Sv% while our backup was tied with cup winning Niemi and .001% off from Robby Lou.

Top-4 out of 30 teams is elite, hate to break it to you pal.

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08-05-2010, 08:51 AM
  #62
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Price just want out of Montreal.

Who would like to be booed by 21,000 people at the Bell after a bad goal ?
You could very well be right, but wouldn't the Habs organization know this, and therefore dealt Price not Halak? Let's face it, being a goaltender in Montreal has alot more pressure than any other city, because of Plante,Worsley,Dryden and Roy.....for some odd reason, I think this will be a big year for Price...let's hope the fans get behind him, and the team, the real fans...

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08-05-2010, 09:07 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
When you give up the 4th most amount of shots in the NHL yet are tied for the 11th least amount of goals against you've got something special.
Or, if you can't wrap your mind around that, our starter was 4th in the league in Sv% while our backup was tied with cup winning Niemi and .001% off from Robby Lou.

Top-4 out of 30 teams is elite, hate to break it to you pal.
But what amount of those shots are actual quality scoring chances? I think that's more important...

It's like the series vs. the Caps, they had a ton of shots...but they were all shots from the outside.

The Habs systems allows for alot of shots against, but minimal shots from the slot (or dangerous areas)...

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08-05-2010, 09:09 AM
  #64
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This is exactly as should be expected. The Habs think Price is going to be their Number one and believe in him so they are trying to sign him to a 3-4 year deal while his value is still low from a less than stellar, below expectations year.

Price's camp know that after last season he's not going to get top dollar, and with Niemi only getting 2.75, are chasing after a shorter 1-2 year deal so he can hopefully rebound, have 1-2 great seasons and then cash in.

I predict a 2 year deal on a very good cap hit. Price will get his short term deal, but will have to accept less money than he's asking for right now. If he wants 2 years he won't get a raise is my prediction if he does it'll be small and inconsequential . If he accepts 4 years than it'll get him someplace between Niemi and Halak numbers.

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08-05-2010, 09:14 AM
  #65
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But what amount of those shots are actual quality scoring chances? I think that's more important...

It's like the series vs. the Caps, they had a ton of shots...but they were all shots from the outside.

The Habs systems allows for alot of shots against, but minimal shots from the slot (or dangerous areas)...
That's a complete fallacy. I'll refrain from posting the shot charts for now since I'm busy and I'll give you a chance to save face, but look them up if you're truly interested (ESPN GameCast).

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08-05-2010, 09:21 AM
  #66
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This is exactly as should be expected. The Habs think Price is going to be their Number one and believe in him so they are trying to sign him to a 3-4 year deal while his value is still low from a less than stellar, below expectations year.

Price's camp know that after last season he's not going to get top dollar, and with Niemi only getting 2.75, are chasing after a shorter 1-2 year deal so he can hopefully rebound, have 1-2 great seasons and then cash in.

I predict a 2 year deal on a very good cap hit. Price will get his short term deal, but will have to accept less money than he's asking for right now. If he wants 2 years he won't get a raise is my prediction if he does it'll be small and inconsequential . If he accepts 4 years than it'll get him someplace between Niemi and Halak numbers.
totally agree. With the previous reports claiming that Price was looking for a long-term deal and Gauthier shorter, my interpretation of the situation was entirely different, but now that we have factual information rather than speculation, my conception of the process has changed entirely.

It looks like the Halak trade didn't change anything in terms of negotiation power in relation to dollar amount which everyone claimed that it had. What we see now is a really common situation with players that have had the type of seasons Price has had(see Plekanec last year).

From an agent/player standpoint, the shorter term deal is the ideal one because let's face it, playing hockey is a job and you need to maximize earnings. If Price signs a long term deal at a fair amount now, he could be potentially losing millions of dollars than if he just signs a shorter term deal at lesser money and performs extremely well(especially when you consider how much cap room the Canadiens have next year).

On the other hand, it is important for Gauthier to get Price to sign at a lower cap hit for longer and have his performance exceed his salary...this is how you succeed in the cap world. So it's extremely easy to understand why the negotiation is taking so long as there is a disagreement with both parties, unlike the Plekanec situation where both parties were looking for a short deal and come to an agreement fairly early. Someone will eventually budge.

I don't think the situation would have changed much whether or not Halak was here or not, it seems as though that Price and his agent are well aware that if he plays stellar this year he will get a big raise, I think his camp would have sought a short term deal regardless of when we traded Halak, heck maybe he wouldn't have signed at all because of lack of stability in terms of playing time.


I think the Gauthier gave Price more negotiating power because of the halak trade is completely overplayed. Also, from this report by Price's agent himself, it seems as though every reporter's speculation has been wrong from the beginning where they claimed he would be seeking big bucks for long term(Halak money).


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08-05-2010, 09:26 AM
  #67
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That's a complete fallacy. I'll refrain from posting the shot charts for now since I'm busy and I'll give you a chance to save face, but look them up if you're truly interested (ESPN GameCast).
The shot chart still doesn't indicate the quality of those shots. You can get a shot from the slot and totally fan on it and get a crap shot off. Doesn't tell if a shot was rushed because players were collapsing on the shooter. People refer to much to statistics, there is so many intangibles that stats or charts like that don't show you.

The best way to determine this would be to re-watch each game and determine what was a quality chance, but even then that's very subjective.

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08-05-2010, 09:30 AM
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The shot chart still doesn't indicate the quality of those shots. You can get a shot from the slot and totally fan on it and get a crap shot off. Doesn't tell if a shot was rushed because players were collapsing on the shooter. People refer to much to statistics, there is so many intangibles that stats or charts like that don't show you.

The best way to determine this would be to re-watch each game and determine what was a quality chance, but even then that's very subjective.
So we're now supposed to assume that teams fan on their scoring position shots more often against us than against other teams?

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08-05-2010, 09:32 AM
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Significantly different reports out there as another poster said, some have the Habs looking for the shorter deal while others have Price wanting a 3 year deal. Its the last one I really don't want to see because Price can be a UFA in 3 years, then we have no leverage . We need to sign him to 2 or less ( not more than 3 because we can't pay him like a top goalie since he hasn't proven that's what he is, yet ) so we could then try to leverage that last year or two of RFA status into a longer term deal that bites into a few UFA years, like the Blues did with Halak.

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08-05-2010, 09:32 AM
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So we're now supposed to assume that teams fan on their scoring position shots more often against us than against other teams?
That's not what I said, read again, you said you'll post the shot chart, but the shot chart says nothing about the quality of those shots which is the most important thing. Like I said you can take a shot from the slot and totally let off a crap weak shot, you got to shoot in a high scoring area, but it wasn't a quality scoring chance.

Posting the shot chart doesn't answer any questions, it just creates more.

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08-05-2010, 09:35 AM
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The shot chart still doesn't indicate the quality of those shots. You can get a shot from the slot and totally fan on it and get a crap shot off. Doesn't tell if a shot was rushed because players were collapsing on the shooter. People refer to much to statistics, there is so many intangibles that stats or charts like that don't show you.

The best way to determine this would be to re-watch each game and determine what was a quality chance, but even then that's very subjective.
Your argument is very poor. If you let the opponent take a shot in the slot it's bad defense in someway, no matter if he fans on the shot or not. You said shot were from the outside first, now you're saying the scoring chances weren't great.

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08-05-2010, 09:36 AM
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Your argument is very poor. If you let the opponent take a shot in the slot it's bad defense in someway, no matter if he fans on the shot or not. You said shot were from the outside first, now you're saying the scoring chances weren't great.
I never said shots were from the outside...read again.

Also, in shooting in high percentage areas I'll give you example.

Remember when everyone used to complain about Higgins getting so many scoring chances, but always letting off a crap shot or shooting in the goalies chest, or getting no power behind the shot. In this case we are blaming the shooting rather then giving credit to the goalie for making the save from someone shooting in a high scoring area.

Very blurry line as to whether it was a great save or a crappy shot...the interpretation generally changes from what team you root for.

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08-05-2010, 09:37 AM
  #73
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But what amount of those shots are actual quality scoring chances? I think that's more important...

It's like the series vs. the Caps, they had a ton of shots...but they were all shots from the outside.

The Habs systems allows for alot of shots against, but minimal shots from the slot (or dangerous areas)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
That's not what I said, read again, you said you'll post the shot chart, but the shot chart says nothing about the quality of those shots which is the most important thing. Like I said you can take a shot from the slot and totally let off a crap weak shot, you got to shoot in a high scoring area, but it wasn't a quality scoring chance.

Posting the shot chart doesn't answer any questions, it just creates more.
Take your argument up with him, not me.

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08-05-2010, 09:38 AM
  #74
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That's a complete fallacy. I'll refrain from posting the shot charts for now since I'm busy and I'll give you a chance to save face, but look them up if you're truly interested (ESPN GameCast).
It's not fallacy...i'm not saying the Caps didn't have any good scoring chances. They did....but the way the Caps & Pens played offensively vs. the Habs as opposed to the Flyers, was completely different.

You can post shot charts all you want, it doesn't change my point of view...

The Habs play a type of system that allows alot of shots against, but limits quality scoring chances...sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

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08-05-2010, 09:39 AM
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You wouldn't make a good GM.

In Gauthier's position, you have to take advantage of the fact that Price is undervalued right now to try and get a bit longer term deal(3-4 years) at less than he should be woth given continued development(4-6 mil possibly in years 3 and 4). If you sign him for 1 year and he has a break out year you have to pay him a lot more than 2.5-2.75 in years 2-3-4 than you might be able to this summer.

In the cap world signing longer contracts with young players for less than they might end up being worth can help you a lot.

As Price's agent, I would rather go 1 or 2 years because I can see my client being worth twice the current value if he makes good progress in the next 24 months.


So you'd rather sign him long term for more money than he is worth at this point and risk having a #1 goalie that can't win??

Sorry, but you'd make a worse GM than me!!!

I believe in paying players what they are worth and overpaying players that are worth overpaying....Price isn't worth overpaying at this stage in his career. He has a lot to prove before he deserves to get a bunch of money thrown at him.

You're assuming that Price is going to be an elite goalie and signing him now to a 4 or 5 year deal at a very low cap hit makes sense.....but you're forgetting that he might continue to struggle as the Habs #1 goalie and the organization might decide to go in another direction and get a real #1 goalie and move Price.

You have to make a smart deal to cover all situations.....you don't just throw money away to an unproven goalie for 4 or 5 years.

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