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Can Anyone Explain How Redden Was a Plus/Minus Leader in 2009/10?

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08-07-2010, 12:51 PM
  #1
Mr Atoz*
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Can Anyone Explain How Redden Was a Plus/Minus Leader in 2009/10?

At +8, there were only 3 Rangers that had a better plus/minus rating than Wade Redden this past season. And one of them (Christensen) only played 49 games. Our eyes don't deceive us. He's virtually worthless as a defenseman. How is it possible that he's a plus player at all? I know that some people discount the stat but unsurprisingly Gaborik has the best plus/minus and he's obviously the best play aside from Lunqvist.

PS - Del Zotto is dead last.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=nyr

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08-07-2010, 12:54 PM
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mattyd99
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Because maybe he's not as bad as everyone here seems to think. He's no where near worth 6.5 million but he's still an NHL caliber player.

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08-07-2010, 12:59 PM
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because +/- is a very overrated and often wrong stat. Marek Malik was a +/- leader in the entire NHL, he wasnt a very good defenseman.

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08-07-2010, 12:59 PM
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I recall he was a minus 3 around the Holidays. I think since he wasn't logging 20-25 mins a game & playing on the 3rd pair that helped inflate that number.

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08-07-2010, 01:02 PM
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I Counted 4 players that had a higher +\- ratio and another player with the same +\- (8)

So he was 5th on the team

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08-07-2010, 01:07 PM
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Because guys like Redden, Malik, and Drury are winners and guys like Kovalchuk are losers

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08-07-2010, 01:08 PM
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Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Because guys like Redden, Malik, and Drury are winners and guys like Kovalchuk are losers
Best


Post


EVER


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08-07-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
At +8, there were only 3 Rangers that had a better plus/minus rating than Wade Redden this past season. And one of them (Christensen) only played 49 games. Our eyes don't deceive us. He's virtually worthless as a defenseman. How is it possible that he's a plus player at all? I know that some people discount the stat but unsurprisingly Gaborik has the best plus/minus and he's obviously the best play aside from Lunqvist.

PS - Del Zotto is dead last.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=nyr
MDZ being dead last though thats definitely a reflection of his play in his own zone, which was borderline catastrophic at times. however he brings so much else to the table that you can look past it.

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08-07-2010, 01:10 PM
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John Torturella
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Plus/minus is next to useless.

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08-07-2010, 01:19 PM
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Jaromir Jagr
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What I've found is: almost every hockey fan is guilty of the +/- fiasco from time to time. It seems as though it can be used as both a positive and negative stat.

In other words, if defending a player that one likes, he will refer to his +/- as a positive if it is good or decent, but if it's bad or horrendous, they will say that that stat is useless in defense of their player.

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08-07-2010, 01:19 PM
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Redden didnt play often against other teams top players. Hes also a decent to good 3rd pairing dman but obv with a crippling contract to the organization.

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08-07-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
Because maybe he's not as bad as everyone here seems to think. He's no where near worth 6.5 million but he's still an NHL caliber player.
Uh, yes. He is.

He was the leader because he got limited ice time against the team's bottom 6 for the most part.

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08-07-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
At +8, there were only 3 Rangers that had a better plus/minus rating than Wade Redden this past season. And one of them (Christensen) only played 49 games. Our eyes don't deceive us. He's virtually worthless as a defenseman. How is it possible that he's a plus player at all? I know that some people discount the stat but unsurprisingly Gaborik has the best plus/minus and he's obviously the best play aside from Lunqvist.

PS - Del Zotto is dead last.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=nyr
Because too many self-professed fans don't understand the game. Was Redden real good? No. Was he real bad? No. He offered little, but almost never hurt the team. If he was a 1 million-dollar dman, he would be a non-entity around here. And it's not his fault that the moron gave him that much.

DelZotto has a chance to be outstanding, but when he wasn't on the Power Play he was far worse than Redden last year. Presumably that will change as he matures. Defensemen usually stink in the beginning.

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08-07-2010, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
because +/- is a very overrated and often wrong stat. Marek Malik was a +/- leader in the entire NHL, he wasnt a very good defenseman.
He was a very decent dman, even if he didn't crush forwards.

Bobby Orr was once over plus-100, but since that stat means nothing, I'll assume he was overrated.

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08-07-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
What I've found is: almost every hockey fan is guilty of the +/- fiasco from time to time. It seems as though it can be used as both a positive and negative stat.

In other words, if defending a player that one likes, he will refer to his +/- as a positive if it is good or decent, but if it's bad or horrendous, they will say that that stat is useless in defense of their player.
+/- is useless across teams but has some value within a team.

Duguay was a great example of an overrated player. He was flashy and had some offense, so fans loved him, but the guy either couldn 't or wouldn't play D, so he was a near constant negative.

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08-07-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, yes. He is.

He was the leader because he got limited ice time against the team's bottom 6 for the most part.
Uh, no. He's not.

He is a very capable 5-6 defenseman who has a bloated contract. If he was making 2-3 million no one would be talking about him. And look, I hate Redden. I want him off this team just as much as everyone else but people need to realize he's still capable of playing in this league.

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08-07-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
Uh, no. He's not.

He is a very capable 5-6 defenseman who has a bloated contract. If he was making 2-3 million no one would be talking about him. And look, I hate Redden. I want him off this team just as much as everyone else but people need to realize he's still capable of playing in this league.
Being a capable 5-6 defenseman and being capable of playing in the NHL are two entirely different things.

Redden is a borderline NHL player at this point. He is a 6th/7th defender at best.

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08-07-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tears on Broadway View Post
I recall he was a minus 3 around the Holidays. I think since he wasn't logging 20-25 mins a game & playing on the 3rd pair that helped inflate that number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
Redden didnt play often against other teams top players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, yes. He is.

He was the leader because he got limited ice time against the team's bottom 6 for the most part.
These are the main, but not only, reasons he had a good rating.

He was protected as well as Torts could do under the circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
Uh, no. He's not.

He is a very capable 5-6 defenseman who has a bloated contract. If he was making 2-3 million no one would be talking about him. And look, I hate Redden. I want him off this team just as much as everyone else but people need to realize he's still capable of playing in this league.
I agree he's still of the calibre of a bottom-pairing D-man in the NHL right now.

But also some here have to acknowledge that fringe players like Redden, regardless of how much they are getting paid, are only good in certain situations and/or with certain teams.

On this Rangers team, under Torts, where the Defense is encouraged to be more active offensively, Redden represents close to a train-wreck.

On a more stationary, traditional Defense he would not stick out so badly.

Overall, in a big spot offensively or defensively, he's useless.

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08-07-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
Uh, no. He's not.

He is a very capable 5-6 defenseman who has a bloated contract. If he was making 2-3 million no one would be talking about him. And look, I hate Redden. I want him off this team just as much as everyone else but people need to realize he's still capable of playing in this league.
He's a borderline 5/6 d-man. He can be replaced by any rookie or journeyman and no one would even notice. I was actually one of Redden's biggest supporters for a while because he had flashes every now and then of being good again. This past season? Not a single one.

On his BEST days, he's a #5 d-man. That's when he's making the right plays and not completely ****ing up. His average days, he's a #6. And his bad days? He would barely be AHL level.

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08-07-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Being a capable 5-6 defenseman and being capable of playing in the NHL are two entirely different things.

Redden is a borderline NHL player at this point. He is a 6th/7th defender at best.
chosen said it best at post #13. He's well above borderline NHL. He hasn't lived up to his contract and his game has fallen off so everyone assumes he can't play in the NHL longer. I honestly can't believe i'm defending Redden because I hate him but I hate how everyone views him through his contract. He isn't even the worst at defense on this team yet he shouldn't be in the NHL?

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08-07-2010, 01:54 PM
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Don't put too much stock into +\- Jeff Schultz was a +50 but is a sub par D man.

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08-07-2010, 02:03 PM
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Alot of money being spent for soft D and very little offensive production. Good to see that Henrik has their backs, but all in all they are still capable of playing decent D, just not shut down D for the money being spent. I just don't buy the fact that they are facing lesser opponents, that has a way of equalling out over the course of a season.

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08-07-2010, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
chosen said it best at post #13. He's well above borderline NHL. He hasn't lived up to his contract and his game has fallen off so everyone assumes he can't play in the NHL longer. I honestly can't believe i'm defending Redden because I hate him but I hate how everyone views him through his contract. He isn't even the worst at defense on this team yet he shouldn't be in the NHL?
Very much agree.... He is still an NHL player.. but the salary
cap hit is the the BIG ISSUE with Redden.. He has a ton
of experience and does the simple plays which do not get
noticed. He never was a flashy player even in his prime.

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08-07-2010, 02:06 PM
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Redden's ice time was cut as the season went along and he barely played against teams top or even second lines. When you play against teams checking units or energy lines the goals aren't exactly being given out, just another example of how the plus/minus stat is completely overrated and useless IMO.

In 2001-02 Malakhov was our only defensemen with a positive plus minus, Rich Pilon and Kloucek were tied for 2nd with -2 as second and Leetch was a -18, it has a lot to do with playing time and who you are playing against clearly.

Redden's +/- is garbage

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08-07-2010, 02:29 PM
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Among NHL D that played at least 50 games, Staal faced the highest level of competition. Girardi ranked 17th, and Rozy ended up 75th. Redden was 110.

Torts was forced to put him in situations he'd have a chance to succeed, which is why he lead the Rangers' regular D in relative quality of teammates, and was 4th in relative quality of competition, with just MDZ and Gilroy, two rookies, behind him.

Even with Torts stacking the deck in his favor, Redden's play was league average at best, which is awful for a 33 vet D.

Forget contract, he's awful.

www.behindthenet.com, cool website, check it out.

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