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Can Anyone Explain How Redden Was a Plus/Minus Leader in 2009/10?

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Old
08-07-2010, 02:32 PM
  #26
BwayBshirt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Redden's ice time was cut as the season went along and he barely played against teams top or even second lines. When you play against teams checking units or energy lines the goals aren't exactly being given out, just another example of how the plus/minus stat is completely overrated and useless IMO.

In 2001-02 Malakhov was our only defensemen with a positive plus minus, Rich Pilon and Kloucek were tied for 2nd with -2 as second and Leetch was a -18, it has a lot to do with playing time and who you are playing against clearly.

Redden's +/- is garbage
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Among NHL D that played at least 50 games, Staal faced the highest level of competition. Girardi ranked 17th, and Rozy ended up 75th. Redden was 110.

Torts was forced to put him in situations he'd have a chance to succeed, which is why he lead the Rangers' regular D in relative quality of teammates, and was 4th in relative quality of competition, with just MDZ and Gilroy, two rookies, behind him.

Even with Torts stacking the deck in his favor, Redden's play was league average at best, which is awful for a 33 vet D.

Forget contract, he's awful.

www.behindthenet.com, cool website, check it out.
Exactly on both accounts.

On a team that doesn't really push its Defense to get involved offensively (i.e. NJ for one example), I could see Redden playing on that 3rd pair. Hell, they have Mike Mottau in their group.

But, specifically for the Rangers right now, he's a waste. Nothing more, nothing less.

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08-07-2010, 02:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Best


Post


EVER

Really? I thought Drury has won in his career. Silly me.....

BTW...exactly WHAT has Kovalchuk done? Talk about OVERRATED on these boards.

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08-07-2010, 02:52 PM
  #28
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everyone keeps bringing up MDZ's minus 20 like its a virus or something. I'm not sure if everyone remembers, but there was a stretch when Torts put MDZ and Girardi together. That pairing together was like oil and vinegar. Torts should have pulled the plug much sooner on them two. Both players plus/minus took a huge, huge beating during that stretch. Girardi was able to recover statistically due to being put back with Staal. MDZ however, was back with non-other than Blozsival.

Also, being a 19 year-old offensive defensemen paired up with the exact opposite of a stay at home d-man in Rosy. That doesn't help matters either. At this stage in the game, it would bode well for MDZ if he were paired up with a true stay at home d-man. sort of like what happened for Mat Carle, when Pronger and he were paired up together. Things really started happening for Carle offensively. Yeah, I know its Pronger. But its the idea of having a partner who can cover your butt in the same vein as Leetch and Beaukeboom. in 3 years down the road, i could absolutely see an awesome tandem in MDZ and McIlrath.

As for Redden, he's just a waste of space at this time. Playing bottom pair minutes against other bottom 6 lines. All the while, ruining Matt Gilroy's development.

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08-07-2010, 03:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
Because maybe he's not as bad as everyone here seems to think. He's no where near worth 6.5 million but he's still an NHL caliber player.
What he said, Redden has been to the top of the mountain at the NHL level when it comes to achievements. Yes has he regressed and yes his contract is too high but he is no doubt a top six on any team.

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08-07-2010, 03:12 PM
  #30
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I bet he just jumped over the boards when they scored a lot of those goals!

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08-07-2010, 04:02 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
because +/- is a very overrated and often wrong stat. Marek Malik was a +/- leader in the entire NHL, he wasnt a very good defenseman.
Malik was also out there a lot when Jagr was. Not the case for Redden.

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08-07-2010, 04:05 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
everyone keeps bringing up MDZ's minus 20 like its a virus or something. I'm not sure if everyone remembers, but there was a stretch when Torts put MDZ and Girardi together. That pairing together was like oil and vinegar. Torts should have pulled the plug much sooner on them two. Both players plus/minus took a huge, huge beating during that stretch. Girardi was able to recover statistically due to being put back with Staal. MDZ however, was back with non-other than Blozsival.

Also, being a 19 year-old offensive defensemen paired up with the exact opposite of a stay at home d-man in Rosy. That doesn't help matters either. At this stage in the game, it would bode well for MDZ if he were paired up with a true stay at home d-man. sort of like what happened for Mat Carle, when Pronger and he were paired up together. Things really started happening for Carle offensively. Yeah, I know its Pronger. But its the idea of having a partner who can cover your butt in the same vein as Leetch and Beaukeboom. in 3 years down the road, i could absolutely see an awesome tandem in MDZ and McIlrath.

As for Redden, he's just a waste of space at this time. Playing bottom pair minutes against other bottom 6 lines. All the while, ruining Matt Gilroy's development.
You're wrong about the Girardi-Del Zotto pairing.

It's Del Zotto-Roszival that really didn't go well. Girardi-Del Zotto were paired together down the stretch whenever we didn't play an Ovechkin type player, and it worked well

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08-07-2010, 04:38 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
At +8, there were only 3 Rangers that had a better plus/minus rating than Wade Redden this past season. And one of them (Christensen) only played 49 games. Our eyes don't deceive us. He's virtually worthless as a defenseman. How is it possible that he's a plus player at all? I know that some people discount the stat but unsurprisingly Gaborik has the best plus/minus and he's obviously the best play aside from Lunqvist.

PS - Del Zotto is dead last.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=nyr
That's why he gets paid the big bucks.

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08-07-2010, 05:22 PM
  #34
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Redden being one of the top +/- guys on the team illustrates how useless the stat is, or illustrates how bad the team was last yr i guess. Maybe some fool of a gm loves +/- numbers & wants to take redden off our hands. That'd b unfrickinreal. If sather can do that & fleece some unexpecting fool, he deserves huge props. Redden exemplifies addition thru subtraction.

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08-07-2010, 06:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Really? I thought Drury has won in his career. Silly me.....

BTW...exactly WHAT has Kovalchuk done? Talk about OVERRATED on these boards.
true....drury is better than kovalchuk

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08-07-2010, 06:47 PM
  #36
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Just goes to show how irrelevant +/- is as a stat.

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08-07-2010, 06:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You're wrong about the Girardi-Del Zotto pairing.

It's Del Zotto-Roszival that really didn't go well. Girardi-Del Zotto were paired together down the stretch whenever we didn't play an Ovechkin type player, and it worked well


you're right. it WAS the Del Zotto-Roszival pairing that was causing everyone agita. I was remembering a stretch mid-season where MDZ's plus/minus took a beating due to different defense pairings. But I do remember Girardi-Del Zotto having some rough patches together as well.

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08-07-2010, 07:37 PM
  #38
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Because too many self-professed fans don't understand the game. Was Redden real good? No. Was he real bad? No. He offered little, but almost never hurt the team. If he was a 1 million-dollar dman, he would be a non-entity around here. And it's not his fault that the moron gave him that much.

DelZotto has a chance to be outstanding, but when he wasn't on the Power Play he was far worse than Redden last year. Presumably that will change as he matures. Defensemen usually stink in the beginning.

Almost never hurt the team? I think it's you that doesn't understand the game. Redden wasn't in the TV picture for most goals against while on the ice because he was so far out of position that you needed an isolation camera to find him.

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08-07-2010, 07:39 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Marek Malik was a +/- leader in the entire NHL, he wasnt a very good defenseman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Malik was also out there a lot when Jagr was. Not the case for Redden.
That would have been very tough considering that Malik led the NHL in plus/minus while he was on Vancouver.

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08-07-2010, 08:43 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Almost never hurt the team? I think it's you that doesn't understand the game. Redden wasn't in the TV picture for most goals against while on the ice because he was so far out of position that you needed an isolation camera to find him.
Really?!

Please explain how he was on the ice often for goals against, yet was so far out of the picture, you couldn't see him, and at the same time was a plus player.

Throw in that he was almost non-existent on the score sheet, so it's not like he was pouring in points to offset his gaffes.

If you can come up with a reasonable, rational explanation, I will bow to your deep understanding of the game. Since that has as good a chance of happening as Sather being named the greatest Rangers GM in history, I won't stay up late worrying that you will prove me wrong.

Explain your logic, please.

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08-07-2010, 09:19 PM
  #41
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Dumb luck. He's fortunate he's was on the ice often when we scored, though he hardly ever had anything to do with the play.

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08-07-2010, 09:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Really? I thought Drury has won in his career. Silly me.....

BTW...exactly WHAT has Kovalchuk done? Talk about OVERRATED on these boards.
Kovalchuk is valued so highly because he has the talent to take a contender all the way. And he hasn't done anything because he was in Atlanta for almost his whole career and has only had one real chance at a cup with New Jersey for a couple months last season.

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Old
08-07-2010, 09:57 PM
  #43
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He was able to play to his strengths, which made him 'good'. But his strength is containing 4th line players.

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08-07-2010, 09:58 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
That would have been very tough considering that Malik led the NHL in plus/minus while he was on Vancouver.
He made mistakes at bad times and it ends up costing us. Exactly like Redden.

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08-07-2010, 10:04 PM
  #45
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Wade Redden is an elite defencemen in the NHL.

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08-07-2010, 10:08 PM
  #46
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I have followed the rangers and hockey like a religion for 30 years now, I can honestly say Wade Redden maybe the worst d-man who actually played regularly for the rangers. he is a an outright liability on the ice and the chance of winning is reduced when he is in the lineup.

His game is deteriorating faster my ability to see my feet.

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08-07-2010, 11:06 PM
  #47
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question. is there any other contract in NHL history that's worse than Redden's 39 million dollar contract? is there?

makes me sick to my stomach knowing he pocketed 8 million for last years performance. its an absolute disgrace. Sather will never live that one down.

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08-07-2010, 11:25 PM
  #48
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i think you are holding the paper upside down.

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08-07-2010, 11:43 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Really?!

Please explain how he was on the ice often for goals against, yet was so far out of the picture, you couldn't see him, and at the same time was a plus player.

Throw in that he was almost non-existent on the score sheet, so it's not like he was pouring in points to offset his gaffes.

If you can come up with a reasonable, rational explanation, I will bow to your deep understanding of the game. Since that has as good a chance of happening as Sather being named the greatest Rangers GM in history, I won't stay up late worrying that you will prove me wrong.

Explain your logic, please.
I would think that you should have figured out that this was the reason that I started the thread in the first place. Redden is so horrid that him being a plus/minus leader makes absolutely no sense.

So we are looking for logical explanations. You obviously don't have one.

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08-07-2010, 11:47 PM
  #50
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I have followed the rangers and hockey like a religion for 30 years now, I can honestly say Wade Redden maybe the worst d-man who actually played regularly for the rangers. he is a an outright liability on the ice and the chance of winning is reduced when he is in the lineup.

His game is deteriorating faster my ability to see my feet.
I don't know if he's that bad, but I'm not a fan.

I've tried to appreciate him in some form for a while now, but there just isn't much to appreciate. I just don't get the feeling that he cares about anything that is going on on the ice when he's out there. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression.

He has no reason to try anymore. He has this team by the balls and we can't do much about it

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