HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

What Would It Take For You to Give Up Lundqvist?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-08-2010, 04:21 PM
  #26
Fataldogg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I Like Hank, he is a very, very good goalkeeper, but he is not worth the cap hit. Is a little overpayed in my eyes especially for a player who has never been past the 2nd round.
He can't control that. Teams make it past the second round. Not single players. If Henrik was on about another dozen teams over the past five years than he likely would have made it past the second round. Heck, if he was on the Flyers this season they probably would have won the Cup.

Fataldogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:24 PM
  #27
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Oh you mean tanked it for a single season? Guess that's your "complete rebuild' there huh?

Philly did exactly what you laughed about... Stayed competitive while they built up their team and now their roster (minus their goal-tending) is superior to ours and they have reached the Conference Finals and the Stanley Cup Finals over the last 3 seasons which is more than we can say for the last 12+ seasons...
It speeds along the process. How you cant see that is beyond me.

And if you think the Rangers are operating the same way, you're even more lost on the subject.

How exactly did the Flyers "stay competitive" during their 22-win 2006-2007 season where they were the worst team in the league?

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:24 PM
  #28
Shadowrunner
Registered User
 
Shadowrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,198
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Shadowrunner Send a message via AIM to Shadowrunner
I agree that Henrik is the best overall goalie in the NHL, and if you gave him a few seasons behind a solid team all the naysayers would grudgingly agree. And I think that an elite goalie is worth more to a team than an elite center. And so, I would not trade Lundqvist for Malkin.

Would trade him for Ovy or Crosby? Yeah, I would have to, because those two players are worth even more to a team than the best goalie in the NHL. Still, I would also hate to be put in that position because of the emotional aspect someone brought up above.

Shadowrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:28 PM
  #29
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It speeds along the process. How you cant see that is beyond me.

And if you think the Rangers are operating the same way, you're even more lost on the subject.

How exactly did the Flyers "stay competitive" during their 22-win 2006-2007 season where they were the worst team in the league?
How did that speed along the process for them? What key players on their current team did they draft the off-season after they "tanked" with their high draft picks from finishing so poorly? You're the one who doesn't seem to understand.... They surrounded their key younger players with veterans acquired via FA...

Flyers went out and spent a lot of money on the FA market, just like the Rangers did... But they targeted players who are subsequently delivering for them.... Briere/Timmonen/Pronger.... Rangers got stuck with the likes of Gomez/Drury/Redden....

You're still going to argue the Flyers did a complete rebuild huh?

Quote:
2005–06 2nd, Atlantic Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 2–4 (Sabres)
2006–07 5th, Atlantic Did not qualify
2007–08 4th, Atlantic Lost in Conference Finals, 1–4 (Penguins)
2008–09 3rd, Atlantic Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 2–4 (Penguins)
2009–10 3rd, Atlantic Lost in Finals, 2-4 (Blackhawks)
They had one horrible season and that's it....

Rangers replace the likes of Drury/Redden/Rozsival with different FA acquisitions and this is an entirely different Rangers team....

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:36 PM
  #30
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 17,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Rangers replace the likes of Drury/Redden/Rozsival with different FA acquisitions and this is an entirely different Rangers team....
This. If the Rangers had actually nabbed FAs worth the huge contracts, the Rangers would easily be a SC contender.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:38 PM
  #31
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Rangers replace the likes of Drury/Redden/Rozsival with different FA acquisitions and this is an entirely different Rangers team....
I 1000000% agree with this situation. Imagine we spent on $$ Redden was making on Volchenkkov (sp?) or Gonchar?

What if we spent the $$ on Drury on Camellari (SP!? haha) when he was FA...

Rosi, Not a HUGE overpayment. He really isn't the real problem. A team can be competitive and have him for 5mill/yr.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:42 PM
  #32
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
This. If the Rangers had actually nabbed FAs worth the huge contracts, the Rangers would easily be a SC contender.
So thats it?! Eureka! If the Rangers had elite players, they'd be a contender.

The message behind this all-too-obvious conclusion is that if the Rangers had the foresight to know that they didnt have the horses to compete, they could have spent their time picking up assets, which could do nothing but help the situation going forward.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 04:46 PM
  #33
Garfinkel1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 3,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So thats it?! Eureka! If the Rangers had elite players, they'd be a contender.

The message behind this all-too-obvious conclusion is that if the Rangers had the foresight to know that they didnt have the horses to compete, they could have spent their time picking up assets, which could do nothing but help the situation going forward.
That's actually not what he said. He said if the rangers had FA's worth their contracts. Not if the Rangers had elite players. There's a huge difference.

For example, If Frolov works out... he would go under the 'FA worth his contract' and would fit into what BlueshirtBlitz was saying and yet still not be an elite player.

And yes, I've made the connection that players worth huge contracts typically are elite players but not always the case.

Read a little before trying to be so condescending because your doing all wrong.

Garfinkel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 05:05 PM
  #34
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 17,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So thats it?! Eureka! If the Rangers had elite players, they'd be a contender.

The message behind this all-too-obvious conclusion is that if the Rangers had the foresight to know that they didnt have the horses to compete, they could have spent their time picking up assets, which could do nothing but help the situation going forward.
In the case of Redden, his last two years before he signed with us should've been a precursor that he wasn't worth as much money as he was being given.

It's a wonder what happened to Drury and I agree not much is possible to detect that he would've dropped off so hard.

Roszival has been on a steady decline and was not worth the 6 mil in 08- he wasn't terrible, but not deserving of 6 million.

And look- the contract most people have the most problem with (Redden's) is the one that could've been stopped the easiest.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 05:27 PM
  #35
PacManNJD
Let's get clever.
 
PacManNJD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 18,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
and lol @ Kovalchuk being a franchise player.
Once Marty hangs it up, Parise and Kovalchuk will be the franchise players.

PacManNJD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 05:42 PM
  #36
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
He's a One-Way player. Lacks the defensive half of the game. Franchise players should be players who at least have responsible defense. Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Zetterberg, Ovechkin, Getzlaf, Toews, Stastny, Nash, Parise, M. Richards, Thornton, Lecavalier, and even Gaborik to an extent.

All these players are considered 'Franchise Players', and they all share 2 traits. They have great to superb offensive talent, along with very responsible play in their own zone. Kovalchuk lacks that responsible play in his own zone.
No, no, no.

If Kovalchuk isnt a "franchise player," than Gaborik certainly is not. Not only is Gaborik's responsibility in his own zone a bit overrated in my opinion, but durability should play into the equation too.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 05:49 PM
  #37
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,724
vCash: 500
I think more teams play good defense than do play solid consistant offense. A few years back when the league cut down on the hooking and holding in an attempt to open up the game, I think it may have actually had the opposite effect. Players used to hook and hold back defensive checkers to open up room for their own puckmovers and are now unable to do so. Anyway, I think a team that plays solid offensive hockey can get by with an average to above average goalie. You just don't need to have the best goalie in the game to win anymore, and I debate whether or not it's worth it to have Hank eating up as much cap space as he does. I know he's far from the problem on this team in that regard. But look at the Hasek Sabres. Greatest goalie of the era, and what did they win? Nothing. It may be worth it to have a dominant offensive player and an average goalie rather than a dominant goalie and average offensive players. However, I think most other teams see this as well. So nobody is ever going to give fair value to us for what Henrik does for this team. That is what makes him untradeable. It's like trying to sell a house when you owe more on it than the market will bear. You're kind of forced to keep it.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 06:03 PM
  #38
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
AO or Crosby thats it...

I love hank and i honestly feel its pathetic that we have this forum


how slow is this summer

Lundqvist is our rock and to think about trading him is in comparison with Giacomin in his prime....absolutely no

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 06:17 PM
  #39
The Perfect Paradox
On hiatus.
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,459
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
AO or Crosby thats it...

I love hank and i honestly feel its pathetic that we have this forum


how slow is this summer

Lundqvist is our rock and to think about trading him is in comparison with Giacomin in his prime....absolutely no
QFT. Ovechkin or Crosby would be the only players I would even consider trading Lundqvist for.

The Perfect Paradox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 06:19 PM
  #40
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
QFT. Ovechkin or Crosby would be the only players I would even consider trading Lundqvist for.
Given the state of our team, and the recent track records of goaltenders that have won the Stanley Cup post-lockout, I gotta say theres probably quite a number of players I'd trade Lundqvist for...maybe about 10.

I dismissed the notion that goaltenders have become a bit less important to a teams success post-lockout, but it is starting to become a bit of a trend when we see the types of teams that have won the last 5 years.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 06:28 PM
  #41
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,018
vCash: 500
Ovechkin is the only player I'd trade Lundqvist 1 for 1 for but it's silly to even say. That will never happen.

If Crosby was signed long term, I think he's equal value. Outside of those two, I really doubt it's worth it. You could come up with hair-ball packages that no one would ever agree on (who would not consider Doughty and Kopitar or Toews and Keith?) but in the end, I think Roy and Luongo were the only top 3 goalies to ever get traded in the last 20 years and you can argue the teams didn't get good value for them so not sure we would either.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 07:06 PM
  #42
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Given the state of our team, and the recent track records of goaltenders that have won the Stanley Cup post-lockout, I gotta say theres probably quite a number of players I'd trade Lundqvist for...maybe about 10.

I dismissed the notion that goaltenders have become a bit less important to a teams success post-lockout, but it is starting to become a bit of a trend when we see the types of teams that have won the last 5 years.
Just because the teams that have made it the past few years does not dismiss the fact that Henrik and other elite goalies are ABSOLUTE advantages and can steal games.

I think if you put Henrik on the flyers they win....

The reason we have seen teams win with weak goalies is because there are so few elite ones out there, generally those elite goalies also stay with their teams (since it would not be smart to give them up)

Look at Brodeur, Lundqvist, Kiprusoff (traded from Sharks since they had Nabokov), Ryan Miller,

Elite goalies that leave their original teams are exceptions...they dont come often and when they do give a huge advantage to that team throughout their career.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 07:23 PM
  #43
realitystrikes*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Who cares, at the end of the day the odds of this type of blockbuster happening in the NHL are like 1 in 1,000. On top of that it makes no sense from a business perspective, he's pretty much the face of this franchise. Unless you're trading him for Crosby, why?

Why?

and lol @ Kovalchuk being a franchise player.
Oh gosh. "LOL @Kovalchuk being a franchise player". I guess some are quick to forget about the 6,000 "move heaven and earth to sign/acquire Kovalchuk" threads. But I guess grapes easily go sour when he signs with a rival team. Afterall its easier to accept not getting something if "we never wanted it anyway" lol. Anyways, we should just save the franchise tag for players that actually deserve it, like Marc Staal, that is if half of the NYR posters here didnt already label him a "franchise" defenseman.

Some of you are just silly. I mean, I remember seeing about 4 months of "steer clear of the glassman" and "hell no to Gaborik", not more than a year and a half ago. But once he's NYR property, opinions change quick. I just wish people could be more consistent with their opinions.

realitystrikes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 07:43 PM
  #44
Banks3rdLineCenter
 
Banks3rdLineCenter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickick71 View Post
Oh gosh. "LOL @Kovalchuk being a franchise player". I guess some are quick to forget about the 6,000 "move heaven and earth to sign/acquire Kovalchuk" threads. But I guess grapes easily go sour when he signs with a rival team. Afterall its easier to accept not getting something if "we never wanted it anyway" lol. Anyways, we should just save the franchise tag for players that actually deserve it, like Marc Staal, that is if half of the NYR posters here didnt already label him a "franchise" defenseman.

Some of you are just silly. I mean, I remember seeing about 4 months of "steer clear of the glassman" and "hell no to Gaborik", not more than a year and a half ago. But once he's NYR property, opinions change quick. I just wish people could be more consistent with their opinions.
Not a good idea to cast blanket aspersions on the posters here. The opinions were split fairly evenly in regards to the Kovalchuk issue. Not everyone was dying to get him.

Banks3rdLineCenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 07:50 PM
  #45
Primetime Powerplay
Muh Offensive Talent
 
Primetime Powerplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country:
Posts: 8,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickick71 View Post
Oh gosh. "LOL @Kovalchuk being a franchise player". I guess some are quick to forget about the 6,000 "move heaven and earth to sign/acquire Kovalchuk" threads. But I guess grapes easily go sour when he signs with a rival team. Afterall its easier to accept not getting something if "we never wanted it anyway" lol. Anyways, we should just save the franchise tag for players that actually deserve it, like Marc Staal, that is if half of the NYR posters here didnt already label him a "franchise" defenseman.

Some of you are just silly. I mean, I remember seeing about 4 months of "steer clear of the glassman" and "hell no to Gaborik", not more than a year and a half ago. But once he's NYR property, opinions change quick. I just wish people could be more consistent with their opinions.
Dont you understand Kovy is garbage and and and hes not a winner!

Primetime Powerplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 08:05 PM
  #46
DubiDubiDoo
Registered User
 
DubiDubiDoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Garden City, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,927
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DubiDubiDoo
The problem with the original question is that we are not comparing apples to apples, goalies and skaters are different entities, there are very few top quality goalies in the league that I would ever trade for a skater straight up.
Penguins fans are absolute fools if they wouldn't trade Malkin for Lundqvist straight up, and I am not under valuing Malkin at all, he's one of my favorite players in the league. Having a goalie like Hank on a team constructed well like pittsburgh would be insane, we've watch Hank be the guy that has to steal games night in and out for the Rangers, could you imagine if he just had to be a bit better than average? He would win 40-50 games easily on the Pens and instead of being a Regular season beast that was vunerable come playoff time do to goaltending.
Case in Point, every playoff series the Pens begin I always find myself saying "the pens are a better team, but if (philly,montreal,washington,etc) get to fleury it wont matter." With Hank I would always view them as favorites, even with the loss of Malkin.
Truth be told I wouldn't trade Hank for any individual skater, it would require a package that made us better. Trading Hank for Ovy or Crosby in my opinion results in an equal # of wins for the team, and as such isn't worth it.
Laugh at me but for Hank I'd want the following and I'd be willing to send a 1st rounder back in certain instances-
Leafs- Kessel, Schenn, Gustavson
Kings- kopitar, Johnson, Quick
St.Louis- Oshie, Johnson, Halak
Hawks- Kane, Kieth
Pitt-Malkin, Fleury

These are the kind of deals that would allow us to MAYBE win more games than if we had Hank, BUT granted I havent considered how these deals would effect the wins/losses of the other teams

DubiDubiDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 08:05 PM
  #47
pwoz
Registered User
 
pwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Any forward who consistently puts up 80+ points (esp if it's always 40+ goals) is a franchise player.

pwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 08:08 PM
  #48
DubiDubiDoo
Registered User
 
DubiDubiDoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Garden City, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,927
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DubiDubiDoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
Dont you understand Kovy is garbage and and and hes not a winner!
Kovy isn't garbage, he definately makes a team better and certainly makes a team more likely to get to the playoffs, the problem is as you stated, he's not a proven winner and so far a playoff turtle.
That being said, if I was a devils fan I would want Parise signed for 10 years, not Kovy for 17

DubiDubiDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 08:18 PM
  #49
Stugots
Kolo, Kolo Kolo!
 
Stugots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,234
vCash: 500
only Ovechkin, not crosby, because i like ovechkin's physical game and crosbys a little *****.

Stugots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-08-2010, 08:36 PM
  #50
PacManNJD
Let's get clever.
 
PacManNJD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 18,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
That being said, if I was a devils fan I would want Parise signed for 10 years, not Kovy for 17
Parise being a Devil for life is practically guaranteed.

He's Lou's top priority next offseason, and could very well be playing at a $6M cap hit for ten or more years.

PacManNJD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.