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Old
08-09-2010, 01:59 PM
  #76
JTG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Yeah, it's not like Staal had Kovalchuk, Crosby, Malkin, Richards and Carter in his division alone. Not to mention playing against players like Ovechkin, Savard, Vanek, Eric Staal, St. Louis, Stamkos, Cammalleri and Kessel for a majority of the other games when playing within the confrence.

He also holds his own very well against these guys, and shuts them down night in and night out. Staal is better then Michalek defensivley, even if you take the conferences into consideration.
What do you New York fans get out of listing star players in a conference? You can do that in the West too. It means absolutely nothing. The competition in the West as a whole is much stronger. And I mean, if you want to talk about who Staal matched up against, you can't put Crosby and Malkin, unless Staal was double shifting.

He does hold his own very well. I never said he didn't. I said he plays very solid defense. I also said I don't think he is a shutdown defenseman. I see him as a big minute eating guy who plays an elite two way game.

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08-09-2010, 02:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
What do you New York fans get out of listing star players in a conference? You can do that in the West too. It means absolutely nothing. The competition in the West as a whole is much stronger. And I mean, if you want to talk about who Staal matched up against, you can't put Crosby and Malkin, unless Staal was double shifting.

He does hold his own very well. I never said he didn't. I said he plays very solid defense. I also said I don't think he is a shutdown defenseman. I see him as a big minute eating guy who plays an elite two way game.
While the east as a whole may not be as good as the west, the Atlantic division is the toughest to play in in the league, especially when your on a bad team.

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08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
While the east as a whole may not be as good as the west, the Atlantic division is the toughest to play in in the league, especially when your on a bad team.
It all evens out in the end. Listing star players in a particular conference is moot.

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08-09-2010, 03:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by bretzky29ca View Post
From a Rangers standpoint, one must ask the question, with the signing of Frolov(albeit one year), is Dubinsky expendable....? Hense my proposal

To Pittsburgh: F Brandon Dubinsky

To New York Rangers: F Max Talbot
D Ben Lovejoy

From Pittsburgh's perspective, it allows them to acquire that scoring winger that Crosby definitily covets.
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How??? The rangers lack grit. If anything, they already have too many "Dubinsky" type of players.
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Originally Posted by bretzky29ca View Post
Dubinsky=soft
Gaborik=soft
Frolov=soft


TALBOT=Grit + can check the oppositions top line
You sure you know who Dubinsky is? He's neither soft nor a scoring winger.

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08-09-2010, 05:09 PM
  #80
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Woohooo, we finally get that scoring winger... Wait, you mean his career high in goals in 20? Damn.
(I'm not ripping Dubinsky, I actually like him. Just ripping the OP's odd opinion of what Duby is.)

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08-09-2010, 05:22 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NYRfan68 View Post
Rozy has been significantly better since his days with Pittsburgh.
Rozy is in our top 4, and was our #1 defenseman until Staal emerged. My person opinion is that Letang isn't as good or as well rounded as Roszival.
Fantastic, because there isn't a single Pens fan who'd want Roszival and his bloated contract for free, let alone for Letang.

5 mil per gets us Paul Martin for nothing, Glen.

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08-09-2010, 05:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
What do you New York fans get out of listing star players in a conference? You can do that in the West too. It means absolutely nothing. The competition in the West as a whole is much stronger. And I mean, if you want to talk about who Staal matched up against, you can't put Crosby and Malkin, unless Staal was double shifting.

He does hold his own very well. I never said he didn't. I said he plays very solid defense. I also said I don't think he is a shutdown defenseman. I see him as a big minute eating guy who plays an elite two way game.
Those are players that he plays with nearly every game during the season. Every shift he's out vs the Pens, he's either shutting down Malkin or Crosby. He's on the ice with both of them every time they play the Pens. When a team has two goal scoring threats like the Pens, the Rangers coaching staff makes sure he is out with both players every game. Of course they don't double shift him, but he isn't out with only Crosby the whole game. Occasionally they'll put him out against Malkin, and occasionally he'll be out against Crosby.

The point of listing all of these players was to show that while you believe that the competition in the west is "stronger", that Staal shuts down the most elite players in the game. Despite the conference he plays in, he still puts up with talent almost every game. He shuts down the opposing team's scoring threats, that has been his role his whole career, and he does it very well.

From the looks of your comments, you either don't watch Staal very much, or don't pay attention when he is on the ice. He is most certainly a shutdown d-man. I wouldn't call his two-way game "elite" at this point in his career. While his offensive game overall is slowly coming along, he has never reached the 30 point plateau in his three seasons of play.

You can make a case for him being a shutdown D-man very easily. A two way defensemen? Not at all, at least not as this point in his career. His natural abilities and the way he styles his game is exactly like a typical elite, shutdown defensemen. If you can't see that, you most likely don't watch him enough. Either that, or, your letting your extreme homerism get in your way.

Staal is a better shut down defensemen that Michalek, right now and will be in the future. I said this in another thread yesterday, the sky is the limit for Staal. His offensive game is coming along, but don't let that fool you. His shutdown game is becoming better as well. He is a natural shutdown defensemen, and all of us Ranger fans have seen this since the day he broke into the league.

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08-09-2010, 05:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Fantastic, because there isn't a single Pens fan who'd want Roszival and his bloated contract for free, let alone for Letang.

5 mil per gets us Paul Martin for nothing, Glen.
It was a different market when Rozsival was signed. Same summer that Redden, Finger, Hainey ( I think) and other dmen got large contracts.

Price ranges from offseason to offseason. I think 90% of Ranger fans would rather have Rozsival this year with his cap hit than not.

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08-09-2010, 05:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Fantastic, because there isn't a single Pens fan who'd want Roszival and his bloated contract for free, let alone for Letang.

5 mil per gets us Paul Martin for nothing, Glen.
Many levelheaded Ranger fans don't want Roszival out of NY. While he is over-payed by about a million, he fits in very well on the Rangers. He's been a solid #2 who plays in all situations. He plays his role very well and despite his cap hit, I am completely O.K with him staying on the Rangers until his contract is up.

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08-09-2010, 05:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
It was a different market when Rozsival was signed. Same summer that Redden, Finger, Hainey ( I think) and other dmen got large contracts.

Price ranges from offseason to offseason. I think 90% of Ranger fans would rather have Rozsival this year with his cap hit than not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Many levelheaded Ranger fans don't want Roszival out of NY. While he is over-payed by about a million, he fits in very well on the Rangers. He's been a solid #2 who plays in all situations. He plays his role very well and despite his cap hit, I am completely O.K with him staying on the Rangers until his contract is up.
Like I said, that's great, because there's no demand whatsoever for him from this side.

By all means, keep Rosy 'til the end of his contract and beyond. He's not tempting enough for us to give up Deryk Engelland, let alone Kris Letang, as some of your compatriots seem to believe.

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08-09-2010, 06:06 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Like I said, that's great, because there's no demand whatsoever for him from this side.

By all means, keep Rosy 'til the end of his contract and beyond. He's not tempting enough for us to give up Deryk Engelland, let alone Kris Letang, as some of your compatriots seem to believe.
I don't think that Roszival is a good fit on the Pens at this point in time.

I mainly wanted to make it known that the Rangers are in no rush to get rid of him. It seems like any thread where Roszival is bought up, he becomes bashed constantly. Then the thread becomes pointless arguing about Roszival's game and salary, which leads to completely irrelevant and stupid arguments taking over the thread.

He's a solid defensemen and all-around player, but should just be taken out of this thread in general.

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08-09-2010, 06:24 PM
  #87
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i dunno if anyone said this allready but ima be nice. Duby is a natural center. not a wing. and no. just no to all of what you said.

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08-09-2010, 06:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
I don't think that Roszival is a good fit on the Pens at this point in time.

I mainly wanted to make it known that the Rangers are in no rush to get rid of him. It seems like any thread where Roszival is bought up, he becomes bashed constantly. Then the thread becomes pointless arguing about Roszival's game and salary, which leads to completely irrelevant and stupid arguments taking over the thread.

He's a solid defensemen and all-around player, but should just be taken out of this thread in general.
Agreed. He's a competent all-around guy, it's when people start valuing him better than Letang that things get needlessly hairy.

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08-09-2010, 06:36 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jagrcantakeyou View Post
i dunno if anyone said this allready but ima be nice. Duby is a natural center. not a wing. and no. just no to all of what you said.
yet he's been moved to LW and will play that from now on, how many times does that need to be said?

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08-09-2010, 07:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Those are players that he plays with nearly every game during the season. Every shift he's out vs the Pens, he's either shutting down Malkin or Crosby. He's on the ice with both of them every time they play the Pens. When a team has two goal scoring threats like the Pens, the Rangers coaching staff makes sure he is out with both players every game. Of course they don't double shift him, but he isn't out with only Crosby the whole game. Occasionally they'll put him out against Malkin, and occasionally he'll be out against Crosby.
Dude, he's not shutting down anything. Crosby and Malkin score against the Rangers. This whole shutting down thing is getting way over blown. He's a tough guy to play against, but hardly an impenetrable wall.

I can just as easily start rattling off WC players just like you do with Staal and the EC. It's a stupid way of trying to compare players.

Quote:
The point of listing all of these players was to show that while you believe that the competition in the west is "stronger", that Staal shuts down the most elite players in the game. Despite the conference he plays in, he still puts up with talent almost every game. He shuts down the opposing team's scoring threats, that has been his role his whole career, and he does it very well.

From the looks of your comments, you either don't watch Staal very much, or don't pay attention when he is on the ice. He is most certainly a shutdown d-man. I wouldn't call his two-way game "elite" at this point in his career. While his offensive game overall is slowly coming along, he has never reached the 30 point plateau in his three seasons of play.
I wouldn't call any part of his game elite at this point in time. He could use work in all facets of the game. He isn't a shutdown defenseman though. His career potential is that of a Sergei Gonchar, IMO. He's a top pairing guy, who can play solid defense and rack up points. He's not going to be a Robyn Regehr or a Brooks Orpik who is a punishing player to play against. Teams are probably going to score when he's on the ice sometimes, more than they would against a guy who is all defense, but that will be countered by him creating offense from the back end.

Quote:
You can make a case for him being a shutdown D-man very easily. A two way defensemen? Not at all, at least not as this point in his career. His natural abilities and the way he styles his game is exactly like a typical elite, shutdown defensemen. If you can't see that, you most likely don't watch him enough. Either that, or, your letting your extreme homerism get in your way.

Staal is a better shut down defensemen that Michalek, right now and will be in the future. I said this in another thread yesterday, the sky is the limit for Staal. His offensive game is coming along, but don't let that fool you. His shutdown game is becoming better as well. He is a natural shutdown defensemen, and all of us Ranger fans have seen this since the day he broke into the league.
He's not better than Michalek right now. No matter how much you say it, it won't be true. In the future, he very well could be. Could being the key word.

I think you just get off saying shutdown defense, but don't entirely know what that entails. I saw Staal in about 15-20 games this season and as I've said before, he is a tough player to play against. He has a long stick, great mobility, and knows how to use both of them to his advantage, but he isn't a shutdown guy, nor if I were the Rangers, would I want him to be. He needs to be given the opportunity to be offensive, and in being a shutdown defenseman, you give up some of that offensive responsibility.

I'd also like to know how many times you've seen Michalek in Phoenix. My guess is zero...just like a great majority of people. Don't worry though, you'll be seeing a great deal of him for the next 5 seasons.


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08-09-2010, 10:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Dude, he's not shutting down anything. Crosby and Malkin score against the Rangers. This whole shutting down thing is getting way over blown. He's a tough guy to play against, but hardly an impenetrable wall.
I heard a young Rod Langway built a time machine just so he could travel to 2010 and learn how to play defense watching Marc Staal.

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08-09-2010, 10:46 PM
  #92
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When did Brandon Dubinsky become the cailber of player that a team would overpay for? If Shero offered a Letang, Martin, Michalek, or a player of that stature up, Slats would most certainly listen.

Don't take the Heatley deal that Slats wouldn't trade Dubinsky for Heatley, because any GM would. Ottawa wanted a ton on top of Dubinsky to make that deal happen, and that his why things got hung up.

Dubinsky is a good 2nd line center. Nothing more than that.
On no contending team is Brandon Dubinsky even a bad second line center. Period. Every last playoff team last year had two centers better than him. He's a nice player, but if he's your second line center, you're not winning anything. His impact is greatest as a hard-nosed third line center, and the Pens don't need to spend assets on that for clear reasons.

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