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GSP vs A. Silva, GSP WINS AND IS #1 P4P

View Poll Results: Who would win this bout ?
GSP 19 52.78%
A. SILVA 17 47.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-08-2010, 01:13 AM
  #26
Cyris
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i would have said Anderson before the Sonnen fight but now I think it would be GSP.
Sonnen might be bigger but GSP is better at everything else. I knew Anderson had some problems with wrestlers but I didn't realize till now just how venerable he is. GSP has the perfect style to beat him size would be a huge problem tho

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08-08-2010, 02:53 AM
  #27
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I wouldn't have been very confident in GSP before tonight's fight but if his wrestling and strength translate to 185 and he could take Silva down, I think he wins the fight.

Preferably, I'd say you would give him a fight at 185 with another wrestler as a trial run but other than Sonnen, there's really no one to match him up with in the regard. The only other guy is Jake Shields but he's at 170 now.

I would let it play out. Silva should be ready for his next title defense around the time GSP fights Koscheck. The only logical match ups for Silva are currently a rematch with Sonnen and a match with Belfort. Dana wouldn't commit to Fitch getting the next title shot so assuming GSP and Shields both win, I think they'd match up next. They could both complete their two fights and then re-evaluate. If GSP can get by Koscheck again and he can beat Shields (who's coming back down from 185) then I'd say let him fight Silva for the MW belt as well assuming he still has it. They each have nothing left to prove unless something drastic happens in each division and if GSP can take out Shields, I think it's safe to say his wrestling will be good enough for 185.

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08-08-2010, 02:57 AM
  #28
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If Dana won't commit to Fitch getting the next shot it means he'll face the winner of Sheilds/Kampmann.

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08-08-2010, 03:11 AM
  #29
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GSP will win easily IMO after the match i saw tonight

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08-08-2010, 03:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
If Dana won't commit to Fitch getting the next shot it means he'll face the winner of Sheilds/Kampmann.
He keeps bringing up the timing of it all. GSP/Koscheck is in December. Shields/Kampmann is in October. Fitch just fought and is getting married next month but said he's waiting on a honeymoon until he knows when his next fight is or isn't.

I don't really see the timing issues unless Shields/Kampmann are both unimpressive or the winner is hurt and ends up on the shelf. IMO Shields will beat Kampmann and get the next title shot. A possible Fitch/Shields contender match makes sense but I don't like the idea of GSP having been on the sidelines for 9 months between title defenses and then having another long break as well waiting on Fitch/Shields. He's also mentioned in the past he'd want to take his time training/putting on weight to fight at 185 although that may have changed after tonight.

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08-08-2010, 03:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
He keeps bringing up the timing of it all. GSP/Koscheck is in December. Shields/Kampmann is in October. Fitch just fought and is getting married next month but said he's waiting on a honeymoon until he knows when his next fight is or isn't.

I don't really see the timing issues unless Shields/Kampmann are both unimpressive or the winner is hurt and ends up on the shelf. IMO Shields will beat Kampmann and get the next title shot. A possible Fitch/Shields contender match makes sense but I don't like the idea of GSP having been on the sidelines for 9 months between title defenses and then having another long break as well waiting on Fitch/Shields. He's also mentioned in the past he'd want to take his time training/putting on weight to fight at 185 although that may have changed after tonight.
Hmm, yeah your right. Because then if Kampann won you could make the case that he's ready because of Sheilds' resume.

This is the one thing I can't stand about the UFC.

I miss guys like Gumby fighting twice a month on a regular basis.

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08-08-2010, 03:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Hmm, yeah your right. Because then if Kampann won you could make the case that he's ready because of Sheilds' resume.

This is the one thing I can't stand about the UFC.

I miss guys like Gumby fighting twice a month on a regular basis.
I'm pretty sure Dana/Joe Silva already know what they want to do but the results just have to play out the way they want them - which is Shields beating Kampmann - at least somewhat impressively; otherwise, they would have already committed to Fitch or Fitch vs. Shields/Kampmann challenger match. I don't think they made such a big deal about courting and acquiring Jake only to make him toil on the sidelines while Fitch gets a second crack at a guy that dominated him. Fitch has a ton of heart, grappling and wrestling but he's not athletic enough or strong enough to beat GSP. I think he may do better this go around but he wouldn't have a shot at winning.

If GSP beats Koscheck and then Shields he might as well go up to 185 for awhile and go for that belt while the 170 division works itself out. Plus, I think Shields/GSP would be a war.

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08-08-2010, 03:54 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I'm pretty sure Dana/Joe Silva already know what they want to do but the results just have to play out the way they want them - which is Shields beating Kampmann - at least somewhat impressively; otherwise, they would have already committed to Fitch or Fitch vs. Shields/Kampmann challenger match. I don't think they made such a big deal about courting and acquiring Jake only to make him toil on the sidelines while Fitch gets a second crack at a guy that dominated him. Fitch has a ton of heart, grappling and wrestling but he's not athletic enough or strong enough to beat GSP. I think he may do better this go around but he wouldn't have a shot at winning.

If GSP beats Koscheck and then Shields he might as well go up to 185 for awhile and go for that belt while the 170 division works itself out. Plus, I think Shields/GSP would be a war.
The thing for me with Fitch and Sheilds, is that GSP is better at what they are best at...So since neither are great strikers and GSP has some decent hands/feet you really have to wonder why GSP is in this division.

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08-08-2010, 04:08 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
The thing for me with Fitch and Sheilds, is that GSP is better at what they are best at...So since neither are great strikers and GSP has some decent hands/feet you really have to wonder why GSP is in this division.
That's why I want to see GSP/Shields first. Shields is a great MMA wrestler with good BJJ. He's also recently been fighting at 185, where's he's recently beaten Dan Henderson, Jason Miller, and Robbie Lawler. I wouldn't bet against GSP but I think Shields would be his toughest challenge since BJ Penn before he ever held the belt. If GSP can out-wrestle Shields and dominant him the way he has other great wrestlers, he'll have beaten the best or second best potential wrestler in the MW division (Sonnen, Shields). Shields has proven his skills translate to the MW division. If GSP proves to be better, especially in dominating fashion, I'd hide your belt Anderson.

I have no interest in seeing GSP/Fitch II unless Fitch is clearly the only option and it's because GSP is defending his belt occasionally but not fighting full time at 170.

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08-08-2010, 04:10 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by karzanPalani View Post
GSP will win easily IMO after the match i saw tonight
Because a much bigger fighter was able to take Anderson down and also drop him with a punch?

IMO Anderson is too big for GSP and GSP does not have the power to really hurt Anderson with his striking.

It would be like BJ going up to fight GSP. BJ could take anyone down at 155 and really punish them with his striking. Then he went up and fought a much bigger GSP and got destroyed.

I think Anderson would knock GSP out.

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08-08-2010, 04:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Because a much bigger fighter was able to take Anderson down and also drop him with a punch?

IMO Anderson is too big for GSP and GSP does not have the power to really hurt Anderson with his striking.

It would be like BJ going up to fight GSP. BJ could take anyone down at 155 and really punish them with his striking. Then he went up and fought a much bigger GSP and got destroyed.

I think Anderson would knock GSP out.
Sonnen has the same of less power then GSP and he managed to rock Silva a few times. You'd think that a more technical striker like GSP would fair better.

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08-08-2010, 05:26 AM
  #37
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I think you guys are under-estimating the size difference substantially. That, and I don't think GSP's wrestling is better than Sonnen's necessarily, even if they were magically the same size. Sonnen is world class, too.

Chael Sonnen fought the fight of his life, and one momentary lapse cost him the fight. Anderson Silva capitalizes on openings, and wins.

Further, Silva mentioned he was fighting through a rib injury that he said was extensive enough that he was medically advised not to fight. Any chest injury has a drastic impact on takedown defense, and the ability to get the fight back to the feet. Regardless of the extent, he did not look 100%.

Lastly, I think GSP's standup is overstated, because his opponents are so concerned about defending takedowns, they are less offensively aggressive standing (well, and because this is HFBoards and posters are overwhelmingly Canadian). Not because GSP is masterful on his feet.

I take Anderson Silva.

P4P though, maybe GSP is the best right at this moment. It's the wrestling era of MMA.

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08-08-2010, 05:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Sonnen has the same of less power then GSP and he managed to rock Silva a few times. You'd think that a more technical striker like GSP would fair better.
I disagree with that. I think Sonnen has more power than GSP.

GSP is the more technical striker but he isn't willing to stand with any WW so why would he stand with the best striker in all of MMA? If he stands with him, he's getting knocked out.

As Kurt said, the size difference is huge. GSP might have the skills to take on Anderson but he doesn't have the overall size, height, reach, and power to do what Sonnen did.

Also, is GSP's wrestling really that much better than Sonnen's?

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08-08-2010, 05:51 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I disagree with that. I think Sonnen has more power than GSP.

GSP is the more technical striker but he isn't willing to stand with any WW so why would he stand with the best striker in all of MMA? If he stands with him, he's getting knocked out.

As Kurt said, the size difference is huge. GSP might have the skills to take on Anderson but he doesn't have the overall size, height, reach, and power to do what Sonnen did.

Also, is GSP's wrestling really that much better than Sonnen's?
Well GSP was taking guys down with ease who where either super hard to take down(Hughes) or had never been taken down(Penn).

Is taking Silva down that impressive?

This cat took Silva down multiple times and held him there for 10 mins and is only 5'9-'10 and fights at 155...

^Guy on the left.

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08-08-2010, 12:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Well GSP was taking guys down with ease who where either super hard to take down(Hughes) or had never been taken down(Penn).

Is taking Silva down that impressive?

This cat took Silva down multiple times and held him there for 10 mins and is only 5'9-'10 and fights at 155...

^Guy on the left.
I came in here to actually see what people were talking about, and the first thing I notice is the same tired debate that I've seen already. 10 years ago, get over it, it has no relevance to anything anymore.


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08-08-2010, 12:34 PM
  #41
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I came in here to actually see what people were talking about, and the first thing I notice is the same tired debate that I've seen already. 10 years ago, get over it, it has no relevance to anything anymore.


lol just bugging ya buddy.

Just wanted to show that it doesn't matter how big the wrestler is, considering its been proven against Silva in the beginning middle and the tail end of his career

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08-08-2010, 03:12 PM
  #42
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lol just bugging ya buddy.

Just wanted to show that it doesn't matter how big the wrestler is, considering its been proven against Silva in the beginning middle and the tail end of his career
Yes, but it's another way for you to bring up your weird basis of thinking that a fight from 10 years ago has any bearing on a fight that would take place today and in the process discrediting the quality of Silva.

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08-09-2010, 01:01 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Because a much bigger fighter was able to take Anderson down and also drop him with a punch?

IMO Anderson is too big for GSP and GSP does not have the power to really hurt Anderson with his striking.

It would be like BJ going up to fight GSP. BJ could take anyone down at 155 and really punish them with his striking. Then he went up and fought a much bigger GSP and got destroyed.

I think Anderson would knock GSP out.
There is a big difference between GSP moving up and Penn moving up. Silva's strength is a striker, and a weight advantage helps a striker less than it does a grappler like GSP. If Shields had success at MW, why wouldn't GSP have more success? Also, while GSP isn't a natural MW like Sonnen, he has greater reach, which leads him to being more competitive against Anderson's true physical advantage--his long limbs, which are far more important to him than any weight advantage he would have. The bottom line is this--GSP is a better guard passer than sonnen, better striker, less prone to being subbed, and is able to attempt subs himself. Is it possible that Anderson knocks out GSP or submits him from the bottom? Possibly, but if he does, his win will have little to do with his weight advantage.

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08-09-2010, 01:11 AM
  #44
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I think you guys are under-estimating the size difference substantially. That, and I don't think GSP's wrestling is better than Sonnen's necessarily, even if they were magically the same size. Sonnen is world class, too.
Are you guys kidding me? Sonnen's takedowns might be equivalent, but Sonnen just sits in his opponents guard while GSP is one of the best guard passers in the game. Wrestling in MMA isn't all about takedowns (although GSP's are certainly the most explosive in the game).

Quote:

Chael Sonnen fought the fight of his life, and one momentary lapse cost him the fight. Anderson Silva capitalizes on openings, and wins.
Yeah, and GSP would be far less likely to provide that opening. He has only one sub loss while Sonnen has several.


Quote:
Further, Silva mentioned he was fighting through a rib injury that he said was extensive enough that he was medically advised not to fight. Any chest injury has a drastic impact on takedown defense, and the ability to get the fight back to the feet. Regardless of the extent, he did not look 100%.
Who knows what the extent of the injury was.

Quote:
Lastly, I think GSP's standup is overstated, because his opponents are so concerned about defending takedowns, they are less offensively aggressive standing (well, and because this is HFBoards and posters are overwhelmingly Canadian). Not because GSP is masterful on his feet.
The above is meaningless. In MMA it's how the component parts fit together--I would argue GSP is a better MMA wrestler than most collegiate wrestlers because he uses his striking to set up takedowns and uses jiu jitsu to aid his top control/guard passing. It doesn't matter come fight time how good GSP is in each category in isolation because fights don't occur in isolated component parts.

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It's the wrestling era of MMA.
The above is certainly true--Silva was the biggest counter argument to wrestling's dominance but he has now proven his own susceptibility to wrestling.

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08-09-2010, 01:40 AM
  #45
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Yes, but it's another way for you to bring up your weird basis of thinking that a fight from 10 years ago has any bearing on a fight that would take place today and in the process discrediting the quality of Silva.
I hold it against any fighter, any athlete. GSP is open to getting clipped and a lot of fighters might assume he was a weak chin...and he might. Also if GSP can be arm barred by Hughes then it could easily happen again.
Now I'm not at all saying Silva can't get better at it, he's just shown a weakness to it.
I wasn't trying to discredit his quality, I was just showing that the size in this issue isn't as large a factor as people think, if you saw who I quoted.


*
Like the poster above me stated, if Jake Shields has been doing fine at MW, and the guy hasn't been that ripped until recently, why would GSP(who I believe would tool Shields at his own game and then some) have more trouble?

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08-09-2010, 08:54 AM
  #46
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The guard passing/improving position quality in MMA is a bit hard to figure out because not all guys actively go to try to do those things if they don't feel they need to.. so sometimes saying a guy is better at it really isn't a big deal.

Sonnen and GSP are both very high-level wrestlers. Both have the ability to take someone like Silva down often. What else needs to be said? It seems like some new thing in analyzing fighters where their always has to be a concise better wrestler argument, and it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.

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08-09-2010, 09:02 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
I hold it against any fighter, any athlete. GSP is open to getting clipped and a lot of fighters might assume he was a weak chin...and he might. Also if GSP can be arm barred by Hughes then it could easily happen again.
Now I'm not at all saying Silva can't get better at it, he's just shown a weakness to it.
I wasn't trying to discredit his quality, I was just showing that the size in this issue isn't as large a factor as people think, if you saw who I quoted.


*
Like the poster above me stated, if Jake Shields has been doing fine at MW, and the guy hasn't been that ripped until recently, why would GSP(who I believe would tool Shields at his own game and then some) have more trouble?
GSP/Serra was only 3 years ago, which makes it much more relevant than one from 10 years. And then you know, there's the whole thing about it being his first fight ever.. that might have played into it. Lots of guys have weird losses when they first started that mean nothing now.. Shields, Fitch, Dos Santos etc. If you hold stuff like that against a fighter then I guess that's up to you, but it's just really odd for the purpose of analyzing fights.

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08-09-2010, 12:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by mark9 View Post
GSP/Serra was only 3 years ago, which makes it much more relevant than one from 10 years. And then you know, there's the whole thing about it being his first fight ever.. that might have played into it. Lots of guys have weird losses when they first started that mean nothing now.. Shields, Fitch, Dos Santos etc. If you hold stuff like that against a fighter then I guess that's up to you, but it's just really odd for the purpose of analyzing fights.
But the Hughes loss was 6 years ago

Yeah theres no doubt that it was a long time ago and that fighters can improve, I should really be more, in depth, because I'm not trying to discredit anyone, I look at every fighters strengths and weaknesses objectively.
So when I say that Silva has shown a pension for getting taken down and held down, yes its a little short sighted of me to only bring up a case that was his first fight.
Besides Luis Azerado, Takase took him down and subbed him out, Okami was holding him down fine until the up kick, Hendo got a round against Silva with his wrestling and most recently Chael got in 4.5 rounds against Silva.
And thats not even going through fight by fight and seeing how many times Silva has been taken down

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08-09-2010, 02:03 PM
  #49
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Oh definately, lots of examples of Silva getting taken down. Lutter, Sonnen, etc..

It's definately fair to say that Silva can get taken down, but nobody really knows if that's the way to beat him. It seems like it should be, but he's dangerous down there too as guys like Lutter, Sonnen, and Henderson will attest to. You have to finish him while he's down there, Lutter might've come the closest.

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08-09-2010, 08:28 PM
  #50
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GSP is better than Sonnen in pretty much everything and Sonnen owned Silva last night. So yeah that fight pretty much gave GSP the #1 P4P spot.

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