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Old
08-09-2010, 07:23 PM
  #26
maverick9
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Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
Some very tough decisions to make due to the salary cap. IF no more moves are made, IF Langkow is 100% then I would make some controversial moves. I would actually keep Kotalik as we need scoring. One thing I would not worry about is the veterans or the dressing room. They all know it's a business and as well this team hasn't done anything in 6 years so they are not owed anything IMO.

Here goes:

Place Sarich and Moss on waivers, demote to Abbotsford if they clear.

My lineup:

Kiprusoff/Karlsson

Pelech/Bouwmeester
White/Regehr
Staois/Giordano
Pardy

Tanguay/Stajan/Iginla
Backlund/Jokinen/Kotalik
Hagman/Langkow/Bourque
Glencross/Stone/Jackman
Ivanans

$58.2 million cap hit. Recall Sarich/Moss if anyone hits LITR or in March when their cap hits are low.

I would have liked to have kept Sarich over Staois but the savings was $900,000.
i agree that moss may not be on the team come the start of the season but he could probably be moved and although sarich has some money owed for 2 seasons could be a fit on a team. even if the flame took half back the savings would help significantly.

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08-09-2010, 08:16 PM
  #27
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No it's not a joke, read my post, "assuming no more moves are made". Sutter may have no choice but demotions to get under the cap. Take a look at the depth charts around the NHL combined with their cap charts. Who takes Sarich in a trade without the Flames taking salary back? Sarich is owed $7.2 million for next 2 years and is a 3rd pairing defenceman and is of the out of style "physical, stay at home" type of defenseman.

Pelech with Bouw doesn't mean he plays PP, PK or significant time in the 3rd. That's why there are coaches on the bench.

It all comes down to the salary cap. I guess we could keep the combo of Sarich/Moss and demote the combo of Staois/Kotalik. I just wonder what Kotalik could deliver if he gets some confidence.
That doesn't matter. You still chose Kotalik over Sarich. Why?

If we drop Moss for no roster players we will be under the CAP.

Pelech with Boumeester.... don't even try to justify it. It is a horrible idea to start with. You do not play your #1 with your #6-7.

Physical shutdown D are "out of style?" The more you say the more I laugh. Physicality is a needed presence. In the playoffs if you can take top players out of the game then you do it. Sarich can do that. On an average regular season night Sarich is a below average #4. Down the stretch and in the playoffs he is a legit top 4 D. Depth can win you a lot of things superstars can not.

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08-09-2010, 09:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Tanguay - Backlund - Iginla
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
Jokinen - Langkow - Moss
Glencross - Stone - Jackman
xIvanans/Sutter

Giordano - Bouwmeester
Regehr - White
Pardy - Sarich
xKronwall

Kiprusoff
Karlsson

This is what I hope it looks like.
you hope they put un proven rookie as 1st line center... then 3 non-playmakers together on the 3rd line (including moving Jokinen to wing who failed on the wing when the Panthers tried moving him there)... if Backlund centers the 1st line there is no hope for the Flames to make the playoffs

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08-09-2010, 09:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
you hope they put un proven rookie as 1st line center... then 3 non-playmakers together on the 3rd line (including moving Jokinen to wing who failed on the wing when the Panthers tried moving him there)... if Backlund centers the 1st line there is no hope for the Flames to make the playoffs
Disgree with that. Backlund should be a 40pt guy easy playing with Iggy. We almost made the playoffs last year with someone producing that much centring the 1st line.

I don't like the lines tho.

Jokinen was also tried on the wing with the national team and I remember seeing a quote that had their coach say he was horrible as well.

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08-09-2010, 09:47 PM
  #30
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Tanguay - Jokinen - Iginla
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
Langkow - Backlund - Kotalik
Glencross - Stone - Moss

Bouwmeester - Giordano
Regehr - White
Sarich - Pelech

Kiprusoff
Karlsson

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Old
08-09-2010, 09:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
Disgree with that. Backlund should be a 40pt guy easy playing with Iggy. We almost made the playoffs last year with someone producing that much centring the 1st line.

I don't like the lines tho.

Jokinen was also tried on the wing with the national team and I remember seeing a quote that had their coach say he was horrible as well.
Jokinen put up 50 points last year... Stajan almost 60 and despite his injury troubles Langkow still put up 40... so no 40 points on our top line isnt enough... Backlund has shown absolutely nothing to prove he is a top 6 forward let alone a 1st liner... the way he is overrated by Flames fans is downright pathetic

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08-09-2010, 10:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
you hope they put un proven rookie as 1st line center... then 3 non-playmakers together on the 3rd line (including moving Jokinen to wing who failed on the wing when the Panthers tried moving him there)... if Backlund centers the 1st line there is no hope for the Flames to make the playoffs
That says it all. I am not so fast to discard Backlund in a top role. That said he needs to grow into it which is what I think you are aimking at. Being the third line centre with some second line duties as well as PP time would be a decent role for Backlund this year imo. If he surprises and forces into the second line centre role even better.

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Old
08-09-2010, 11:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
Jokinen put up 50 points last year... Stajan almost 60 and despite his injury troubles Langkow still put up 40... so no 40 points on our top line isnt enough... Backlund has shown absolutely nothing to prove he is a top 6 forward let alone a 1st liner... the way he is overrated by Flames fans is downright pathetic
Hold up. I wasn't implying that Backlund WAS 1st line material, yet alone top 6 material. I was just saying that there is no reason Backlund can't play with Iggy (the 1st line). Obviously having your best centreman with your best winger is the idea but I can Backlund playing with Iggy for a stretch of time this year.

All my point was is that the season is not done if Backlund plays on the first line.

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08-10-2010, 01:02 AM
  #34
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Well I think that if Brent Sutter can for one be open minded as to who plays where I will be happy. The usual off season rotating door syndrome will mean new faces, new skills and weaknesses. Let the players try different combos and see who fits where.

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08-11-2010, 03:25 PM
  #35
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Not enough posters are taking the salary cap implications for this year seriously enough IMO. Since most didn't like my Sarich dumping here's a lineup with Kotalik gone, Dawes' buyout, Langkow healthy and Pelech/Pardy not subjected to waivers:

Kiprusoff/Karlsson

White/Regehr
Sarich/Giordano
Staois/Bouwmeester

Tanguay/Jokinen/Iginla
Hagman/Stajan/Bourque
Glencross/Langkow/Moss
Stone/Backlund/Jackman

spares - Pelech, Pardy, Ivanans

cap hit - $60.12

Drop Moss for a guy like Sutter/ Armstrong will put you right around the cap max. Not acceptable. Place Pardy on waivers and carry only two spares, again your at the cap max. Absolutely no room for a two week injury and a call up.

I mentioned Staois to Abbotsford. Posters said you can't do that to a veteran. Trade Sarich for a 4th liner. Again not acceptable to the posters.

The fact is if Langkow does not start the season on LTIR then one of Sarich/Staois have to go whatever way Sutter can find. And to me most teams have their rosters set or cap space gone. No one is going to take Sarich at $7.2 million for the next 2 years unless giving considerable salary back. Get real people, a tough choice has to be made. I like Sarich but the salary cap is on equal footing in today's NHL transactions as talent or type of draft pick.

The only other option is Moss traded/waived and Backlund sent to Abbotsford. That drops almost $2.6 million. Cap goes to 57.55. Add two 500,000 players. Cap back up to 58.55. Pardy on waivers, carry two spares. Cap hit of 57.85. But no Moss, Backlund or Pardy.

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08-11-2010, 03:46 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
Not enough posters are taking the salary cap implications for this year seriously enough IMO. Since most didn't like my Sarich dumping here's a lineup with Kotalik gone, Dawes' buyout, Langkow healthy and Pelech/Pardy not subjected to waivers:

Kiprusoff/Karlsson

White/Regehr
Sarich/Giordano
Staois/Bouwmeester

Tanguay/Jokinen/Iginla
Hagman/Stajan/Bourque
Glencross/Langkow/Moss
Stone/Backlund/Jackman

spares - Pelech, Pardy, Ivanans

cap hit - $60.12

Drop Moss for a guy like Sutter/ Armstrong will put you right around the cap max. Not acceptable. Place Pardy on waivers and carry only two spares, again your at the cap max. Absolutely no room for a two week injury and a call up.

I mentioned Staois to Abbotsford. Posters said you can't do that to a veteran. Trade Sarich for a 4th liner. Again not acceptable to the posters.

The fact is if Langkow does not start the season on LTIR then one of Sarich/Staois have to go whatever way Sutter can find. And to me most teams have their rosters set or cap space gone. No one is going to take Sarich at $7.2 million for the next 2 years unless giving considerable salary back. Get real people, a tough choice has to be made. I like Sarich but the salary cap is on equal footing in today's NHL transactions as talent or type of draft pick.

The only other option is Moss traded/waived and Backlund sent to Abbotsford. That drops almost $2.6 million. Cap goes to 57.55. Add two 500,000 players. Cap back up to 58.55. Pardy on waivers, carry two spares. Cap hit of 57.85. But no Moss, Backlund or Pardy.
One option would be to see what you can get for regehr in terms of picks/prospects. I think teams would easily take on his contract. Although I would rather use him to try and bring in a star forward...But if we're in a bind...

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08-11-2010, 04:13 PM
  #37
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Well... It's possible that this became a little bit more difficult all of a sudden.

Tanguay - Jokinen - Iginla
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
Glencross - Langkow - Moss
Sutter - Conroy - Backlund
Ivanans (Stone, Jackman)
...Kotalik?

Bouwmeester - Sarich
Regehr - White
Giordano - Staios
Pardy

Kiprusoff/Karlsson

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08-11-2010, 04:21 PM
  #38
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Tanguay - Conroy - Iginla
Glencross - Langkow - Moss
Ivanans - Stajan - Bourque
Hagman - Jokinen - Kotalik
Backlund (He can develop in the press box)

Bouwmeester - Staois
Regehr - Sarich
Giordano - White
Pardy

Kiprusoff
Whoever

I think with this veteran line-up the Flames can't possibly not win the cup this year, and the best part is, we'll be even better in 2011-2012, because our top-six will be even slower and more experienced!




Oh yeah,

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08-11-2010, 04:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post
Tanguay - Conroy - Iginla
Glencross - Langkow - Moss
Ivanans - Stajan - Bourque
Hagman - Jokinen - Kotalik
Backlund (He can develop in the press box)
It's pretty obvious looking at your line combination that you don't really know much about the Flames forwards. Conroy centering Iginla? Ivanans on the third line? Moss on the second line over Bourque? Hagman on the 4th line and Glencross on the second ?

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08-11-2010, 05:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
It's pretty obvious looking at your line combination that you don't really know much about the Flames forwards. Conroy centering Iginla? Ivanans on the third line? Moss on the second line over Bourque? Hagman on the 4th line and Glencross on the second ?
The lines are crap, but I don't think the were ordered 1-4.

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08-11-2010, 05:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
It's pretty obvious looking at your line combination that you don't really know much about the Flames forwards. Conroy centering Iginla? Ivanans on the third line? Moss on the second line over Bourque? Hagman on the 4th line and Glencross on the second ?
maybe we should also put iggy on the 4th line to shake things up. wow. corky from life goes on says this is... well fill in the blanks

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08-11-2010, 06:36 PM
  #42
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it is so up in the air right now... here are my guesses...

with Langkow healthy and Kotalik/Staios out
Tanguay, Alex $1,700,000 - Jokinen, Olli $3,000,000 - Iginla, Jarome $7,000,000
Backlund, Mikael $1,270,833 - Langkow, Daymond $4,500,000 - Bourque, Rene $3,333,333
Hagman, Niklas $3,000,000 - Stajan, Matthew $3,500,000 - Moss, David $1,300,000
Glencross, Curtis $1,200,000 - Conroy, Craig $500,000 - Jackman, Tim $550,000
Ivanans, Raitis $600,000 - Sutter, Brett $500,000 - *Buyouts* $141,667


Bouwmeester, Jay $6,680,000 - Giordano, Mark $891,667
Regehr, Robyn $4,020,000 - White, Ian $2,999,995
Pardy, Adam $700,000 - Sarich, Cory $3,600,000
Pelech, Matt $600,000

Kiprusoff, Miikka $5,833,333 - Karlsson, Henrik $500,000


leaves $1,479,172 in cap space

with Langkow healthy and keeping the same top 6 defensemen

Tanguay, Alex $1,700,000 - Jokinen, Olli $3,000,000 - Iginla, Jarome $7,000,000
Backlund, Mikael $1,270,833 - Langkow, Daymond $4,500,000 - Bourque, Rene $3,333,333
Hagman, Niklas $3,000,000 - Stajan, Matthew $3,500,000 - Glencross, Curtis $1,200,000
Sutter, Brett $500,000 - Conroy, Craig $500,000 - Jackman, Tim $550,000
Ivanans, Raitis $600,000 - Stone, Ryan $500,000 - *Buyouts* $141,667


Bouwmeester, Jay $6,680,000 - Staios, Steve $2,700,000
Regehr, Robyn $4,020,000 - White, Ian $2,999,995
Giordano, Mark $891,667 - Sarich, Cory $3,600,000
Pelech, Matt $600,000

Kiprusoff, Miikka $5,833,333 - Karlsson, Henrik $500,000

leaves $279,172 in Cap space (Stone could be called up on an emergency basis to free up 500k)

Langkow on LTIR

Tanguay, Alex $1,700,000 - Jokinen, Olli $3,000,000 - Iginla, Jarome $7,000,000
Hagman, Niklas $3,000,000 - Stajan, Matthew $3,500,000 - Bourque, Rene $3,333,333
Kotalik, Ales $3,000,000 - Backlund, Mikael $1,270,833 - Moss, David $1,300,000
Glencross, Curtis $1,200,000 - Conroy, Craig $500,000 - Jackman, Tim $550,000
Ivanans, Raitis $600,000 - Sutter, Brett $500,000 - *Buyouts* $141,667


Bouwmeester, Jay $6,680,000 - Staios, Steve $2,700,000
Regehr, Robyn $4,020,000 - White, Ian $2,999,995
Giordano, Mark $891,667 - Sarich, Cory $3,600,000
Pelech, Matt $600,000

Kiprusoff, Miikka $5,833,333 - Karlsson, Henrik $500,000

leaves us $3,520,828 over the cap (we would be allowed to exceed by $4,500,000)... we could reduce it more by moving Moss or Kotalik and having a 3rd line of Glencross - Backlund - Kotalik/Moss... then give Stone a roster spot

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08-11-2010, 07:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
It's pretty obvious looking at your line combination that you don't really know much about the Flames forwards. Conroy centering Iginla? Ivanans on the third line? Moss on the second line over Bourque? Hagman on the 4th line and Glencross on the second ?
I though the over the top cup prediction and sarcasm smiley would be enough to give away that the whole post was sarcastic. Realistically I think it will look like this:

Tanguay - Jokinen - Iginla
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
Glencross - Langkow - Kotalik
Ivanans - Conroy - Moss
Jackman/Sutter

Bouwmeester - Sarich
Regehr - White
Giordano - Staois
Pardy/Pelech

Kiprusoff
Karlsson

Backlund will be in Abbotsford next season, there's simply no room on the roster for him to make it out of camp. I know the roster won't look exactly like this (salary cap) but out of the players we have now I think that's pretty close. If Kotalik is at camp and Langkow is healthy, I think Regehr is gone (which is stupid, seeing as how Kotalik will be here) but I think Sutter is dumb enough to do it. Regehr for a 2nd, book it.

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08-11-2010, 08:28 PM
  #44
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I though the over the top cup prediction and sarcasm smiley would be enough to give away that the whole post was sarcastic. Realistically I think it will look like this:
Fair enough.

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08-11-2010, 08:57 PM
  #45
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One option would be to see what you can get for regehr in terms of picks/prospects. I think teams would easily take on his contract. Although I would rather use him to try and bring in a star forward...But if we're in a bind...
Under no circumstances does Sutter move Reggie for spare parts... we are in agreement there. Move Sarich, Staios whoever for picks and prospects but Regehr and that good contract can and will get more.

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08-11-2010, 09:29 PM
  #46
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you hope they put un proven rookie as 1st line center... then 3 non-playmakers together on the 3rd line (including moving Jokinen to wing who failed on the wing when the Panthers tried moving him there)... if Backlund centers the 1st line there is no hope for the Flames to make the playoffs
Opening night buddy...ugggh...

What is the harm in playing iggy and Backlund togther for a handfull of games. It can only help Backlund gain exprience.

It's a 3rd line with Langkow who has playmaking ability at Centre. Jokinen sucked so bad last year skating in a straight line from one end of the ice to the other...Give him a shot on the wing to do something usefull. Again it doesn't have to stay this way for long, just the first handfull of games. Plus if Langkow is long-term then Jokinen can centre.

Tanguay-Jokinen-Iginla

I think the chances of the flames making the playoffs with that first line are tough anyway.

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08-11-2010, 09:35 PM
  #47
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Under no circumstances does Sutter move Reggie for spare parts... we are in agreement there. Move Sarich, Staios whoever for picks and prospects but Regehr and that good contract can and will get more.
Should have said one pick or one prospect (higher calibre, high 2nd), or one decent pick and a prospect. I'd consider it.

Though a regehr package for a top line forward would be ideal, I agree.

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08-11-2010, 10:54 PM
  #48
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Opening night buddy...ugggh...

What is the harm in playing iggy and Backlund togther for a handfull of games. It can only help Backlund gain exprience.

It's a 3rd line with Langkow who has playmaking ability at Centre. Jokinen sucked so bad last year skating in a straight line from one end of the ice to the other...Give him a shot on the wing to do something usefull. Again it doesn't have to stay this way for long, just the first handfull of games. Plus if Langkow is long-term then Jokinen can centre.

Tanguay-Jokinen-Iginla

I think the chances of the flames making the playoffs with that first line are tough anyway.
whats the harm? we miss the playoffs by 1 point because we lose a game because players are together that don't belong together, playing out of position and playing roles they are not suited or ready for... hate to break it to you but every game counts... players have to earn their spots and Backlund has yet to do that

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08-12-2010, 09:33 AM
  #49
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whats the harm? we miss the playoffs by 1 point because we lose a game because players are together that don't belong together, playing out of position and playing roles they are not suited or ready for... hate to break it to you but every game counts... players have to earn their spots and Backlund has yet to do that
Your pulling at straws...

Tanguay-Jokinen-Iginla What if they lose us some games?

Bourque-Jokinen-Iginla What if they lose us games?

Hagman-Stajan-Iginla What if they lose us games?

etc...

Did you also know that if a team starts to lose in a game that a coach can make lineup changes that same game?!
Training camp and pre-season are for this exact purpose. If Backlund can show signs of chemistry with Iginla, then why not? There is no harm in letting the future of our franchise try playing with one of the better players and leaders in the game. It can only help him to move forward, and learn from the best. The flames only have one really good prospect who is NHL ready, why stunt him by forcing him to play with 3rd liners all season.

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08-12-2010, 12:51 PM
  #50
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One option would be to see what you can get for regehr in terms of picks/prospects. I think teams would easily take on his contract. Although I would rather use him to try and bring in a star forward...But if we're in a bind...
Regehr is not the type of player you move for CAP space. Moving Regehr would signal rebuild.

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