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Pacioretty - will he make the team this year?

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Old
08-11-2010, 08:47 PM
  #76
dcyhabs
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Max or Martin?

Is the problem really Pacioretty? Martin can deal with completely ready prospects, like Subban (not hard), and with purely defensive prospects, like Pyatt, but he has destroyed many others. He makes sure they know he will bench them if they don't succeed and then puts them in tough positions too soon. O'Byrne, Weber, and Chipchura were all damaged last year in addition to Max.

The habs have a lot of prospects coming up and they need a coach who can help the young players, not just coddle veterans and destroy the transition game. I hope Martin learned from the playoffs, but, if he didn't I hope they drop him before he turfs more promising prospects.

Carboneau was death on prospects, too, refusing to believe anyone (Streit, Perezhogin, Latendresse, Sergei) could change.

I think they need a teaching coach for a change. Boucher would have been perfect...

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08-11-2010, 08:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dcyhabs View Post
Is the problem really Pacioretty? Martin can deal with completely ready prospects, like Subban (not hard), and with purely defensive prospects, like Pyatt, but he has destroyed many others. He makes sure they know he will bench them if they don't succeed and then puts them in tough positions too soon. O'Byrne, Weber, and Chipchura were all damaged last year in addition to Max.

The habs have a lot of prospects coming up and they need a coach who can help the young players, not just coddle veterans and destroy the transition game. I hope Martin learned from the playoffs, but, if he didn't I hope they drop him before he turfs more promising prospects.
Blaming the guy who made Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Marian Hossa what they are today? Yeah. Makes perfect sense, really!

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08-11-2010, 09:04 PM
  #78
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I don't follow the reasoning of fans who say they hope he doesn't make the team. If he's playing well, he can make it. If not, he'll be shipped Hamilton. Why would he be sent to the minors if he outplays the regulars? He can always be sent down if he starts well and then has a long slump.

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08-11-2010, 09:05 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
At this point, Pacio-not-retty for the NHL. Plays a tentative game, lacks confidence and is not consistently willing to grind it out.

And am I the only one who is tired of him trying to be a 'playmaker'? We don't need a 6'2 200lb 'playmaker'. Often Pacioretty will pass the puck because he doesn't want to take the abuse that comes with carrying the puck towards the net. We need a guy who's going to strive to be a Ryan Smyth.
Guess what, he's ALWAYS been a playmaker.

Why not take him the way he is rather than force him into something he isn't?

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08-11-2010, 09:12 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Blaming the guy who made Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Marian Hossa what they are today? Yeah. Makes perfect sense, really!
Tell me you didn't just say that JM made these guys who they are please, don't tell me you wrote this ? 1 vote for post of the century. May i please use this in my sig ?

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Old
08-11-2010, 09:14 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
I don't follow the reasoning of fans who say they hope he doesn't make the team. If he's playing well, he can make it. If not, he'll be shipped Hamilton. Why would he be sent to the minors if he outplays the regulars? He can always be sent down if he starts well and then has a long slump.
It's a lot more nuanced than that.

I'm sure people would be quite happy to see a confident Max Pac make the team and play well. They just don't think it's likely and they don't want the same mistake that was done last season to happen again (Pacioretty making the team when he shouldn't have).

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08-11-2010, 09:17 PM
  #82
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Maxpac-Enqsvist-Palushaj should be one heck of a line for Hamilton!

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08-12-2010, 08:55 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Maxpac-Enqsvist-Palushaj should be one heck of a line for Hamilton!
Could also be

Pac - Eller - Avstin !

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Old
08-12-2010, 09:42 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Could also be

Pac - Eller - Avstin !
...

in Montréal !

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Old
08-12-2010, 09:42 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
I don't follow the reasoning of fans who say they hope he doesn't make the team. If he's playing well, he can make it. If not, he'll be shipped Hamilton. Why would he be sent to the minors if he outplays the regulars? He can always be sent down if he starts well and then has a long slump.

I don't follow the reasoning of fans who think a young prospect who plays on the 4th line for 8 minutes a game is good for the player and the team!! If we want him to turn into a solid player with offensive upside, playing him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line with players who have no skill certainly isn't going to make him better.....especially when he could play in Hamilton where there is no pressure on him, he can play with on the top 2 lines with very skilled players, put up points and play big minutes.

Patches will get his chance when he's ready. People who think he's ready now are very very wrong. He needs a good, full year in Hamilton where he is playing big minutes with top players and getting powerplay time....that way he will have lots of icetime to hone his skills.

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08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
...

in Montréal !

In Hamilton.

- There is no guarantee that Eller will make the Habs for sure. Chances are he will, but no guarantees yet.

- Pacioretty isn't ready for the NHL yet. He needs more playing time in the minors first.

- Avstin may never play in the NHL. He might, but not this year ahead of guys who have played in the NHL before.

We need to stop rushing our young prospects and just let them learn the ropes in the AHL. Call them up on occasion throughout the season when there are injuries or if someone is traded away....but putting them on the roster ahead of players who are ahead of them on the depth charts makes no sense.

White and Maxwell are ahead of Patches and Avstin. Eller had trouble cracking the lineup in St Louis so he might have just as much trouble doing it in Montreal too.

Just relax and let the coaches and management make the decisions of who plays where. They are the ones who know whats better for a particular player to excel and if playing in Hamilton is the best thing for a player....then its their decision....thats what they get paid for.

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08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
I don't follow the reasoning of fans who think a young prospect who plays on the 4th line for 8 minutes a game is good for the player and the team!! If we want him to turn into a solid player with offensive upside, playing him 8 minutes a game on the 4th line with players who have no skill certainly isn't going to make him better.....especially when he could play in Hamilton where there is no pressure on him, he can play with on the top 2 lines with very skilled players, put up points and play big minutes.

Patches will get his chance when he's ready. People who think he's ready now are very very wrong. He needs a good, full year in Hamilton where he is playing big minutes with top players and getting powerplay time....that way he will have lots of icetime to hone his skills.
This is your opinion. Remember this when trying to state facts.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:12 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
One goal in the Calder Cup playoffs was not very reassuring
To be fair though, when he got sent down to Hamilton, he got injured, came back too quickly got injured again and missed most of the playoffs. When he came back he worked hard but was likely rusty as everyone else was in playoff form.

Hopefully he can finally have a full healthy season next year for a change.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:15 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
This is your opinion. Remember this when trying to state facts.

I guess we'll wait and see who makes the Habs and who gets sent to Hamilton eh!!! I know its my opinion, but I'm sure the management shares this opinion too. Why ruin a player in the NHL with little playing time and lack of linemates when he can excel in the AHL with skilled players to play with and actually improve his game.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:20 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
In Hamilton.

- There is no guarantee that Eller will make the Habs for sure. Chances are he will, but no guarantees yet.

- Pacioretty isn't ready for the NHL yet. He needs more playing time in the minors first.

- Avstin may never play in the NHL. He might, but not this year ahead of guys who have played in the NHL before.

We need to stop rushing our young prospects and just let them learn the ropes in the AHL. Call them up on occasion throughout the season when there are injuries or if someone is traded away....but putting them on the roster ahead of players who are ahead of them on the depth charts makes no sense.

White and Maxwell are ahead of Patches and Avstin. Eller had trouble cracking the lineup in St Louis so he might have just as much trouble doing it in Montreal too.

Just relax and let the coaches and management make the decisions of who plays where. They are the ones who know whats better for a particular player to excel and if playing in Hamilton is the best thing for a player....then its their decision....thats what they get paid for.
Eller is Habs-bound. Gauthier pretty much all but said it, and there's a spot open for him. It's not like Maxwell and/or Desharnais were huge opponents anyway, unless Eller really messes up.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:36 AM
  #91
Pleky Roks
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Eller is Habs-bound. Gauthier pretty much all but said it, and there's a spot open for him. It's not like Maxwell and/or Desharnais were huge opponents anyway, unless Eller really messes up.

Oh I know....there is a spot for him and chances are he will make the team because he is the closest to being an NHL player that we have within our young prospects, besides Subban of course.....I'm just saying nothing is guaranteed as far as I'm concerned.

After seeing the Habs GIVE Price the #1 job before he was ready and then watching him struggle, I hope the Habs management realize that was a huge mistake and don't continue to make those mistakes with our younger players. They started to do the same thing with Pacioretty before demoting him to Hamilton.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:47 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Tell me you didn't just say that JM made these guys who they are please, don't tell me you wrote this ? 1 vote for post of the century. May i please use this in my sig ?
Saying JM made them is a little much but there is no doubt he had a direct influence on their success. Also Spezza, some say he was hard on him but I think it made him a better player in the long run. I wonder how players like Lats(when he started), Higgins, Ribeiro, Hainsey, Beachemin, might have blossomed longterm in Montreal had Martin coached them.

On Maxpac, the kid should be given a legit chance in training camp but if he doesn't outright win a spot he should be in Hamilton and show real improvement before being called up. I still have faith in this kid, he has a lot of tools just needs the toolbox.

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:58 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Blaming the guy who made Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Marian Hossa what they are today? Yeah. Makes perfect sense, really!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Tell me you didn't just say that JM made these guys who they are please, don't tell me you wrote this ? 1 vote for post of the century. May i please use this in my sig ?
Dude, CAL is right, no one can say that Martin isn't good with young players when the likes of Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Hossa all developed and thrived under his guidance.

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08-12-2010, 11:02 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Dude, CAL is right, no one can say that Martin isn't good with young players when the likes of Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Hossa all developed and thrived under his guidance.

BINGO!!

Martin is the best coach the Habs have had since Jacques Demers!!! Demers might have been more of a motivator than a good coach, but Martin knows how to develop player otherwise, like you said....players like Chara, Alfie, Havlat and Hossa wouldn't have turned into the players they are today.

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08-12-2010, 11:11 AM
  #95
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This training camp will be very interesting.

There are 11 forwards one one-way contracts. That leaves 3 spots opened for Eller, Pacioretty, Maxwell, and all the other young forwards who will be there at camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
BINGO!!

Martin is the best coach the Habs have had since Jacques Demers!!! Demers might have been more of a motivator than a good coach, but Martin knows how to develop player otherwise, like you said....players like Chara, Alfie, Havlat and Hossa wouldn't have turned into the players they are today.
You're purposefuly missing the point. They weren't the only players from Ottawa to get developed under Martin, but rather examples that he is NOT a detriment to young players as the other poster he responded to was saying. Sure he might've pushed it with his wording, but it a valid counter-argument to the other poster who said Martin "turfs" young players, especially, offensive players.

He never said they wouldn't be the players they are today, but you can't deny he wasn't a detriment, which was what the initial poster said, and you can't deny he helped them understand the game. It's not all about talent, you have to be guided to do the right things.

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08-12-2010, 11:50 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
This training camp will be very interesting.

There are 11 forwards one one-way contracts. That leaves 3 spots opened for Eller, Pacioretty, Maxwell, and all the other young forwards who will be there at camp.
Personally I can't wait to see guys such as Avtsin, Leblanc and Tinordi in this year's training camp. We'll finally get to watch our recent draft picks play in game situations against good competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You're purposefuly missing the point. They weren't the only players from Ottawa to get developed under Martin, but rather examples that he is NOT a detriment to young players as the other poster he responded to was saying. Sure he might've pushed it with his wording, but it a valid counter-argument to the other poster who said Martin "turfs" young players, especially, offensive players.

He never said they wouldn't be the players they are today, but you can't deny he wasn't a detriment, which was what the initial poster said, and you can't deny he helped them understand the game. It's not all about talent, you have to be guided to do the right things.
I also quite honestly think it's not a coincidence if each and every single of these players are considered among the most complete two-way forwards (or two-way d-men) in the game today, and all were developed per Martin.

If Sergei hadn't been that dumb, I honestly think he had everything so Martin could make wonders with him.

It'll be interesting to see how a guy like Eller will develop under him, because I really think he has all the tools required to be a Martin player.

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08-13-2010, 01:05 AM
  #97
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The problem is that people expect him to be a power forward. They expected the same from Latendresse.

But neither player is a power forward. People need to understand that being a big North American player doesn't make one a power forward. When people -- management/coaching staff included -- stop having those ridiculous expectations, those players may be able to become quality assets for the team. Had Latendresse been asked to play his game -- Carbonneau let him play his game and he was improving -- he would have been much better for us
Finally someone who gets it. People should stop labeling players based on their size but on the way they play hockey. After all, it's 15+ years of playing hockey that way that got them here in the first place.

Same thing with Kostitsyn. He's not a sniper because he's got a good shot, nor is he a power forward because he's strong. It's just not his style.

With young players, you let them develop their game first. It's what got them to the NHL. You then gradually incorporate elements into their game by making them understand how to better use their assets. But here on hfboards, you're labeled a certain type of player and then called a bust for not meeting the fans' expectations...

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Old
08-13-2010, 06:40 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Dude, CAL is right, no one can say that Martin isn't good with young players when the likes of Chara, Alfredsson, Havlat and Hossa all developed and thrived under his guidance.
These are all players with high amounts of talent, please you know as well as i they would be where they are today even if Mario Tremblay had coached them. We have no one that compares to any of these players, sorry !

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08-13-2010, 08:30 AM
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Needs seasoning in AHL first.
a little cayenne pepper and garlic salt goes a long way.

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08-13-2010, 08:38 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
These are all players with high amounts of talent, please you know as well as i they would be where they are today even if Mario Tremblay had coached them. We have no one that compares to any of these players, sorry !
They may have had a great amount of talent, but still they weren't top picks, might not mean a lot, but some players, while very talented don't amount to anything in the NHL. We just can't discredit JM totally for their development, they were young players under his coaching, and became great players while there... coincidence ? I think not...

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