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What are the lines going to be next year?

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Old
08-12-2010, 10:55 AM
  #176
CharlieGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Carcillo is going to be a top 9 guy, this is the logical place for him considering him playing with other players is him playing a bit over his head. At least Richards is more suited to the grinding style of play that Carcillo is going to bring to the ice. JvR being on a line with those two may help him grow a pair, plus teams tend to look to put punishment with Richards, Carcillo is perfect insurance.
You're kidding right? The day Richards needs Carcillo to fight his battles, he needs to retire.

Carcillo is a good 3rd/4th line grinder. When he was on the 4th line with Lappy and Betts, I thought they were the best 4th line in the league. Carcillo should never, ever be anywhere near the top line, and it's a stretch to put him in the top 6. Top 9 is even iffy.

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:01 AM
  #177
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JVR - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Carter - Briere
Leino - Giroux - Powe
Carcillo - Betts - Lappy
Shelley*

Carle - Pronger
Coburn - Timonen
Meszaros - O'Donnell
Walker

Leighton
Boucher

I feel Hartnell and JVR could swap places depending on how they perform.

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:01 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
That might be the best propose line up Kuato has seen and he still has some big issues with it.

1. There's no good shutdown line. Richards is the man you want doing that, but neither of those player seem particularly savvy in that department.

2. Carter is not a center. He didn't look good on the wing, but the man does nothing a center does. All he does is score goals. No defense, not particularly good at D, or anything else a center needs to be able to do. He does no "little things" as they say.

All that being said, Kuato can't come up with something he likes all that much more.
Best explanation so far......too many players not complementing their "positions". Can Briere or Giroux play wing? Yes. But are they better when playing from the center? Yes. If you are counting on Carter to only score goals then why put him at center when he can score from the wing and Briere and Giroux can distribute the puck.

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:18 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You're kidding right? The day Richards needs Carcillo to fight his battles, he needs to retire.

Carcillo is a good 3rd/4th line grinder. When he was on the 4th line with Lappy and Betts, I thought they were the best 4th line in the league. Carcillo should never, ever be anywhere near the top line, and it's a stretch to put him in the top 6. Top 9 is even iffy.
No, Richards needs to play his game and not have to look over his shoulder. He played like a puss until the playoffs. Carcillo played top minutes last year, what makes you think this is not going to be the case again this year. And who did he play with.......? Mike Richards. How Laviolette is going to have his roster formatted is similar to the playoffs, three lines that can score, he has the depth and firepower to do so, it is just getting the right combination.

Hartnell/Briere/Leino- After the playoffs how can you take this line apart? They were the best line for the Flyers, they should start the season together. Hartnell was cold all year along Carter, they should never play another game together, period.

Carter/Giroux/Zherdev- Come on, how can Carter not be excited to play wing with Giroux. For those who are concerned about Giroux and faceoffs.....last season he was called upon many times to take some big faceoffs, hopefully he will have improved but there is no reason Carter cannot take a faceoff and Giroux be the #2, this excuse flames immediately. Giroux with two guys who can score on his wings...........no reason he cannot be a 25-50-75pt player, and this is quite a formidable 2nd line.

JvR/Richards/Carcillo- JvR and Richards have some scoring punch, but this also gives JvR two players who can play with some grit. JvR needs to learn to use his body and not become a softie like Carter, develop a bit of a nasty streak and start throwing his body around. JvR needs to be more like Bobby Ryan and less of a perimeter player like Carter, difference is though JvR has the passing skills to spread the ice along the boards a little better, so Richards and Carcillo can take on more of a role of crashing the crease and getting in the goalies face, cause some chaos.

Shelley/Betts-Powe/Laperriere- It is what it is, a 4th line that can take 8-10minutes per game and provide 1st pairing PK minutes.

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:33 AM
  #180
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i want:
Hartnell-Richards-carter mhmm, rough tough skilled prime aged, all around offense/defensive tough to play against line.
Carcillo-briere-leino honestly hartnell didnt impress me when paired with these guys...i thought THEY were awesome, and carcillo couldve done better for support.
JVR-giroux-Zherdev see them skillz?
Shelley-betts-lapp
*powe

Pronger-carle
timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Walker

PP
JVR-carter/Briere-carter/briere true PP unit right here, i'd prefer carter at center.

pronger-carle


hartnell-richards-Zherdev
giroux-timonen (giroux on the point plz...let him have the puck as much as he wants!)


PK
richards-giroux
pronger-timonen
*carter
betts-lappy
coburn-meszaros
*powe

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:44 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
JVR - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Carter - Briere
Leino - Giroux - Powe
Carcillo - Betts - Lappy
Shelley*

Carle - Pronger
Coburn - Timonen
Meszaros - O'Donnell
Walker

Leighton
Boucher

I feel Hartnell and JVR could swap places depending on how they perform.
Who is that lovely lady in your Avatar?

Kuato advises against breaking up Briere, Hartnell, and Leino until they show they need to be.

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:49 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
No, Richards needs to play his game and not have to look over his shoulder. He played like a puss until the playoffs. Carcillo played top minutes last year, what makes you think this is not going to be the case again this year. And who did he play with.......? Mike Richards. How Laviolette is going to have his roster formatted is similar to the playoffs, three lines that can score, he has the depth and firepower to do so, it is just getting the right combination.

Hartnell/Briere/Leino- After the playoffs how can you take this line apart? They were the best line for the Flyers, they should start the season together. Hartnell was cold all year along Carter, they should never play another game together, period.

Carter/Giroux/Zherdev- Come on, how can Carter not be excited to play wing with Giroux. For those who are concerned about Giroux and faceoffs.....last season he was called upon many times to take some big faceoffs, hopefully he will have improved but there is no reason Carter cannot take a faceoff and Giroux be the #2, this excuse flames immediately. Giroux with two guys who can score on his wings...........no reason he cannot be a 25-50-75pt player, and this is quite a formidable 2nd line.

JvR/Richards/Carcillo- JvR and Richards have some scoring punch, but this also gives JvR two players who can play with some grit. JvR needs to learn to use his body and not become a softie like Carter, develop a bit of a nasty streak and start throwing his body around. JvR needs to be more like Bobby Ryan and less of a perimeter player like Carter, difference is though JvR has the passing skills to spread the ice along the boards a little better, so Richards and Carcillo can take on more of a role of crashing the crease and getting in the goalies face, cause some chaos.

Shelley/Betts-Powe/Laperriere- It is what it is, a 4th line that can take 8-10minutes per game and provide 1st pairing PK minutes.
Do you remember the PO's? What Carcillo looked terribly lost and actually was scratched as time went on?

Also, you talk a lot about Richards being able to play his game. How do you expect this to happen if he has to cover for Carcillo's lapses?

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Old
08-12-2010, 11:59 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Best explanation so far......too many players not complementing their "positions". Can Briere or Giroux play wing? Yes. But are they better when playing from the center? Yes. If you are counting on Carter to only score goals then why put him at center when he can score from the wing and Briere and Giroux can distribute the puck.
Well that's the rub, he disappears when you put him on the wing. He's not a particularly good center, but he does score more at center than he does wing. He disappears on the wing.

That being said, Kuato gives it one more chance with him on the wing as Briere simply is a better center. Though they might not even be playing together, so in that cause who plays center Carter or Giroux?

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Old
08-12-2010, 12:06 PM
  #184
CharlieGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
No, Richards needs to play his game and not have to look over his shoulder. He played like a puss until the playoffs. Carcillo played top minutes last year, what makes you think this is not going to be the case again this year. And who did he play with.......? Mike Richards. How Laviolette is going to have his roster formatted is similar to the playoffs, three lines that can score, he has the depth and firepower to do so, it is just getting the right combination.
I see. So saddling one of the guys who you're depending on to put the puck in the net with a 3rd line grinder/rat/agitator with a repuation for diving and attracting penalties makes sense? And then when he does go to the box, one of your best PK'ers is in the middle/end of a shift so he's not close to ready to go.

I know Carcillo played on the top line quite a bit last year, particularly when Gagne was injured. It doesn't mean he's first line material. Not by a long stretch. And even with all that top line time, playing with much better players, he had 12 whole goals, and 10 assists. Even Aaron Asham had better stats.

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Old
08-12-2010, 12:12 PM
  #185
Terence Peterman
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I hate this thread.

Primarily because only a small handful of players actually have defined roles, and it's hell seeing any line combination that makes a lot of sense.

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Old
08-12-2010, 12:21 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
I would think that Briere line would be third.
The top 3 lines get equal minutes more or less, so there really is no third line. There isn't even a 2nd one. It's just the order in which most of us list them.

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Old
08-12-2010, 12:58 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i want:
Hartnell-Richards-carter mhmm, rough tough skilled prime aged, all around offense/defensive tough to play against line.
Carcillo-briere-leino honestly hartnell didnt impress me when paired with these guys...i thought THEY were awesome, and carcillo couldve done better for support.
JVR-giroux-Zherdev see them skillz?
Shelley-betts-lapp
*powe

Pronger-carle
timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Walker

PP
JVR-carter/Briere-carter/briere true PP unit right here, i'd prefer carter at center.

pronger-carle


hartnell-richards-Zherdev
giroux-timonen (giroux on the point plz...let him have the puck as much as he wants!)


PK
richards-giroux
pronger-timonen
*carter
betts-lappy
coburn-meszaros
*powe

Problem you are going to have with Zherdev and JvR on the same line is you are taking a huge chance that both are going to play some form of defense. JvR is going to be better but he had some really bad defensive lapses last season, would rather put him with more experienced fwds who can play all three zones.....Mike Richards.

Also, Carter if he is on the wing should be the LW similar to Kovalchuk, force him to bring the puck to the center of the ice on his shot, gives him more net to shoot on and less chance of high and wide Carter shooting the puck out of the zone thus killing the rush.

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Old
08-12-2010, 01:01 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Do you remember the PO's? What Carcillo looked terribly lost and actually was scratched as time went on?

Also, you talk a lot about Richards being able to play his game. How do you expect this to happen if he has to cover for Carcillo's lapses?
I want Richards the physical player, not the Richards who floats around avoiding hits and taking a sip of water while his teammates get involved in a scrum.

Carcillo is going to have to take a step or else he is going to be a scratch. Guy plays hard, would love to see some of his physical play rub off on Richards and JvR early.

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Old
08-12-2010, 01:07 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I see. So saddling one of the guys who you're depending on to put the puck in the net with a 3rd line grinder/rat/agitator with a repuation for diving and attracting penalties makes sense? And then when he does go to the box, one of your best PK'ers is in the middle/end of a shift so he's not close to ready to go.

I know Carcillo played on the top line quite a bit last year, particularly when Gagne was injured. It doesn't mean he's first line material. Not by a long stretch. And even with all that top line time, playing with much better players, he had 12 whole goals, and 10 assists. Even Aaron Asham had better stats.
Homer signed him to play in the top 9, where he fits I am unsure, but if you are looking at putting him with Giroux or Briere it is plain stupid. Giroux needs to find himself with some players who can convert this year, too many times he puts the puck on a platter and teh guy on the other end cannot convert. This is why I would have loved to of seen Gagne-Giroux-Zherdev together, could have been fun to watch and allowed Zherdev to be a little loose on his center ice coverage and cheat a little.

Let's stop looking at Carter and Richards as the top dogs, it is going to take a team effort to have a successful season, which means some players may have to play some different roles and commit to the team first philosophy. While some of the younger guys like Giroux and JvR may need a little more room to be creative and take on more scoring responsibility.

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Old
08-12-2010, 01:12 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Well that's the rub, he disappears when you put him on the wing. He's not a particularly good center, but he does score more at center than he does wing. He disappears on the wing.

That being said, Kuato gives it one more chance with him on the wing as Briere simply is a better center. Though they might not even be playing together, so in that cause who plays center Carter or Giroux?
I go with the philosophy that Giroux needs the puck on his stick with open space. Laviolette's system is going to rely on guys like Briere and Giroux gaining the blueline with possession, get some offensive zone time, and work it in deep tiring out the defensemen.

When I look at the two, Carter versus Giroux, and who would I want to have the puck on their stick coming up the ice on a 3v2 it is clear that Giroux is the logical choice. What a better way to create chances for Carter than have a guy who can create space by just carrying the puck and getting Carter the puck with time to set and shoot. If Carter could ever develop a one-timer it would help to improve his game, but this is also lacking.

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08-12-2010, 01:15 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I go with the philosophy that Giroux needs the puck on his stick with open space. Laviolette's system is going to rely on guys like Briere and Giroux gaining the blueline with possession, get some offensive zone time, and work it in deep tiring out the defensemen.

When I look at the two, Carter versus Giroux, and who would I want to have the puck on their stick coming up the ice on a 3v2 it is clear that Giroux is the logical choice. What a better way to create chances for Carter than have a guy who can create space by just carrying the puck and getting Carter the puck with time to set and shoot. If Carter could ever develop a one-timer it would help to improve his game, but this is also lacking.
You can use the multi button the click on each post you want to quote and then hit quote when you are done and you will have a post with all the quotes you want.

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08-12-2010, 01:22 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You can use the multi button the click on each post you want to quote and then hit quote when you are done and you will have a post with all the quotes you want.
Yeah, I know, but I like to read and respond to each individually.

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08-12-2010, 01:30 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Yeah, I know, but I like to read and respond to each individually.
I understand, gotta beef up that post count so that people respect your opinion.

Oh look, +1 for me!

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08-12-2010, 01:35 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Who is that lovely lady in your Avatar?

Kuato advises against breaking up Briere, Hartnell, and Leino until they show they need to be.
Her name is Alizee.

Some French pop star, lol.

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08-12-2010, 01:52 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Do you remember the PO's? What Carcillo looked terribly lost and actually was scratched as time went on?
Carcillo was never the same player after he injured his knee in the Boston series. Prior to that, he was very effective.

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08-12-2010, 02:02 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I want Richards the physical player, not the Richards who floats around avoiding hits and taking a sip of water while his teammates get involved in a scrum.

Carcillo is going to have to take a step or else he is going to be a scratch. Guy plays hard, would love to see some of his physical play rub off on Richards and JvR early.
So does Kuato, but what does this have to do with Carcillo?

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08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Her name is Alizee.

Some French pop star, lol.
Ohh la la!

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08-12-2010, 02:10 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Carcillo was never the same player after he injured his knee in the Boston series. Prior to that, he was very effective.
What do you mean by very effective? He had 6 points in 17 PO games. 3 of those points came against NJ, 2 against Boston, and 1 against Montreal.

Not exactly a huge drop off (meaning it was never particularly high to begin with).

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08-12-2010, 02:21 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
What do you mean by very effective? He had 6 points in 17 PO games. 3 of those points came against NJ, 2 against Boston, and 1 against Montreal.

Not exactly a huge drop off (meaning it was never particularly high to begin with).
Carcillo's game in't based around points. It's about being physical, getting in on the forecheck, using his speed and drawing penalties.

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08-12-2010, 02:51 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Carcillo's game in't based around points. It's about being physical, getting in on the forecheck, using his speed and drawing penalties.
Which is why he has no business playing with the top 6. Points are a rather important part of those roles.

But back to the point, what was he getting done in the first around he didn't in the rest of the PO's (if it wasn't points)?

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