HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brooks "Sean Avery out of the picture?", "What if Wade Redden"...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-12-2010, 12:19 PM
  #226
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
You're ignoring the crux of the argument. Going to the front of the net is part of his game. Does he make contact and get called for it legitimately? Sure. But there's also plenty of other times he gets jobbed.

When he stops going to the net then, you'll be here criticizing his game and how he's ineffective.

Tapping the back of Tim Thomas' head isn't relevant because the play wasn't going on. That's all stuff we know Sean does to drive people insane. If I remember correctly, Thomas went bezerk. And I remember that game. I believe the Rangers lost 1-0. I had absolutely no issue with Sean doing that because THAT is Sean Avery and he was doing whatever he could to try and get Thomas off his game.

And again, you're focusing on what you think about him needing to avoid goaltenders. You're missing the point about your hypocrisy. You're calling for him to be more effective, yet aren't willing to acknowledge that what makes him effective is being hindered by his coach and officials.

I'm not sure why you're so against admitting that.
Wow, I never said he shouldn't play around the net... Why do you continually put words into my mouth and misinterpret what I'm saying? I said he should stop initiating contact with goaltenders... If you didn't see instances last year where he plowed into goaltenders with no effort to avoid contact, you weren't watching the same games... I love how you're downplaying the Tim Thomas incident.. Do you think the league wants to see that type of unnecessary crap transpire during games? Sean Avery has asked for all the scrutiny and criticism that he has received... He needs to cut out the stupid crap and play his game intelligently....

You still fail to recognize that Avery's behavior towards other team's goaltenders invites equal treatment to Lundqvist and that is the LAST THING WE NEED.... If Avery gets away with that crap and the officials don't call it, then we have the Matt Cooke's and Patrick Kaleta's plowing into Lundqvist... We don't need it, we don't need Sean doing it, and the coaching staff doesn't want to see it.... Period....

Quote:
And again, you're focusing on what you think about him needing to avoid goaltenders. You're missing the point about your hypocrisy. You're calling for him to be more effective, yet aren't willing to acknowledge that what makes him effective is being hindered by his coach and officials.
Where do you come up with this???? I'm talking about him knocking into goaltenders this whole time and you're saying I'm hypocritical because somehow Avery in your eyes can't play his game unless he's initiating contact with goaltenders? What on earth are you talking about here...


Last edited by wolfgaze: 08-12-2010 at 12:25 PM.
wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:28 PM
  #227
jniklast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
This proves what exactly? That Torts is still a hypocrite?

He can say whatever he wants. We all heard his interviews last year. Let's not act like Sean didn't hear them as well. Torts can preach all he wants but his actions and comments were hypocritical at best.
It all goes both ways. Torts doesn't exactly like Avery and his comments may be hypocritical, but that shouldn't stop him from playing good hockey. He was able to do that both under Renney and Tortorella. The difference is just that he does it much less now for whatever reason, but certainly not because Tortorella doesn't want him to.

In the end Avery is pretty safe from getting sent down (due to his contract and cap situation) and it's mostly up to him whether he will be in the press box, on the 4th or on the 3rd line. If he plays as good as he can, even Tortorella will give him enough playing time. If he plays like he did most of the time last year though, he will be out of the team quickly because Tortorella won't exactly be very patient with him either.

If you're an effective player you play, whether the coach likes you much or not, if you disappear 90% of the time, you will have problems saying in the lineup either way. That's how professional sports work.

jniklast is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:31 PM
  #228
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Agreed...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:36 PM
  #229
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Wow, I never said he shouldn't play around the net... Why do you continually put words into my mouth and misinterpret what I'm saying? I said he should stop initiating contact with goaltenders... If you didn't see instances last year where he plowed into goaltenders with no effort to avoid contact, you weren't watching the same games... I love how you're downplaying the Tim Thomas incident.. Do you think the league wants to see that type of unnecessary crap transpire during games? Sean Avery has asked for all the scrutiny and criticism that he has received... He needs to cut out the stupid crap and play his game intelligently....

You still fail to recognize that Avery's behavior towards other team's goaltenders invites equal treatment to Lundqvist and that is the LAST THING WE NEED.... If Avery gets away with that crap and the officials don't call it, then we have the Matt Cooke's and Patrick Kaleta's plowing into Lundqvist... We don't need it, we don't need Sean doing it, and the coaching staff doesn't want to see it.... Period....



Where do you come up with this???? I'm talking about him knocking into goaltenders this whole time and you're saying I'm hypocritical because somehow Avery in your eyes can't play his game unless he's initiating contact with goaltenders? What on earth are you talking about here...
No but what you're saying is naive at best. Players who play around the net, which is something Sean needs to do to be effective, are going to get goalie interference calls once in a while. Edge's post you were responding to about it even says, "Avery is going to take penalties." It's part of who he is. But it's off set but what he creates and draws from opposing teams. My problem is you're being hypocritical by criticizing him in this thread for being ineffective, and at the same time are telling him not to do something that makes him effective.

You won't acknowledge that Sean gets hosed on calls. You refuse to admit it. You think that because he's Sean Avery every call on him is legitimate and he's at fault. I've stated several times in this thread that Sean takes tons of dumb penalties. But I'm not as naive as you are when watching and it's clear as day how often he gets screwed.

The problem is you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's how you want it. You want Sean to tone down his act and at the same time be effective. Sean is effective WHEN HE IS SEAN. That's when he's at his best. But you want him change his game, which he did at times last year, and still be effective. Except judging by this thread, you'll be one of the first to call him ineffective when he does what you want him to.

The Tim Thomas incident is insignificant. We've seen plenty of players do similar things it just never gets blown up cause it's not Avery. Remember in Vancouver last year when what's his name was jabbing Avery with his stick from across the benches? Yeah, that was a huge deal for what...3 seconds. No one cares about that stuff when it's not Avery.

"..he needs to cut the crap and play his game intelligently." Why is it so hard for you and others to realize that that's part of his game? YES he can play hockey too, but it's obvious to any one with eyes that he plays it better when he's involved in all his antics.

Avery's behavior towards other goaltenders affects Lundqvist? Really? What a bunch of crap.

Hank got run over more than a piece of road kill last year, and that had nothing to do with Avery. It had to do with our weak defenseman. Between Rozi, Redden, Staal, and Girardi, those are 4 guys who will barely put their gloves on you when you crash Hank. When Del Zotto's the toughest guy on your blue line you've got issues.

You're the one with the blinders on. Another ridiculous attempt to blame Sean for something that has nothing to do with him. Just looking for reasons to criticize him.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:38 PM
  #230
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Absolutely ridiculous

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:39 PM
  #231
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
It all goes both ways. Torts doesn't exactly like Avery and his comments may be hypocritical, but that shouldn't stop him from playing good hockey. He was able to do that both under Renney and Tortorella. The difference is just that he does it much less now for whatever reason, but certainly not because Tortorella doesn't want him to.

In the end Avery is pretty safe from getting sent down (due to his contract and cap situation) and it's mostly up to him whether he will be in the press box, on the 4th or on the 3rd line. If he plays as good as he can, even Tortorella will give him enough playing time. If he plays like he did most of the time last year though, he will be out of the team quickly because Tortorella won't exactly be very patient with him either.

If you're an effective player you play, whether the coach likes you much or not, if you disappear 90% of the time, you will have problems saying in the lineup either way. That's how professional sports work.
Any idiot can figure out that a coach would want a player on his team to play good hockey. The problem is you're neglecting the coach's role in getting the message across to that player what is expected from him and getting it out of him.

The fact that you admit his comments may be hypocritical means you should be able to understand why Sean's game lacked at times, and why it was hard for him to figure out how his hypocritical coach wanted him to play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Agreed...
Since you agree with him, I'll take it as you saying you agree Torts' comments may have been hypocritical at times. Which is the crux of this whole thing to begin with. If you're getting mixed messages as a player, it's hard to figure out what your coach really wants and expects out of you.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:41 PM
  #232
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Absolutely ridiculous
That's a solid rebuttal. Another example of how biased your opinion on this is.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:45 PM
  #233
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
That's a solid rebuttal. Another example of how biased your opinion on this is.
It's not my fault you can't discuss a single confined subject matter without making all these broad generalizations and putting a bunch of misinterpreted words in posters mouths that they didn't even say... It's extremely mentally draining to try and have a legitimate discussion with you when you do this...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 12:53 PM
  #234
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
It's not my fault you can't discuss a single confined subject matter without making all these broad generalizations and putting a bunch of misinterpreted words in posters mouths that they didn't even say... It's extremely mentally draining to try and have a legitimate discussion with you when you do this...
I've made broad generalizations by calling you out for criticizing Avery's play this whole thread/trying to pin the blame solely on him without the slightest acknowledgment of any of the outside variables/stating how he needs to be him, then criticizing him for doing things that make him-him/and refusing to admit to said hypocrisy? Is that right?

If you want to interpret that as me generalizing then be my guest. It's evident now that the same eyes you use to read and interpret are the same ones you watch Avery and the Ranges with.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 01:09 PM
  #235
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Why don't you let this soak in for a minute...

The league does not want the goaltenders being targeted by players... This is not the ANTI-SEAN AVERY rule that you want to label it... This is to PROTECT THE GOALTENDERS... It has nothing to do with Sean Avery and everything to do with the goaltenders.... That's why the rules mandate that a player make every effort to avoid colliding with the goaltenders when they can... That' why the league doesn't want players intentionally facing goaltenders and holding their gloves and sticks up in front of their eyes, and that's why the league does not want to see players slapping goaltenders in the back of their heads with their stick when the play is dead, just to piss them off... How about Avery grows up and learns how to conduct himself in a manner that respects the league's mandate and our coaching staff's directives? Tortorella, Schoenfeld, and Sather know damn well it does not reflect well on our organization to continually have the league draw attention to behaviors that they deem unacceptable from our organization and that's why you'll never see Renney, Tortorella, or any other coach defend any of their players when they are doing something that the league has warned against...

Why do you keep portraying this as the "League against Sean Avery" It's a league wide referendum to protect arguably the most important players in the game... It applies to every player on the ice, not just #16 in blue...

Targeting goaltenders pisses teams off... It angers them... If the Referees don't stay on top of it and penalize the player for it, it creates a situation where the teams take matters into their own hands and decide to reciprocate.. If you're going to take runs at our goalie, we'll do the same to yours... It's happened before and it will happen again... Players have even said as much to the media when this has become an issue in playoff series...

-This is why the coaching staff doesn't encourage or support it.
-This is why the officials are inclined to pay extra close attention when players (including Sean Avery) are crashing the net
-This is why Chris Drury skated over to Avery and told him to stop what he was doing to Broduer

I don't know how much clearer this can be... This is all I have discussed today in this thread... Not any other point or subject matter...

If you're going to argue that Sean Avery cannot be an effective player and a contributing member of this roster without intentionally and deliberately targeting goaltenders with his play, I will argue you don't understand the game well enough.... This has nothing to do with driving to the net, or how Sean Avery acts towards any other player on the ice.... This has nothing to do with trash talking or jamming at rebounds in front of the net in the crease...

Henrik Lundqvist is afforded the same courtesy by the leagues mandate to leave the goaltenders alone as every other goaltender is from Sean Avery's antics so enough with the conspiracy theory talk...

If Avery has to plow into goaltenders and hit them with his stick and slash or cross-check them to be an effective player he should go play in the ECHL where no one will care....

Rangers need him to fore-check and deliver hits, back-check hard, set up plays, and create scoring chances.... All aspects of a forwards game that can create effective play that are void of the B.S. that the league doesn't want to see.. No need for pre-warm-up skirmishes (Darcy Tucker), slapping players in the face with their blade at the face off circle (Clarkson) and slapping goalies in the helmet with their sticks behind the play (Thomas)... Just because you as a Ranger fan are entertained by this crap doesn't mean it has a place in the game and if Avery can't conduct business without doing this crap that the league has clearly sent him a message to stop doing, then as I said above, go find another league... There's written and unwritten rules to the game, and when Avery flagrantly disregards either or, it's not well regarded by his teammates, the coaches, or the league, and does not reflect well on the organization.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 08-12-2010 at 01:15 PM.
wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 01:26 PM
  #236
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why don't you let this soak in for a minute...

The league does not want the goaltenders being targeted by players... This is not the ANTI-SEAN AVERY rule that you want to label it... This is to PROTECT THE GOALTENDERS... It has nothing to do with Sean Avery and everything to do with the goaltenders.... That's why the rules mandate that a player make every effort to avoid colliding with the goaltenders when they can... That' why the league doesn't want players intentionally facing goaltenders and holding their gloves and sticks up in front of their eyes, and that's why the league does not want to see players slapping goaltenders in the back of their heads with their stick when the play is dead, just to piss them off... How about Avery grows up and learns how to conduct himself in a manner that respects the league's mandate and our coaching staff's directives? Tortorella, Schoenfeld, and Sather know damn well it does not reflect well on our organization to continually have the league draw attention to behaviors that they deem unacceptable from our organization and that's why you'll never see Renney, Tortorella, or any other coach defend any of their players when they are doing something that the league has warned against...

Why do you keep portraying this as the "League against Sean Avery" It's a league wide referendum to protect arguably the most important players in the game... It applies to every player on the ice, not just #16 in blue...

Targeting goaltenders pisses teams off... It angers them... If the Referees don't stay on top of it and penalize the player for it, it creates a situation where the teams take matters into their own hands and decide to reciprocate.. If you're going to take runs at our goalie, we'll do the same to yours... It's happened before and it will happen again... Players have even said as much to the media when this has become an issue in playoff series...

-This is why the coaching staff doesn't encourage or support it.
-This is why the officials are inclined to pay extra close attention when players (including Sean Avery) are crashing the net
-This is why Chris Drury skated over to Avery and told him to stop what he was doing to Broduer

I don't know how much clearer this can be... This is all I have discussed today in this thread... Not any other point or subject matter...

If you're going to argue that Sean Avery cannot be an effective player and a contributing member of this roster without intentionally and deliberately targeting goaltenders with his play, I will argue you don't understand the game well enough.... This has nothing to do with driving to the net, or how Sean Avery acts towards any other player on the ice.... This has nothing to do with trash talking or jamming at rebounds in front of the net in the crease...

Henrik Lundqvist is afforded the same courtesy by the leagues mandate to leave the goaltenders alone as every other goaltender is from Sean Avery's antics so enough with the conspiracy theory talk...

If Avery has to plow into goaltenders and hit them with his stick and slash or cross-check them to be an effective player he should go play in the ECHL where no one will care....

Rangers need him to fore-check and deliver hits, back-check hard, set up plays, and create scoring chances.... All aspects of a forwards game that can create effective play that are void of the B.S. that the league doesn't want to see.. No need for pre-warm-up skirmishes (Darcy Tucker), slapping players in the face with their blade at the face off circle (Clarkson) and slapping goalies in the helmet with their sticks behind the play (Thomas)... Just because you as a Ranger fan are entertained by this crap doesn't mean it has a place in the game and if Avery can't conduct business without doing this crap that the league has clearly sent him a message to stop doing, then as I said above, go find another league...
Wolf I know what you're saying. I'm not arguing the league's view on goalie interference or any of that. What you're failing to realize is that you commenting on that has to do with your opinion on Avery, whether you want it to or not.

You have said in this thread that the officials and Torts are not to blame, but Avery is. I've agreed with that but I do believe that the other two play a role in his lackluster play.

The problem is, whether you want to admit it or not, Avery has gotten plenty of BS calls in this very situation.

If the league, as you and I both agree, is going to be extremely tough on an issue like this, then think about how unfair it is for a player whose game involves playing in front of the net to be the victim of biased, BS penalty calls on top of that.

Then add on a coach who tells you one day he wants you to play your game, then the next when you get called for an infraction that's clearly borderline on an innocuous play is telling the media that you can't keep hurting your hockey team, how does that not affect you?

The bottom line of all of this is that you and many others won't even give the slightest bit of credence to the fact that Torts' hypocrisy and terrible, constant calls from officials played a role in his diminished play.

I've admitted that Sean still needs to play better and was not himself last year. But to keep acting like there are no other reasons for it is unfair.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 01:35 PM
  #237
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
I know Tortorella isn't the perfect coach for Avery and I acknowledge the officials hold Avery to probably a higher standard than other players with BETTER REPUTATIONS but Avery has brought that on himself with how he conducts himself and behaves on the ice... Lets rank this in terms of percentages... How much is Avery to blame for his play this past season in your books?

25% 50% 75% How much blame do you attribute to Tororella and the officiating?

How would I rank it?

60% Sean Avery's fault
30% Tortorella's coaching
10% Officiating bias

Clearly, the player bears the brunt of the responsibility for improving his play and making himself a consistent contributor to this organization...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 01:45 PM
  #238
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I know Tortorella isn't the perfect coach for Avery and I acknowledge the officials hold Avery to probably a higher standard than other players with BETTER REPUTATIONS but Avery has brought that on himself with how he conducts himself and behaves on the ice... Lets rank this in terms of percentages... How much is Avery to blame for his play this past season in your books?

25% 50% 75% How much blame do you attribute to Tororella and the officiating?

How would I rank it?

60% Sean Avery's fault
30% Tortorella's coaching
10% Officiating bias

Clearly, the player bears the brunt of the responsibility for improving his play and making himself a consistent contributor to this organization...
I really can't break it down like that. I think it's all cumulative and variables like those influence it.

It is my opinion that Sean realized how much he was getting hosed and toned it down so he didn't take a ton of penalties to hurt the team.

However, that ended up hurting the team anyway because he wasn't the same player as he's capable of being.

I also agree that his reputation causes officials to this to him, but that doe not in any way shape or form justify it.

The fact that people are okay that Sean's reputation and prior actions mean it's okay for officials to call a make-believe penalty on the player is beyond me.

Do I believe that's what officials are doing? Absolutely. But that's what is BS and that's what makes it damn near impossible for him to play his game.

You can't demand him to play his game and be effective without acknowledging the role that his coach and officials have in that. Sean is a player that is held to a different standard, and thus his play needs to be viewed with those variables in mind.

I can't think of a good analogy for Avery and the officials. But it's not fair that because they don't like the guy they absolutely make up calls on him. It's not fair to him, it's not fair to fans of the game, and most importantly it's not fair to the rest of the Rangers players who end up suffering because of it.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 03:52 PM
  #239
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
If Avery doesnít play his game his loses his job, itís that simple. If Avery letís it go he can impact his team greatly, as we have seen in the past. It may cost us a goal or game here and there, but thatís the way it goes.
Management knew that when they got him and Torts needs to accept this and keep no record of wrongs when it comes to Sean. Deal issues as they come and forget about it. Keep him in check but let him loose.

NikC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 03:59 PM
  #240
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Amish Paradise
Country: United States
Posts: 13,856
vCash: 500
You know, everyone talks about Avery's on ice antics, but he's never really done anything truly awful on the ice. Far more players have done far worse over the years. McSorley, Bertuzzi, heck how many players have seriously injured someone by "accidently" not controlling their stick?

For that matter, how many guys have driven drunk? Several have killed people, etc.

When you really think about, for his antics (though silly) and comments (inapproriate), is Avery really worth getting as worked up about some people do?

Torts, for all of his problems with Avery, is the one who got himself suspended from a playoff game by losing his own temper.

So in the end, is it really that bad? Or has the thought just been pounded into people's heads for so long that it's a natural reaction?

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 04:27 PM
  #241
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You know, everyone talks about Avery's on ice antics, but he's never really done anything truly awful on the ice. Far more players have done far worse over the years. McSorley, Bertuzzi, heck how many players have seriously injured someone by "accidently" not controlling their stick?

For that matter, how many guys have driven drunk? Several have killed people, etc.

When you really think about, for his antics (though silly) and comments (inapproriate), is Avery really worth getting as worked up about some people do?

Torts, for all of his problems with Avery, is the one who got himself suspended from a playoff game by losing his own temper.

So in the end, is it really that bad? Or has the thought just been pounded into people's heads for so long that it's a natural reaction?
Which is a good point. There is this idea out there that Sean is a dirty player but I've never seen him at least as a Ranger go out of his way to try to really hurt another player. He has shown some control and the idea of discrediting the game coming into this is a matter of personal perception. Avery's been mouthy and that's been about the size of it. He takes the body hard--plays a hard nasty game. He goads other players constantly. In the eyes of the league office his abrasive character is persona non grata but he has been operating more than less within normal societal limits as in he hasn't been committing any crimes. You might not want your daughter to date him but whatever. The league at the same time has its own poster boys and some of them you maybe wouldn't want dating your daughter either but the league has been polishing them up so maybe it's just perceptions that are skewed by a lot of marketing.

The reason for having Avery on your team at the end of the day is that he helps the team win games. His record on that at least until Torts came along was exemplary. There's no real disputing that.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 04:28 PM
  #242
redfzn
#94
 
redfzn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You know, everyone talks about Avery's on ice antics, but he's never really done anything truly awful on the ice. Far more players have done far worse over the years. McSorley, Bertuzzi, heck how many players have seriously injured someone by "accidently" not controlling their stick?

For that matter, how many guys have driven drunk? Several have killed people, etc.

When you really think about, for his antics (though silly) and comments (inapproriate), is Avery really worth getting as worked up about some people do?

Torts, for all of his problems with Avery, is the one who got himself suspended from a playoff game by losing his own temper.

So in the end, is it really that bad? Or has the thought just been pounded into people's heads for so long that it's a natural reaction?
This.

redfzn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:09 PM
  #243
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You know, everyone talks about Avery's on ice antics, but he's never really done anything truly awful on the ice. Far more players have done far worse over the years. McSorley, Bertuzzi, heck how many players have seriously injured someone by "accidently" not controlling their stick?

For that matter, how many guys have driven drunk? Several have killed people, etc.

When you really think about, for his antics (though silly) and comments (inapproriate), is Avery really worth getting as worked up about some people do?

Torts, for all of his problems with Avery, is the one who got himself suspended from a playoff game by losing his own temper.

So in the end, is it really that bad? Or has the thought just been pounded into people's heads for so long that it's a natural reaction?
He hasn't done anything bad on the ice to warrant the "dirty player" label that's for sure... But... He has to show some respect for the league and what the league officials (not talking refs here) are dictating.. If they are sending the message that particular behavior on the ice isn't going to fly, and they are instructing the refs to target it and scrutinize it, he has to yield to that warning or risk hurting the team with penalties or getting himself suspended... That includes causing pre-game skirmishes during warm-ups, and finding creative ways to make contact with goaltenders... Whether or not the behavior in and of itself is "dirty" or "that bad" in his mind or the fans minds doesn't really matter... If the league says to cut it out, right or wrong, the players have to adhere or suffer the consequences... They are in no position to dictate otherwise...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:19 PM
  #244
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post

Hank got run over more than a piece of road kill last year, and that had nothing to do with Avery. It had to do with our weak defenseman. Between Rozi, Redden, Staal, and Girardi, those are 4 guys who will barely put their gloves on you when you crash Hank. When Del Zotto's the toughest guy on your blue line you've got issues.

You're the one with the blinders on. Another ridiculous attempt to blame Sean for something that has nothing to do with him. Just looking for reasons to criticize him.

this is why i wanted Mara back last year on defense. someone who will stick up for their goalie on defense.

granted not a great fight but at least he is willing

Punxrocknyc19* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:24 PM
  #245
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
this is why i wanted Mara back last year on defense. someone who will stick up for their goalie on defense.

granted not a great fight but at least he is willing
You just miss the orange beard!

That being said, Mara was a stand up guy and a terrific teammate... If I had to rank some of the best Ranger teammates over the last several years, I would go say:

Mara / Strudwick / Weekes / Valiquette

All terrific teammates and were well liked in the locker-room by all indications...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:26 PM
  #246
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,584
vCash: 500
The problem is not when Avery is playing the way he's capable--then he's effective. It's when he's being a jerk, both on and off the ice that gets him into trouble. At this point in his career, he has to keep his mouth shut and go out there and play the hardnosed game he's shown he's capable of, night in and night out. He has to realize his reputation is not going to change and he has to accept that.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:28 PM
  #247
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You just miss the orange beard!

That being said, Mara was a stand up guy and a terrific teammate... If I had to rank some of the best Ranger teammates over the last several years, I would go say:

Mara / Strudwick / Weekes / Valiquette

All terrific teammates and were well liked in the locker-room by all indications...

well Shane Hnidy is an ufa. same type as Strudwick. maybe Boogaard can talk to him to come to the Rangers. a depth physical dman is always useful.

Punxrocknyc19* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:32 PM
  #248
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
well Shane Hnidy is an ufa. same type as Strudwick. maybe Boogaard can talk to him to come to the Rangers. a depth physical dman is always useful.
One thing I always liked about Mara was that he was born in Bergen County, NJ (20 minutes outside NYC), although he didn't live there for very long and moved to New England area I think...

There was a Cancer benefit at a local hospital in Bergen County run by my friend's now ex-girlfriend... She contacted the Rangers to see if they wanted to donate any merchandise and they sent a Paul Mara autographed puck (kinda cheap, no?)... Anyhow, no one bid anything on it so my roommate who attended the benefit just bought the puck and brought it home and gave it to me... So I have a Paul Mara autographed puck at home on my desk, lol...

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:37 PM
  #249
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
He hasn't done anything bad on the ice to warrant the "dirty player" label that's for sure... But... He has to show some respect for the league and what the league officials (not talking refs here) are dictating.. If they are sending the message that particular behavior on the ice isn't going to fly, and they are instructing the refs to target it and scrutinize it, he has to yield to that warning or risk hurting the team with penalties or getting himself suspended... That includes causing pre-game skirmishes during warm-ups, and finding creative ways to make contact with goaltenders... Whether or not the behavior in and of itself is "dirty" or "that bad" in his mind or the fans minds doesn't really matter... If the league says to cut it out, right or wrong, the players have to adhere or suffer the consequences... They are in no position to dictate otherwise...
But the thing is that once the league came down hard on him about the pre-game stuff he cut it out.

The goalie interference thing isn't a good example because a penalty is a penalty. And that's the point. If he commits a penalty then call him for it, but if he doesn't he shouldn't be getting the gate just because he's Sean Avery.

The league can sit there and say they assess the referees performances and stuff but we all know that no official is getting criticized for a phantom call on Avery. The league should be embarrassed by some of the calls on him last year that didn't exist. The guy takes his fair share of actual penalties so there's no need to make them up.

You're singling out Avery on something that's a legitimate rule for everyone. It's not an Avery rule. It's goalie interference. If he does it then fine, call him for it. But when he's getting mauled by opponents and tossed around and the call should be on them for interference or roughing, and he ends up with a call, it's BS. And there's nothing he can do about that stuff. He got hosed last year. Big time.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2010, 05:45 PM
  #250
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
this is why i wanted Mara back last year on defense. someone who will stick up for their goalie on defense.

granted not a great fight but at least he is willing

It's unfortunate too. I'm someone who defends all those guys. Obviously Staal is a stud, but he's got such a nice guy personality. It's horrible watching him at times around the net after the whistle. He just won't touch anyone.

Rosi I defend to the death on these boards but we all know the guy isn't laying a hand on you.

Girardi is another guy I support and in the past he's shown he can throw them if he has to, but we all know he's not a fighter and is not a guy looking to mix it up after the play.

Redden...haaaaaaa...Need someone post the youtube against Montreal?

Del Zotto plays physical but we've yet to see him have to drop the gloves and I really wouldn't want to.

It's a rought situation for your goalie when your entire D-corps has no snarl. I think that's a huge reason we selected McIlrath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
The problem is not when Avery is playing the way he's capable--then he's effective. It's when he's being a jerk, both on and off the ice that gets him into trouble. At this point in his career, he has to keep his mouth shut and go out there and play the hardnosed game he's shown he's capable of, night in and night out. He has to realize his reputation is not going to change and he has to accept that.

He IS a jerk on the ice. That's not a crime though, plenty of players are. And as long as you play within the rules there's nothing illegal about being a jerk.

I don't recall him getting into trouble off the ice...especially last year, so maybe you need to refresh my memory.

The sloppy seconds comment was the most overblown thing I've ever seen.

His comments back in LA about French-Canadians and visors might've offended some, but they're arguably true.

Whether or not they offend or bother you is irrelevant to anything. It should have no bearing on officials or the league screwing him.

He was also spot on about his criticizm of Bettman and how he markets the league.


I agree with your last point about his reputation, and I think he did try and do that and it's why he was so ineffective this year.

He said it on that Knicks Night show and I believe him, he's going to be back. I'm sure he realized he can't not be Sean Avery and be effective.

He will hurt us some nights, but if he's on his game, he will be an extreme asset.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.