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What are the lines going to be next year?

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Old
08-12-2010, 04:05 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
So does Kuato, but what does this have to do with Carcillo?
Carcillo is not flashy and not going to be counted on to score too much but is still going to be getting top 9 minutes just due to the numbers and slots available. So it has to do where he best fits. IMO Richards having a guy who likes to bang supports Richards best style of play, which is hitting. Richards is also targeted by other teams ruotinely, giving Richards a guy willing to watch his back is just a bonus. You put Richards and JvR together and count on them to create some offense and Carcillo just picks up some junk. With three balanced scoring lines it is going to be not as necessary to put out 100pt players. Richards needs to take on a role and it may be with Carcillo supplying the extra body to create space of Richards and JvR to pot some goals, also counting on the defense to chip in a couple more this year as well.

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08-12-2010, 04:30 PM
  #202
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just posted this in the other thread, what do you guys think of...

Hartnell-Carter-Zherdev
JVR-Richards-Giroux
Carcillo-Briere-Leino
Powe-Betts-Lapperiere
Shelley

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Old
08-12-2010, 04:33 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
just posted this in the other thread, what do you guys think of...

Hartnell-Carter-Zherdev
JVR-Richards-Giroux
Carcillo-Briere-Leino
Powe-Betts-Lapperiere
Shelley
I can't possibly see Hartnell-Briere-Leino being broken up until they stink it up.

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08-12-2010, 04:51 PM
  #204
Larry44
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I see. So saddling one of the guys who you're depending on to put the puck in the net with a 3rd line grinder/rat/agitator with a repuation for diving and attracting penalties makes sense? And then when he does go to the box, one of your best PK'ers is in the middle/end of a shift so he's not close to ready to go.

I know Carcillo played on the top line quite a bit last year, particularly when Gagne was injured. It doesn't mean he's first line material. Not by a long stretch. And even with all that top line time, playing with much better players, he had 12 whole goals, and 10 assists. Even Aaron Asham had better stats.
Laviolette certainly liked Carcillo with Richards and Gagne - and they both came out of the doldrums with him on the wing. Carcillo has good hands and, most importantly, he skates well enough to play with top players.

I can see Danny C on the wing with Richards and Zherdev. Richards can set Zherdev up and Carcillo can forecheck, create havoc and protect his mates.

Richards doesn't need to have anyone fight his battles for him, but it will save his knuckles a bit - we don't need Mike getting hurt fighting guys if Carcillo can do it for him.

Your comments about bad penalties are simply a figment of your imagination. To his credit, and Lappy's, Carcillo showed real discipline this year - he didn't take many bad penalties and he draws a lot too - so we get PPs out of it. I'm also very sure he'll have been advised to lose the head snap.

I'm quite sure that if Carcillo had played in the 3rd line for the entire season, like Asham did, his stats would be much better.

I know you hate him, but the coach and the captain don't. Luckily for him, their votes count.

Carcillo-Richards-Zherdev
JVR-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Shelley-Powe (Betts) -Lappy

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Old
08-12-2010, 05:03 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Carcillo is not flashy and not going to be counted on to score too much but is still going to be getting top 9 minutes just due to the numbers and slots available. So it has to do where he best fits. IMO Richards having a guy who likes to bang supports Richards best style of play, which is hitting. Richards is also targeted by other teams ruotinely, giving Richards a guy willing to watch his back is just a bonus. You put Richards and JvR together and count on them to create some offense and Carcillo just picks up some junk. With three balanced scoring lines it is going to be not as necessary to put out 100pt players. Richards needs to take on a role and it may be with Carcillo supplying the extra body to create space of Richards and JvR to pot some goals, also counting on the defense to chip in a couple more this year as well.
Top 9 is fine. Top 6, not so much. Richards is our top center, Carcillo has no business playing with him. Especially if you ever want Richards to see 70 points again.

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Old
08-12-2010, 06:46 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Top 9 is fine. Top 6, not so much. Richards is our top center, Carcillo has no business playing with him. Especially if you ever want Richards to see 70 points again.
I assume you are moving Carter to wing if you don't want Carcillo playing Top 6. Maybe:

Carter-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JvR-Giroux-Carcillo
Powe-Betts-Laperierre

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Old
08-12-2010, 07:03 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I see. So saddling one of the guys who you're depending on to put the puck in the net with a 3rd line grinder/rat/agitator with a repuation for diving and attracting penalties makes sense? And then when he does go to the box, one of your best PK'ers is in the middle/end of a shift so he's not close to ready to go.

I know Carcillo played on the top line quite a bit last year, particularly when Gagne was injured. It doesn't mean he's first line material. Not by a long stretch. And even with all that top line time, playing with much better players, he had 12 whole goals, and 10 assists. Even Aaron Asham had better stats.
AMEN! Carcillo might be a good 3rd line role player on a team with a traditional checking 3rd line. But that's not what we have. So basically he doesn't fit on this team. He will be the weakest link on whatever line he plays on.

I get so PO'd when Homer keeps drafting/signing/trading for these marginally talented but "gritty" players. That's pretty much our whole farm system.

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08-12-2010, 07:06 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Laviolette certainly liked Carcillo with Richards and Gagne - and they both came out of the doldrums with him on the wing. Carcillo has good hands and, most importantly, he skates well enough to play with top players.
Hmm...then why'd he bench him for most of the finals?

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08-12-2010, 07:23 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I'm quite sure that if Carcillo had played in the 3rd line for the entire season, like Asham did, his stats would be much better.
If Carcillo had less ice time, he would have produced more? How do you figure that?

I know you love the guy, and that's fine. I don't hate him. I hate the ******** that comes with him, and I detest the diving. I just don't want him anywhere near the top 6. He's simply not good enough to be there, and has done nothing to earn a spot in the top 6.

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08-12-2010, 08:13 PM
  #210
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by TheGreat28 View Post
Hmm...then why'd he bench him for most of the finals?
Maybe it had something to do with the knee injury and sports hernia he had.

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08-12-2010, 08:36 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I can't possibly see Hartnell-Briere-Leino being broken up until they stink it up.
I do not think Briere is capable playing center for 82 regular season games. Thats why I think this line will be taken apart at some point during the season.
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
If Carcillo had less ice time, he would have produced more? How do you figure that?

I know you love the guy, and that's fine. I don't hate him. I hate the ******** that comes with him, and I detest the diving. I just don't want him anywhere near the top 6. He's simply not good enough to be there, and has done nothing to earn a spot in the top 6.
He should not be near top 6 on regular basis but once in a while he deserve to be there. He proved that he can help and be useful. So if Hartnell decides to not show up I would give Carcillo a chance. I mean why not? Thats just good coaching. When you work hard and give 100% as well as results you get ice time.


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08-12-2010, 11:55 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by TheGreat28 View Post
Hmm...then why'd he bench him for most of the finals?
Do you follow hockey? Carcillo hurt his knee in the Boston series, then had surgery for a sports hernia after the season. He was hurt or he would have been playing.

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08-13-2010, 04:23 AM
  #213
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Zherdev - Carter - Giroux
JvR - Richards - Carcillo
Hartnell - Briere - Lieno
Laperierre - Betts - Powe
Shelley

Makes the most sense to me.

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08-13-2010, 08:38 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not think Briere is capable playing center for 82 regular season games. Thats why I think this line will be taken apart at some point during the season.
Oh, I certainly agree there. Hell, every line is broken up at some point. I just don't get why people are breaking it up before training camp even happens. Once they struggle, it will be broken up, but not until then.

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08-13-2010, 09:37 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Laviolette certainly liked Carcillo with Richards and Gagne - and they both came out of the doldrums with him on the wing. Carcillo has good hands and, most importantly, he skates well enough to play with top players.

I can see Danny C on the wing with Richards and Zherdev. Richards can set Zherdev up and Carcillo can forecheck, create havoc and protect his mates.

Richards doesn't need to have anyone fight his battles for him, but it will save his knuckles a bit - we don't need Mike getting hurt fighting guys if Carcillo can do it for him.

Your comments about bad penalties are simply a figment of your imagination. To his credit, and Lappy's, Carcillo showed real discipline this year - he didn't take many bad penalties and he draws a lot too - so we get PPs out of it. I'm also very sure he'll have been advised to lose the head snap.

I'm quite sure that if Carcillo had played in the 3rd line for the entire season, like Asham did, his stats would be much better.

I know you hate him, but the coach and the captain don't. Luckily for him, their votes count.

Carcillo-Richards-Zherdev
JVR-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Shelley-Powe (Betts) -Lappy

Good points all the way around, and as much as I hate it I think you are probably correct in the lines you have established.

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Old
08-13-2010, 09:40 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Kuato View Post
Top 9 is fine. Top 6, not so much. Richards is our top center, Carcillo has no business playing with him. Especially if you ever want Richards to see 70 points again.
If the other lines contribute I do not care if Richards gets 70pts again. The captain does whatever it takes for the success of the team. It is what made Joe Sakic such a great leader, he did whatever it took to win, even giving up the #1 status as scorer to Forsberg, but when it came time to win in the playoffs he was there, fron and center.

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08-13-2010, 09:47 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Laviolette certainly liked Carcillo with Richards and Gagne - and they both came out of the doldrums with him on the wing. Carcillo has good hands and, most importantly, he skates well enough to play with top players.

I can see Danny C on the wing with Richards and Zherdev. Richards can set Zherdev up and Carcillo can forecheck, create havoc and protect his mates.

Richards doesn't need to have anyone fight his battles for him, but it will save his knuckles a bit - we don't need Mike getting hurt fighting guys if Carcillo can do it for him.

Your comments about bad penalties are simply a figment of your imagination. To his credit, and Lappy's, Carcillo showed real discipline this year - he didn't take many bad penalties and he draws a lot too - so we get PPs out of it. I'm also very sure he'll have been advised to lose the head snap.

I'm quite sure that if Carcillo had played in the 3rd line for the entire season, like Asham did, his stats would be much better.

I know you hate him, but the coach and the captain don't. Luckily for him, their votes count.

Carcillo-Richards-Zherdev
JVR-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Shelley-Powe (Betts) -Lappy
wow... Poor Mike Richards. If you are putting Carcillo with Richards, Zherdev better not be on the same line. Or add Pronger with Timonen behind those forwards. Zherdev probably won't back check and Carcillo does now know how.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Oh, I certainly agree there. Hell, every line is broken up at some point. I just don't get why people are breaking it up before training camp even happens. Once they struggle, it will be broken up, but not until then.
Well, Carter is 100% healthy. Unlike in playoffs.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 08-13-2010 at 10:00 AM.
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08-13-2010, 10:02 AM
  #218
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Fans seem to obsess over which line a player is on when in is really about minutes. Carcillo may have been on the "1rst line" with Gags and Richards, but certainly did not play first line minutes.

I think PP TOI is a better question being that you have 7 forwards and 6 spots (unless Richards plays the point) and who the odd man out will be, Giroux, Leino or Zherdev?

I would not have a problem with:

Leino-Briere-Hartnell

Carter-Giroux-Richards

...but Zherdev's reputation might mean no pp time might lead to him sulking and not playing 100%.

or:

Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Richards-Pronger

Carter-Giroux-Zherdev
Meszaros-Carle/Timonen

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Old
08-13-2010, 10:28 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Well, Carter is 100% healthy. Unlike in playoffs.
Does it really matter in regards to Carters health, even when healthy he has failed to show up as needed. And regular season is not different, when he wants to score he scores a ppg, when he doesn't he is invisible for a guy with his talent. Stop making excuses.

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08-13-2010, 10:34 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Does it really matter in regards to Carters health, even when healthy he has failed to show up as needed. And regular season is not different, when he wants to score he scores a ppg, when he doesn't he is invisible for a guy with his talent. Stop making excuses.
I'm really starting to think that your name is some misguided attempt at irony, rather than an actual reflection of your apparent love for Carter.

Carter is not invisible. Only 1/3rd of his goals last year were power play goals. And before his injury, he was on pace for another 40 goal year. His defense isn't stellar, but definitely acceptable. He doesn't float.

Quit trying to make a problem where there isn't one.

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08-13-2010, 10:52 AM
  #221
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I don't think Carter would allow a move to the wing. Wasn't he quoted in a paper as saying "that's not gonna happen" when asked about a possible move to the wing. if Carter is supposedly a 7 million dollar man (absolutely rediculous), he should be the top dog and get the right team mates to enhance his skill set. not sure what that means for Giroux and JVR tho. It almost seems that they are one piece short of potential domination. Richards is the heart of the flyers but so was primeau....on the checking line. Move richie to the 3rd with whoever is most defensively reliable to take on Sid, ovy ect (like he did for Canada at the olympics), keep briere on the 2nd with his running partners (Fartsmell, and Leino) and let betts center lappy and whoever

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08-13-2010, 10:58 AM
  #222
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OOOPPS, Zherdev - Giroux - JVR that should be our new 2nd line pairing. Guess that means carter just doesn't fit anymore. Time to get the best package possible for him.
seriously, most lines come together it just seems that carter doesn't fit with anyone short of Hartnell.

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08-13-2010, 11:14 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
OOOPPS, Zherdev - Giroux - JVR that should be our new 2nd line pairing. Guess that means carter just doesn't fit anymore. Time to get the best package possible for him.
seriously, most lines come together it just seems that carter doesn't fit with anyone short of Hartnell.
Hartnell, Carcillo and JVR (if he puts on muscle) would make good linemates for Carter. He needs crash and bangers to dig pucks off the wall, pass to him and then drive the net and hope Carter doesn't ring a shot around the boards and out of the zone for a 4v2 rush the other way.

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08-13-2010, 11:32 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Stockholm Syndrome View Post
I'm really starting to think that your name is some misguided attempt at irony, rather than an actual reflection of your apparent love for Carter.

Carter is not invisible. Only 1/3rd of his goals last year were power play goals. And before his injury, he was on pace for another 40 goal year. His defense isn't stellar, but definitely acceptable. He doesn't float.

Quit trying to make a problem where there isn't one.
Come on, the guy has shown to be a streaky player. I do not care about the PP goals, I care about a more consistent effort on a night-in, night-out basis.

And yes, my handle is a sarcastic remark for all the excuse-love Carter gets. Because he scored 46 goals one year does not mean this player is necessarily a winner, it just means he has the talent, now is he willing to work on other parts of his game to help improve the team? Like maybe learn how to play wing? Does not sound like it. My bet is he does nto score 40 again in his career in the EC, maybe if he goes to the WC but not in the east.

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08-13-2010, 11:56 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Hartnell, Carcillo and JVR (if he puts on muscle) would make good linemates for Carter. He needs crash and bangers to dig pucks off the wall, pass to him and then drive the net and hope Carter doesn't ring a shot around the boards and out of the zone for a 4v2 rush the other way.
OK, had to stop you here......this is precisely why Carter does not fit. He does not make the players around him better. Just look at where people are having a hard time putting together lines, it all revolves around the inability to move a guy like Carter to the wing. Having a natural winger like, say, Gagne would resolve this issue all together.....Gagne/Giroux/Zherdev, Hartnell/Briere/Leino, JvR/Richards/Carcillo or Powe.

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