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Tortorella's successes so far

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Old
08-13-2010, 11:55 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by pdogfizzle View Post
I'm not positive but i thought i remember seeing quotes from Torts last year saying it's gonna take YEARS to rebuild and become contenders. With the roster he had, I think he did ok and should bounce back to the playoffs this year. IMO they got better this year which isn't the popular thing to say around here it seems. It's a process. Anyone who thought he would take the Rangers to "another level" last year didn't know Tort's plan.
Torts' plan seems to be whatever suits towards at the time.

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08-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #52
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He has had zero success so far. Only failure. Hopefully that will change.
Some people took exception to this post. I should clarify. I was referring to hockey success. Also, I was using the standard dictionary definition of "success". I'm unfamiliar with it's obscure or slang meanings that some others are using in the thread.

Main Entry: suc·cess
Pronunciation: \sək-ˈses\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin successus, from succedere
Date: 1537

1 a : degree or measure of succeeding b : favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence
2 : one that succeeds

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08-13-2010, 12:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The year Renney was let go he didn't have a better roster. He had lost 4 of his top scorers (Jagr, Shanny, Avery, Straka).

This years roster was better than the one Renney had.
Agreed.


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robruckos said:"Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeR
Last time I checked, this was and still is a team sport. If you cannot throw on the ice a complete team that has a balance of 1st and 2nd and 3rd liners - with a decent goaltender you are not going to field a successful team. I can't see 14 new faces in a lineup from beginning to end of year roster promoting either chemistry, learning systems and coaching styles, as well as any transition periods of adjustment that the player must make mentally. To me a team that is full of 3rd liners and a goalie and scorer is still going to have a rough time competing.

Again, LOL. Check out Renney's teams and get back to me. When he reaches Renney's level of success here maybe, MAYBE you can think about making that comment.

Thats funny : especially when you consider that Renney had two HOF in the lineup with Jagr and Shannahan, couple that with Nylander and Straka and that creates a decent offensive team. I guess you figure that players like EC and Prospal and two players in their 3rd year of existence in Dubi and Callahan are comparable in skill set and experience to compare both teams. I guess that is where I have a problem with your knowledge and how you compare teams, their skill sets, and those expectations with you try to compare coaching abilities. I remember Renney being able to take a skilled team and make it to a 2nd round once. I remember Renney also taking a team and having its players quit on him. I have no problem with Renney and I have no problem with the mess that Torts had to deal with in establishing a team with 14 new faces last year, two rookies and no backup goaltending, couple that with R&R. And you are trying to sell that team as a PO team?

Read my above post where I talked about the different years. I acknowledged the stuff you mentioned.

Dubi/Cally/Prospal/Higgins are all guys who produced (Higgins in his years in Montreal and what so many expected when he came here) are arguably much more formidable than most of the supporting cast in Renney's tenure.

Were Renney's teams top-heavy? Absolutely.

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08-13-2010, 12:46 PM
  #54
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Does it mean NYR fans like Trots better than Tom?

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08-13-2010, 01:04 PM
  #55
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torts has done nothing since hes been here. instead of leading this team and getting them to the next level, he constantly plays the blame game and creates tension.

he thrives on chaos. his pressers are mostly uncomfortable and hostile. he coaches via coercion and intimidation. hes a classic hypocrite who is incapable of looking at himself when things go bad. the benching of avery and subsequent water bottle episode was a blackeye that he will never live down. hes an average in game tactician who tends to overplay his top guys to the point where they become less effective. so far, his teams are easily defended and shut down.

overall, i give him a 3 outa 10. and thats being liberal.




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08-13-2010, 01:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Does it mean NYR fans like Trots better than Tom?
Do we like Bryan Trottier better than we like Tom Webster? I suppose we do. Good point.

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08-13-2010, 01:22 PM
  #57
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What's funny is that in this thread it's been mentioned twice about the water bottle incident and I have to say that I had totally forgotten about it.

Kind of like it never happened cause it such a NON ISSUE.

I'm actually glad he did it. I'm so sick and tired of the vanilla team that this has become that showing that fire, even if the team doesn't have the ability to follow suit, to me was refreshing.

Has he left alot to be desired, yes. Was I expecting a little more offence from this team, yes, but not a great deal. I mean we still had no No. 1 center and no secondary scoring after Gabby so the lack of scoring wasn't surprising.

I expected a little bit more than what we got, but I had no illusions of being anything more than playoff fodder if we were lucky enough to have made it in and that was my opinion dating back to last December.

The team lacked the proper personal to make anything happen and one of the players that we expect at least some offence from (Drury) was MIA for the majority of the year.

Not sure what people were expecting from him.

I don't think that some posters put enough stock into the fact that the money we have tied up in very marginal players is never going to fully allow us to be better and that's regardless of who the coach it.

I don't care who it is you choose, name ANY coach in the league and insert him as our coach last year and the results are exactly the same.

Last year had alot more to do with personell than the man guiding them.

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08-13-2010, 01:24 PM
  #58
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Though he's kind of controversial I like his style. I bet none opened their mouth after the flying start we got last season though. Critics come in bad times, and despite a sad ending to last year and compared to the roster we had. It was NOT that bad imo. Henke can't win them all and Gabby can't pull the pointwagon alone...

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08-13-2010, 01:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
Do we like Bryan Trottier better than we like Tom Webster? I suppose we do. Good point.
Was that sense of humor?

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08-13-2010, 01:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
torts has done nothing since hes been here. instead of leading this team and getting them to the next level, he constantly plays the blame game and creates tension.

he thrives on chaos. his pressers are mostly uncomfortable and hostile. he coaches via coercion and intimidation. hes a classic hypocrite who is incapable of looking at himself when things go bad. the benching of avery and subsequent water bottle episode was a blackeye that he will never live down. hes an average in game tactician who tends to overplay his top guys to the point where they become less effective. so far, his teams are easily defended and shut down.

overall, i give him a 3 outa 10. and thats being liberal.



He's a human if thats what you're talking about. He has flaws and makes mistakes. I like having a coach who is passionate enough about his team to go on a water bottle throwing freakout at obnoxious fans to defend his frustrated players. I was frustrated at that point in the series and I'm just a fan, I can't imagine being on the bench and listening to some caps fans say derogatory and outright offensive things to myself or my players or my teammates. I'm glad he freaked out. I would have freaked out too and I thought it was awesome and highly entertaining at the time. I thought hockey was about passion and entertainment among other things. I don't know when everyone here started being to morality police about anybody's actions during a game. It's' cool when Orr practically kills someone on the ice but its despicable when a coach freaks out on offensive fans? He missed the next game, yes. We lost the series, yes. Were we going to beat the caps? Never. Hank bailed the whole team out infinite times that series and it just wasn't going to happen anymore. We were the worse team and we lost. Get over it, that was 2 seasons ago.

Let me assume you're first retort would be that benched Avery for losing his cool and then lost his cool. On that note, yeah he did. He ****** up. I **** up too, a lot sometimes. So do you. So does everyone. I know that when I do something dumb I hope that those around me who are affected by it have enough strength in their personality to see it for what it is (often something hilarious or ironic to those who observe) and then forgive, see their own tendencies to do the same and move on. Avery doesn't seem to be too hung up on it, I don't know why you are.

More generally, Torts is not a bad coach. This lineup is full of holes, last year they had no backup goalie that was ready to play in this league, no first line center and if MDZ didn't jump right in and kill it they would have been seriously lacking a PP QB also. Given all that they lost to the Flyers who then went on a miraculous winning streak. I'm okay with that. I'd rather they won the cup, but that wasn't a reasonable outcome to expect. Torts got about as much out of his guys as was reasonable last year. The young guys are all still here, they're all better than they were the year before and not one of them has said a negative thing about Torts, despite the multitude of posters who want to try and speak for them asserting the opposite.

He's brought the youth movement along nicely. He's set up a system where you can be expected to be rewarded or punished as a player based on your effort, heart and hustle. He's made the most of a waiver player that nobody had given a real chance by showing faith in his abilities and giving him big minutes. He gave Prust extra minutes when his old coach wouldn't because Prust deserved them. He sat Sather's shiny new toy Kotalik when he was stinking it up. He sat Avery when he wasn't being effective. He sat Redden when he was having his worst game and he didn't waffle when Redden took offense to it. He's done a lot of good here if anybody would care to take off their hater blinders and actually pay attention to whats happening on the team instead of becoming obsessed with the baseless narratives of their choice.

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08-13-2010, 01:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
What's funny is that in this thread it's been mentioned twice about the water bottle incident and I have to say that I had totally forgotten about it.

Kind of like it never happened cause it such a NON ISSUE.

I'm actually glad he did it. I'm so sick and tired of the vanilla team that this has become that showing that fire, even if the team doesn't have the ability to follow suit, to me was refreshing.

Has he left alot to be desired, yes. Was I expecting a little more offence from this team, yes, but not a great deal. I mean we still had no No. 1 center and no secondary scoring after Gabby so the lack of scoring wasn't surprising.

I expected a little bit more than what we got, but I had no illusions of being anything more than playoff fodder if we were lucky enough to have made it in and that was my opinion dating back to last December.

The team lacked the proper personal to make anything happen and one of the players that we expect at least some offence from (Drury) was MIA for the majority of the year.

Not sure what people were expecting from him.

I don't think that some posters put enough stock into the fact that the money we have tied up in very marginal players is never going to fully allow us to be better and that's regardless of who the coach it.

I don't care who it is you choose, name ANY coach in the league and insert him as our coach last year and the results are exactly the same.

Last year had alot more to do with personell than the man guiding them.
I agree with the last part of your post. I dont expect much out of Tortorella and I didnt expect much out of Renney with the rosters of the last couple of seasons. The issue is, for whatever reason, a lot of people failed to analyze that the 2008-2009 team was vastly different (and less talented) than prior incarnations...so to say that the squad was even ready to go to the next level (and Renney was the one holding them back) is quite a ridiculous viewpoint.

But whats even more ridiculous is calling Torts' suspension during the 2009 playoffs a "non-issue." Up 3-1 in a series and your coach gets suspended for a potential clincher at home in the waining minutes of a game 5 loss? For attacking a fan with a waterbottle no less?!

I couldnt disagree more. Not only is it an issue, its a BIG issue when the coach's shtick is accountability. Its the absolute height of hypocrisy.

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08-13-2010, 01:36 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Does it mean NYR fans like Trots better than Tom?
I'd say it's pretty split. And then you've got people who don't like either, or liked both.

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Originally Posted by Xtranova View Post
Though he's kind of controversial I like his style. I bet none opened their mouth after the flying start we got last season though. Critics come in bad times, and despite a sad ending to last year and compared to the roster we had. It was NOT that bad imo. Henke can't win them all and Gabby can't pull the pointwagon alone...
I see you've only been a member sine this April, but if you were around when Renney was fired and Torts took over I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that.

There were plenty of people who thought Renney got a raw deal and I'm one of them. I don't give Torts any credit for getting that team to the playoffs. There was nothing on Renney's resume that said he wouldn't have done the same thing considering the runs his teams went on to end the season.

Criticism comes when your team is not that good, and you turn yourself into a lightning rod for controversy as a coach. Not to mention when you fail to reach the level of the guy you replaced.

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08-13-2010, 01:43 PM
  #63
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Was that sense of humor?
In all it's glory!

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08-13-2010, 01:44 PM
  #64
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His successes:

He turned Wade Redden's career around (for two and a half games)

He managed to squeeze more offense out of the roster than Renney could (all he needed was three players who were in on 1 of every 2 goals scored under him)

He was able to set a clear standard on discipline by benching Avery in an important game (and quickly blurred it by acting like a child that very game)

He was able to miss the playoffs with a more skilled (granted still very flawed) roster

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08-13-2010, 01:49 PM
  #65
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I agree with the last part of your post. I dont expect much out of Tortorella and I didnt expect much out of Renney with the rosters of the last couple of seasons. The issue is, for whatever reason, a lot of people failed to analyze that the 2008-2009 team was vastly different (and less talented) than prior incarnations...so to say that the squad was even ready to go to the next level (and Renney was the one holding them back) is quite a ridiculous viewpoint.

But whats even more ridiculous is calling Torts' suspension during the 2009 playoffs a "non-issue." Up 3-1 in a series and your coach gets suspended for a potential clincher at home in the waining minutes of a game 5 loss? For attacking a fan with a waterbottle no less?!

I couldnt disagree more. Not only is it an issue, its a BIG issue when the coach's shtick is accountability. Its the absolute height of hypocrisy.
We weren't going to beat the caps or go on to win the cup. They were better than us in every single way that series and so was every team waiting for us after them.

Have you ever been a hypocrite in your life? I have. Would you be comfortable with carrying that label forever and ever based on one incident? I wouldn't.

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08-13-2010, 01:52 PM
  #66
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He's a human if thats what you're talking about. He has flaws and makes mistakes. I like having a coach who is passionate enough about his team to go on a water bottle throwing freakout at obnoxious fans to defend his frustrated players. I was frustrated at that point in the series and I'm just a fan, I can't imagine being on the bench and listening to some caps fans say derogatory and outright offensive things to myself or my players or my teammates. I'm glad he freaked out. I would have freaked out too and I thought it was awesome and highly entertaining at the time. I thought hockey was about passion and entertainment among other things. I don't know when everyone here started being to morality police about anybody's actions during a game. It's' cool when Orr practically kills someone on the ice but its despicable when a coach freaks out on offensive fans? He missed the next game, yes. We lost the series, yes. Were we going to beat the caps? Never. Hank bailed the whole team out infinite times that series and it just wasn't going to happen anymore. We were the worse team and we lost. Get over it, that was 2 seasons ago.

Let me assume you're first retort would be that benched Avery for losing his cool and then lost his cool. On that note, yeah he did. He ****** up. I **** up too, a lot sometimes. So do you. So does everyone. I know that when I do something dumb I hope that those around me who are affected by it have enough strength in their personality to see it for what it is (often something hilarious or ironic to those who observe) and then forgive, see their own tendencies to do the same and move on. Avery doesn't seem to be too hung up on it, I don't know why you are.

More generally, Torts is not a bad coach. This lineup is full of holes, last year they had no backup goalie that was ready to play in this league, no first line center and if MDZ didn't jump right in and kill it they would have been seriously lacking a PP QB also. Given all that they lost to the Flyers who then went on a miraculous winning streak. I'm okay with that. I'd rather they won the cup, but that wasn't a reasonable outcome to expect. Torts got about as much out of his guys as was reasonable last year. The young guys are all still here, they're all better than they were the year before and not one of them has said a negative thing about Torts, despite the multitude of posters who want to try and speak for them asserting the opposite.

He's brought the youth movement along nicely. He's set up a system where you can be expected to be rewarded or punished as a player based on your effort, heart and hustle. He's made the most of a waiver player that nobody had given a real chance by showing faith in his abilities and giving him big minutes. He gave Prust extra minutes when his old coach wouldn't because Prust deserved them. He sat Sather's shiny new toy Kotalik when he was stinking it up. He sat Avery when he wasn't being effective. He sat Redden when he was having his worst game and he didn't waffle when Redden took offense to it. He's done a lot of good here if anybody would care to take off their hater blinders and actually pay attention to whats happening on the team instead of becoming obsessed with the baseless narratives of their choice.
i consider what he did not only completely uncool but also classless. i mean, when was the last time a coach reacted like that and had to be restrained by his asst ? like back in the 80's ?? i was embarrassed for him and the rangers. as ive said before, this guy is stuck in the past and this is just another example of it.

to me, the water bottle thing WAS a big deal. it changed that series. it sucked the life out that team. avery acted like a fool, but torts was a tool.

and this is the same guy that absolutely toasted gaborik at the end of the season. i consider calling out your best player in the media, and saying he played weak. really weak.

“That’s what makes my stomach turn today, 48 hours after, is that we had zero top guys show up,” Tortorella said during the Rangers’ breakup day Tuesday.


we had zero top guys show up in Philly, which is despicable.”

“I kept the (Erik) Christensen and Gaborik line together; they were brutal.

I kept on hoping and hoping that Erik would make a big play, or Gabby would make a big play.”

“I don’t like the way he (Gaborik) has played in big games,” the coach said. “I still think he needs to cross the line there and play better in big games.”

yeah...some coach.

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08-13-2010, 01:53 PM
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The only success Tortarella has had as the Rangers coach is making himself look like an ass in the media. You want to give this guy credit for a youth movement???? This guy would like nothing better than to fill his cubbard with guys with "jam", lmao. He's a terrible coach that can only win with a team stacked with talent, and that my friends is not your NY Rangers.
Now granted he has only been here for 100 games, so I do not necessarily blame him for anything wrong with the organization, but Staal, cally, dubi, girardi, were already with the big club, and AA and MDZ were known to be on their way.
Tortarella crushes confidence in young players and its no surprise to me that TB cut him loose when they went into retool mode. If Tom Renney had 2-3 more years to finish retooling this team, and then we brought in Torts i'd be a little more positive, because I do believe Torts is a finisher and can win the cup ala mike keenan, but he is not one to build a franchise and my biggest fear now is that I'm going to be watching a team full of average talent try and run and gun with the big dogs and before we all know it Hank will be 33 and we'll still be cupless looking in a new direction...
To win the Stanley Cup a team has to have a ton of talent. There are no fluke champions in hockey.

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08-13-2010, 01:54 PM
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Though he's kind of controversial I like his style. I bet none opened their mouth after the flying start we got last season though. Critics come in bad times, and despite a sad ending to last year and compared to the roster we had. It was NOT that bad imo. Henke can't win them all and Gabby can't pull the pointwagon alone...
The Rangers started the year 7-1 and ended the year 7-1-2. Outside of those 18 games, we were 24-31-9. Yeah, it WAS that bad.

If we had played those first 8 games and last 10 games to the same success rate as the rest of the season, we would have finished with 73 points, good for 2nd worst in the league. Seguin would be a Ranger right now

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08-13-2010, 01:55 PM
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Another thing that we all should be able to appreciate with Torts... The guys is just flat out honest. You don't have to ponder about what he's really thinking, that's for sure. When a coach is that clear it makes it easier for his players to understand what he wants.

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08-13-2010, 02:00 PM
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and this is the same guy that absolutely toasted gaborik at the end of the season. i consider calling out your best player in the media, and saying he played weak. really weak.
as the games got bigger Gaborik was less and less of an influence. whether it was right or not to call him out, I don't know, but his statements are accurate to me.

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The Rangers started the year 7-1 and ended the year 7-1-2. Outside of those 18 games, we were 24-31-9. Yeah, it WAS that bad.

If we had played those first 8 games and last 10 games to the same success rate as the rest of the season, we would have finished with 73 points, good for 2nd worst in the league. Seguin would be a Ranger right now
these arguments really bug me. the Renney detractors were big on this too. winning streaks count in the Standings. period.

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08-13-2010, 02:06 PM
  #71
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We weren't going to beat the caps or go on to win the cup. They were better than us in every single way that series and so was every team waiting for us after them.

Have you ever been a hypocrite in your life? I have. Would you be comfortable with carrying that label forever and ever based on one incident? I wouldn't.
I read your previous post. Trust me, Im not the morality police but you wont find me flying off the handle at my job, thats for sure. And this is based on one incident? Have you followed Tortorella's career at all? Hes a blowhard in everyway pretty much all the time.

As for the implication on the series, maybe you're right, the fact is we'll never know. Doesnt change the fact that Tortorella acted like a hypocrite/idiot, and created a major distraction for his team.

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08-13-2010, 02:07 PM
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Another thing that we all should be able to appreciate with Torts... The guys is just flat out honest. You don't have to ponder about what he's really thinking, that's for sure. When a coach is that clear it makes it easier for his players to understand what he wants.
Not when he sends a different message every day.

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08-13-2010, 02:07 PM
  #73
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as the games got bigger Gaborik was less and less of an influence. whether it was right or not to call him out, I don't know, but his statements are accurate to me.


these arguments really bug me. the Renney detractors were big on this too. winning streaks count in the Standings. period.
calling him out was wrong. counter productive and vindictive at that point. the season was over. say that privately to your superstar next time, not to the media. classless clown move imo.

gaby doesnt seek the spotlight. hes a private guy but hes a proud guy who gives 100% pretty much everytime hes on the ice. ive yet to hear anyone say otherwise.

i blame gabys fall off on torts. by january he was beat. he was overplayed all season. 5 on 5, pp, pk. too much ice time. torts rode this guy and wore him the phuk out. by spring he was toast. period.

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08-13-2010, 02:12 PM
  #74
KingWantsCup
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not when he sends a different message every day.
Things change everyday. Players will perform well and fall short through out the season. And Torts will let them know that. He certainly knows who to respect no matter what though, that being Hank of course.

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:12 PM
  #75
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
these arguments really bug me. the Renney detractors were big on this too. winning streaks count in the Standings. period.
Yeah they do, but when you go 24-31-9 over a 64 game stretch, that's a much better measure of the team than a 7-1 record to start the season or a 7-1-2 record to end the season. Essentially they played way over their heads for 18 out of 82 games, though the season ending streak was helped by playing mostly teams lower than us in the standings.

The team wasn't even as good as their record IMO.

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