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Tortorella's successes so far

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:15 PM
  #76
ThisYearsModel
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Tort's accomplishments:

Changed lines shift to shift all season, resulting in zero chemistry.
Grossly overplayed the key players, wearing them out.
Acted like an ******* to the media after losses.
Deflected blame for failure on to anyone but himself.
Acted like a boorish bully.
Was outcoached systems-wise by most opponents.
His team did not show up in the biggest game of the year, #82.

Other than that, he did just fine.

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Yeah they do, but when you go 24-31-9 over a 64 game stretch, that's a much better measure of the team than a 7-1 record to start the season or a 7-1-2 record to end the season. Essentially they played way over their heads for 18 out of 82 games, though the season ending streak was helped by playing mostly teams lower than us in the standings.

The team wasn't even as good as their record IMO.
the 64 game stretch is a better measure, so it counts for 64 games. the 7-1 start only makes up 8 games, but those 8 are just as valid as any 8 at any other point in the season.

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08-13-2010, 02:17 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Tort's accomplishments:

Changed lines shift to shift all season, resulting in zero chemistry.
Grossly overplayed the key players, wearing them out.
Acted like an ******* to the media after losses.
Deflected blame for failure on to anyone but himself.
Acted like a boorish bully.
Was outcoached systems-wise by most opponents.
His team did not show up in the biggest game of the year, #82.

Other than that, he did just fine.
Like who? Henrik was in top form. Gaborik was a bit tired, but that's more due to finally playing a full season again. Who was worn down?

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Like who? Henrik was in top form. Gaborik was a bit tired, but that's more due to finally playing a full season again. Who was worn down?
Prospal was certainly worn down. Henrik had a typically good season, but I'd say he was worn down at points too.

Regardless, I cant kill the guy for playing his top players extended minutes. This team stunk depth wise...any one of us would have done the same thing.

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08-13-2010, 02:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
the 64 game stretch is a better measure, so it counts for 64 games. the 7-1 start only makes up 8 games, but those 8 are just as valid as any 8 at any other point in the season.
It doesn't change the fact that the Rangers were one of the worst teams in the league for the majority of the season.

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:49 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Like who? Henrik was in top form. Gaborik was a bit tired, but that's more due to finally playing a full season again. Who was worn down?
You're crazy if you didn't realize he was overplaying his top guns. But then again, it depends on what YOU characterize "overplaying" as. Callahan, Lundqvist, Gaborik, Prospal among others were bone dry at the end of the season.

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08-13-2010, 02:49 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Like who? Henrik was in top form. Gaborik was a bit tired, but that's more due to finally playing a full season again. Who was worn down?
i would say prospal. at his age, he was overused, especially early in the season. he played alot of minutes nov - jan.

gaby for sure.

an argument could be made for mdz as well.

henrik was not in top form. the buf game comes to mind. awful. he was up and down really. he played alot of games but then again, when hes your best player and you are trying to get the last ticket to the dance, thats gonna happen.

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Old
08-13-2010, 02:54 PM
  #83
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It just seems to me that Tortorella has two strategies: 1) Yell and scream at the players on the bench, during practice, and in the locker room. If that fails then, 2) Throw them under the media bus and see if the beat writers can shame them into playing better.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It just seems to me that Tortorella has two strategies: 1) Yell and scream at the players on the bench, during practice, and in the locker room. If that fails then, 2) Throw them under the media bus and see if the beat writers can shame them into playing better.
Yeah, I wonder if he has any realistic 1 on 1 talks with these players.

Seems like a typical management representative that's indicative on only pointing out the negatives and never pointing out the positives. And if they are mentioned, they're "thrown in there" sort of, and only as a weighing point for the negative scale.

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08-13-2010, 03:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Callahan, Lundqvist, Gaborik, Prospal among others were bone dry at the end of the season.
So all those "Bone Dry" players helped pull off that 7-1-2 run. Har. Once again, this proves the haters are gonna hate.

And WHO exactly does the coach put in above the players you mentioned when he wants to win? WHO? Find some goals do some coaching where in the Rangers' lineup was there a player who just needed that extra playing time but was uncomfortable because of the coach.

If you say Lisin I'll laugh quietly and inwardly. Perhaps an outward chuckle that will cause co-workers to raise their heads. But that's all.

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08-13-2010, 03:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
So all those "Bone Dry" players helped pull off that 7-1-2 run. Har. Once again, this proves the haters are gonna hate.

And WHO exactly does the coach put in above the players you mentioned when he wants to win? WHO? Find some goals do some coaching where in the Rangers' lineup was there a player who just needed that extra playing time but was uncomfortable because of the coach.

If you say Lisin I'll laugh quietly and inwardly. Perhaps an outward chuckle that will cause co-workers to raise their heads. But that's all.
That's a typical NYR stretch. Just because Henrik was tired doesn't mean he couldn't perform. Also, if you recall, the bottom six was more valuable than the top six during that stretch. All those players were noticeably worn or even said so in the media. Prospal was a mid-30 year old, played on a generally fast line with a fast player in Gaborik, and had himself a fine season. By the end, he was toast. Staal I would say is one of the only players who adjusted well (besides normal season wear and tear) to upgrading his minutes dramatically from Renney to Torts.

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08-13-2010, 03:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Your opinion of Torts is based on what? Obviously not his performance. And what the hell is his system? Cause I'm pretty positive he bailed on that and took up Renney 2.0 when he realize he didn't have the horses to pull the cart.
Yes, his career performance. Are you familiar with it? Ok, let's not treat you like an idiot. You ARE familiar with it but you don't like the guy, right? Well, you can certainly feel free. But he's coach, so I'm laughing all the way to next season, on that one.

His system is high pressure offense, when he has the players for it. You're right that he went defensive after a hiatus that many of us around here felt was too long. Thankfully, the youths are more experienced, we have some new talent in the top six, etc. We may have a nice surprise this year.

I mean, you could count at least three different styles of D last season as he tried to work it out. I like that he's tinkering and trying to find the best solutions. Better than repeatedly banging square pegs/round holes etc.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:09 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree with the last part of your post. I dont expect much out of Tortorella and I didnt expect much out of Renney with the rosters of the last couple of seasons. The issue is, for whatever reason, a lot of people failed to analyze that the 2008-2009 team was vastly different (and less talented) than prior incarnations...so to say that the squad was even ready to go to the next level (and Renney was the one holding them back) is quite a ridiculous viewpoint.

But whats even more ridiculous is calling Torts' suspension during the 2009 playoffs a "non-issue." Up 3-1 in a series and your coach gets suspended for a potential clincher at home in the waining minutes of a game 5 loss? For attacking a fan with a waterbottle no less?!

I couldnt disagree more. Not only is it an issue, its a BIG issue when the coach's shtick is accountability. Its the absolute height of hypocrisy.
It also came on the heels of benching Avery for being undisciplined and putting himself before the team.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Prospal was a mid-30 year old, played on a generally fast line with a fast player in Gaborik, and had himself a fine season. By the end, he was toast.
Yeah, but they finished 7-1-2.

At the end the youth was exerting its strength, showing its legs. Prust, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan - wow those guys are going to be our engine this season.

Gotta love that.

edit:

Hell, look at these #'s:

April 2010, 6 games:
Anisimov: 5 points
Gaborik: 6 points
Dubinsky: 5 points
Prust: 5 points
Prospal: 3 points
Christensen: 4 points

Not bad. Not bad.


Last edited by BobSantos: 08-13-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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Old
08-13-2010, 03:10 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Yeah, but they finished 7-1-2.

I love that.
Love how you quoted that part but not the part that at least semi-addressed in my opinion (on an opinion board) of our reasoning for finishing 7-1-2.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:14 PM
  #91
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Its funny that Henrik was considered spent after this full season under Torts, but when he played the same number of games under Renney-nothing is said.LMAO.
Bob Santos- you are right when you said "Once again, this proves the haters are gonna hate."

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:14 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Tort's accomplishments:

Changed lines shift to shift all season, resulting in zero chemistry.
Drove me nuts.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:20 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Like who? Henrik was in top form. Gaborik was a bit tired, but that's more due to finally playing a full season again. Who was worn down?
Well while Henrik's play was in top form we don't know how much longer he could have gone like that. We all know Hank needs his breathers, and on top of that Henrik had a bad knee we didn't know about until later. Tortorella didn't have a choice but to play him every game down the stretch. It was either make the playoffs with a very tired and beat up hank or don't make the playoffs at all. I'm sure he would have been criticized more for giving Henrik a break during the end of last season.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:20 PM
  #94
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The line changes issue was supposed to change with a new coach. It got worse.

Wonder what happened...

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08-13-2010, 03:27 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Things change everyday. Players will perform well and fall short through out the season. And Torts will let them know that. He certainly knows who to respect no matter what though, that being Hank of course.
I know you can't stand this but when you've come out and said that you've only been watching the Rangers for two years, it's an honest question when I ask you if that's how long you've been watching hockey or any professional sport for?

Sometimes the comments you make are so naive and childish. It's as if you have this delusional liberal view of this fictitious utopia that you think exists and haven't actually experienced that it's not true.

EDIT: I meant to quote this from you, not the above..

"Another thing that we all should be able to appreciate with Torts... The guys is just flat out honest. You don't have to ponder about what he's really thinking, that's for sure. When a coach is that clear it makes it easier for his players to understand what he wants."


Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
Its funny that Henrik was considered spent after this full season under Torts, but when he played the same number of games under Renney-nothing is said.LMAO.
Bob Santos- you are right when you said "Once again, this proves the haters are gonna hate."
Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar.


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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Yes, his career performance. Are you familiar with it? Ok, let's not treat you like an idiot. You ARE familiar with it but you don't like the guy, right? Well, you can certainly feel free. But he's coach, so I'm laughing all the way to next season, on that one.

His system is high pressure offense, when he has the players for it. You're right that he went defensive after a hiatus that many of us around here felt was too long. Thankfully, the youths are more experienced, we have some new talent in the top six, etc. We may have a nice surprise this year.

I mean, you could count at least three different styles of D last season as he tried to work it out. I like that he's tinkering and trying to find the best solutions. Better than repeatedly banging square pegs/round holes etc.

Why on earth should I care what he's done anywhere but here?

I don't have any issue with the guy other than the fact that he took my favorite team backwards last season. That's about the extent of why I don't like him.

The funny thing is you'll try and call me and others out for not liking him, but you've done nothing in this entire thread to make a legitimate case for how he's performed well since he's been here. You're basically just hanging on the fact that you like him. Funny how that works.

As far as your last paragraph, you're basically admitting that he couldn't come up with a viable way to get this team into the playoffs.

Yeah, square pegs, round holes. Right, right.

How bout' winning some ****ing hockey games? Getting to the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams do? Accepting responsibility for your teams performance? Getting the most out of your players?

Yeah, how bout that.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:41 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Love how you quoted that part but not the part that at least semi-addressed in my opinion (on an opinion board) of our reasoning for finishing 7-1-2.
Was interested in actually figuring out how much our players produced in the last 10 games.

Gaborik- 10 points in his last 10 games
Prospal- 5 points in his last 10 games
Dubinsky- 8 points in his last 10 games
Prust- 6 points in his last 10 games
Anisimov- 7 points in his last 10 games
Jody- 5 points in his last 10 games
Callahan- 3 points in his last 10 games (ouch, he however provides in other areas)
Drury- 4 points in his last 10 games
MDZ- 7 points in his last 10 games
Avery- 6 points in his last 10 games (granted his last 10 werent all in that 7-1-2 stretch)
Christensen- 8 points in his last 10 games
Staal- 4 points in his last 10 games (3 game stretch of 1 goal each!)

I think thats enough. During a 7-1-2 stretch its self-explanatory that players will be relatively hot. What im trying to say is that the whole "our top player were spent" theory is not supported by the stats. Everyone besides Cally and Prospal provided at least their season averages. Most, besides Gabby (and obv Cally and Prospal) provided above their average. If tired and overworked, the top guns still found gas left in their tank regardless.

Perhaps this was completely useless, hopefully it helps somewhat.

On Torts himself....i like him overall. There are things, like the hypocrosy, that I dislike and feel it brings him down in the eyes of the fans. However, how he is able to get a lot out of certain players (like Prospal, EC, Anisimov, MDZ) impresses and makes me feel that even if we eventually win a SC without Torts, he will have played a part in it by helping to develop our youth.

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:45 PM
  #97
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Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar.

They beat some of the worst teams in hockey because that was what the schedule dictated. Its not like the NYR were given preferential treatment at the end of the season to play only the "worst teams". It was always understood that you played x amount of games against your division and against the rest of the divisions the SE and NE the same number of games as any other team. Trying to understand that playing the same teams the same number of games as everyone else creates a NYR advantage. LOL

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08-13-2010, 03:48 PM
  #98
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Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar.

They beat some of the worst teams in hockey because that was what the schedule dictated. Its not like the NYR were given preferential treatment at the end of the season to play only the "worst teams". It was always understood that you played x amount of games against your division and against the rest of the divisions the SE and NE the same number of games as any other team. Trying to understand that playing the same teams the same number of games as everyone else creates a NYR advantage. LOL
If you're comfortable with trying to prove your point based on the fact that the Rangers were easily one of the worst teams in hockey for the majority of the season, and then went on a 7-1-2 run against teams that were just as bad/worse than they were then that's fine with me.

Makes you look even more clueless.

(Also, just an aside, you do know you can hit the quote button right? It would be easier for you and everyone.)

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Old
08-13-2010, 03:55 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
Its funny that Henrik was considered spent after this full season under Torts, but when he played the same number of games under Renney-nothing is said.LMAO.
Bob Santos- you are right when you said "Once again, this proves the haters are gonna hate."

Forgive me for intruding and getting hate on your clothes...but you left out the part about the Olympics. 70+ games on an offensively inept team is grueling...the Olympics doesn't help that. While you may LMAO it off as the silly musings of the malcontent it is a possibility. Exhaustion was certainly on display at the end of '05 when he couldn't buy a win. Of course I'm just another hater...so what do I know.

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08-13-2010, 03:57 PM
  #100
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As I said way back almost at the beginning of this I'm not a fan of Tortorella's. When he replaced Renney though his analysis that the team didn't have enough gas was spot on. There was only one reason the Rangers took the Caps to 7 games and that was Henrik. He stood on his head the entire series. That team was not going anywhere either with Renney or with Tortorella.

It seems to me though that the two coaches had two entirely different approaches. The Renney/Jagr teams had a lot more latitude about them. I came to really admire Jagr in some respects. Very open and funny with the media. The team usually was relaxed and were more often than not fun to watch especially after a stretch of 7 straight playoff less seasons. Renney gave them respect and some freedom and they responded very well to that. There's no way in any case you go into a locker room with Shanahan and Jagr and treat them like children.

Those guys are gone and Tortorella is a lot more controlling and this may be part of the problem with Avery--who is a player he didn't care for even before he became the Rangers coach and who thrived on the Renney/Jagr teams. Drury is not like Shanahan or Jagr. A lot quieter and a lot more reserved and he's not going to the HOF either except maybe as a paying customer.

One of Tortorella's main critiques of Renney was that his players weren't in good enough shape. That was what all the hullabaloo over boot camp training camp was last year. I didn't spot a big improvement. 'The safe is death' remark he likes to quote is not tailor made for the player personnel the team has--meaning he as coach has got to adjust to weaknesses. The Rangers got off to a big start but when other teams start to figure you out you've got to adjust. I didn't see much of that either and the team took a nosedive. I didn't like his breakup day speechifying either. He pointed his finger in a lot of directions. He didn't look in the mirror. In game line matchings, the odd tantrums directed at players, sometimes even for bad calls made against them, the constant switching of linemates, the needless acrimony at press conferences--to be honest I wouldn't mind having Renney back or even someone else. What it comes down to though is that to keep his job he's going to need to get this team back into the playoffs. It could happen. It might not.

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