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Tortorella's successes so far

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Old
08-13-2010, 04:01 PM
  #101
Shadowtron
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Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar.

They beat some of the worst teams in hockey because that was what the schedule dictated. Its not like the NYR were given preferential treatment at the end of the season to play only the "worst teams". It was always understood that you played x amount of games against your division and against the rest of the divisions the SE and NE the same number of games as any other team. Trying to understand that playing the same teams the same number of games as everyone else creates a NYR advantage. LOL
Is someone here suggesting that the end of season schedule was preferential? DerekR...you're a smart guy, but you're absolutely writing fiction here, man.

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08-13-2010, 04:02 PM
  #102
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Well to assume that the NYR were given preferential treatment when playing the same amount of games against the same teams as everyone else and then try to explain the sad statement "Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar." as anything other than a club going 7-1-2 is just something that is thrown on the wall hoping that a dumb statement sticks. The fact that they played those games and beat the teams that needed to be beat -as a fan you should be happy but instead it wrecks your happy spot that the team was able to recover and make a decent run at the PO's with a roster that was obviously flawed. I feel sorry for you being a fan that has to deal with the success at the end of the season, regardless of the outcome. I guess hatred clouds the judgement. It should make no difference when these teams are played and in what order-each team has the same conference matchups.

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08-13-2010, 04:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Why on earth should I care what he's done anywhere but here?

I don't have any issue with the guy other than the fact that he took my favorite team backwards last season. That's about the extent of why I don't like him.

The funny thing is you'll try and call me and others out for not liking him, but you've done nothing in this entire thread to make a legitimate case for how he's performed well since he's been here. You're basically just hanging on the fact that you like him. Funny how that works.

As far as your last paragraph, you're basically admitting that he couldn't come up with a viable way to get this team into the playoffs.

Yeah, square pegs, round holes. Right, right.

How bout' winning some ****ing hockey games? Getting to the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams do? Accepting responsibility for your teams performance? Getting the most out of your players?

Yeah, how bout that.
Call you out? You put yourself in a position just as I've put myself in a position. Yes I like him. I think he may turn out to be a very good, if not great coach for our young team. I have said as much, so your observation is taken as well-meaning understanding of my position, and not so much as snarky comment.

And regarding the playoffs - YES! He couldn't do it last year. You got it. You read the results and saw the games.

Based on his track record, the fantastic comments about him from (not the media) his players, and the continuing development of our own club we will see an improvement in the standings this year.

You gotta get out of the fishbowl and see the bigger picture. A team can't be torn down and rebuilt in a summer. This is a process and we will see improvement, barring major injuries to key players.

The hate. I don't get it. This is your coach. This is the Rangers' coach. Why the hate?

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Old
08-13-2010, 04:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
Was interested in actually figuring out how much our players produced in the last 10 games.

Gaborik- 10 points in his last 10 games
Prospal- 5 points in his last 10 games
Dubinsky- 8 points in his last 10 games
Prust- 6 points in his last 10 games
Anisimov- 7 points in his last 10 games
Jody- 5 points in his last 10 games
Callahan- 3 points in his last 10 games (ouch, he however provides in other areas)
Drury- 4 points in his last 10 games
MDZ- 7 points in his last 10 games
Avery- 6 points in his last 10 games (granted his last 10 werent all in that 7-1-2 stretch)
Christensen- 8 points in his last 10 games
Staal- 4 points in his last 10 games (3 game stretch of 1 goal each!)

I think thats enough. During a 7-1-2 stretch its self-explanatory that players will be relatively hot. What im trying to say is that the whole "our top player were spent" theory is not supported by the stats. Everyone besides Cally and Prospal provided at least their season averages. Most, besides Gabby (and obv Cally and Prospal) provided above their average. If tired and overworked, the top guns still found gas left in their tank regardless.

Perhaps this was completely useless, hopefully it helps somewhat.

On Torts himself....i like him overall. There are things, like the hypocrosy, that I dislike and feel it brings him down in the eyes of the fans. However, how he is able to get a lot out of certain players (like Prospal, EC, Anisimov, MDZ) impresses and makes me feel that even if we eventually win a SC without Torts, he will have played a part in it by helping to develop our youth.
Thank you. I was trying to make this point myself in a post a few above yours. The argument that the team was gassed by the coach is just not correct. The stats prove it.

And once you point this out, they revert to yet another canard saying that the opposition was weak. Ridiculous. They will continue pumping bile, and the argument will be ad infinitum.

DekeR: Thank you, sir.

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08-13-2010, 04:14 PM
  #105
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FWIW they looked gassed the last game of the season when it was either them or the Flyers. They were horrible that game.

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08-13-2010, 04:20 PM
  #106
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The fact that they played those games and beat the teams that needed to be beat -as a fan you should be happy but instead it wrecks your happy spot that the team was able to recover and make a decent run at the PO's with a roster that was obviously flawed.
Why are you assuming I (or anyone) wasn't happy with those wins? Because we're attempting to put them in perspective after the fact? Are you so intellectually empty that you have to resort to invention to maintain argument? The problem is you lump people into two boxes: "true fans" and "haters"...and it gives your opinion about as much depth as a child's tantrum. It's like arguing with a religious zealot.


Quote:
I feel sorry for you being a fan that has to deal with the success at the end of the season, regardless of the outcome. I guess hatred clouds the judgement. It should make no difference when these teams are played and in what order-each team has the same conference matchups.
HAHAH...yes! This comment just made my day. Did you beat your fists and feet on the floor after you wrote it? God, I hope so. HAHa...classic stuff here DekeR.


Last edited by Shadowtron: 08-13-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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Old
08-13-2010, 04:22 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
If you're comfortable with trying to prove your point based on the fact that the Rangers were easily one of the worst teams in hockey for the majority of the season, and then went on a 7-1-2 run against teams that were just as bad/worse than they were then that's fine with me.

Makes you look even more clueless.

(Also, just an aside, you do know you can hit the quote button right? It would be easier for you and everyone.)
Yeah I just figured some of your dumb remarks were sufficient enough to answer instead of all of them.

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Old
08-13-2010, 04:37 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
How on earth does not making the playoffs for the first time since the lockout equate to the team getting better last year? Especially when your predecessor got them there every year and STILL got fired.

How does being ATROCIOUS on home ice and playing some of the worst hockey in the league from November-March equate to getting better?
This year meaning this upcoming season. Sorry i worded that wrong. I just think Torts is rebuilding so that the Rangers are contenders for years to come. Not signing players who are over the hill and will help for a year or 2

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08-13-2010, 04:43 PM
  #109
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Out of the Rangers last 14 games, 7 were against teams that made the playoffs and 3 were against the eventual Stanley Cup finalist Philadelphia Flyers.

5 out of their last 11 were against playoff teams.

And, they went 7-2-1 and did what they were supposed to do to try and claw back into the thick of things. Other teams that made the playoffs (particularly the SE division) play TONS of games against non-playoff crappy teams.

Furthermore, what was Torts working with last year? Do you think if he were, say, coaching the Flyers that they wouldn't have made the playoffs with that lineup? He had/has a **** roster to work with.

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08-13-2010, 05:29 PM
  #110
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It's a darn good thing I clicked on this thread to have people remind me what a good season it was. Gosh! 7-1-2? That's got to be one of the best finishes to a season for the Rangers ever. It almost reminds me of the previous seasons when the Rangers had to go on life and death tears to make the playoffs to compensate for inconsistent play throughout the season... with the exception of making the playoffs. But boy... 7-1-2. Man, oh, man... I should print me up a banner or get a vanity plate or something. And I thought Torts didn't have any success last season. 7-1-2! And that was without Frolov in the Roster. What does that come out to? Like 58-8-16 this season? AHHH!!!!! Greatest season ever!!! Who's with me?

*keeps fingers crossed the thread keeps going on and on about 7-1-2 and all the scientific data to support Rangers conditioning down the stretch*

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Old
08-13-2010, 05:45 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
It's a darn good thing I clicked on this thread to have people remind me what a good season it was. Gosh! 7-1-2? That's got to be one of the best finishes to a season for the Rangers ever. It almost reminds me of the previous seasons when the Rangers had to go on life and death tears to make the playoffs to compensate for inconsistent play throughout the season... with the exception of making the playoffs. But boy... 7-1-2. Man, oh, man... I should print me up a banner or get a vanity plate or something. And I thought Torts didn't have any success last season. 7-1-2! And that was without Frolov in the Roster. What does that come out to? Like 58-8-16 this season? AHHH!!!!! Greatest season ever!!! Who's with me?

*keeps fingers crossed the thread keeps going on and on about 7-1-2 and all the scientific data to support Rangers conditioning down the stretch*
is this a conscious effort to miss the point? The canard about the players being gassed was emitted by someone. The point is not valid. Everyone knows this but the anti-torts crowd. Please.

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Old
08-13-2010, 05:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
calling him out was wrong. counter productive and vindictive at that point. the season was over. say that privately to your superstar next time, not to the media. classless clown move imo.
You spin a lot but you can't quantify the above statement until next season. Maybe it wasn't counter-productive at all, maybe Gabby comes out next season looking to prove that he is a big game player.

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08-13-2010, 06:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Call you out? You put yourself in a position just as I've put myself in a position. Yes I like him. I think he may turn out to be a very good, if not great coach for our young team. I have said as much, so your observation is taken as well-meaning understanding of my position, and not so much as snarky comment.

And regarding the playoffs - YES! He couldn't do it last year. You got it. You read the results and saw the games.

Based on his track record, the fantastic comments about him from (not the media) his players, and the continuing development of our own club we will see an improvement in the standings this year.

You gotta get out of the fishbowl and see the bigger picture. A team can't be torn down and rebuilt in a summer. This is a process and we will see improvement, barring major injuries to key players.

The hate. I don't get it. This is your coach. This is the Rangers' coach. Why the hate?
What are you basing it on that he's good for our youth? A hypocritical guy who is a loose cannon and lets his emotions get the best of him? I just don't understand what makes him an upgrade from where we were. Was it a change just for the sake of making a change?

Fantastic comments about him from the players? I'm sorry but I can't take stuff like that to heart. The guys who play for him aren't going to say they don't like him or how they do things. They want to play. No one is that stupid. And most past players, unless they had a really rocky relationships that's well known about with the guy are not going to come out and say bad things. I just think that's completely irrelevant.

This is New York. We don't rebuild here and we're not doing it now. We're half assing it like we always do.

I'm not in a fishbowl.

And I agree that we feel differently about the man, but so far you're trying to defend him with nonsense and conjecture while the rest of us are actually using examples of what went on last year. There's a big difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdogfizzle View Post
This year meaning this upcoming season. Sorry i worded that wrong. I just think Torts is rebuilding so that the Rangers are contenders for years to come. Not signing players who are over the hill and will help for a year or 2
I think you overestimate the role that Torts has in this organizations building. If Torts doesn't win, and win soon, he's going to be gone.

You think he's still here if this team doesn't make the playoffs this year?

This organization will stay on this path regardless of who is at the helm behind the bench.


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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Out of the Rangers last 14 games, 7 were against teams that made the playoffs and 3 were against the eventual Stanley Cup finalist Philadelphia Flyers.

5 out of their last 11 were against playoff teams.

And, they went 7-2-1 and did what they were supposed to do to try and claw back into the thick of things. Other teams that made the playoffs (particularly the SE division) play TONS of games against non-playoff crappy teams.

Furthermore, what was Torts working with last year? Do you think if he were, say, coaching the Flyers that they wouldn't have made the playoffs with that lineup? He had/has a **** roster to work with.

In the stretch the Rangers went 7-1-2 they beat the Islanders twice, who were a non-playoff team, the Lightning and Panthers, who were non-playoff teams, and the Maple Leafs, who were a non-playoff team.

So 5 of the 7 wins were against non-playoff teams. They also beat the Devils and the Flyers. Not to mention a loss to the horrible Leafs as well.

And what about the three straight losses to the Canadiens, Blues, and Bruins that pretty much ended our season? Two of those three at home. That was part of a stretch where they lost 6 of 8 right before their end of the season cake walk against non-playoff teams.

As for your last paragraph, if that's how you feel than why are you so adamantly defending this guy? If the coach is so irrelevant then why did we fire Renney?

And if Torts was coaching the Flyers, I would venture to say they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

We're talking about a team who needed to win on the last day of the season against our sorry ass team just to get there.

Put a hot headed, poor tactical coach back there and yeah I'd say there's a good chance they don't get there.

Laviolette is far superior to Torts IMO. That's just opinion though.

I will say that I would've liked to have seen Renney coach this team last year.

I guarantee you he would've gotten more out of this team than Torts did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
Well to assume that the NYR were given preferential treatment when playing the same amount of games against the same teams as everyone else and then try to explain the sad statement "Not when you consider the reason he made that comment was in reference to the Rangers stretch at the end of the season...where they beat some of the worst teams in hockey. Stellar." as anything other than a club going 7-1-2 is just something that is thrown on the wall hoping that a dumb statement sticks. The fact that they played those games and beat the teams that needed to be beat -as a fan you should be happy but instead it wrecks your happy spot that the team was able to recover and make a decent run at the PO's with a roster that was obviously flawed. I feel sorry for you being a fan that has to deal with the success at the end of the season, regardless of the outcome. I guess hatred clouds the judgement. It should make no difference when these teams are played and in what order-each team has the same conference matchups.

Huh? I'm not talkinga bout preferential treatment. I'm talking about the fact that for more than 2/3 of the entire season this was one of the worst teams in hockey. And they were that for the bulk of time with no solid streaks in between. Their two streaks came at the beginning and end of the season. The latter, which was against terrible teams.

Hate clouds the judgment? Huh? I don't even know what you're talking about.

Something's clouding your judgment cause you're not even on the same planet as the rest of us here.

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Old
08-13-2010, 07:06 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
What are you basing it on that he's good for our youth? A hypocritical guy who is a loose cannon and lets his emotions get the best of him? I just don't understand what makes him an upgrade from where we were. Was it a change just for the sake of making a change?

Fantastic comments about him from the players? I'm sorry but I can't take stuff like that to heart. The guys who play for him aren't going to say they don't like him or how they do things. They want to play. No one is that stupid. And most past players, unless they had a really rocky relationships that's well known about with the guy are not going to come out and say bad things. I just think that's completely irrelevant.

This is New York. We don't rebuild here and we're not doing it now. We're half assing it like we always do.

I'm not in a fishbowl.

And I agree that we feel differently about the man, but so far you're trying to defend him with nonsense and conjecture while the rest of us are actually using examples of what went on last year. There's a big difference.
You're blind. I've given stats when warranted. I've quoted his players. I've presented his resume.

That's all I have.

Stats, quotes and resumes don't do it for you? So = You are in a fishbowl, my friend. Sorry.

And, you know what? I don't give a ***** because he's our coach. I take pleasure in the fact that we will have to watch him play out next season. I really hope he does well - for our team and for my own pleasure as a fan. But one of the bits of icing on the cake will be you festering in your feelings toward the man, unable to enjoy the team because of it.

Actually, to tell you the truth I probably won't even remember who I've responded to here, so no worries. Enjoy Coach Tortorella for the season. You have no other choice.

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08-13-2010, 07:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
You're blind. I've given stats when warranted. I've quoted his players. I've presented his resume.

That's all I have.

Stats, quotes and resumes don't do it for you? So = You are in a fishbowl, my friend. Sorry.

And, you know what? I don't give a ***** because he's our coach. I take pleasure in the fact that we will have to watch him play out next season. I really hope he does well - for our team and for my own pleasure as a fan. But one of the bits of icing on the cake will be you festering in your feelings toward the man, unable to enjoy the team because of it.

Actually, to tell you the truth I probably won't even remember who I've responded to here, so no worries. Enjoy Coach Tortorella for the season. You have no other choice.

What stats did you provide? I'm sorry if I missed them.

Again, his resume is irrelevant to me. I care about the New York Rangers and what was going on before him and what has gone on since he got here.


You purposely ignored the fact that quotes from players are irrelevant. They do nothing to fortify your argument. If your'e naive enough to think that players who don't like him are going to tear him apart in the media or that guys who used to play for him are going to take needless shots at him then I don't know what to tell you. Except that you're probably the one in this hypothetical fishbowl.

Renney was the most likeable guy on earth. Guaranteed that every player who has played for both like Tom more. He wasn't a dick. How is that relevant though?

You come off with this attitude like you're above everyone because you support the coach. All of us here want the team to succeed. I'll be his biggest cheerleader this year. All I'm offering is un-biased observation of what he's done since he's been here. You're basing yours off past history pre-Rangers and nonsense generic player quotes.

You can do better than that I hope.


Last edited by ruckus*: 08-13-2010 at 07:46 PM.
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08-13-2010, 08:37 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I'd say his biggest success so far has been his ability to whip, or even scare players into shape before the season. (There will be no Albert Haynesworths here! ) Other than that I think just his preference and insistence on seeing youth is a success in and of itself. Also he's very good at calling time outs and organizing a plan at a major point in the game. He's won us a couple games this way. All in all I like Tortorella, and I like how our future looks. I see Torts as the guy who leads us to our next cup, but I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. I'm talking like around the 2013'-2014' season, earliest.
With the title of this thread, the most logical posting should have been......blank space

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08-13-2010, 10:10 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
What stats did you provide? I'm sorry if I missed them.

Again, his resume is irrelevant to me. I care about the New York Rangers and what was going on before him and what has gone on since he got here.


You purposely ignored the fact that quotes from players are irrelevant. They do nothing to fortify your argument. If your'e naive enough to think that players who don't like him are going to tear him apart in the media or that guys who used to play for him are going to take needless shots at him then I don't know what to tell you. Except that you're probably the one in this hypothetical fishbowl.

Renney was the most likeable guy on earth. Guaranteed that every player who has played for both like Tom more. He wasn't a dick. How is that relevant though?
If you consider quotes irrelevant than there is very little I can do to help you understand my point of view.

Actually maybe there is. Prospal. It was reported that he had tremendous interpersonal difficulties with Tortorella in TB. But he, outside of the confines of working for the Garden, made the choice to play for Torts again. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
You come off with this attitude like you're above everyone because you support the coach. All of us here want the team to succeed. I'll be his biggest cheerleader this year. All I'm offering is un-biased observation of what he's done since he's been here. You're basing yours off past history pre-Rangers and nonsense generic player quotes.

You can do better than that I hope.
Your opinion isn't unbiased. It has a slant. Like mine. You chose not to look at the development side of the coin with the organization right now. You may have decided that making the playoffs is your metric for success. So - after a few years of not making the playoffs and the players not developing, I'd probably agree with your position. Not now, though. This ride has just started.

And a last point regarding player quotes: they don't have to be positive. They can be neutral, which is what they are if the player wants to keep playing and doesn't like the coach. When they're positive, it means something, especially when you see that great quote from Christensen, who gave a long, detailed explanation of the coach-player dynamic. That wasn't canned.

So, go back, find the stats. Look at the history. Read the "irrelevant" quotes. You may learn something besides your own personal opinion.

I think we've done this long enough, don't you? Cheers.

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08-13-2010, 10:21 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
To win the Stanley Cup a team has to have a ton of talent. There are no fluke champions in hockey.
I should have been more clear, I was speaking of dynamic offensive talents to play his system, which was essentialy the opposite of what we had been building here the 3-4 yrs prior, a grinding defensive first system.

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08-13-2010, 10:22 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I know you can't stand this but when you've come out and said that you've only been watching the Rangers for two years, it's an honest question when I ask you if that's how long you've been watching hockey or any professional sport for?

Sometimes the comments you make are so naive and childish. It's as if you have this delusional liberal view of this fictitious utopia that you think exists and haven't actually experienced that it's not true.

EDIT: I meant to quote this from you, not the above..

"Another thing that we all should be able to appreciate with Torts... The guys is just flat out honest. You don't have to ponder about what he's really thinking, that's for sure. When a coach is that clear it makes it easier for his players to understand what he wants."
I've been a Rangers fan since March 9th 2008, so yes I have about two years of experience as a fan of hockey. I've also watched professional sports all my life. Previously you were seemingly trying to belittle my views of the team because of that, which I didn't appreciate. I don't believe anyone's knowledge of a sport directly correlates with how long they've watched the sport. Whether you intended to or not, I felt disrespected before, which is why I called you a jerk. I apologize if you really didn't mean any harm.

I think we simply have very basic philosophical views on a team we both love. I think this team has a very bright future and feel it's completely realistic that we can win the cup within the next three to five years. You may not agree, which is fine. I don't know what you expect from the Rangers, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and see where exactly we conflict for the sake of argument.

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08-13-2010, 10:27 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
Not going to argue with your opinion but are there any quotes or articles backing up the 'crushes confidence' thing or is it your point of view?
quotes or articles no, but like all posts here that aren't quotes and regurgitations of fact, this is my opinion.
An opinion based on logic, if you were a young player (gilroy, dubinsky, del zotto etc..) and you routinely watch your coach discipline some players but not others, hold some players accountable and not others, and single you out, but not others, than I think it to be logical that this hurts confidence in the organization and your place in the organization.

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Old
08-13-2010, 10:44 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
If you consider quotes irrelevant than there is very little I can do to help you understand my point of view.

Actually maybe there is. Prospal. It was reported that he had tremendous interpersonal difficulties with Tortorella in TB. But he, outside of the confines of working for the Garden, made the choice to play for Torts again. Why?



Your opinion isn't unbiased. It has a slant. Like mine. You chose not to look at the development side of the coin with the organization right now. You may have decided that making the playoffs is your metric for success. So - after a few years of not making the playoffs and the players not developing, I'd probably agree with your position. Not now, though. This ride has just started.

And a last point regarding player quotes: they don't have to be positive. They can be neutral, which is what they are if the player wants to keep playing and doesn't like the coach. When they're positive, it means something, especially when you see that great quote from Christensen, who gave a long, detailed explanation of the coach-player dynamic. That wasn't canned.

So, go back, find the stats. Look at the history. Read the "irrelevant" quotes. You may learn something besides your own personal opinion.

I think we've done this long enough, don't you? Cheers.

Once again you're only selecting certain points to respond to. Quotes ARE irrelevant because no player who is playing for the guy is going to say something bad. They want to play, not get into a pissing match with their coach. Prospal likes him? Great. I'm sure there's plenty more than one. That doesn't make his tenure with the Rangers good.

Don't you see how short sighted this is on your part?

Uhh duhh, like players said they liked him and stuff. He must be good coach.

What are you even trying to say about quotes being the bases of you legitimately making the point that he has been a good coach since he's been here? It's absurd.

My opinion IS unbiased. I know it because I have NOTHING against Tortorella. I don't even freakin' mind the guy. My entire opinion is based on his tenure here and his performance as a coach. Something I have no reason to be biased about.


You never answerd my question about Renney. If your basis for Torts being a good coach and reasoning for why you support him being here is that players have been quoted saying good things about him, then there is no reason Renney should have been fired.

Guaranteed more players enjoyed and spoke vocally about playing for Tom than Torts' bi-polar personality.

What exactly is your point? You're stating absolutely nothing and then acting like you're proving something.

Ohhh duhh like the players totally like TortZ! Ya know! That like, totally ya know makes him a good coach.

Like what are you even saying?

Please explain, I'm dying to hear this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I've been a Rangers fan since March 9th 2008, so yes I have about two years of experience as a fan of hockey. I've also watched professional sports all my life. Previously you were seemingly trying to belittle my views of the team because of that, which I didn't appreciate. I don't believe anyone's knowledge of a sport directly correlates with how long they've watched the sport. Whether you intended to or not, I felt disrespected before, which is why I called you a jerk. I apologize if you really didn't mean any harm.

I think we simply have very basic philosophical views on a team we both love. I think this team has a very bright future and feel it's completely realistic that we can win the cup within the next three to five years. You may not agree, which is fine. I don't know what you expect from the Rangers, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and see where exactly we conflict for the sake of argument.

If you interpret opposing viewpoints as belittling you, I can't do anything about that.

Questioning your knowledge of the subject you're talking about isn't disrespectful.

If I've been a mechanic for a week, and I'm working on your car, aren't you more inclined to question if I know what I'm talking about?

I have no problem with you being a new fan, but when you say things like...

"I'd say his biggest success so far has been his ability to whip, or even scare players into shape before the season. (There will be no Albert Haynesworths here! ) Other than that I think just his preference and insistence on seeing youth is a success in and of itself. Also he's very good at calling time outs and organizing a plan at a major point in the game. He's won us a couple games this way. All in all I like Tortorella, and I like how our future looks. I see Torts as the guy who leads us to our next cup, but I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. I'm talking like around the 2013'-2014' season, earliest."


It's hard to take you seriously. What are you basing any of this on? It's like some fantasy land.

Where did he whip players into shape? In what professional sport is scaring players a successful method of coaching?

HIS preference on seeing youth? This is an organizational philosophy at this point, that has been clearly defined for them due to their mishandling of the salary cap and the painfully obvious examples around the league that show you have to build from within.

It's also a very easy scape goat for coach who doesn't like to accept blame for his failures and is trying to keep his job as long as he can.

He's very good at calling time outs!!!!???? Seriously!!??? That can't be serious.

And you think Torts is going to lead us to a Stanley Cup but he's going to be allowed to coach here for ANOTHER 4 years after the season he just had before he does that?

Your statements just seem like things my sister would say if she watched 10 games a year with me.

I apologize if that offends you. It's one thing to be adamant in your disagreement with someone's opinion. It's another to read something and be like, what on earth is this person talking about?

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Old
08-13-2010, 11:22 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
MDZ was "known to be on [his] way"?? If you don't give him any credit for MDZ's development then there is no hope.

At least you don't "blame him" yet. But wait, do you? See next quote:



Evidence. Where is it? We all know certain star centers making $10mil a season had their best years under Tortorella. We know he won a cup with a young Tampa team. We know his first season in Tampa was out of playoffs. His second was a second round exit. His third was the SC. He helped build it, in other words. Come on. Evidence.

How about this November 4, 2009 quote from MDZ in the Post?
Man, you have got to be joking me, your arguements here are laughable. I stated my opinion, if you don't like it or disagree with it thats fine, but don't come at me with a joke of an arguement.

If I don't give John Tortarella credit for MDZ development ther is no hope?
Your talking about a guy who may be the single most talented draft pick the Rangers have selected in the past 5 years. From March 2009 when tortarella joined the organization, to october 2009 when MDZ became a nhl player, 8 months, Torts made an impact on his development? Seriously? John Tortarella doesn't even coach the defense.

Your second point is even worse, championships are not slapped together in 3 yrs, and if they are it isn't by the coach, its by the GM. When Torts arrived in Tampa, Brad Richards, Vinny Lecavalier and Marty St.Louis were already there, these were guys with phenominal talent, richards and lecavalier had already produced a 20+ goal season before he took over, st. louis had 18, yes they were young, but these guys were developing fine apperently. Do we have 3 guys in the system right now with the upside of richards, lecavalier and st. louis? If we do, get them here now, because those guys stepped in and delivered. Other key pieces of that cup win,
Kubina, there already, a vet, boyle and khabibulin, traded for.

Yes Tortarella delivered a cup, and I gave him credit for that, hes a finisher, a guy that can milk the best out of a serious contender and will allow supremely talented players the system to do their thing. He built nothing there though, as witnessed by the complete collapse with the departure of a few pieces. Who developed under tortarellas reign thats a star in Tampa now. and dont give me the name of a superstar that would develop anywhere under anyone.

As far as the MDZ quote, let me guess, the 19 yo rookie is gonna criticize his new head coach less than one month into his career as a NHL pro? Ask MDZ in private what he thinks of having his minutes cut for mistakes that he watches Rosival, staal, girardi and redden make with no punishment, ask dubinsky and gilroy the same things. Tortarella preaches rewarding effort, but it rings hollow watching this team.

P.S. Brad richards didnt have his best seasons in Tampa, just last season he put up 91 points in 80 games, the best performance of his career (matching his 91 in 82 games in 05-06)

P.S.S. Yes, draft picks as highly regarded as MDZ are considered to be on their way (as displayed by him being here at 19), as opposed to fringe prospects that may or may not make it

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Old
08-14-2010, 12:08 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
is this a conscious effort to miss the point? The canard about the players being gassed was emitted by someone. The point is not valid. Everyone knows this but the anti-torts crowd. Please.
The only way I could miss the point was if I got dizzy and passed out as a result of a meandering discussion that has gone in pointless circles so many times it's created a vortex in which substantive assertions couldn't possibly hope to endure. Fortunately 7-1-2 will always serve as a beacon to restore us to paradise.

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Old
08-14-2010, 12:21 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post

If you interpret opposing viewpoints as belittling you, I can't do anything about that.

Questioning your knowledge of the subject you're talking about isn't disrespectful.

If I've been a mechanic for a week, and I'm working on your car, aren't you more inclined to question if I know what I'm talking about?

I have no problem with you being a new fan, but when you say things like...

"I'd say his biggest success so far has been his ability to whip, or even scare players into shape before the season. (There will be no Albert Haynesworths here! ) Other than that I think just his preference and insistence on seeing youth is a success in and of itself. Also he's very good at calling time outs and organizing a plan at a major point in the game. He's won us a couple games this way. All in all I like Tortorella, and I like how our future looks. I see Torts as the guy who leads us to our next cup, but I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. I'm talking like around the 2013'-2014' season, earliest."


It's hard to take you seriously. What are you basing any of this on? It's like some fantasy land.

Where did he whip players into shape? In what professional sport is scaring players a successful method of coaching?

HIS preference on seeing youth? This is an organizational philosophy at this point, that has been clearly defined for them due to their mishandling of the salary cap and the painfully obvious examples around the league that show you have to build from within.

It's also a very easy scape goat for coach who doesn't like to accept blame for his failures and is trying to keep his job as long as he can.

He's very good at calling time outs!!!!???? Seriously!!??? That can't be serious.

And you think Torts is going to lead us to a Stanley Cup but he's going to be allowed to coach here for ANOTHER 4 years after the season he just had before he does that?

Your statements just seem like things my sister would say if she watched 10 games a year with me.

I apologize if that offends you. It's one thing to be adamant in your disagreement with someone's opinion. It's another to read something and be like, what on earth is this person talking about?
Your analogy is not relevant. A fan can watch casually for ten years, catch a few games in the playoffs, not really know much of the roster aside from the big guys. Another fan in a much shorter amount of time, say a year, can learn the ins and outs of a team and it's history. This isn't like some sort of trade, it's understanding a sport. Understanding a sport is not that difficult. It's not like you need some sort of hockey education to be a knowledgeable fan. So once again,There is absolutely no direct relevance between amount of time watched and knowledge of a sport. My "fantasy land" as your referring to is just some projections, predictions, a stab at the future. Apparently I wasn't clear enough on that. It's based off of how I think our core will develop, who's in and who's out of their prime, and primary free agents we sign. It's all my guess work, nothing more.

Do you think I'm betting the farm on the Rangers winning the cup in 2013-2014? Hell no. It's just that based off what I know now and what I expect that's how I feel right now. You've missed the point on the time out reference. I was saying how when he calls a time out he devises plans that work fairly often in my perspective. He won us a few games this way, including what was voted as the game of the year last year against the Devils before Drury scored the tying goal with 17 seconds left. Don't ask me to name every game he did this, I can't recall every one.

Yes, his preferance for youth. Since Tortorella has coached the Rangers he has always had a strong preference for playing youth. Sather calls the shots but who do you think is one of the biggest guys who whispers in his ear?

And I said he scares his players into coming into camp in shape. How in the world is that bad? Scaring them as in they know they won't get played if they're not fit enough because they know Torts doesn't play favorites.

Do I expect Torts to coach another four years? I'd say there's more than a 50% chance of that happening, which is why he's factored into my "fantasy land".

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Old
08-14-2010, 01:15 AM
  #125
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*Sigh* What a predictable thread...

Anyway, one interesting thing that might be worth looking at this season coming up is to see how this team performs in the first non-Olympics year under Torts.

Particularly, young guys like MDZ, Anisimov, perhaps even Gilroy if he's in the lineup I'm going to follow regarding this. A condensed schedule is tough on everyone but especially so on rookies.

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