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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VI

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Old
08-15-2010, 07:07 AM
  #101
northernKing
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
I HOPE it's a 2-year deal, heck a one year deal would be the best. We have a ******** of money tied up in offensively inept defensemen as it is.
We do? Greene at $2.95M and Scuderi at $3.4M isn't bad at all.

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08-15-2010, 07:54 AM
  #102
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We do? Greene at $2.95M and Scuderi at $3.4M isn't bad at all.
It's pretty bad actually. Good teams usually don't pay defensive d-men that much unless they're legit shutdown guys. I don't mind it right now since we're not up against the cap but both Greene and Scuderi are overpaid considering they bring absolutely nothing offensively. Adding a third costly defensive guy on a deal longer than two years would sink way too much money into that one area in my opinion.

Still, I'm all for grabbing Mitchell on a two year deal for now.

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08-15-2010, 10:01 AM
  #103
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It's pretty bad actually. Good teams usually don't pay defensive d-men that much unless they're legit shutdown guys. I don't mind it right now since we're not up against the cap but both Greene and Scuderi are overpaid considering they bring absolutely nothing offensively. Adding a third costly defensive guy on a deal longer than two years would sink way too much money into that one area in my opinion.

Still, I'm all for grabbing Mitchell on a two year deal for now.
I disagree. I do want Mitchell on this team as well but I don't think Greene and Scuderi are overpaid. Scuderi and Greene are solid players. The guy stopped and dropped in front of the net at the closing moments of Game 6 to block 4 shots and save the game. The next year, he leaves for LA and Penguins get outsted in the playoffs Their lack of defense gets blamed on the earlier than expected exit. I love Game 6 of the finals when Scuderi dropped to his knees to save four shots in the final moments in front of the net.

Greene has had a key role in lowering the shots allowed. We went from one of the worst teams in shots allowed to a huge improvement.

Defense wins cups. I'd pay for this because its what wins games. You may not hear a lot about them during the games, but that's because they do their job and its not as exciting.

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Old
08-15-2010, 10:24 AM
  #104
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Hey, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to trade any of them right now. They're important parts of our team. I'm just saying that committing like 10 million in cap space to three, although solid, one-dimensional defensive guys on more than a short-term basis shouldn't be the plan. They need to bring some puck moving capability, outlet pass competence or be legit shutdown guys to be worth 3 mill and above once we're up against the cap. Just being defensively solid alone isn't gonna cut it.

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08-15-2010, 10:28 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
It's pretty bad actually. Good teams usually don't pay defensive d-men that much unless they're legit shutdown guys. I don't mind it right now since we're not up against the cap but both Greene and Scuderi are overpaid considering they bring absolutely nothing offensively. Adding a third costly defensive guy on a deal longer than two years would sink way too much money into that one area in my opinion.

Still, I'm all for grabbing Mitchell on a two year deal for now.
On the open market, Jeff Finger gets $3.5MM. Defensive d-men get paid and Mitchell is a good one. If not for the injury, he's signed back on July 1st.

When Greene is healthy, you'll have Doughty,Johnson, Rookie as d-men with offensive skills and then Scuderi, Greene and Mitchell. Seems balanced to me.

After missing out on Kovy, I wanted to see Dean sign Sutton to replace O'Donnell. I figure Poni/Frolov is a lateral move so simply replacing O'Donnell with a better player would make this team better than last season. Well, Mitchell is better than Sutton so I will be very pleased if the rumors actually come to fruition this time.

With everyone healthy, this team will be be better with a Mitchell signing. Goaltending will be much better with Bernier in and Ersberg out. Still, this team will only be marginally better than last year unless the current young guys take their game to another level.

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08-15-2010, 10:33 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
On the open market, Jeff Finger gets $3.5MM. Defensive d-men get paid and Mitchell is a good one. If not for the injury, he's signed back on July 1st.

When Greene is healthy, you'll have Doughty,Johnson, Rookie as d-men with offensive skills and then Scuderi, Greene and Mitchell. Seems balanced to me.

After missing out on Kovy, I wanted to see Dean sign Sutton to replace O'Donnell. I figure Poni/Frolov is a lateral move so simply replacing O'Donnell with a better player would make this team better than last season. Well, Mitchell is better than Sutton so I will be very pleased if the rumors actually come to fruition this time.

With everyone healthy, this team will be be better with a Mitchell signing. Goaltending will be much better with Bernier in and Ersberg out. Still, this team will only be marginally better than last year unless the current young guys take their game to another level.
Good take on the situation. I agree.

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08-15-2010, 10:37 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Good take on the situation. I agree.
Thanks. I just feel that you and I are not fans of pinning most of the season's hopes on current players getting even better. There is a ceiling these guys will max out at and you can't just say that because a guy is 21, he's going to keep getting better and better.

I do think that adding Bernier will be a big deal though as there should be no issues with goalie fatigue this season. I really want this Mitchell signing to happen though as this team really lacks an a-hole on the blueline.

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Old
08-15-2010, 11:02 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by nK View Post
We do? Greene at $2.95M and Scuderi at $3.4M isn't bad at all.
Yes, paying a #5/#6 bottom pairing defensemen almost 3 million a year is bad business. Green is a warrior but not worth 3. Maybe if he had some chemistry with JJ it would be different but that's a terrible contract.

Scuderi is fine becuase he plays on our top pairing with DD.

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Old
08-15-2010, 11:20 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
Hey, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to trade any of them right now. They're important parts of our team. I'm just saying that committing like 10 million in cap space to three, although solid, one-dimensional defensive guys on more than a short-term basis shouldn't be the plan. They need to bring some puck moving capability, outlet pass competence or be legit shutdown guys to be worth 3 mill and above once we're up against the cap. Just being defensively solid alone isn't gonna cut it.
True, but we have to overpay somewhere to make the team attractive and to advance. I think that we went the opposite direction by having a history of high scoring when 99 was here and were never truly a defensive team. So now we're going the other way. I would like to see a PMD get in here too, but we gotta start somewhere.

I don't know..I'm guessing but I wonder if the personality of players who are not superstar scorers are easier to deal w/ in the dressing room and are more stable upstairs. I think that's partially why DL has passed on players who can score but are just 'not the right fit'. It might just be easier to build on more stable ground. I think scorers are harder to keep because they're wanting all the extra cash and prestige that goes with the goals. Afterall, that's what draws fans. Just musing...

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08-15-2010, 11:34 AM
  #110
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I wonder why this gaborik thing keeps coming out as a possible solution.... The chances of the rangers signing Kovy is really really slim unless they offer a ridiculous contract with a 8+ caphit.

Assuming NJ wont go too high on a offer, why would DL give up JJ +, when they could give a pretty big offer to Kovy themselves with the same caphit as gaborik? It just seems like it goes against what DL was saying that he didnt want kovys caphit too high to sign the other core guys, yet we would entertain bringing in gaborik at a high caphit for the next 4 years, and lose one of the so called core guys.

Maybe its the years on the gaborik contract vs what Kovy is looking for...but just doesnt make sense in my opinion.

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08-15-2010, 11:59 AM
  #111
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Dancing boy says that the Kings offered 2 years to Mitchell and he wants 3. Anyone else worried that Dean won't be able to close another UFA signing?
Who is Dancing boy?

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08-15-2010, 12:01 PM
  #112
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Who is Dancing boy?
Matt Barry

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:04 PM
  #113
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Mitchell is 33....of course he wants 3 years, that would probably be the last contract he signs...but if I am the Kings and say the way he played before he got hurt, I would give him the 3.

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:11 PM
  #114
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Hockeylivewire

Just informed LA isn't in on Kaberle

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:18 PM
  #115
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Some things never change. People ***** when he signs guys who have had injury problems and they ***** when he doesnt sign guys who have had injury problems.
I've never once *****ed about Dean signing a guy with a history of health problems here, or on any board. I really don't believe in the whole, "he's been injured before, so he will definatley be injured again" way of thinking. Maybe because I'm a former player and know it just bad luck when you get hurt, not because your body is more fragile than the next guy.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 08-15-2010 at 03:49 PM. Reason: watch it with the flaming
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08-15-2010, 12:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
Hockeylivewire

Just informed LA isn't in on Kaberle
OMG! What would we do without Hockeylivewire!

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MIDSHIPMAN View Post
Yes, paying a #5/#6 bottom pairing defensemen almost 3 million a year is bad business. Green is a warrior but not worth 3. Maybe if he had some chemistry with JJ it would be different but that's a terrible contract.
I disagree 100%

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:43 PM
  #118
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I was thinking about this the other day...reminds me of Calgary saying they can't afford all there defenseman, trading Phaneuf and his 6 million and then signing White and Stajan for a combined amount of...drum roll....6 million...

We traded Visnovsky and signed Stoll and Greene to contracts that equal the exact same amount. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Greene....but now looking at it Stoll is now overpaid and about to be replaced by Schenn or Loktionov and Greene, as much as we love him, is making quite a bit of money. But, I guess it comes back to what is happening, we have to overpay to keep guys in SoCal.

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08-15-2010, 12:44 PM
  #119
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What if, and this is hypothetically speaking but what if Simmonds was no longer a King? Then it would be a different line up. Even adding the forward that would hypothetically coming back this way.
Hypothetically speaking of course.
Hypothetically, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. He's got a ton of value, you have to give to get, and you have a kid waiting in the wings who can potentially take his place in Clifford. If you have to move Simmonds to get a stud winger, you do it.

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The thing is, Brown is a happily married guy raising two kids who bleeds purple. It is hard for me to see the Kings trading the guy they hope everyone of the kids ends up becoming. Simmonds, on the other hand, likes the life of a single, professional athlete just a little too much. If it is between Brown and Simmonds, Dustin isn't going anywhere.
Trading Brown would be a blow to the culture Lombardi and Co. are trying to build. It's not happening.

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08-15-2010, 12:45 PM
  #120
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I would think your pay scale is based on the degree in which you perform your job or position, not the job or position you play.
Shut down defencemen that make it an extremely difficult task to score when they are on the ice I would think would be as important as any other position if not more so...especially in the post-season. It makes no sense to me that to put a cap on a certain position. Paying for job performance makes more "business sense" to me than job title.

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08-15-2010, 12:45 PM
  #121
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I was thinking about this the other day...reminds me of Calgary saying they can't afford all there defenseman, trading Phaneuf and his 6 million and then signing White and Stajan for a combined amount of...drum roll....6 million...

We traded Visnovsky and signed Stoll and Greene to contracts that equal the exact same amount. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Greene....but we could've just kept Lubo since he had to overpay for Greene and Stoll.
And then what? Who's our 2nd line center? Handzus? Who's our tough as nails defenseman? Lombardi traded an A for two B's. Works out better.

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08-15-2010, 12:47 PM
  #122
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I edited my post Reaper and took back some of what I said...I meant to speak more about the salary of both and how it combines to same amount as Lubo and how we had to overpay Stoll//Greene to keep them here.

In terms of #2 center, Stoll is not it. Schenn, Loktionov or a UFA will be the answer soon.

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08-15-2010, 12:48 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I was thinking about this the other day...reminds me of Calgary saying they can't afford all there defenseman, trading Phaneuf and his 6 million and then signing White and Stajan for a combined amount of...drum roll....6 million...

We traded Visnovsky and signed Stoll and Greene to contracts that equal the exact same amount. Don't get me wrong, I love Matt Greene....but now looking at it Stoll is now overpaid and about to be replaced by Schenn or Loktionov and Greene, as much as we love him, is making quite a bit of money. But, I guess it comes back to what is happening, we have to overpay to keep guys in SoCal.
If Stoll is overpaid, what wold you say a gritty, 2-way hockey playing center who excels at face-offs and can play the point on the PP and get you in the ballpark of 50 points is worth? Just curious how much you think he's over paid. What would you give him?

Also, in this scenario you mention of Lubo being traded for Greene and Stoll, are you taking into consideration that 2 roster spots are being filled for the same money as the previous 1 occupied by Lubo? But Stoll is being overpaid eh? Kind of important factor to think about when running a team with a salary cap don't you think?


Last edited by Anjae11Eden: 08-15-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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Old
08-15-2010, 12:51 PM
  #124
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Yes, paying a #5/#6 bottom pairing defensemen almost 3 million a year is bad business. Green is a warrior but not worth 3. Maybe if he had some chemistry with JJ it would be different but that's a terrible contract.

Scuderi is fine becuase he plays on our top pairing with DD.
False. You are talking about a guy who was handed an "A" before even putting on a Kings sweater. If management didn't want to reward and promote the "Tattooed Ass" program, I think he would be captain over Dustin Brown. If you value locker room presence and "glue guys", than you realize that Greene is more than just a bottom pairing defenseman.

He is among the leaders in hits for a defensemen and by far the best on the Kings. He was locked up with a deal that takes him through some UFA seasons. Based on his play since signing that deal, he would easily make more than $2.95MM on the open market.

The guys in his salary range last season were Salvador, Corvo, Wiz, Staios and Tyutin. Are those guys head and shoulders above Greene? I'd say no. Tyutin maybe but he will be making $3.4MM in real dollars after next season and his contract will only take him to age 29 while Greene is locked up until age 31. Also, Greene is still making $2.75MM in real dollars for this upcoming season so the $2.95MM is cap hit.

It's a good contract and completely fair. It was scary at the time it was signed but now it looks like a good move. Don't forget that he is the other half of the "Make players come to LA to train/pal around in the Summer" along with Brown.

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:51 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I edited my post Reaper and took back some of what I said...I meant to speak more about the salary of both and how it combines to same amount as Lubo and how we had to overpay Stoll//Greene to keep them here.

In terms of #2 center, Stoll is not it. Schenn, Loktionov or a UFA will be the answer soon.
Loktionov is too small to be considered a center at the NHL level. He's like Moller, destined to be a winger.

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