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Tortorella's successes so far

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Old
08-15-2010, 12:48 PM
  #151
haohmaru
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There's NO WAY that Torts is on a 10 or 20 game leash. He's not going anywhere unless this team is out of it by the All Star break - which I don't see happening.

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08-15-2010, 01:55 PM
  #152
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08-09

Renney 31-23-7 .566 winning %.
Tortorella 12-7-2 .619 winning %.

Late season surge takes Rangers into the playoffs. Round 1 loss to Capitals in 7 after Rangers were up in series 3-1. The team seemed in way over its head though.

09-10

With arguably a lot better team on paper--at least offensively--with all summer to prepare and with his boot camp which was going to make sure everyone was in tip top condition and the implementation of his safe is death attack system the Rangers went 38-33-11 with a .530 winning % and missed the playoffs for the first time in 4 seasons. Renney's .566 from 08-09 would have easily put us in the playoffs in 09-10. Tortorella's % nosediving .089.

Injuries played no significant factor in either season. Hard to argue that Tortorella is the better coach at this point than Renney is or was. Numbers don't suggest that at all. Renney's defensive minded teams IMO were more fun to watch (especially when Jagr was here) than Tortorella's attack motivated team last year. Neither coach is good at matching lines. If anything Tortorella seems to even juggle lines even quicker than Renney did and Renney did it a lot.

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08-16-2010, 12:45 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
The only success Tortarella has had as the Rangers coach is making himself look like an ass in the media. You want to give this guy credit for a youth movement???? This guy would like nothing better than to fill his cubbard with guys with "jam", lmao. He's a terrible coach that can only win with a team stacked with talent, and that my friends is not your NY Rangers.
Now granted he has only been here for 100 games, so I do not necessarily blame him for anything wrong with the organization, but Staal, cally, dubi, girardi, were already with the big club, and AA and MDZ were known to be on their way.
Tortarella crushes confidence in young players and its no surprise to me that TB cut him loose when they went into retool mode. If Tom Renney had 2-3 more years to finish retooling this team, and then we brought in Torts i'd be a little more positive, because I do believe Torts is a finisher and can win the cup ala mike keenan, but he is not one to build a franchise and my biggest fear now is that I'm going to be watching a team full of average talent try and run and gun with the big dogs and before we all know it Hank will be 33 and we'll still be cupless looking in a new direction...
If someone only could have passed the memo along to coaches like Bobby Knight or Paul "Bear" Bryant, these men would have had at least some success as a College basketball/Football coaches.
No...This organization's problem starts from the owner and pretty much ends there. Can't blame Sather. Dolan could take interest in winning and try to figure out there needs to be a change. So you give no credit to Tortorella for Tampa Bay's Stanley Cup run? You give him no credit for molding that team into a Stanley Cup winner. Who gets it? Renney?
But alright, I guess it sux for the team that he hurt the feelings of Larry Brooks or spent the night Coaching a hockey game and having to be responsible for the Caps security over at the Verizon center.

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08-16-2010, 01:48 AM
  #154
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Notice how after the hot start last season you didn't hear Micheletti spew about how "the difficult training camp makes the Rangers the best conditioned team in the league and let's see them take advantage of it here in the 3rd."

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08-16-2010, 03:56 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
There's NO WAY that Torts is on a 10 or 20 game leash. He's not going anywhere unless this team is out of it by the All Star break - which I don't see happening.
Why do you believe that? If there is another long stretch like last year, there is nowhere the attention is going to be focused other than on Tortorella and all his excuses won't save him. He got his get out of jail free card last year and it saved him his job even though for 2/3 of the season the team was a confused system-less mess. I doubt he gets such a long benefit of the doubt this year, especially as last season's lesson of every point counting is still fresh. Even Sather can't afford another 50-60 wasted games.

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08-16-2010, 07:17 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
If someone only could have passed the memo along to coaches like Bobby Knight or Paul "Bear" Bryant, these men would have had at least some success as a College basketball/Football coaches.
No...This organization's problem starts from the owner and pretty much ends there. Can't blame Sather. Dolan could take interest in winning and try to figure out there needs to be a change. So you give no credit to Tortorella for Tampa Bay's Stanley Cup run? You give him no credit for molding that team into a Stanley Cup winner. Who gets it? Renney?
But alright, I guess it sux for the team that he hurt the feelings of Larry Brooks or spent the night Coaching a hockey game and having to be responsible for the Caps security over at the Verizon center.
You guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
I'm not saying torts is a bad coach and I am certainly not blaming him for anything wrong with the Rangers. The Rangers problems all stem from personel and the lack of good nhl calibre talent.
Of course I give Torts credit for Tampa's Stanley cup, what i didn't give him credit for is building the Team. Torts is a guy that can take talented players and drive them to raise there games, ala mike keenan, I have nothing against him, I just dont think a team that should be concentrating on developing youth should have a coach who in my opinion is designed for winning a cup once all the pieces are in place.

The breakdown in this thread is do to the OP statement about Torts successes so far. Like I said, while I dont blame him for the lack of talent on the team. I also don't see anything thats happened in the past 16 months that can be called a success.
We've all set are standards way too low if call ups to good young players are deemed success the coach.

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08-16-2010, 09:15 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Bob,
Again, your joking right? You expect me to believe that when you say Renney coached this team for 6 years you were talking about his 20 games at the end of 03-04, and his lockout season. Your proving yourself to be nothing more than an arguementitive clown.
It's simple math. 6 years. What's wrong with you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
By your own assesment of coaching John Tortarella has now coached the Rangers through two seasons , resulting in no playoff appearences. Enough to officially consider him a downgrade from the previous regime and infact taking the team backwards.
No, the same way Renney coached the end of 04 and missed the PO's, Tortorella coached the end of 09 and got to the PO's. Same standard.

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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
...the only problem with the TR spin machine you speak of was that fans like you couldn't endure a full on rebuild that would result in continued success, one taste of the playoffs again Renney gave you, and you were clamoring for a cup. The impatience of the management of this team is sad, but its jokers in the fanbase booing at games when there team is on the rise after years of misery that makes it even worse.
I've had a cup. I'm clamoring for accountability and passion. I have seen none for over 10 years.

Renney was fine while Jagr was here but I got tired of it, a lot of fans got tired of it, and the locker room was tired of it after more than half a decade.

Booing? Who the heck are you talking to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
And Again Bob, as for your quote comments, as its been clearly pointed out to you multiple times-
PLAYERS DO NOT BASH THEIR COACHES IN MEDIA AND REMAIN AROUND LONG!!!!!
It doesn't take a genius to watch Torts rip young guys in the media after a game and deduce that it hurts their confidence in their game and their place in the organization.
You want to rip vets getting paid millions, fine, but kids in their first few years watching bloated underperforming contracts in front of them trying to battle to be nhlers? cmon now, the game is about confidence
This is correct in as far as you go but you don't have to either a) bash or b) praise. Listen to the players. There is nuance in what they say at times. The Christensen quote is the one that abolishes your black and white view of athlete's quotes.

Also, some personalities respond well to challenges. These are the players you want with you in the trenches, not the nancy boys who shrink from responsibility.

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08-16-2010, 10:15 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
robruckus you've distorted what I've said. How many years does it take to match your overwhelming wisdom in hockey? You're nothing more than an elitist. I've tried to have a friendly argument with you but you insist on insults of intellect rather than polite disagreement. You're probably the most outrageously critical poster I've ever seen on any board, and that's coming from someone who's made tens of thousands of posts and hundreds of threads online. Don't bother responding, I'm not wasting any more of my time responding to you.
I haven't distorted a single thing that you said.

Unlike you, I would never go into a forum where people have far more knowledge and experience than I do, and try and act like I know just as much as they do. Especially if I openly admit I'm relatively new to the subject.

I'm an elitist because your posts are so elementary in their thought process that I think it's necessary to question your knowledge on the subject? Here's an idea; instead of starting so many threads that prove just how little you know, sit back, read, and gain a better understanding of things.

Again, you make it all about your feelings being hurt and the fact that you don't like me confronting your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Instead of getting so bent out of shape about it, make a counter argument. Something that's actually relevant and proves that you DO know what you're talking about.

You haven't be able to do that.

All you've said are generic things and then tried to twist this into some pity party where I'm supposed to feel bad for questioning if you know what you're talking about.

I would never sit here and say that I know as much about the game of hockey as many of the other posters around here.

And I would never start a ridiculous threading lauding the successes of a coach that hasn't achieved anything yet with the Rangers, and then try and claim that I'm as intelligent when it comes to the Rangers and hockey as anyone else.

Instead of taking things so personally and getting bent out of shape about me questioning your knowledge, why don't you prove me wrong and construct an argument that does so?

Judging by the comments in your OP, and all the ones you've made in this thread since then, I'm going to assume you're not all that capable of doing that though.

If you want people to respect your opinion on a subject, you've got to earn it. Just because you have one, doesn't make it credible.




Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Even so--Rob's premise that Tortorella has not had any real success is dead on. He is not being judged on incorporating more youth in the lineup. At best that is way down on his job description. He was brought in to take the team forward and farther than they had under Renney. Changing it now to 'Oh! He's developing youth' is just spinning the team's failure last year and not making the playoffs last year was a definite step back. And by the way Renney's time could generally be considered a success. He took a team that many (if not most) thought would be a lottery team and took it to the playoffs 3 years in a row and twice into round 2--a team that had not been in the playoffs for 7 straight seasons.

And bringing up Renney's first 20 games at the end of 03-04 (not that you did but someone else certainly did) is unfair considering that right after Renney takes over the great majority of the veteran corps was traded off for picks and prospects. They included Leetch, Kovalev, Nedved, Barnaby, Rucinsky, DeVries, Malakhov, Carter and Simon and the only significant player coming back was Jagr. Lindros at the end of his rope with a concussion and Messier playing his last season. Not surprising that Renney's team went 5-15.

Renney may not have been a great coach but he was a good one and he was a class act. Tortorella as of yet hasn't shown he's better at all. Hopefully he will do that but I've got some doubts.
Yeah exactly. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that that's what this thread was about. Tortorella's successes so far. What exactly has he succeeded at? Nothing. That's why I doin't understan sitting here and applauding him for not doing anything.

Especially after reading the OP and other Torts supporters since then, it's just a whole bunch of reaching at straws.


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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I'm confused by your line of thought here. If other teams and coaches do something its not a success...thats what I think you're implying but feel free to correct me. So, if half the league makes the playoffs, is making the playoffs a sign of success? I'd guess it is based on you saying that Renney "got the most out of his teams" and the only difference between his teams and last year's team is that they made the playoffs. Neither team threatened to take the cup or the conference at any point. Renney's teams ranged from 4 to 6 more wins than Torts' team this year, thats not a huge difference. Where exactly is the line then? If 16 teams do something and you're one of them its a success, but if all teams do something (and I'm not convinced every team is infusing youth like we are) its' not. What is 20 teams accomplish the same goal? Is that a sign of success? What about 18 or 24? This is a very subjective way of looking at things which suggests to me that you're searching for points to back up an opinion you've already formed, and not the other way around.

Also, I fail to comprehend how you can not credit a coach for the success of a team's youth players. If the coach doesn't get credit for infusing the right players into the right situations at the right time in their development, who does? Just because Renney did it too doesn't mean its not a sign of success or a positive for this franchise. Good for Renney, he's smart at managing young players too. The fact is we didn't spend millions on free agents this year compared to other years because we have young players who play important roles that may have been filled through the FA. If MDZ wasn't handled properly do you think Sather would have signed a big money, puck moving D man? I do. Do you think that contract would be smart? I don't. If Dubi didn't progress this year and Torts didn't play him at LW with success, would we have spent big money to improve our LW depth? I think we would have. Yes, its partly due to MDZ and Dubi's skill and their effort that we saved that theoretical money, but its not just them who deserve credit, its the coach too for putting them in a situation where they can succeed.

EDIT: Forgot this. Renney got the most out of a better team. A team built with players for every line who weren't totally in above their heads, a team with a Vally who could actually play NHL hockey, a team with arguably one of the best scorers in NHL history. Torts fell one game short of your arbitrary success line with, in my opinion, a worse team. So, how does that lead to the fact that he didn't get the most out of them? Wouldn't getting the most out of a worse team be illustrated by doing slightly worse...which he did?

You're definitely misunderstanding here.

It has nothing to do with how you're trying to skew it. The point is that people are trying to say that one of Torts' successes is this youth movement. This thread is about success so far from Tortorella. It's not as if the youth movement hasn't been going on since the lockout (as far as putting lots of stock in drafting, and trying to develop a core group of players). This is something that had already started under Renney, would be going on still if Renney was here, and would be going on like it is now if there were someone other than Tortorella back there.

It's one of the more obvious things in the game today that it's what must be done in order to build a winning organization.

If everyone is doing that across the league, and it was going on before Tortorella was here, and will be going on when he's gone, how can we chalk that up as a success by Tortorella? Can he be considered a part of that? Absolutely. But to praise him as if this wouldn't be occurring without him is not something that I understand or agree with.

Your playoffs comparison isn't really a good one but I think that's because you misunderstood my point.

The whole is making the playoffs a success or not is a different argument and one that many people have many different opinions on. I always feel like making the playoffs is the goal. If you add in the fact that Tortorella's predecessor made the post season 4 years in a row (AKA every year he was head coach while here) and then you consider that in Tortorella's first year the team missed the playoffs, that's not an improvement. No matter how you look at it. The "developing youth" argument can't be used as an excuse for Tortorella, because as mentioned, the same thing was going on under Renney.

Also, Renney's 06-07 team definitely did challenge in the east. We were 7 seconds away from a 3-2 series lead on Buffalo, which would have been 1 game away from the Eastern Conference Finals. So to me, that's a team that challenged.

Your last paragraph is pretty off base. You're basically saying that if you and every other kid behave on a school trip, you should be singled out and praised because you were one of them. For what? There was nothing that set you apart. If you're going to be singled out and have people pat you on the back, you need to do something that exceeds the norm. This isn't little league baseball. We're not all getting trophies even if we lose.

We didn't spend millions on free agents because Tortorella is here infusing youth? Really?

We didn't spend millions on free agents because we didn't have any salary cap space. That's the short and long of it.

If Renney or any other coach were here it would've been exactly the same. Tortorella isn't doing anything above and beyond with our youth that he deserves these accolades for.

You also believe that if we had the money and Plekanec or some other top flight center was available that Sather wouldn't have signed him because Tortorella has changed the direction of this organization?

We DID bring in a LW in Frolov. It's arguable that MDZ WASN'T handled properly. Tortorella even stated so himself.

Our lack of moves this offseason had way more to do with our financial constraints than anything relating to how much Torts has improved our roster with his stellar coaching skills.

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08-16-2010, 10:24 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
It's simple math. 6 years. What's wrong with you?
The fact that you insist of trying to make this point correct instead of just saying you made a mistake makes everything else that you say utterly worthless.

Renney was here for 20 games the year before the lockout and then THERE WAS NO HOCKEY THE YEAR AFTER. NONE.

Players weren't coming to the training center and working on break out plays and defensive zone coverages. There was no practicing going out.

Quit acting like this was a year in Renney's coaching tenure.

We get it. We understand how long six years is. The fact is you're trying to use this to make it sound like Renney was here for ages and that it was more time that he had to make this team and organization better.

You think you're being witty and clever or something, but it just makes you look pretty foolish.

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08-16-2010, 10:45 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
The fact that you insist of trying to make this point correct instead of just saying you made a mistake makes everything else that you say utterly worthless.

Renney was here for 20 games the year before the lockout and then THERE WAS NO HOCKEY THE YEAR AFTER. NONE.

Players weren't coming to the training center and working on break out plays and defensive zone coverages. There was no practicing going out.

Quit acting like this was a year in Renney's coaching tenure.

We get it. We understand how long six years is. The fact is you're trying to use this to make it sound like Renney was here for ages and that it was more time that he had to make this team and organization better.

You think you're being witty and clever or something, but it just makes you look pretty foolish.
It's the way I see it. 6 years of my life.

No other way around it. Argue til you're blue in the face it doesn't change facts.

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08-16-2010, 10:59 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
It's the way I see it. 6 years of my life.

No other way around it. Argue til you're blue in the face it doesn't change facts.

It was still only 5 if that's how you see it, and it does change the facts. Because what you're presenting are not facts. They're your manipulated view on it.

The guy coached the Rangers for 4 years. 4 years that they made the playoffs.

Your boy Tortorella is so far 0 for 1. Get a clue Bob.

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08-16-2010, 11:26 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
It was still only 5 if that's how you see it, and it does change the facts. Because what you're presenting are not facts. They're your manipulated view on it.

The guy coached the Rangers for 4 years. 4 years that they made the playoffs.

Your boy Tortorella is so far 0 for 1. Get a clue Bob.
Whatever. His first stint ended out of playoffs. Came in and went 5-15. Eat it and choke on it.

Why are you defending that butterscotch nimbus in the "Tortorella appreciation" thread anyway? Go make your own thread.

Heh. Tom Renney. The Toyota Corolla of coaches.

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08-16-2010, 11:51 AM
  #163
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Seriously ?
A coach gets blamed for an entire season when he coached 20 games ?
Conversly a coach gets credit for the team when he coached 21 games ?
Little bit ridiculous if you ask me, especially when you add all the other things that happened in both years.
Such as the team being blown up in Renney's 20 games first year AND the additions to the team in Tortorella's.
I just had to comment on the above statement.

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08-16-2010, 12:53 PM
  #164
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Renney was a good coach, but he was not great. The team would struggle to just make the playoffs and then things would fall apart...and the hockey was zzzzzzz. Torts' style is more exciting, but still no playoff success.. but I'm patient.

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08-16-2010, 01:01 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Nyrfan25 View Post
Seriously ?
A coach gets blamed for an entire season when he coached 20 games ?
Conversly a coach gets credit for the team when he coached 21 games ?
Little bit ridiculous if you ask me, especially when you add all the other things that happened in both years.
Such as the team being blown up in Renney's 20 games first year AND the additions to the team in Tortorella's.
I just had to comment on the above statement.
We either count it or you don't. We should do it for both the same way. Since the fellas we're talking about were "head coach" at the time, it counts as a statistic. Why whitewash one record and tar and feather the other? It's not blaming, it's what happened.

What's more, TR was assistant coach of that 03-04 team all year. Even Sather's record behind the bench that season was better. TR was as happy as the fans were to watch the Jaromir Jagr show for the seasons post lockout. I think he gets a bit too much credit for trotting JJ out all the time. Kinda funny that as soon as JJ left, TR got shown the door pretty much right afterward.

And of course, you don't have to qualify what you say - just say it. Pleasure making your acquaintance.

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08-16-2010, 01:33 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
Renney was a good coach, but he was not great. The team would struggle to just make the playoffs and then things would fall apart...and the hockey was zzzzzzz. Torts' style is more exciting, but still no playoff success.. but I'm patient.
more exciting ? im sorry i dont see it.

torts hockey is boring hockey like renney hockey was. in fact, imo, any team that cant score goals for an entire season is boring. i love close games, just not for months at a time.

the only exciting things about this team are gaboriks goals, henriks saves and the torts pressers where he shows his hypocrisy, anger issues and his general lack of respect for anyone not part of the nyr staff.

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08-16-2010, 01:36 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Whatever. His first stint ended out of playoffs. Came in and went 5-15. Eat it and choke on it.

Why are you defending that butterscotch nimbus in the "Tortorella appreciation" thread anyway? Go make your own thread.

Heh. Tom Renney. The Toyota Corolla of coaches.
Serious question...are you capable of formulating the thoughts to realize what was going on with the Rangers when Renney took over in 2004?

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08-16-2010, 01:51 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
Renney was a good coach, but he was not great. The team would struggle to just make the playoffs and then things would fall apart...and the hockey was zzzzzzz. Torts' style is more exciting, but still no playoff success.. but I'm patient.
I don't see Tortorella's style as more exciting though it certainly is more random and haphazard.

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08-16-2010, 01:54 PM
  #169
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Is this team more exciting because of the coaching change, or because we actually have a kid on the back end who can generate offense, and a guy up front who can pot 40 goals with ease?

Didn't hear any of this "boring hockey" nonsense when Straka/Nylander/Jagr was tearing up the league.

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08-16-2010, 01:56 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Serious question...are you capable of formulating the thoughts to realize what was going on with the Rangers when Renney took over in 2004?
Why does it matter? People who came into this thread bashing Tortorella don't give a damn about extenuating circumstances, so I think we have to be fair to our previous coach, too.

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08-16-2010, 01:59 PM
  #171
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IMO last season was pretty boring. Apart from the beginning and the end we floundered and Tortorella I think was a big part of it--his 'we're going to do it my way and only my way' and his failure to adjust to what other teams were doing. Maybe there's something skewed in my thinking but that's pretty much how I saw it. The Rangers weren't able to dominate other teams with Torts' uptempo offensive approach. Other teams exploited our weaknesses--especially on the defensive side of things. All in all last year for me was a disappointment and that was clear long before we went on the tear at the end.

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08-16-2010, 02:18 PM
  #172
BobSantos
 
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
IMO last season was pretty boring. Apart from the beginning and the end we floundered and Tortorella I think was a big part of it--his 'we're going to do it my way and only my way' and his failure to adjust to what other teams were doing. Maybe there's something skewed in my thinking but that's pretty much how I saw it. The Rangers weren't able to dominate other teams with Torts' uptempo offensive approach. Other teams exploited our weaknesses--especially on the defensive side of things. All in all last year for me was a disappointment and that was clear long before we went on the tear at the end.
I can certainly see how you see it that way.

I think that, based on his previous success, offseason acquisitions and the developing youth of our team, we will see a pretty good improvement this year.

The offense will make more sense with defined roles assigned last year and the strategic acquisitions that we made to bolster weaknesses (both at the end of last year and this offseason).

So, count me as optimistic for the coming season.

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08-16-2010, 02:35 PM
  #173
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
I can certainly see how you see it that way.

I think that, based on his previous success, offseason acquisitions and the developing youth of our team, we will see a pretty good improvement this year.

The offense will make more sense with defined roles assigned last year and the strategic acquisitions that we made to bolster weaknesses (both at the end of last year and this offseason).

So, count me as optimistic for the coming season.
I'm not so sure.

It seems to me the more talent you have the more you can get away with not adjusting. The Rangers talent level right now is not that great and they need to adjust to what other teams do. This is a particular weakness not just of Tortorella but Renney as well. Things may be different in a few years when hopefully a lot of the talent we have in the pipeline are regulars on the Rangers.

Again I think the Rangers are going to have to be better for Tortorella to stay. I don't think you go two seasons as a coach anymore and expect to keep your job.

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08-16-2010, 02:39 PM
  #174
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Why does it matter? People who came into this thread bashing Tortorella don't give a damn about extenuating circumstances, so I think we have to be fair to our previous coach, too.
Tortorella benefitted greatly from the additions of Antropov, Avery, and Morris when he first came aboard.

Renney took over in 2004 for a team that was selling every movable asset that wasnt nailed down.

Not only should extenuating circumstances be considered, but also the fact that those 2 circumstances were about as different as they come.

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08-16-2010, 02:42 PM
  #175
Nyrfan25
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We either count it or you don't. We should do it for both the same way. Since the fellas we're talking about were "head coach" at the time, it counts as a statistic. Why whitewash one record and tar and feather the other? It's not blaming, it's what happened.

What's more, TR was assistant coach of that 03-04 team all year. Even Sather's record behind the bench that season was better. TR was as happy as the fans were to watch the Jaromir Jagr show for the seasons post lockout. I think he gets a bit too much credit for trotting JJ out all the time. Kinda funny that as soon as JJ left, TR got shown the door pretty much right afterward.

And of course, you don't have to qualify what you say - just say it. Pleasure making your acquaintance.
Is this response for real ?
Your entire first paragraph is just, well ridiculous.
The fact that the team sold all of it's assists is meaningless ?
The teams record is Renney's fault, regardless of the structure ?
Add to that the idea that Tortorella received an improved team from that of his predecessor and went on to make the playoffs is all thanks to the coach change, all leads me to find ZERO merit to anything you post.
That is some of the most insane postings i have ever read here.
Then you go on to state he was an assistant coach, which he never was, what he was President of player development.

I am no fan of Tortorella but i am also not a foe, making up points in favor of him or against is just stupid.

At least post with some thought.

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