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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VI

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Old
08-16-2010, 01:23 PM
  #176
DIEHARD the King fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Because it is always a good idea to ignore an important part of the environment in which one must perform.

I can see the new mantra is going to be taking this lame PC statement made by Dean and hammering us with it over and over again. Chicago basically got one decent and one good kick at the can. They were LUCKY!!! If Pittsburgh had won their series against Montreal, it could have been an entirely different story and Blackhawk fans would be really pissed to be seeing a Stanley Cup Finalist dismantled right now.

Chicago won in the finals because the Flyer goaltending outsucked Niemi. That's pretty much the story of that series.

One could also argue that there is plenty of evidence that spending to the cap on stupid contracts fails just as badly as "cap space" and does much more long term damage. Have the NYR or Flyers been able to spend their way to a cup yet? Is it looking good for the Rangers in the near future? No, but Diehard you would have cheered as the team wasted millions in cap space in players like Gomez and Drury. Perhaps you should consider a move to Manhattan. Sather is your kind of GM.
For all DL's fiscal conservatism, I haven't seen alot of accomplishments, and one 6-game playoff run does not a contender make. I look at what he's said, that by year five we would be a perennial playoff contender and I dont see that either. The only team that seems to have had real cap problems so far just won the cup, and if you are telling me you wouldnt give what they gave to get the cup because you 'd rather have several chances to win rather than actually winning one, well I don't know how to respond to that other than with a shake of my head. One in the hand over two in the bush (excepting sex of course).

As for Chicago getting lucky, of course they did, as does every Stanley Cup winner. It takes nothing away from their Cup. Oh I forgot, maybe they will have it stripped from them because they played with a player with a questionable (under investigation) contract. Doubtful!

And we lost the cup because some dumb defenseman didn't put away his overly curved stick. Point is Chaicago has won a cup in reent history and we haven't and it doesn't look like year five is going to make us perennial contenders either.

For all that brain power at work over at TSC and Staples, why we aren't closer when DL said we would be is a valid question. And to hold someone to their own promises, comments and analysis is the best type of accountability there is, and after all DL is real big on accountability.

Let me know when Cap Space scores his first Hat trick or Playoff goal.

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08-16-2010, 01:34 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
For all DL's fiscal conservatism, I haven't seen alot of accomplishments, and one 6-game playoff run does not a contender make. I look at what he's said, that by year five we would be a perennial playoff contender and I dont see that either. The only team that seems to have had real cap problems so far just won the cup, and if you are telling me you wouldnt give what they gave to get the cup because you 'd rather have several chances to win rather than actually winning one, well I don't know how to respond to that other than with a shake of my head. One in the hand over two in the bush (excepting sex of course).

As for Chicago getting lucky, of course they did, as does every Stanley Cup winner. It takes nothing away from their Cup. Oh I forgot, maybe they will have it stripped from them because they played with a player with a questionable (under investigation) contract. Doubtful!

And we lost the cup because some dumb defenseman didn't put away his overly curved stick. Point is Chaicago has won a cup in reent history and we haven't and it doesn't look like year five is going to make us perennial contenders either.

For all that brain power at work over at TSC and Staples, why we aren't closer when DL said we would be is a valid question. And to hold someone to their own promises, comments and analysis is the best type of accountability there is, and after all DL is real big on accountability.

Let me know when Cap Space scores his first Hat trick or Playoff goal.
Haven't seen any accomplishments? By all accounts the team made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule according to most reasonable people.

Yes, I would rather have multiple kicks at the can than have one and get lucky. I think that is a better way to go. Hindsight is 20-20 and I can assure you they would be singing a different tune in Chicago today had they been up against M.A. Fleury instead of whatever that was the Flyers were sending out there.

I don't see anyone here that isn't holding Lombardi accountable. Year 4 arrived ahead of schedule in playoffs. Year 5 if they make the playoffs again is two years in a row. I do see someone that refuses to give credit where credit is due.

BTW, if the Kings actually do get younger this season you should expect some inconsistency, but the "team" will be better for it in the long run. I know you won't be able to see that though, so I thought I would point it out to you.

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08-16-2010, 01:47 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Haven't seen any accomplishments? By all accounts the team made the playoffs a year ahead of schedule according to most reasonable people.
.
I just want to point out that this team did not make the playoffs 'ahead of schedule.' In 2008-2009 they were on track to make the playoffs until their collapse at the end. 2009-2010 it was sort of a given that they were expected to make the playoffs.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/06/04/lombardi-on-goals/
Quote:
Hammond: In this last part of the interview with Dean Lombardi, he talks about his expectations for the Kings going forward…

Question: Your team’s basic goal this season, to make the playoffs, was pretty obvious.
http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/01/14...rdi-interview/

Quote:
Lombardi: I think now they’re playing with legitimate pressure and expectations. This is the first year I really felt we had a solid chance to be in the playoffs, and I certainly still do, but I think there was that element of them having to go out and do it. They got in first place, and now there’s expectations to stay in that hunt.

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Old
08-16-2010, 01:51 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post

Let me know when Cap Space scores his first Hat trick or Playoff goal.
Perfect!!

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Old
08-16-2010, 01:52 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
I just want to point out that this team did not make the playoffs 'ahead of schedule.' In 2008-2009 they were on track to make the playoffs until their collapse at the end. 2009-2010 it was sort of a given that they were expected to make the playoffs.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/06/04/lombardi-on-goals/


http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/01/14...rdi-interview/
These quotes are after the season started and we were already in a playoff position. Before the season started, we were not expected to make it.

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08-16-2010, 02:20 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by tantrum4 View Post
These quotes are after the season started and we were already in a playoff position. Before the season started, we were not expected to make it.
I'm assuming you missed the first quote I linked to?

Quote:
Hammond: In this last part of the interview with Dean Lombardi, he talks about his expectations for the Kings going forward…

Question: Your team’s basic goal this season, to make the playoffs, was pretty obvious.
I don't know about you, but 'basic goal' to me signifies that the playoffs - at a minimum - were expected.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...65019267_x.htm

Quote:
Coach Terry Murray expected his team to challenge for a playoff spot in just his second season in charge, but he didn't imagine the cohesion and maturity that pushed the Kings to a remarkable season.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/04/28...-expectations/

Quote:
Going into this season, the Kings had a clear, simple goal: make the playoffs.

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08-16-2010, 02:45 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
I'm assuming you missed the first quote I linked to?



I don't know about you, but 'basic goal' to me signifies that the playoffs - at a minimum - were expected.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...65019267_x.htm




http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/04/28...-expectations/
That's a pretty obvious response for a teams management to make going in to a season. Did you expect them to say they don't don't think we have a chance in hell to make the playoffs so the players might as well just slack off for the season? In almost every hockey publication before the season started, most of them had us missing the playoffs. And there was an interview with Lombardi where he said it won't be too disappointing even if we don't make it, just as long as the team improves from the year before. And no I'm not going to try to look it up.

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Old
08-16-2010, 03:15 PM
  #183
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Interesting topic of conversation and also several great interesting pov's imo.

To Diehard I would say that I have seen some amazing accomplishments in so far as building a team that is and will be very deep in goal and on the blue line for years to come. I wouldn't trade our back end(s) with any other team in the league so far as that goes.

My problem is that I simply don't see us as having enough legitimate talent up front to be an honest to goodness contender and I haven't seen DL do too much about it yet either. We can all point at how close we came to signing Kovy/Gabby/etc but we have yet to do so and so that is where I see us as having not improved.

I do think that we are closer to being a true contender and, if I am right we will take two steps closer before camp starts but then again, I have had the same feelings the past two years.

I think that Poniboy is less talented than Frolov and that we will see a significant drop off from our tertiary scoring as a result. Its debatable and also something that shouldn't make or break us at any rate. I only point it out to show that DL not only didn't reward loyalty in this situation (maybe rightly so depending on your opinion of Frolov) but he paid more than what his own comparable player was asking for in his replacement. I understand that DL has maintained the position that you are either a bleed purple guy or you are out but he also has built a reputation among his own players that he is an unfair negotiator.

Its tough to say which end is right but I can point to results as a sort of guide in that he has moved viable assets and received less for them in return than they appear to have been worth on the free market.

Again, for me its a tough call but if we sign a player here soon and then make a deal that has been being bounced around for awhile then we just might be set for an honest to goodness cup run and still have most of our young talent in tact both on the team and in our farm system so it might just be too early to tell at this point in time.

However, if we go into this coming season without having addressed two glaring holes on our team then I will only be able to draw the conclusion that DL has a plan but when it doesn't go exactly his way that he isn't truly prepared to do what it takes to improve the team beyond it.

Oh, WM's agent works for the same group as a good friend of mine, that is how I knew anything about WM this weekend. I am not auditioning to be anybody but myself and when I posted what I did I thought that it was common knowledge by then so sorry for any confusion.

Like I have said in the past, take anything that I post with enough salt to kill a snail. All I have as information beyond the norm is that I am friends with a few past players, management types from minor league orgs and a few agents who were past players for the most part.

I hear things from time to time but I would call my information shaky at best if that helps anything. If not who really cares, right?

I am an excellent source on several of our past players as my involvement in the game comes from the late 70's through to the late 90's and the Kings were my favorite team I knew and maintain friendships with a few of the old dogs. I also know players from other teams during that era so if you have any questions about anyone from that era let me know and if I know them or can help I will.

Other than that I am pretty much just as useless as anyone else here and more than most.

Hooray!

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Old
08-16-2010, 03:38 PM
  #184
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From Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra View Post
So i just heard on the radio in Vancouver (team1040) that the kings offered mitchell a 2 year deal. any truth to the rumor or is matt sekerke's (sp?) a tool?

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Old
08-16-2010, 03:40 PM
  #185
etherialone
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That has been being said since Friday of last week.

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Old
08-16-2010, 03:42 PM
  #186
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Thought it was only rumored before, and now saying offer is actually on the table

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Old
08-16-2010, 04:00 PM
  #187
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I was told and posted that the offer was made and that WM's agent just wanted to "give it a once over before getting back the Kings" and then bolted back to BC to try and give them a shot at matching/bettering the offer.

If what I heard was right WM wasn't really involved in the contract discussions much at all with us and that he is said to be an excellent guy who truly wants to put his injuries behind him and prove that he is 100% or better. He feels that he has learned where not to stick his neck out on the ice and how to play a smarter game. He thinks that by being more physical at the right time and situation that he will be able to be more effective.

Supposed to be a great kid and I hope that we are willing to be as flexible as we were with Poniboy with him as he would give us several more options all over the place and make our D allot better.

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08-16-2010, 04:05 PM
  #188
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I'd like to see him bring that nasty element that he always brought in Vancouver.

You didn't even have to touch Luongo for Mitchell, Bieksa, etc... to come after you.

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Old
08-16-2010, 04:10 PM
  #189
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I like the idea of him being smarter/more experienced in how he brings it and that is what he is saying I think. He can skate really well too. His concussion was pretty severe but players have come back from them and picked up where they left off in the past.

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Old
08-16-2010, 04:18 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
My problem is that I simply don't see us as having enough legitimate talent up front to be an honest to goodness contender and I haven't seen DL do too much about it yet either. We can all point at how close we came to signing Kovy/Gabby/etc but we have yet to do so and so that is where I see us as having not improved.

I do think that we are closer to being a true contender and, if I am right we will take two steps closer before camp starts but then again, I have had the same feelings the past two years.
I agree. Before we can see all of the pieces assembled I fully expect to see a trade or two involving our young defensemen and a prospect or two up front to try and upgrade the forwards. I don't know if that can happen prior to this season starting or not.

I think as far as the back end goes Lombardi had and has plan A, B, C, etc. to get a vet defenseman. Plan A was Martin, Plan B looks like Mitchell, Plan C is probably a trade, though I am sure Lombardi would like to fill that hole without giving up any assets.

At some point we have to let the kids play a little as well. Hickey and Voynov, and maybe others should get a taste of the NHL this coming season. I am kind of ok with waiting on the #2 center spot until we can get an idea regarding what Schenn is going to be all about in the NHL. The LW is a problem spot. Sooner or later I think the Kings will land a UFA.

I still would love for Dean to take a crack at Bobby Ryan with an offer sheet and solve that problem long term. IMO he would be an even better fit than Kovalchuk. Not Dean's style though and that sucks.

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08-16-2010, 04:24 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I still would love for Dean to take a crack at Bobby Ryan with an offer sheet and solve that problem long term. IMO he would be an even better fit than Kovalchuk. Not Dean's style though and that sucks.
He's saving those draft picks for Parise

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Old
08-16-2010, 04:27 PM
  #192
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He's saving those draft picks for Parise
I'm sure he is.

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Old
08-16-2010, 04:37 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I was told and posted that the offer was made and that WM's agent just wanted to "give it a once over before getting back the Kings" and then bolted back to BC to try and give them a shot at matching/bettering the offer.
Where did you hear that?

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Old
08-16-2010, 05:19 PM
  #194
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Go through my posts and you will see where I identify that piece of information. Sorry, don't want to keep repeating myself.

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08-16-2010, 05:38 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I was told and posted that the offer was made and that WM's agent just wanted to "give it a once over before getting back the Kings" and then bolted back to BC to try and give them a shot at matching/bettering the offer.

If what I heard was right WM wasn't really involved in the contract discussions much at all with us and that he is said to be an excellent guy who truly wants to put his injuries behind him and prove that he is 100% or better. He feels that he has learned where not to stick his neck out on the ice and how to play a smarter game. He thinks that by being more physical at the right time and situation that he will be able to be more effective.

Supposed to be a great kid and I hope that we are willing to be as flexible as we were with Poniboy with him as he would give us several more options all over the place and make our D allot better.
If true and LA doesn't land him then this free agency should be known as "the one that everyone used Lombardi as their b^%&@ for more money" year. Would LA give WM's camp a time period to respond in such an instance or be content to ride it out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I like the idea of him being smarter/more experienced in how he brings it and that is what he is saying I think. He can skate really well too. His concussion was pretty severe but players have come back from them and picked up where they left off in the past.
WM's concussion scares me alot less than some of the names of possible substitute fillers out there at this point.

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Old
08-16-2010, 06:04 PM
  #196
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Yep.

I agree that this off season seems to be one where we are particularly getting out bid for services but this seems to happen to us allot over the past few years.

WM if healthy would be my first choice even over Martin and Hammy. Both of them are good all around pmd types but I am of the opinion that we need a legitimate shut down guy for each pairing and having one that brings a tough edge to his game would do allot for our overall defencive style.

WM could be a great pick up.

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08-16-2010, 06:38 PM
  #197
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Unfortunately, Los Angeles is not yet a city of choice for UFAs who want to win a Cup. I do not hold DL responsible for this, decades of futility, quick fixes and no coherent plan is responsible for this. The person most responsible, like it or not, is Wayne Gretzky. AEG is also to blame although they seem to have learned from their mistakes. If you look at the past four years, the only UFAs we got who came here out of choice, and not because they had a lot of other options, did so because they were overpaid or coming off an injury along with question marks. Just about everyone else we really wanted signed elsewhere. I would also put Ryan Smyth into this category as he did waive his NTC.

This is not something that can be fixed overnight. it requires a consistent history of on-ice success, a building through a consistent, clearly articulated plan and a culture as communicated to potential newcomers (hence Matt Greene's importance). As long as these elements are not in place, LA will primarily be a place that players to use as a means of drawing better offers from the team they really want to play for. The good news is that they are almost in place. Another playoff run, the development of Doughty, Kopitar, Bernier/Quick, Simmonds and, hopefully, Johnson, leaves in place a core that is both homegrown and committed to our program. The next crop of UFAs are going to see that as they are going to play against it next season. I know this sucks right now, but I would not be surprised if we start attracting a higher brand of UFA.


Last edited by piston: 08-16-2010 at 06:58 PM.
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08-16-2010, 06:49 PM
  #198
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Perfectly said Piston.

I also agree that 99 was a big part of the reason that we faced so much difficulty. I like to think of it as misplaced enthusiasm but as great of a player that he was and totally nice person too, he did have his fault.

Right as usual Piston.

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08-16-2010, 06:54 PM
  #199
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I know everyone takes it for granted, I'd just like to point out that just because they are homegrown doesn't mean they are automatically going to want to stay here at any cost.

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Old
08-16-2010, 07:01 PM
  #200
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DennisTFP:

Drumbeats louder for WillieMitchell to LAKings.
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