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Old
08-17-2010, 08:13 PM
  #51
E = CH²
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Not sure the prosecution would have been so hard on John Doe...
Prosecution was covering their *****.
Good point.

It's hilarious that people say he got away because of his hockey career when it's actually the other way around. If he had been John Doe, probably nothing would have resulted from this. Prosecutor wanted to make a name for himself, got lucky and got an idiot judge who got 100% overturned by 3 other judges in appeal.

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Old
08-17-2010, 11:21 PM
  #52
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Guy is Free

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Old
08-17-2010, 11:27 PM
  #53
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The curfew didn't state where his son had to sleep. I don't know how much clearer I can be. So his son was sleeping somewhere else, in time, but not at Lafleur's house. And it was never proven that Lafleur was told or knew he had to keep him at his house.

You people need to stop making wild accusation, stop saying he's a criminal, or that it opens up the way for others to lie about their son... please.......
I don't know too many cases where a curfew outside home (or regular sleeping household) was permitted.

I'm not making any wild accusation other than question his parenting skills. It's tough to be a parent, and I'm not saying it's his fault his son's a moron but it's a hint that it is a possibility.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:06 AM
  #54
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Was hoping he'd spend years in prison.
Agreed.

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Old
08-18-2010, 08:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The curfew didn't state where his son had to sleep. I don't know how much clearer I can be. So his son was sleeping somewhere else, in time, but not at Lafleur's house. And it was never proven that Lafleur was told or knew he had to keep him at his house.

You people need to stop making wild accusation, stop saying he's a criminal, or that it opens up the way for others to lie about their son... please.......
i think it's clear that Mark Lafleur did not have restrictions that prevented him from being at a hotel.

But the issue is the truthfulness of Guy Lafleur when he testified about the whereabouts of his son on those nights.

I've read differing accounts even within the same article about the questions asked and the responses given. I think it's safe to say that Guy knowingly mislead the judge, however the overturn reflects the fact that it was not important to the case against Mark Lafleur anyway (which is not grounds for overturning on appeal but I guess the test for reasonable doubt changed in the appellate court when it was found that a crime was really not committed).

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08-18-2010, 08:27 AM
  #56
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Anybody here calling Guy a bad father or a lier or a criminal is a disgrace. BTW, anyone here realizes that Mark Lafleur has the Tourette's Syndrome? You know what that means for his parents? You know how hard it can be for them?

For Christ Sake's, many fathers would have GTFO and married a 26 y/o and start over. But no, he stood by his family, tried hard to protect his son, and even accepted to be responsible for him when the curfew was put in the first place. That makes him a bad father?

It was established in court that the curfew DID NOT mean the son had to sleep AT HOME. 3 JUDGES, NO APPEAL POSSIBLE. But I guess all you haters know better...

It is sooooooooooooooooooooo like this province to be haters.

People have only themselves to blame for French players doing everything in their power NOT TO PLAY HERE.

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08-18-2010, 09:06 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
Anybody here calling Guy a bad father or a lier or a criminal is a disgrace. BTW, anyone here realizes that Mark Lafleur has the Tourette's Syndrome? You know what that means for his parents? You know how hard it can be for them?

For Christ Sake's, many fathers would have GTFO and married a 26 y/o and start over. But no, he stood by his family, tried hard to protect his son, and even accepted to be responsible for him when the curfew was put in the first place. That makes him a bad father?

It was established in court that the curfew DID NOT mean the son had to sleep AT HOME. 3 JUDGES, NO APPEAL POSSIBLE. But I guess all you haters know better...

It is sooooooooooooooooooooo like this province to be haters.

People have only themselves to blame for French players doing everything in their power NOT TO PLAY HERE.
Anybody liking Guy for anything else than his on ice exploits is a disgrace.

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08-18-2010, 09:38 AM
  #58
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Anybody liking Guy for anything else than his on ice exploits is a disgrace.
anybody not seeing the difference between:

-accusing someone that has been found NOT GUILTY of being a criminal just on the basis that, because he is a known figure, everyone is allowed to judge him

and

-feeling sympathy for a person that has had a rough parenthood situation (with a child having mental health issues) and that has been treated like **** by camera loving prosecution

is a *********.
:-P

I do not know him personally nor have I ever met him. As such I do not *LIKE* him per se. But as a father and as a human being, I feel *SYMPATHY* for him. See the difference?

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08-18-2010, 11:35 AM
  #59
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Tourette`s Syndrome

Tourette`s Syndrome does not cause criminal behavior. Bad parenting does though. That`s like telling a judge you cannot remember a sexual assault because you were too drunk. Sexual assault does not come in a bottle at the liquor store. Mark needs to take responsibility for his behavior and learn to work with his disability-illness. Guy needs to stop enabling him.

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08-18-2010, 12:28 PM
  #60
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Tourette`s Syndrome does not cause criminal behavior. Bad parenting does though. That`s like telling a judge you cannot remember a sexual assault because you were too drunk. Sexual assault does not come in a bottle at the liquor store. Mark needs to take responsibility for his behavior and learn to work with his disability-illness. Guy needs to stop enabling him.
You don't know **** about dealing with Tourette's or how Lafleur is dealing with his child. You are just judging from outside based on bull **** assumptions. People need to get off their high horse and stop feeling superior. Life is hard, having a trouble child is hard, having a trouble child WITH a mental illness is hard.

3 JUDGES say Guy is innocent. Any other OPINION has no legal or judicial value. And saying someone is a liar or a criminal when a court of law says otherwise is nothing short of slander.

Guy Lafleur is as perfect as all of his accusers.

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Old
08-18-2010, 12:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
You don't know **** about dealing with Tourette's or how Lafleur is dealing with his child. You are just judging from outside based on bull **** assumptions. People need to get off their high horse and stop feeling superior. Life is hard, having a trouble child is hard, having a trouble child WITH a mental illness is hard.

3 JUDGES say Guy is innocent. Any other OPINION has no legal or judicial value. And saying someone is a liar or a criminal when a court of law says otherwise is nothing short of slander.

Guy Lafleur is as perfect as all of his accusers.
There's a big difference between being acquitted and being found innocent. All that being acquitted means is that they cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, is that Guy knowingly lied under oath. That far from guarantees his innocence.

And stop making Guy seem like a victim here. Maybe you should think about the young lady that Mark Lafleur repeatedly and violently abused.

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08-18-2010, 01:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
Anybody here calling Guy a bad father or a lier or a criminal is a disgrace.
Driving your 23 year old son to have sex with a 16 year old girl is bad parenting whether it's illegal or not, especially if said son is on a curfew for abusing another young girl.

He is a liar since he did lie to the court.

He is a criminal, since perjury is a crime, even though his conviction was overturned. He is not a convicted criminal anymore.

Guy Lafleur is the one who is a disgrace. As an ambassador he represents the team and the sport. If he can't watch his antics and feels the need to rant about the team to the media that's fine, it's his life, but he should atleast resign from his position.

No one can take away his on-ice exploits, but he is not a good role model or a good ambassador.

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08-18-2010, 02:16 PM
  #63
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Driving your 23 year old son to have sex with a 16 year old girl is bad parenting whether it's illegal or not, especially if said son is on a curfew for abusing another young girl.

He is a liar since he did lie to the court.

He is a criminal, since perjury is a crime, even though his conviction was overturned. He is not a convicted criminal anymore.

Guy Lafleur is the one who is a disgrace. As an ambassador he represents the team and the sport. If he can't watch his antics and feels the need to rant about the team to the media that's fine, it's his life, but he should atleast resign from his position.

No one can take away his on-ice exploits, but he is not a good role model or a good ambassador.
The first sentence of your post is a judgement value. a 22 y/o with a 16 y/o is nothing crazy or out of the ordinary. There are also laws concerning the age of consent. They exist so no one can arbitrarily decide what is ok and what is not. By law, this is OK.

When you say he is a liar, you talk out of your ass, since the court says otherwise.

The third sentence concerning crimes and criminals is wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to start. But to simplify things: Democratic societies have this thing called presumption of innocence, better known as innocent until proven guilty. There is no such thing, except in your mind, as a non convicted criminal.

If you can read french, you should read the judgement. And after reading the judgement you still think Guy Lafleur willfully lied to the court, then I can only say we have different interpretations of reality.

http://www.jugements.qc.ca/php/decis...1C6811E&page=1

and the judges say :
"
103] Suivant les deux témoignages de l'appelant, en tout temps, à sa connaissance, son fils a respecté le couvre-feu. Je souligne que l'appelant avait raison de dire, en témoignant, que l'existence d'un couvre-feu ne signifie pas que le fils devait nécessairement le respecter en rentrant chez lui à l'heure dite. Il pouvait sûrement le respecter en passant la nuit ailleurs.

[104] Sur la question spécifique du couvre-feu, selon le premier témoignage, l'appelant a toujours été présent et témoin du respect de ce couvre-feu lorsque son fils revenait à la maison. Selon le second, il le savait, même si son fils était à l'hôtel, puisque ce dernier lui téléphonait à l'heure convenue. Je ne vois aucune contradiction entre ces deux versions. L'on peut tout au plus prétendre que la seconde complète la première. "


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Old
08-18-2010, 02:23 PM
  #64
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Hey Castro...wasn`t OJ acquitted

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08-18-2010, 02:34 PM
  #65
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Hey Castro...wasn`t OJ acquitted
and your point is?

Have you read the judgement? The court says he couldn't have lied since there was no value in lying since the curfew was never broken. Also it says the 2 testimonies are not contradictory, they are complementary.

But sure, he's EXACTLY like OJ, right?

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Old
08-19-2010, 12:24 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
The first sentence of your post is a judgement value. a 22 y/o with a 16 y/o is nothing crazy or out of the ordinary. There are also laws concerning the age of consent. They exist so no one can arbitrarily decide what is ok and what is not. By law, this is OK.
Who cares about age of consent.
Would you let your 16yo high school teenage girl, barely out of puberty, go out with a 22yo bum sex offender?..
Or even, would you let young 16yo go out with some 22yo (no matter what he is, bum or university student) ??

Furthermore, if I found out my 22 yo son had a 16yo girlfriend, I would be asking myself where I went wrong. Is there something that wrong with him that he can't pick up girls his own age.
How exactly does a 22yo have anything in common with a 16yo???..The maturity level of each of them should be completely different and too far from one another, which would make any type of mental stimulation impossible.

There is something absolutely wrong in a 22yo going out with a 16yo. It's wrong for so many reasons.

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Old
08-19-2010, 12:29 AM
  #67
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Please don't call him Flower, that's so lame.

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Old
08-19-2010, 09:07 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Who cares about age of consent.
Would you let your 16yo high school teenage girl, barely out of puberty, go out with a 22yo bum sex offender?..
Or even, would you let young 16yo go out with some 22yo (no matter what he is, bum or university student) ??

Furthermore, if I found out my 22 yo son had a 16yo girlfriend, I would be asking myself where I went wrong. Is there something that wrong with him that he can't pick up girls his own age.
How exactly does a 22yo have anything in common with a 16yo???..The maturity level of each of them should be completely different and too far from one another, which would make any type of mental stimulation impossible.

There is something absolutely wrong in a 22yo going out with a 16yo. It's wrong for so many reasons.
You are so right, I mean I can not fathom a situation where a 16 y/o girl and a 22 y/o guy can go out together. The guy is probably a pedophile and he will get younger and younger girls as he grows up, right?
Maturity levels develop the same way for ALL individuals, including the ones who have mental illnesses that may hinder their development. Anyhow, those ones should not be in a relationship whatsoever, right?



6 years of difference is humongous!
BTW : THEY ARE STILL TOGETHER. She's 21 and he's 27. What a pervert!

And all this is relevant to Guy Lafleur why exactly? He wasn't accused of letting his son be with that girl or even driving him to the hotel or even breaking the curfew. He was accused of making contradictory testimonies and that has been proven to be false by the court of appeal. He was not only acquitted, the Judge says the previous judgement was very flawed and made bad assumptions and that the witness (Lafleur) was right all along. Not only he did not lie, he was even right in his interpretation of the rules of the curfew.

But please, feel free to continue judging. You know better than those stupid court of appeal judges

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08-19-2010, 09:42 AM
  #69
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People judge so easily.

It can't have been easy to have tourette and be the son of Guy Lafleur after his career was over and he was doing hairfax and viagra commercials while being laughed at regularly on les bleu poudres. Kids can be pretty mean and reject you off the bat just based on that. And well, that can't lead to emotional stability and perfect development.

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08-19-2010, 11:39 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CastroLeRobot View Post
You are so right, I mean I can not fathom a situation where a 16 y/o girl and a 22 y/o guy can go out together. The guy is probably a pedophile and he will get younger and younger girls as he grows up, right?
Maturity levels develop the same way for ALL individuals, including the ones who have mental illnesses that may hinder their development. Anyhow, those ones should not be in a relationship whatsoever, right?



6 years of difference is humongous!
BTW : THEY ARE STILL TOGETHER. She's 21 and he's 27. What a pervert!

And all this is relevant to Guy Lafleur why exactly? He wasn't accused of letting his son be with that girl or even driving him to the hotel or even breaking the curfew. He was accused of making contradictory testimonies and that has been proven to be false by the court of appeal. He was not only acquitted, the Judge says the previous judgement was very flawed and made bad assumptions and that the witness (Lafleur) was right all along. Not only he did not lie, he was even right in his interpretation of the rules of the curfew.

But please, feel free to continue judging. You know better than those stupid court of appeal judges
Man, you really take everything to the extreme. Where did I say he was a pedophile??..like

It's wrong because the 16yo girl doesn't know any better. I don't care if they are still together today, I don't care if there are examples of 16yo going out with older guys and remained as a couple forever, in the majority of cases the young 16yo is to naive to understand much and gets taken advantage off.
I don't get why I have to explain this to you really, I wonder what world you live in.
Where do you draw the line if 16yo/22yo is okay??...15/21??..14/20??..13/19???..12/18?? Which is it??

Once the girl becomes of legal age, then she can date whoever she'd want.

And I actually said before I don't care about Lafleur's accusation. I think it was a joke to begin with. I said I think the guy is a bad parent because his son has a history of sexual assault but then let's him date and gives him a lift to a hotel where he's going to see a 16yo girl. Sounds pretty stupid to me but I guess this is all fine and dandy for you.

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08-19-2010, 11:44 AM
  #71
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People judge so easily.

It can't have been easy to have tourette and be the son of Guy Lafleur after his career was over and he was doing hairfax and viagra commercials while being laughed at regularly on les bleu poudres. Kids can be pretty mean and reject you off the bat just based on that. And well, that can't lead to emotional stability and perfect development.
Ya right, poor him, he was the son of a legendary hockey player, the girl he sexually assaulted probably was looking for it as well must be her fault because she heckled him.

Sure, maybe some kids made fun of him, I'm sure most loved to chill with his rich ass and be friends with the son of Guy Lafleur.

My cousin used to go to Marie de France with Serge Savard's kids, they didn't turn up to be felons and were made fun of by some kids.

I understand it can be tough to have a shining light constantly on your dad as you grow up, but this doesn't excuse his decisions in the least.

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08-19-2010, 12:25 PM
  #72
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I didn't post in this thread cuz I thought I'd get flamed for saying how I feel about him...seems some beat me to it lol I wasn't old enough to watch him play and I guess all that's left is his legacy and of course, how he carries himself off the ice. I heard he's a very nice guy with fans, but for some reason always seems like he likes to bash the habs. Very annoying. Beliveau is amazing, I didn't watch him either, but c'mon, he's at every game, 100% classy and that's what I wish Lafleur was, he'd have a lot more respect if he were.

Also, Lafleur's son is disgusting.

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08-19-2010, 01:18 PM
  #73
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Ya right, poor him, he was the son of a legendary hockey player, the girl he sexually assaulted probably was looking for it as well must be her fault because she heckled him.

Sure, maybe some kids made fun of him, I'm sure most loved to chill with his rich ass and be friends with the son of Guy Lafleur.

My cousin used to go to Marie de France with Serge Savard's kids, they didn't turn up to be felons and were made fun of by some kids.

I understand it can be tough to have a shining light constantly on your dad as you grow up, but this doesn't excuse his decisions in the least.
This reminds me of the thread about David Fortin where people were saying the kid was a disgrace for giving so much trouble to his parents. As usual, people on HF boards are incapable of commiseration..

Also, I never said it excused anything. Understanding why something happened and commiseration do not mean you forgive or excuse. The two can be exclusive and I never said the son should get a free pass. But you jump to conclusions to enhance your argument again. It's not surprising that you can't even understand where I'm coming from since you appear to be incapable of empathy.

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Old
08-19-2010, 02:39 PM
  #74
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This reminds me of the thread about David Fortin where people were saying the kid was a disgrace for giving so much trouble to his parents. As usual, people on HF boards are incapable of commiseration..

Also, I never said it excused anything. Understanding why something happened and commiseration do not mean you forgive or excuse. The two can be exclusive and I never said the son should get a free pass. But you jump to conclusions to enhance your argument again. It's not surprising that you can't even understand where I'm coming from since you appear to be incapable of empathy.
Actually no, all you do is defend them.
I initially said Lafleur was the one deserving the blame for his son's poor attitude/judgment/problems. I questioned his parenting skills, but then you said I didn't know anything or something like that (don't quite remember).

I have empathy for a lot of people, sexual offenders??..not so much. I guess I'm just THAT cruel. Sure, the guy might have had a rough childhood (if he did then you have to wonder why since he came from such a wealthy family, which will probably come back on the parents's fault), but he's still a moron.

I don't really care for understanding, it's besides the point. Someone might be born retarded for many scientific reasons, doesn't change the fact that he's retarded.
Samething over here, no matter what happened in the childhood, I'm sure the parents have some blame to take on and the kid is still a moron for what he's done.

I don't need to feel bad for them, I don't know them nor do I care about them.

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08-19-2010, 03:14 PM
  #75
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Didn't take long him to criticize the team. Lafleur was a great player for the Habs, but he's one big whiner. I think his association with the Habs will come to an end very soon and that's a good thing.

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