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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VI

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Old
08-18-2010, 12:16 AM
  #251
DIEHARD the King fan
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A question it was, . . . Yes!

or

A question it was, . . . No?

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Old
08-18-2010, 03:08 AM
  #252
RAZZIE King
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
My favorite part from Eklund's currenty blog (talks about Mitchell):



Please be true...
My prayers are with the Sharks...TO TAKE HIM!!!

Jones...NOT Mitchell...

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Old
08-18-2010, 02:24 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well Hawk fans all agree it was stupid to sign Huet (I was against the signing the day it happened)

The issue with some fans is over who was traded,,, Mostly just Byfuglien and Ladd

Some fans would have rather seen Sharp traded over losing those 2 or seen Bolland traded and Byfuglien kept or Hjalamrsson moved and Buff kept , etc

The Hawks getting a good return on our players also helped soften the blow to most fans.

Byfuglien , Sopel , Ladd , Eager and Versteeg became

2010 1st (NJ's via Atl) - Hawks selected RW Kevin Hayes
2010 2nd (NJ's via Atl) - Hawks selected D Justin Holl
2011 2nd (Atl)
D Ivan Vishnevskiy (2006 1st rounder) (Via Atl)
C Jeremy Morin (2009 2nd rounder) (Via Atl)
LW Victor Stalberg (Via Tor)
C Phillip Paradis (2009 1st rounder) (Via Tor)
C Christopher Didomenico (Via Tor)

Add that with guys like Beach , Skille , Kruger , Pirri , Lalonde , Olsen and Leddy coming thru system

We are all in all pretty happy with how things turned out. We knew we would lose some depth due to cap for last 2 years ,,, we were prepared for it

Just giving you Hawks fan perspective
You can't be serious. Either the Cup win has you guys more drunk than normal, or you're misrepresenting your fanbase.

You're going to try and convince me a return, featuring Ivan Veshnevsky as the best piece, for five important players on your Cup winning squad is making you happy? Yikes, man.

I know you're like the biggest and most ubiqitous Hawks' homer on this board, but don't say stupid things. The Hawks are a drastically different, and worse, team than they were last season. You guys couldn't even re-sign your young, Cup winning goaltender because of cap issues. You say things like, "yeah, we lost some depth whatever" when depth is the reason you won a Stanley Cup. You ran a deep blueline, including two 30 minute guys smack dab in the middle of their primes, and three lines up front that could all score on any given shift. You don't have that anymore. Not even close. Kane, Toews, Hossa, and Sharp are all nice forwards, but those are the only guys you got. You're counting on ****ing Kyle Beach to step up and make an impact? Good luck with that.

The Hawks are still a good team. Don't get me wrong. They should make the playoffs barring any major injuries to one of their core players. But they're not going to win another Cup again until Campbell and Huet are off the books.

Don't spread the Kool-Aid around these parts. We already have enough people convinced we should sign Kovalchuk at the league max.

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Old
08-18-2010, 02:30 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by cybersync View Post
It was a question...
Sorry, I guess I don't understand the question. Not trying to be difficult.

I don't think anyone has a link really. Supposedly Vancouver has been offering one year according to various posters on the main board, and the Kings have offered two years.

I suggest you go to the Trade Rumors board and just take a look around.

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:05 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
This is where I am. When I hear someone, like the GM of my favorite Hockey club make a statement, I expect that statement to be more than just words thrown out into the public domain to make me feel better when it was uttered. I expect it to be TRUE. It may be before you were on this board, but I had the privilege of actually being invited to and attending one of the very small STH meetings DL held with long time, disgruntled STH's like myself, back in June of 2008. I asked the hard questions, about Cammy, about the length of the rebuild, about his boxes on his charts about his UFA signings (bridges, as he called them). (NotHelen wrote about it, and DL has referenced me although not by name on a couple occasions) In that meeting, DL was frank and sincere, and he made statements of fact. He talked about Cammy, who I have also met on several occasions (and had beers with) he discussed his plans for building (he told us who he coveted that year).

I have seen movement in that direction, but as to where he said we would be by this point, we are not there. People on this board make excuses for him, while I, like I do in life and my practice seek to evaluate people based on the confromity of their actions to their words. Its why I called him a shill for so long (and took lots of grief for it). I'd be a fool to say he hasn't built a pipeline that should bode well for the future, but so far he hasnt accomplished the things that are important and that is going deep into the playoffs. Maybe, hopefully, that will come through development alone, although I have sincere doubts. Every championship team in recent memory, even Detroit had significant UFA additions. And while Scuds and Poni may be important, we need more than just developing youth and progression to get over the hump and become the next Chicago (without the dismantling, (thats for you Rick))

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not ready to hand him the keys to the city, to Uncle Phils purse sure, but not the city. When he brings a mid-June parade that has nothing to do with a round-ball to LA, I'll sing his praises, but I'll note than San Jose, a team he is credited with developing into a contender hasnt even sniffed the finals yet.

His upcoming tests, the 2010-11 season, the re-signing of Bernier, DD08, Simmonds (who may or may not still be around) and JJ, and how deep into the playoffs we go will tell alot. And while my hopes are high, as they are most often in Fall, my heart-felt expectations don't nearly match them, because this off-season, so far hasnt given me reason to raise them any higher. All things given regression is just as likely as progression, age and maturity not withstanding.

So, just to make certain that I understand what you are saying, we are saying the exact same things, right?

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:09 PM
  #256
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"Wake me up when September ends"

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08-18-2010, 05:11 PM
  #257
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Oh dhk, by the way,

Cammy is a good kid who can't hold his beer worth a darn, if you had beer with him then you know exactly what I am talking about right? The only place where his size is a hinderance in my opinion.

(Billy should know better than to quote Oscar Wilde when he wrote "wake me up when September ends" in my opinion)

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08-18-2010, 05:11 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
So, just to make certain that I understand what you are saying, we are saying the exact same things, right?
Yes sir-ee!

now if KINGS17 asked that question ther might be a different answer!

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:19 PM
  #259
etherialone
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Yep.

I have to believe that even the most ardent DL supports know in their hearts that this coming season is pretty much Sydney or the bush time. DL arguably has done a good job at building his vision for what our goaltending and blue line should look like for a few years to come but, as far as his promise of consistently moving forward goes up until this past season I was starting to have my doubts.

It truly is this season where my largest concerns sit for the same reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If he can make a few of the moves that have been rumored to be on the boiler recently and they work out for us then we should be all set for a cup run.

If he doesn't and we don't get exceptional help from our farm system then DL will have broken his promise of keeping us moving steadily forward. Sydney or the bush. King or goat. It is up to DL.

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:28 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Yep.

I have to believe that even the most ardent DL supports know in their hearts that this coming season is pretty much Sydney or the bush time. DL arguably has done a good job at building his vision for what our goaltending and blue line should look like for a few years to come but, as far as his promise of consistently moving forward goes up until this past season I was starting to have my doubts.

It truly is this season where my largest concerns sit for the same reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If he can make a few of the moves that have been rumored to be on the boiler recently and they work out for us then we should be all set for a cup run.

If he doesn't and we don't get exceptional help from our farm system then DL will have broken his promise of keeping us moving steadily forward. Sydney or the bush. King or goat. It is up to DL.
It depends on how you define "moving forward." I don't think it necessarily involves improving in the standings every season.

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:43 PM
  #261
etherialone
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It does in my opinion however mean that we have to go further in the playoffs, wouldn't you agree?

Our moving forward after 5 years should be easily determined by the teams overall success. That is absolutely tied into how far into the playoffs we go in my opinion. Even DL has said as much so I will allow his words to be what determines our forward progress.

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Old
08-18-2010, 05:52 PM
  #262
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
It does in my opinion however mean that we have to go further in the playoffs, wouldn't you agree?

Our moving forward after 5 years should be easily determined by the teams overall success. That is absolutely tied into how far into the playoffs we go in my opinion. Even DL has said as much so I will allow his words to be what determines our forward progress.
In my opinion it doesn't necessarily mean that the Kings go further in the playoffs. To me if the kids end up playing a significant amount (guys like Hickey and Bernier [Schenn would be an added bonus in this area]) and then the young guys on the roster like Simmonds, Richardson, and Johnson show real improvement and look like they are ready to take on even more responsibility in the coming years, then I think the team has moved forward, even with another 1st round exit.

2011-2012 is the season I am looking to for a playoff series win. This team has surprised us so far, but I am not expecting a linear progression in the standings or in playoff success. Our best players are still in their early 20's. Expect them to be somewhat inconsistent.

The notion that the team could be cup contenders this coming season with the right moves? Well, I just don't see it even if the Kings had added Kovalchuk.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:00 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Yep.

I have to believe that even the most ardent DL supports know in their hearts that this coming season is pretty much Sydney or the bush time. DL arguably has done a good job at building his vision for what our goaltending and blue line should look like for a few years to come but, as far as his promise of consistently moving forward goes up until this past season I was starting to have my doubts.

It truly is this season where my largest concerns sit for the same reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If he can make a few of the moves that have been rumored to be on the boiler recently and they work out for us then we should be all set for a cup run.

If he doesn't and we don't get exceptional help from our farm system then DL will have broken his promise of keeping us moving steadily forward. Sydney or the bush. King or goat. It is up to DL.
Never heard that phrase before but I think I understand.

Its time for results and no further extension of the rebuild plan. I think where I and others diverge on this is that others are far more patient and wish to give DL more years. I believe five years is sufficient time to rebuild any hockey franchise so I do expect results, sooner at this point than later.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:07 PM
  #264
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I honestly get sick of hearing the excuse of "all the young guys will be one year older next year." WTF does that mean? Every team in the NHL can sit back, do nothing and say that. That is ridiculous.

Our Kings were eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs because of our lack of foot speed on defense, our lack of scoring 5 on 5 and our toughness agaisnt the Canucks. Lombardi did not address one of those problems...toughness may be solved by default, ie Westgarth and Clifford possibly stepping in...and even then Clifford is just a kid and Westy is hurt. Besides that, the other needs were not addressed. I am not a season ticket holder, but I would be hard pressed to renew if I was one.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:15 PM
  #265
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Valid points k17 and hard to argue with but do you think that with this being year 6 that we are going into of DL's own 5 year plan that by now we should have already been doing this (the playing the kids in place of the Randy Jones' of the world) wherever possible?

We had open spots last year that could easily enough have been used to give a couple of kids some time on the blue line (more than what Davis and A Mart got). I think that every game that Peter Harrold played in (by the way I like Peter but he is a fringe NHLer and should be used as sparingly as possible imo) we could have used a kid like Lewis or Voinov and given them the time.

I know that it can be argued that Peter was simply the best option and that Randy Jones was as well (though god himself will strike down with great vengeance anyone who makes that argument) but if we had planned on utilizing our kids this up coming season then why wouldn't we have started their progression in ernest last year?

Lewis got very limited time last year and as such will need time to be brought along if he is indeed the 4rth line center that we believe him to be. Last year he could have been given more time with the big club and then coming into this season he would have had a better understanding of how to play the game at this level.

The same can be said for Westy and VV as far as that goes.

I have to think that if we had planned on this coming season being the time that we will rely more on our prospects than we have before that we would have been smarter about how we prepared outselves to do so.

To me, it seems like if we have a line up with more than 3 rookie's on it that it reflects poorly on our team and its management at this point. I mean true rookies by the way, not call ups who have more than 10 games experience.

I could easily see us fielding the following kids for this season:

A Mart
Hickey
Voinov
Lewis
Clifford
Schenn
Westgarth
and
Bernier.

Certainly all for different amounts of time and with different expectations but still that is way too many kids at one time imo.

I am all for the idea of our playing a couple of them as regulars but that is a big list of kids to rely on to me.

The good thing would be that the majority of these kids would be used on the fourth line and as alternate D but that being said if we are honestly going to rely on so many kids then it would truly be a miracle for us to improve.

That is why I say that if our plan was to rely on so many kids at one time that I would have to believe that we would have used them more this past season.

DL will sign a dman very soon and announce his trade as well to address a hole up front and since he was the one who said that it would only take 5 years for the majority of his plan to build a legitimate contender to be implemented then that is what I expect (with of course the allowance of unexpected circumstances like key injuries etc).

I don't think that DL can afford to do anything but go further in the playoffs this coming season or he will have gone back on his plan and if you know DL, he is completely freaky about sticking to his plan. It is an obsession with him.

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08-18-2010, 06:16 PM
  #266
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^^^

Right, you can not rely on roster progression alone if you want to win a Cup.

NOBODY does.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:22 PM
  #267
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I'm sick of excuses in general. Lets win something!

I'm just tired of the offseason in general. My general opinion is our GM has been in the passenger seat this summer and I think it is about time people start holding his feet to the fire. I'll reserve my judgement for when the season starts and as it pans out but so far the team hasn't been improved. I guess we'll find out in October.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:51 PM
  #268
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I think DL has a five-year plan so that the prospects he drafted will be ready in 5 years. Look at the Penguins, for instance. They picked Fleury in 2003. Kings picked Bernier in 2006. Penguins won in 08-09... Kings will win in 11-12. The similarities of the players drafted maturing at a certain rate allude to time being the key to the Kings' success. Most of our prospects haven't even hit the ice yet, we made a huge push last year with our core guys and some fillers. Our drafted role players didn't even touch the ice.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:52 PM
  #269
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Well, everyone got there extensions...so no one is really on the hot seat...I would have liked to see AEG wait till the summer was over to make that move...Hell, Tallon and Dudley have made more moves as first year GM's with there teams this summer...

The Penguins are a tough comparison....they have an insane duo of Malkin/Crosby, two guys that would be the No.1 guy on any team in the league.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:57 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
You can't be serious. Either the Cup win has you guys more drunk than normal, or you're misrepresenting your fanbase.

You're going to try and convince me a return, featuring Ivan Veshnevsky as the best piece, for five important players on your Cup winning squad is making you happy? Yikes, man.

I know you're like the biggest and most ubiqitous Hawks' homer on this board, but don't say stupid things. The Hawks are a drastically different, and worse, team than they were last season. You guys couldn't even re-sign your young, Cup winning goaltender because of cap issues. You say things like, "yeah, we lost some depth whatever" when depth is the reason you won a Stanley Cup. You ran a deep blueline, including two 30 minute guys smack dab in the middle of their primes, and three lines up front that could all score on any given shift. You don't have that anymore. Not even close. Kane, Toews, Hossa, and Sharp are all nice forwards, but those are the only guys you got. You're counting on ****ing Kyle Beach to step up and make an impact? Good luck with that.

The Hawks are still a good team. Don't get me wrong. They should make the playoffs barring any major injuries to one of their core players. But they're not going to win another Cup again until Campbell and Huet are off the books.

Don't spread the Kool-Aid around these parts. We already have enough people convinced we should sign Kovalchuk at the league max.
Actually I would argue I think Morin or Stalberg have potential to be biggest pieces of those trades

And The Hawks are still fairly deep compared to alot of teams and I actually dont think Beach will be on our opening night roster

Brouwer-Toews-Kane (Our 1st line most of last year)
Stalberg-Sharp-Hossa
Kopecky-Bolland-Skille (People forget Skille has been waiting for chance to play in NHL)
Bickell-Dowell-Pisani
Scott as extra forward

Keith-Seabrook
Campbell-Hjalmarsson
Vishnevskiy-Hendry
Boynton

Turco
Crawford

700k in free cap room in event of injuries or in event we look to acquire a player

As a Hawks fan it sucked to lose Buff , Ladd and Niemi..... But we have depth to replace them (Steeger I wont miss,,,,, Hell we considered trading him at deadline)

And I am very happy with how our system looks at this moment

LW Kyle Beach (2008 1st round)
LW Ludvig Rensfeldt (2010 2nd round)
RW Kevin Hayes (2010 1st round)
RW Jimmy Hayes (2008 2nd round)
RW Ben Smith (Good complete player from Boston College,, Lots of potential)
RW Igor Makarov (2006 2nd round)
C Brandon Pirri (Leading rookie scorer in NCAA)
C Marcus Kruger (Leading rookie scorer in SEL)
C Jeremy Morin (2009 2nd round)
C Philippe Paradis (2009 1st round)
D Dylan Olsen (2009 1st round)
D Nick Leddy (2009 1st round)
D Shawn Lalonde (2008 2nd round)
D Simon Danis-Pepin (2006 2nd round)
D Stephen Johns (2010 2nd round)
D Justin Holl (2010 2nd round)
G Kent Simpson (2010 2nd round)

And next year at draft we have a good # of picks

Our 1st
Our 2nd
Flames 2nd
Thrashers 2nd
Our 3rd
Leafs 3rd
Our 4th
Our 5th
Our 6th
Our 7th
Bruins 7th

We have a great young core signed longterm ,,, Our cap troubles are over and we have alot of good talent coming up pipeline in coming years

Why shouldn't I be thrilled?

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:10 PM
  #271
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Leddy and Paradis are both bang on solid but the rest are just the rest. Some better than others and could make it but to replace the players that you lost they will have to step up very big. Possible but that is counting an awful lot on your kids to step in and keep you at the top of the game next year.

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08-18-2010, 07:42 PM
  #272
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Your Hawks better play Scott or hope Beach makes the team because that line up is soft as heck after Ladd, Buff and Eager are gone.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:55 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
You can't be serious. Either the Cup win has you guys more drunk than normal, or you're misrepresenting your fanbase.


The Hawks are still a good team. Don't get me wrong. They should make the playoffs barring any major injuries to one of their core players. But they're not going to win another Cup again until Campbell and Huet are off the books.

Don't spread the Kool-Aid around these parts. We already have enough people convinced we should sign Kovalchuk at the league max.
Speak for yourself. I want all the Hawks Kool-aid I can get my hands on.

There are no problems in Chicago.(!?!?!?!) I repeat, NO problems in Chicago.

And even IF they miss the playoffs for the next 5 years (not likely they'll miss 1 yr), I doubt their fans would care that much. Their journey through the wilderness is OVER!

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08-18-2010, 08:20 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Speak for yourself. I want all the Hawks Kool-aid I can get my hands on.

There are no problems in Chicago.(!?!?!?!) I repeat, NO problems in Chicago.

And even IF they miss the playoffs for the next 5 years (not likely they'll miss 1 yr), I doubt their fans would care that much. Their journey through the wilderness is OVER!
No way. Better to have a bunch of kicks at the can (Cup) than actually get to grab the cup and hold on to it for an entire year!

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08-18-2010, 08:35 PM
  #275
Johnny Utah
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I was just looking over the free agent list, maybe Lombardi should consider Andrew Peters or Brian McGrattan on a one year, two way deal until Westgarth comes back...and then they can send them down to Manchester and or place them on waivers...no loss if they do clear, the kids down there have some veteran help.

Remember DL signed Ivanans to a 2 way deal and Parros got hurt, came back late in the pre-season, didn't do anything and was waived and Ivanans took his job.

Just a thought since Greene, Westy and Teubert are out and the pre-season is always a fight fest as is the first few games of the season where guys are trying to make names for themselves.

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