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Old
08-18-2010, 06:56 PM
  #76
Duck Off
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
i feel you should gain an infraction for this, now you are personally attacking all leaf fans by calling them loosers, you sir need to grow up as anything is possible in this world, likely or not, a possibility is a possibility no matter how remote.
Maybe I worded it wrong. I actually should have just left TO out. It's just lame that people bash Elkund, even though he deserves it, for a rumor he posted for obvious reasons. Yet people keep making proposals that have been made over and over for the past few months.

I'd edit it, but can't on an iPhone. The mods didn't give me an infraction because they know the meaning. Sorry I worded it wrong. But call me stupid, I think it's more idiotic to respond to the rumors when you know they are bogus then making it itself to generate views.

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Typical word-twisting ploy of Eklund to try and create a "win-win" scenario for himself: criticize the rumor so if it doesn't come true, he can't be criticized; yet make a reference to the rumor anyway so, if it does come true, he can exalt in breaking the scoop. Just reading how he flip flops with ambiguous language, disclaimers and cliches says enough about the credibility of the "information".

You hit the nail on the head...

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Old
08-18-2010, 06:59 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
This is great...

So far I've heard

Phaneuf was our best dman
Kaberle was our best dman
Gunnarsson was our best dman
Komisarek was our best dman

now Schenn was our best dman

whats next Beauchemin? lol
Ya know for a team that gave up 267 goals last year the Leafs sure have a lot of "our best defenseman"...

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:01 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by defer View Post
let me put it this way. boston had to trade kessel right? and look what they got. we dont need to or want to trade bobby and he is better then kessel. so as i said. keep dreaming
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:04 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center
I'd be quite shocked if Kadri becomes a 30 goal scorer... he's only hit 30 goals in the OHL once...

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:07 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center

Who is that?

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:07 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center
Kadri: 1 GP 0 points career

Schenn: physical defensemen with the POTENTIEL to be a top pairing 1way defensemen

Ryan: 66 goals in his first 2 seasons. 2nd place finish in calder votes. already a first line player on almost every team in the NHL and probably a top 15-20 winger.

Kadri has not done anything. schenn is a 1 way defensemen which has much less value then a 35 goal scorer.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:07 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center

I agree

reality is though that it would take both of them to get him.....which is why it will NEVER happen.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:10 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Rainman2408 View Post
I agree

reality is though that it would take both of them to get him.....which is why it will NEVER happen.
I am surprised Burke hasn't craved in yet.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
I'd be quite shocked if Kadri becomes a 30 goal scorer... he's only hit 30 goals in the OHL once...
Bobby ryan OHL stats: OHL totals 248 133 192 325 206

Kadri OHL stat:OHL totals 242 92 166 258 223

kadri: 1 30 goal season
Ryan: 3 30 goal seasons 1 40 goal season

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post

So to recap ...

Proven 35 goal, 65 point winger with untapped potential> potential #2 shutdown defensman + potential 70 point centre
I fixed that for you.

Schenn could very well end up a career #4-5 defenseman and Kadri might not make the NHL. Projections mean far less than actual results when it comes to trade value, unless it's a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin who are sure things.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:20 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I fixed that for you.

Schenn could very well end up a career #4-5 defenseman and Kadri might not make the NHL. Projections mean far less than actual results when it comes to trade value, unless it's a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin who are sure things.
this. 1 proven guy is worth more then 2 PROSPECTS

prospect:a person regarded as likely to succeed

ryan: has succeeded already

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:22 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defer View Post
Kadri: 1 GP 0 points career

Schenn: physical defensemen with the POTENTIEL to be a top pairing 1way defensemen

Ryan: 66 goals in his first 2 seasons. 2nd place finish in calder votes. already a first line player on almost every team in the NHL and probably a top 15-20 winger.

Kadri has not done anything. schenn is a 1 way defensemen which has much less value then a 35 goal scorer.





Do you even know these players? Do you realize Kadri had only 13 less points then Hall or Seguin last year and plays a much grittier game then both? To say he hasn't don't anything yet is a silly agruement. Neither has Hall or Sequin and you couldn't get either with Ryan. (not saying Kadri is as good as Hall or Sequin) Just pointing out they havent done anything either.

Yes Bobby is far more valuable then a 1 way D man in Schenn which is why you have or should have never heard somebody say Schenn straight up for Ryan. But the difference is NOT Kadri sorry.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:25 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rainman2408 View Post
[/B]




Do you even know these players? Do you realize Kadri had only 13 less points then Hall or Seguin last year and plays a much grittier game then both? To say he hasn't don't anything yet is a silly agruement. Neither has Hall or Sequin and you couldn't get either with Ryan. (not saying Kadri is as good as Hall or Sequin) Just pointing out they havent done anything either.

Yes Bobby is far more valuable then a 1 way D man in Schenn which is why you have or should have never heard somebody say Schenn straight up for Ryan. But the difference is NOT Kadri sorry.
hate to tell you this but i would rather have ryan then any of those 3 at this point cause guess what...THEY HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME. hall and seguin are in the same boat as kadri at this point. next year it might be different but i will keep my sure thing and you guys keep hoping kadri developes.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:25 PM
  #90
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yeah to get Ryan you'd likely need to give Kadri, Schenn and a 1st.

If I was Toronto I'd wait for those two to develop because Kadri especially could be better than Ryan.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:27 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Rainman2408 View Post
[/B]




Do you even know these players? Do you realize Kadri had only 13 less points then Hall or Seguin last year and plays a much grittier game then both?.
Really? In the NHL? Just because you do something elsewhere doesn't mean you will produce in the NHL. Ryan has produced greatly in the NHL at a young age.

Prospects have a lot less value than ones with proven NHL ability.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:30 PM
  #92
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Hasn't this rumor been shot down numerous amounts of times? I don't think the Leafs have what Anaheim wants to bring in Bobby Ryan. I personally think that if Burke is going to attempt to acquire a top 6 forward he will look for someone who is being overpaid and is underachieving. Young top 6 forwards are hard to get at a good price even if they are restricted free agents. What the Leafs paid for Kessel is similar to what they could get for Ryan.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:32 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defer View Post
Bobby ryan OHL stats: OHL totals 248 133 192 325 206

Kadri OHL stat:OHL totals 242 92 166 258 223

kadri: 1 30 goal season
Ryan: 3 30 goal seasons 1 40 goal season
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=2865

Ask Nick Kypreos what OHL stats mean in the NHL.
62g in 64 games.....He sure was great, wasn't he?

I watch as much, if not more OHL then NHL.....Many players come in and look great at 16 and 17, but never translate that to success at the next level.......And theres also several who are nothing special but develop later and they go on to have success in the NHL.

Its how a player develops from 19-24 that really matters.

If your gonna compare Kadri to Ryan, its very pre-mature.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:35 PM
  #94
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Seriously guys.. give up.

As much as I'd love to have Ryan here, he is NOT coming here.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:41 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I fixed that for you.

Schenn could very well end up a career #4-5 defenseman and Kadri might not make the NHL. Projections mean far less than actual results when it comes to trade value, unless it's a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin who are sure things.

seriously.........

He should have made the team last year.

Schenn COULD very well be a #4-5 defenseman.....although he is already a 3-4 and only 20 and getting better and better.

Ryan might tank next year and pull a Cheechoo and never be an effective NHLer again after his 2 30+ goal seasons.

You guys aren't talking about just 2 prospects. Your talking about a 5th overall pick who has played 2 years and is 230+ pounds.

Also Kadri who was 7th overall pick in another deep draft. Not exactly average prospects IMO

I understand your point though just misinformed IMO

Stupid to argue this anyway...........NOT HAPPENING.......stupid eklund!

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:48 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Rainman2408 View Post
seriously.........

He should have made the team last year.

Schenn COULD very well be a #4-5 defenseman.....although he is already a 3-4 and only 20 and getting better and better.

Ryan might tank next year and pull a Cheechoo and never be an effective NHLer again after his 2 30+ goal seasons.

You guys aren't talking about just 2 prospects. Your talking about a 5th overall pick who has played 2 years and is 230+ pounds.

Also Kadri who was 7th overall pick in another deep draft. Not exactly average prospects IMO

I understand your point though just misinformed IMO

Stupid to argue this anyway...........NOT HAPPENING.......stupid eklund!
ya but you want to trade for a guy that was a #2 overall pick in the 2005 draft..
not a bad draft i recall either... lets see

Crosby
Ryan
Jack Johnson
Price
Setoguchi
Kopitar
M. Staal
Statsny
Rask
Neal

^ just a few for ya... so what's your point?

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:55 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I fixed that for you.

Schenn could very well end up a career #4-5 defenseman and Kadri might not make the NHL. Projections mean far less than actual results when it comes to trade value, unless it's a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin who are sure things.
As you readily admit, all prospects are not created equal. The likelihood of Schenn and Kadri reaching the potential I outlined is very very good.

Kessel is proven Seguin and Knight and the other first rounder are not. We all still know that the Leafs overpaid.

Kadri plus

Or

Schenn plus

Both is a fleecing for Ryan.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:57 PM
  #98
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Eklund must get up in the morning and come up with all types of crazy ass ideas, write them down on sticky notes, tape them to the dartboard, and throw the dart. VIOLA! you got an E7

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Old
08-18-2010, 08:01 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
Let me put it another way. It is pretty much a consensus on these boards and with the sports media that Toronto overpaid for Kessel. So if you are comparing the Kessel return to potential return for Ryan, you are starting your value at an over payment.

The overpayment for Kessel has nothing to do with fair value for Ryan.

Kadri = Future 30+ goal scorer and playmaking center with grit and two way ability

Shenn = Future #2 dominant defenseman who will dominate in the playoffs by shutting down opponents offense game after game. Possible captain material.

Ryan = great young winger with size. Proven 30 goal scorer and excellent complimentary player on any team''s top 6. Likely a 70 point winger his entire career.

So to recap ...

70 point winger < premier shutdown defensman + 70 point two way center
Classic HF Boards. Potential/Future + Potential/Future > Proven.

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Old
08-18-2010, 08:01 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
ya but you want to trade for a guy that was a #2 overall pick in the 2005 draft..
not a bad draft i recall either... lets see

Crosby
Ryan
Jack Johnson
Price
Setoguchi
Kopitar
M. Staal
Statsny
Rask
Neal

^ just a few for ya... so what's your point?
At this point, I would take Crosby, JJ, Kopitar, and Stastney all over Ryan. If I needed D, I would have no problem taking Staal over Ryan either.

Ryan is a very good player, but he is 23, and while he will still improve, he will likely top out at 80 pts (good but no elite).

Also keep in mind that any team negotiating with the Ducks get the RFA advantage. Its becoming clear Ryan wants a 3 year deal, and Murray simply cant go with that as he would have to resign his 3 best players in the same year.

And if Ryan isnt signed by season start, the Ducks will be hurt big time. Remember how the Bruins started last season?

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