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Old
08-18-2010, 07:37 PM
  #276
Chruceg
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(cropping mine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
(...)I know that it can be argued that Peter was simply the best option and that Randy Jones was as well (though god himself will strike down with great vengeance anyone who makes that argument) but if we had planned on utilizing our kids this up coming season then why wouldn't we have started their progression in ernest last year?(...)
The recently posted radio interview with Dean Lombardi raised an excellent point in regard to this. The question asked a little after half way through (sorry there is no time given on the broadcast) was "Do (the Kings) need to add more the backend?" Lombardi's initial answer was typical with "shoring up the backend would be something we'd look at" and "finding the right fit is important" but he raised two excellent points with his addendum.

The first is that the Kings need to give (even more) time to their stable of young defense prospects to develop. We should all keep in mind that with only a few exceptions the majority of defenseman don't break into the NHL until three or four years into their development. He commented that five of Manchester's six defenseman were 21 and under. That means the most development any of those five could have had would have been three years. I realize we all want to see the fruits of the draft as soon as possible but it isn't always the best decision.

Which brought Lombardi to his second point which was he thinks "the proper way to be trained (is) in the minors." This brings up a very important point that Lombardi has consistently brought up. Spending more time in the minors is better for player development. The examples of this are everywhere: Kyle Quincey, Brian Rafalski, Duncan Keith, and the pretty much the entire 2003 draft are excellent examples. I wish I could find the radio interview where he said this but Lombardi is "convinced" the reason why the 2003 draft was so good was because of the extra year everybody spent in the AHL. He's also repeatedly said that he is not just trying to get the players he drafted to the NHL he wants them to be good NHLers. He believes the best way to do this is through playing time in the minors.

These points together show us that the players weren't brought up because it's more important to the long term health of the organization that they spend time in the minors. I hated the Randy Jones era as much as you (and everybody else) did but I'm willing to stomach a half year of Jones if it means Hickey, Voynov, or Martinez become legit NHLers rather than highly touted flame outs. Could any of those three have played in the NHL this past season? Probably. Would it have likely stunted their development? Highly likely. It's just not worth the risk.

I honestly think Lombardi wants to give his defenseman, at least three, preferably four years of development before he breaks them in. I realize goaltenders are different but look at what he did with Bernier. He didn't want him to just play in the AHL; he wanted him to dominate the AHL. I think he wants the same to be done with his defenseman. Teach the prospects as much as possible in the minors and when they've mastered the AHL then move them up. This will lead to better players, playing longer, with less of a learning curve in the NHL.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:40 PM
  #277
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Exactly, which is why some of us are frustrated he hasn't added any veteran help...Voynov is only 19-20, Hickey played 1/2 a year in the AHL, Teubert hasn't even played in the AHL, and Muzzin has 14 AHL games under his belt. Voynov is the only one who has played more than 1 full season.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:50 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
No way. Better to have a bunch of kicks at the can (Cup) than actually get to grab the cup and hold on to it for an entire year!
I quoted you but this goes for Butch19 as well.

You two are both confusing the Blackhawks winning the cup with the Kings having a chance to win the cup. I completely agree that having the cup makes all of Chicago's cap troubles completely and totally worth it. The problem with your logic though is that there was only a chance that Chicago would win this year. Chicago was the best team going into the playoffs but even in my brief hockey memory (since '96) I can remember the best team going into the playoffs not winning the Stanley Cup several times.

If the Kings spent all the way to the cap this year they would only have one chance to win. Then Lombardi would likely have to dismantle the team to get it under the cap. It makes more sense to set up a team that has several chances to win the Stanley Cup rather than just one.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:51 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Exactly, which is why some of us are frustrated he hasn't added any veteran help...Voynov is only 19-20, Hickey played 1/2 a year in the AHL, Teubert hasn't even played in the AHL, and Muzzin has 14 AHL games under his belt. Voynov is the only one who has played more than 1 full season.
It's still only August 18th, an entire month before training camp starts. Lombardi will add some veterans before the camp opens.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:54 PM
  #280
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I'm starting to think if DL misses on Mitchell(likely), he will let Rookies fill out the D and let it be a crap shoot year.

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Old
08-18-2010, 07:58 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I'm starting to think if DL misses on Mitchell(likely), he will let Rookies fill out the roster and let it be a crap shoot year.
There is still Mottau and Mara available via UFA.

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Old
08-18-2010, 08:11 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I'm starting to think if DL misses on Mitchell(likely), he will let Rookies fill out the D and let it be a crap shoot year.
I doubt it. If DL misses out on Mitchell we'll see another Sean O'Donnell type move and Drewiske will get bottom pairing time until Greene's healthy. I'd be very surprised if anyone other than Voinov made the team out of camp this year...Unless Dean is actually expecting solid play from a guy like Fransson, but that seems to me just like last years Mikus acquisition.

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:00 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
(cropping mine)



The recently posted radio interview with Dean Lombardi raised an excellent point in regard to this. The question asked a little after half way through (sorry there is no time given on the broadcast) was "Do (the Kings) need to add more the backend?" Lombardi's initial answer was typical with "shoring up the backend would be something we'd look at" and "finding the right fit is important" but he raised two excellent points with his addendum.

The first is that the Kings need to give (even more) time to their stable of young defense prospects to develop. We should all keep in mind that with only a few exceptions the majority of defenseman don't break into the NHL until three or four years into their development. He commented that five of Manchester's six defenseman were 21 and under. That means the most development any of those five could have had would have been three years. I realize we all want to see the fruits of the draft as soon as possible but it isn't always the best decision.

Which brought Lombardi to his second point which was he thinks "the proper way to be trained (is) in the minors." This brings up a very important point that Lombardi has consistently brought up. Spending more time in the minors is better for player development. The examples of this are everywhere: Kyle Quincey, Brian Rafalski, Duncan Keith, and the pretty much the entire 2003 draft are excellent examples. I wish I could find the radio interview where he said this but Lombardi is "convinced" the reason why the 2003 draft was so good was because of the extra year everybody spent in the AHL. He's also repeatedly said that he is not just trying to get the players he drafted to the NHL he wants them to be good NHLers. He believes the best way to do this is through playing time in the minors.

These points together show us that the players weren't brought up because it's more important to the long term health of the organization that they spend time in the minors. I hated the Randy Jones era as much as you (and everybody else) did but I'm willing to stomach a half year of Jones if it means Hickey, Voynov, or Martinez become legit NHLers rather than highly touted flame outs. Could any of those three have played in the NHL this past season? Probably. Would it have likely stunted their development? Highly likely. It's just not worth the risk.

I honestly think Lombardi wants to give his defenseman, at least three, preferably four years of development before he breaks them in. I realize goaltenders are different but look at what he did with Bernier. He didn't want him to just play in the AHL; he wanted him to dominate the AHL. I think he wants the same to be done with his defenseman. Teach the prospects as much as possible in the minors and when they've mastered the AHL then move them up. This will lead to better players, playing longer, with less of a learning curve in the NHL.
I agree and thank you for further proving my point that we simply don't need to rush our kids up and if that is our plan for the coming season then we are making a mistake. Especially if we are expecting to simply throw them into the fire without any (or very little) actual NHL experience.

That is what I was trying to say in my other post. If DL does have a plan that is centered around playing several true rookie's as regulars next season then we are in serious trouble *and* we are risking the long term development of several of the young players/prospects that we are counting on being key parts of our future.

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:13 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I'm starting to think if DL misses on Mitchell(likely), he will let Rookies fill out the D and let it be a crap shoot year.
Definitely hope not, but have thought about what if we went with what we have and filled in holes with rookies. Pretty sure we miss playoffs, even if barely.

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:16 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNothing4 View Post
Definitely hope not, but have thought about what if we went with what we have and filled in holes with rookies. Pretty sure we miss playoffs, even if barely.
I agree. That's why it concerns me.

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:20 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I agree. That's why it concerns me.
Especially with the strong belief in leaving the kids in lower levels to develop where they'd get much more ice time. In that sense, it'd really hurt their development.

Guess it'd look like:

Smyth Kopitar Williams
Poni Stoll Brown
Rich Handzus Simmonds
Parse Schenn/Lewis/Cliche Westgarth
Clune Lewis/Cliche

Doughty Scuderi
Johnson Fransson/Hickey/Voynov/ Muzzin
Greene Drewiske/Martinez
Harrold

Quick
Bernier

Good for 10th maybe?


Last edited by KingNothing4: 08-18-2010 at 09:26 PM.
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Old
08-18-2010, 09:32 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNothing4 View Post
Especially with the strong belief in leaving the kids in lower levels to develop where they'd get much more ice time. In that sense, it'd really hurt their development.

Guess it'd look like:

Smyth Kopitar Williams
Poni Stoll Brown
Rich Handzus Simmonds
Parse Schenn/Lewis/Cliche Westgarth
Clune Lewis/Cliche

Doughty Scuderi
Johnson Fransson/Hickey/Voynov/ Muzzin
Greene Drewiske/Martinez
Harrold

Quick
Bernier

Good for 10th maybe?


LMAO!!!! That's the same team as last year... In fact their better.

How are they gonna drop 4 spots in standing when nobody in the west made any drastic improvements... In fact the best team (Chicago) is not as good as they where last year. An the 2nd best team (San Jose) lost their starting goalie....


Shamon now. Shamon'

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:51 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcard View Post
Unless Dean is actually expecting solid play from a guy like Fransson, but that seems to me just like last years Mikus acquisition.
A. Fransson came from the SEL playing a high level of Hockey, while Mikus came from a Slovakian league equivalent to the ECHL. Not a good comparison.

B. What makes you think Dean had any expectations when he signed Mikus? He was a very low risk signing that COULD turn into more. That's pretty much how I see Fransson, but with a better chance of making an impact either in Manchester or LA.

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:53 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree and thank you for further proving my point that we simply don't need to rush our kids up and if that is our plan for the coming season then we are making a mistake. Especially if we are expecting to simply throw them into the fire without any (or very little) actual NHL experience.

That is what I was trying to say in my other post. If DL does have a plan that is centered around playing several true rookie's as regulars next season then we are in serious trouble *and* we are risking the long term development of several of the young players/prospects that we are counting on being key parts of our future.
I think that was the whole point of his comment. That the Kings aren't bringing them up next year. A D-man will be acquired, Drewiske will get more playing time, and maybe one guy gets a spot out of camp if he blows the doors off. If not there are serviceable defenseman available as UFA that can fill in for 20 games. (ie Lilja, Hnidy, etc.)

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Old
08-18-2010, 09:56 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjae11Eden View Post
A. Fransson came from the SEL playing a high level of Hockey, while Mikus came from a Slovakian league equivalent to the ECHL. Not a good comparison.

B. What makes you think Dean had any expectations when he signed Mikus? He was a very low risk signing that COULD turn into more. That's pretty much how I see Fransson, but with a better chance of making an impact either in Manchester or LA.
I'm not cutting Fransson short, we just have no reason to believe that he'll step in as a solid NHLer which is why I'm not penciling him into any line-up. I'd love for him to surprise me though.

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Old
08-19-2010, 12:02 AM
  #291
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If Lombardi is gonna let the youngsters learn together in the minors I got no problem. But he should at least bring in a vet on D (Mitchell?) or some fwd depth (C.MaCarthur).

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Old
08-19-2010, 05:43 AM
  #292
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I wouldn't worry. Hasn't Dean's philosophy always been not rushing the kids? I think he is well aware of how much of a gamble the season becomes by filling the roster with rookies, especially on the defensive end. If he can't get something good by trade or in free agency (Mitchell) he'll probably sign some competent, serviceable guys to compete with the kids for spots. Not that it would be considered a roaring success by any means but at least there will be some experience on the blueline.

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08-19-2010, 08:01 AM
  #293
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LMAO!!!! That's the same team as last year... In fact their better.

How are they gonna drop 4 spots in standing when nobody in the west made any drastic improvements... In fact the best team (Chicago) is not as good as they where last year. An the 2nd best team (San Jose) lost their starting goalie....


Shamon now. Shamon'
I think you hit the nailon the head here. Everybody is so worried about how the Kings are going to do this year. With almost evry other team dropping and us having a tandem of Quick/Bernier we are not in that much trouble. Poni has is going to be great on the 3rd line. Id love a LW...a legitimate one but maybe we should wait until the trade deadline for that. Considering Dean has burried the Kovalchuk prophecy.

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Old
08-19-2010, 08:47 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by kingOmatic View Post
LMAO!!!! That's the same team as last year... In fact their better.

How are they gonna drop 4 spots in standing when nobody in the west made any drastic improvements... In fact the best team (Chicago) is not as good as they where last year. An the 2nd best team (San Jose) lost their starting goalie....


Shamon now. Shamon'
Yes but EDM is healthy, Mason should bounce back in CLB, DALL has the vets and Benn and Neil are a yr older, MINN may also be healthy with Burns and Bouchard and ST.L has added Halak and like LA their young players are a yr older. The West will be a dog fight.

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Old
08-19-2010, 09:22 AM
  #295
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I wouldn't worry. Hasn't Dean's philosophy always been not rushing the kids?
Exactly. If nothing else, Lombardi does bring in place holders. They may not be great, but they're there. Not a summer has gone by where Lombardi hasn't added at least one veteran defenseman. There's been no indication that this summer is or will be any different. The Kings may have missed out on some guys so far, but the interest has been there. Just because we can't make up our line combo's today, when there is no game tonight, tomorrow, next week, of even in a month, is no reason to be so anxious.

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08-19-2010, 09:29 AM
  #296
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Can't wait to see how Mr. Fransson does for us. We could all be pleasantly surprised. Weren't a bunch of teams trying to sign this guy?

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08-19-2010, 09:32 AM
  #297
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Wasn't Sean O'Donnell a very late addition as well? In retrospect he was a fantastic acquisition and we got him for nothing. Something will come up eventually.

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08-19-2010, 09:34 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
Can't wait to see how Mr. Fransson does for us. We could all be pleasantly surprised. Weren't a bunch of teams trying to sign this guy?
Wasn't his rights owned by the Kings? Though I seem to remember the Penguins having interest in him.

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Old
08-19-2010, 09:36 AM
  #299
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I figure there might be a trade sometime in September. I remember hearing DL speak once and he said that a lot of activity usually occurs at the Trade Deadline, July Free Agency and just before the season begins. We may just be in a holding pattern.

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Old
08-19-2010, 09:37 AM
  #300
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Quote:
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Wasn't his rights owned by the Kings? Though I seem to remember the Penguins having interest in him.
He was part of the Norstrom trade. The deadline to sign him had passed and other teams were after hm, mostly the Penguins but he still signed with the Kings.

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