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Dionne talks Habs and Francophones... "Not the Flying Frenchmen anymore"

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:19 AM
  #26
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yea, we should give a chance to francophones. And when we win we should all go to chucky cheeze.

Get real buddy, times have changed. All people like to do is whine about this issue, but when you use your head for just a minute you realize why it's simply not that possible anymore. Drafting has changed significantly than from the ''Flying Frenchmen Era''. There are a lot more teams. There's a lot more pressure on the players. There's EUROPEANS and a lot more good players coming from North America outside Quebec.

It's quite easy to whine about draft picks once they're up in the NHL. Hard part is to do it at the draft table.
But we changed most of our scouting team and the replacements are good.

This french debate is beyond ridiculous. At this point I just can't wait for a Qc team to reappear just to see how well they stock up on Qc born players.
If you think about it, it probably wouldn't require "stocking up". All it would take is that one French player that even kids outside Quebec grow up wanting to be like. That's what Montreal has been missing for, well, at least a decade. That one French guy that is so good that hockey fans in Quebec can look everyone else in the eye with pride and say "See, you wanna be like him, too." That was the power of players like Roy, and even Lecavalier to an extent.

Having a team full of Lapierres, Latendresses, and Begins, etc wouldn't achieve anything as no one outside Quebec has ever cared about them, and they did nothing to remind everyone else that quality hockey players can come from Quebec, too. And I think that's part of what it comes down to: even one star French player can help legitimize Quebec's relevance among top talent-producing areas, and that's where the pride derives from, imo, with extra bonus for those who have brought a championship "back home".

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08-20-2010, 11:20 AM
  #27
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I'm guessing that one of the old guard french reporters says something along the lines of: "What does Dionne know, his brain got fried due to too many days on the LA beaches" or something to that effect

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:21 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
I'm sorry, but in this day and age....francophone players aren't the best players in the league anymore so it doesn't matter what country the players are from, as long as they are good and come play hockey in Montreal to win.....thats all that matters.

If the Habs signed 20 players from Russia, United States or China because they are the best players in the league, then thats fine by me.....I could care less if there is 1 french player on the Habs....just as long as the team plays hard on the ice and wants to win.

Having rotten french players on the team just to say we have french players is a poor way to run a business. Management should be signing players based on their skill and desire to win....not what language they speak.
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.

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08-20-2010, 11:23 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Why so much talk about nothing ?

Next opening game at the Bell in October, there will be only ONE French-speaking Quebecer in the line up: Maxim Lapierre, a borderline 3rd-4th line NHL player,

Hurray !!!

Good job Gainey, Gauthier and Timmins.

If Lapierre could be traded or injured, that would be just perfect.

And we would have that jerk from RDS trying to make interviews in English between periods. What a blast !

100 Years of Les Canadiens de Montréal is enough.

Let's now really switch to the Montreal Canadians !
Did we trade Pouliot?

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08-20-2010, 11:23 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
Ouch......that hurts

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:24 AM
  #31
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but you're right that there were a LOT of opportunities to get just that one guy who could have shut up the extremists and possibly made it easier on everyone else.

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08-20-2010, 11:24 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Unfortunately, the franco kids probably don't want the pressure...the expectations put on the Habs draft picks, no matter french or english seem somewhat unrealistic at times.......the media and the fans can create alot of stress for young players...
On the TSN website today Frantisek Kaberle (Tomas' father) is saying the same thing about the Leafs and the pressure that "Leaf Nation" (including the media) puts on players.

Some players can thrive on pressure and others shy away. In recent years we've been hard after players like Martin Lapointe and Daniel Briere and they chose to play elsewhere. Francophone players have got to want to play here. It's a two-way street when lamenting on how many homegrowns are on the team.

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08-20-2010, 11:25 AM
  #33
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Yeah there's always the "what if"s in the draft... What if the Sens pick Pronger instead of Daigle..? Drafts are full of it. They thought the guy they picked had more potential than the Quebecer that was drafted after... just like ALL the guys drafted after...

As for Timmins, I think he does a great job at finding future NHL players... just not the Elite one yet. But look at our prospects, I love our pool. Way better than alot of teams. Sometimes players don't live up to their potential and you can't really do much about it.

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08-20-2010, 11:27 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by fish22100 View Post
Did we trade Pouliot?

Pouliot is French Ontarian :O ALtho I'm pretty sure we re-signed Darche ;P

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:30 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
Again, it's very easy to say that now, not so much on draft day. At the time, the Habs (and other teams), didn't think those players would be as good as players selected before them. It's easy to point out players from Quebec who have made an impact in the NHL, but you can find plenty of them who haven't. Did the Habs make a mistake by not drafting them? You have to select who you think will be the best player for your team, no matter what. If they start picking players for what language they speak, things will become even worse.

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Originally Posted by drizzy View Post
Pouliot is French Ontarian :O ALtho I'm pretty sure we re-signed Darche ;P
Wow, I totally missed the "Quebecer" part. My bad, lol.

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:41 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
Out of these four examples, two guys we drafted instead (Chouinard and Urquhart) were also "from our backyard", so I'm not sure this prove what you thought it would prove...

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08-20-2010, 11:42 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
I think anyone can recognize this is true. Heck, I’m an Anglo ex-Pat Montrealer, but I know the importance of having local talent on the team. That being said, it becomes dangerous (in a sense) when you actively try to ensure a certain amount of local flavour on the team as well. For every example of a local guy who should have been kept/drafted, there is probably an equal # of examples of local guys who should not be kept/drafted. I think you would agree it is a difficult balance to try and have.
This is true, but it remains true for all the americans we drafted. There's an equal number we should/shouldn't draft. Case in point : Fischer. No matter who we draft this is always going to be true.

And having more and better scouts in the Q maybe could help with that. After all we drafted Urquhart instead of Bergeron, Fischer instead of Giroux. McDo and Pac over Perron.

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I doubt any rational person could claim the Habs are actively trying to remove local talent from the team simply because they are local. Where I do agree is the Habs should have by far the best scouting in the league in the Q, and should make every effort to acquire local talent that makes sense for the team. For course, you have to be careful with that as well, because if everyone else knows that is the goal of the Habs, teams will take advantage of it in trade negotiations, and agents will take advantage of it in contract negotiations.
No, I don't think anyone rational believes the habs are getting rid of local players.

That being said, one could argue that the quality of our scouts in the Q has been pretty bad. Wasn't our main scout in the Q an ex-ref with no real skill/experience as a scout ? It would be an easy fix, we just need to throw a little bit more money at the Q scouting to make sure that nothing slips past our attention.

We also need to make sure the local talent we do have isn't simply discarded or traded for scraps.

Quote:
It is a difficult job, and I also think everyone would agree that winning, would remove pretty much all the pressure for local talent. Unfortunately, this hasn’t occurred, so the reality is where we sit today, people debating a trade of a 3rd/4th sting goalie far too much.
Yes victories are the balm to all wounds.

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:47 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by fish22100 View Post
You realize the Habs weren't the only team not to pick those players, right? It's easy to say what they should or shouldn't have done now, but at the time they had to make what they thought was the best move for the team. I'm all for drafting french players, but not if it means not picking a guy who they feel is a better fit for the team. Letang for example was only selected in the 3rd round, but you only criticize the Habs for not picking him. Now that he's established player in the league, it's much easier to say the Habs should have picked him. Yeah we missed out on good players, but so does every other team. A bunch of teams missed out on guys like Subban and Plekanec, but you don't applaud the team for those good picks.
Yes it is easy to say that Letang turn out good since he already established himself in the league. But I dare to say that passing up on guys like Charles-Olivier Roussel, Nicolas Deslauriers and Jerome Gauthier-Leduc will hurt us in the future. Still, no Mcdonagh nor Fischer in the league yet. Sure, Timmins had some great picks in Subban, Kristo and Leblanc, but you do know that some scouts don't even come to watch Rouyn Noranda's games and that's where the Canadien should take profit and scout better in the Q. Giving the fact that some NHL teams don't even care about the Q, but when it comes to the NHL, those from the Q usually turn out really good. Why does Pittsburgh take chances on Letang, and even Després? Because somewhere they know that these players will become good NHLers.

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08-20-2010, 11:55 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
Our development is a bigger question mark than our drafting. There's no guarantee these guys would be where they are today if they came through our system.

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Old
08-20-2010, 11:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Yes it is easy to say that Letang turn out good since he already established himself in the league. But I dare to say that passing up on guys like Charles-Olivier Roussel, Nicolas Deslauriers and Jerome Gauthier-Leduc will hurt us in the future. Still, no Mcdonagh nor Fischer in the league yet. Sure, Timmins had some great picks in Subban, Kristo and Leblanc, but you do know that some scouts don't even come to watch Rouyn Noranda's games and that's where the Canadien should take profit and scout better in the Q. Giving the fact that some NHL teams don't even care about the Q, but when it comes to the NHL, those from the Q usually turn out really good. Why does Pittsburgh take chances on Letang, and even Després? Because somewhere they know that these players will become good NHLers.
It all remains to be seen. I've seen a few people saying McDonagh might make the jump as soon as this year. I'm not a big fan of Deslauriers and we picked Bennett before him, a guy who has been getting some very positive comments since he was drafted. I'll give you Fischer, he was a bad pick, but every team makes them. With guys like Subban, Leblanc and Kristo, I just don't think the scouting is as bad as some people say. I guess we'll know in a few years.

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Old
08-20-2010, 12:06 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.

Well I agree.....the team should be taking the best players available regardless!!! The fact that those players you listed were overlooked, speaks volumes to how rotten our management and scouting was during those years. The fact that those players were french means nothing, its just a coincidence IMO. I'm sure there were better
players available than Giroux, Gagne, Perron and Bergeron that were from Russia or Sweden or wherever.

The management and scouts need to be professionals that know how to do the job they are asked to do, instead of a bunch of ex-players who needed a job.

Its nice to see former Habs stay within the organization and stuff, but if they can't do a job because they don't have the smarts....then they should be let go and professionals should be hired.

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Old
08-20-2010, 12:18 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
To be fair though, 2 of those guys are from the Q as well and some of the players not picked by us probably became best player available at the time they were drafted. Bergeron was missed by everyone, some teams twice.

Bottom line is the draft is a crapshoot, you never really know how the players will develop. I would love to have more French Canadian stars on the team and I am not from Quebec, but it becomes difficult with the amount of teams and competition for their services.

What does bother me is Montreal always invites undrafted Q guys to camp and even signs some of them but they don't get enough credit for that, not too mention Montreal is far above average with respect to French content in the system but everyone harps on Fisher over Giroux or Maxpac over Perron(which is too close to call yet imo). The high end guys continually shun Montreal, why doesn't the media focus on that more?

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Old
08-20-2010, 12:22 PM
  #43
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Well I agree.....the team should be taking the best players available regardless!!! The fact that those players you listed were overlooked, speaks volumes to how rotten our management and scouting was during those years. The fact that those players were french means nothing, its just a coincidence IMO. I'm sure there were better
players available than Giroux, Gagne, Perron and Bergeron that were from Russia or Sweden or wherever.

The management and scouts need to be professionals that know how to do the job they are asked to do, instead of a bunch of ex-players who needed a job.

Its nice to see former Habs stay within the organization and stuff, but if they can't do a job because they don't have the smarts....then they should be let go and professionals should be hired.
I agree that the scouting team knows absolutely more than any of us here, but sometimes, the best player available is a french canadian. It's easy to say look where this player end up compared to this other one. But, seriously, did Timmins and company watched the Super Series at all in 2007? The series where great players demonstrated all their skill and potential. Did Timmins see how good Perron was at the time? As good as Kyle Turris and Gagner? I remember that I really liked him because of those series and picking Patches hurted. I like Pacioretty and I want him to become the powerforward we were looking for, for so long. But, as for now, Perron already has 3 NHL seasons under his belt comparing to Pacioretty..and Mcdo.

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08-20-2010, 12:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DirtyJeeves View Post
Our development is a bigger question mark than our drafting. There's no guarantee these guys would be where they are today if they came through our system.
That's how I look at it. It's so easy to say that we made the wrong choices, but who says that they wouldn't have mediocre careers? Like you said, our development is the bigger problem, not how we draft.

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08-20-2010, 12:30 PM
  #45
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And having more and better scouts in the Q maybe could help with that. After all we drafted Urquhart instead of Bergeron, Fischer instead of Giroux. McDo and Pac over Perron.
The funny part is that St-Louis passed on Perron with 2 picks too, does their scouting is bad too? If it is then maybe they only took a gamble on Perron and got lucky, if not then I would like to understand why for St-Louis it's ok, but for Montreal it's bad...

To me, it's not a question of should we get more Quebecers, its a question of why Latendresse started producing when he left, why Ribeiro was better in Dallas?

Those questions brings me to another one, would Perron, Giroux, etc. would be as good if they were playing for Montreal? Would they even have played that many game if they would have been drafted by Montreal?

I think that development and pressure are things to criticize way before the number of quebecers on the team...

Would we care about the number of local players on the team if we had Crosby or Ovechkin? I don't think so...

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08-20-2010, 12:45 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort
.
No, you don't.

You draft the BPA according to your staff and that's it. Toronto, Calgary, Ottawa etc don't go out of their way to draft kids playing in their own backyard, so WHY should we? Because we're in a francophone province? Is that seriously a factor anymore? The days of the all-French lineups are done, mon ami, and they ain't coming back because that's not how teams are managed these days.

Management builds the best team possible, regardless of where playerscome from. They believed those guys were better than the Quebec counterparts you mentioned, so they chose them. That's an entirely different topic though (talent evaluation).

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08-20-2010, 12:58 PM
  #47
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Couturier is NOT Quebecois!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wikipedia says he was born in Phoenix and then moved to Bathurst, New ****ing Brunswick!
If a guy was born from a canadian mother and father in China and lived there for a few years then move back to Canada would you consider him a Chinese or a Canadian?

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08-20-2010, 12:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
This is true, but it remains true for all the americans we drafted. There's an equal number we should/shouldn't draft. Case in point : Fischer. No matter who we draft this is always going to be true.

And having more and better scouts in the Q maybe could help with that. After all we drafted Urquhart instead of Bergeron, Fischer instead of Giroux. McDo and Pac over Perron.
We all recognize that drafting in an imperfect science. I'd simply be concerned if there is too much emphases placed on local talent, adding an additional level of complexity to that imperfect science. Though, one could argue that we currently have that extra level, given our current preference for US born or trained players.

Quote:
No, I don't think anyone rational believes the habs are getting rid of local players.

That being said, one could argue that the quality of our scouts in the Q has been pretty bad. Wasn't our main scout in the Q an ex-ref with no real skill/experience as a scout ? It would be an easy fix, we just need to throw a little bit more money at the Q scouting to make sure that nothing slips past our attention.
Like I said, I think it is inexcusable for us not to have the absolute best scouting in the Q. It is the teams backyard. Really, I think if members of the media really hammered the team over this, it would be much more beneficial than discussing/blowing up a trade of minor league goalies.

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We also need to make sure the local talent we do have isn't simply discarded or traded for scraps.
Agreed, though I would extend that comment to all the talent this team has regardless of birthplace. Though I understand why it is even more important for local talent.

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Yes victories are the balm to all wounds
As we saw with this year's playoffs, if you win, it doesn't matter where you are from.

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08-20-2010, 01:18 PM
  #49
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Waiting to hear from Rejeaune. What's taking so long?

Great words from Dionne, so true, yet the truth will fall on flat ears when it comes to morons like Rejeaune (I will not give him the satisfaction of spelling his name right, even if he won't read this ) and Labbe.
I'd spell it Ré-jaune. Réjaune seems to think on a simplistic Animal Farm level: French Canadian good, English (or Russian, Swedish, Finnish, Czech, Slovak, etc.) bad. Seriously, several things have stood in the way of the Habs' assembling a Flying Frenchman team apart from any prejudice of Trevor Timmins in favor of USHL or NCAA talent:

1) The abolition of the territorial right to draft two Québécois.
2) Expansion from 6 to 12 and ultimately 30 teams, which dilutes the pool of worthwhile francophone players in every round of the draft.
3) The unwillingness of the original Molson ownership to pay top salaries, which resulted in the trade of several francophone stars (e.g., Damphousse).
4) Inept drafting by three Québécois GMs in a row (Sege Savard, Réjean Houle, and André Savard).
5) An unwillingness of Québécois free agents to come to Montréal E.g., Vincent Lecavalier) and a desire to get out of Montréal (e.g., Guillaume Latendresse).
6) Influx of European and American talent.
7) The inability of the QMJHL and lower leagues in the province to develop NHL-worthy players.

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Old
08-20-2010, 01:18 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Agree...
But when you have a chance to draft

Giroux instead of Fischer

Gagné instead of Chouinard

Perron instead of Paccioretty

Bergeron instead of Uruquart...

An these kids are playing in your own backyard, you HAVE to make the effort.
I can play this too.

I wish we would have done this instead.

Antoine Lafleur instead of PK Subban
Nick Petersen instead of Alexander Avitsin
Alex Bourret instead of Carey Price
Danick Paquette instead of Danny Kristo.

Am I doing it right ? Do you like getting embarrassed ?

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