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Old
08-23-2010, 09:20 AM
  #26
Bryz4shiz
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We either lose in the first round or go back to the cup.

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Old
08-23-2010, 09:20 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janssen25 View Post
If they move Zubrus, they'll plug in Jacob Josefson who was a 1st round pick who is a top tier prospect who is NHL ready. If they move a wing like Rolston or Langs then they'll plug in Mattias Tedenby, another 1st round pick who also is NHL ready.

Also, the Devils are better on D then they were last year. Andy Greene who you speak of had 37 points last year and was a +9. They lost Martin then added two big guys in Volchenkov and Tallinder.

The Devils finished 2nd in the East last year and have improved their roster, but you feel all of a sudden they will not make the playoffs. That's completely ludicrous.
You say these guys are NHl ready, yet neither have played even an AHL game and have barely hit 20 points in the SEL. I know European hockey is lower scoring, and I am not saying these guys aren't legit prospects, but two twenty year old rookies who haven't played American hockey aren't locks to fill any roles. Not saying they won't fill those roles, but it isn't as easy as saying, "Oh well we have these two prospects who have never played even in the AHL and are twenty years old." I just don't think the Devils will make it this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I am not saying they are a terrible team and have no shot, I just think they will finish around 9th or 10th. The Devils have no depth. One serious injury to an important player or multiple small injuries to a number of players and NJ is in a lot of trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Yeah man, I don't agree with you at all.

Devils, Flyers and Pens all make the playoffs this year.
Most people seem to not agree with me with whatever I say on here.

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Old
08-23-2010, 09:25 AM
  #28
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Slowing down Brodeur was one of Vezina finalists last year yet again.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 08-23-2010 at 09:31 AM.
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Old
08-23-2010, 09:27 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Most people seem to not agree with me with whatever I say on here.
Just giving my opinion. Kovalchuk or not, the Devils will be a force this season.

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08-23-2010, 10:10 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Yeah man, I don't agree with you at all.

Devils, Flyers and Pens all make the playoffs this year.
Agreed. All should easily make the playoffs and could finish in any order from 1 thru 3 in the Atlantic depending on injuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You say these guys are NHl ready, yet neither have played even an AHL game and have barely hit 20 points in the SEL. I know European hockey is lower scoring, and I am not saying these guys aren't legit prospects, but two twenty year old rookies who haven't played American hockey aren't locks to fill any roles. Not saying they won't fill those roles, but it isn't as easy as saying, "Oh well we have these two prospects who have never played even in the AHL and are twenty years old." I just don't think the Devils will make it this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I am not saying they are a terrible team and have no shot, I just think they will finish around 9th or 10th. The Devils have no depth. One serious injury to an important player or multiple small injuries to a number of players and NJ is in a lot of trouble.
So you're saying that replacing Rob Niedermeyer with a top-tier prospect will move the Devils from 2nd in the East to 9th or 10th in the East.

The Devils have no depth? Are you kidding me?

You're completely lost.

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Old
08-23-2010, 01:02 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Just giving my opinion. Kovalchuk or not, the Devils will be a force this season.
Agree. Several times, I've thought that the Devils were surely done. Yet they still contend. They've just nailed some sort of team culture that's infectious from generation to generation of player.

Until they're 20 points out of a playoff spot with 4 games to play, I'm not counting them out.

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Old
08-23-2010, 02:43 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janssen25 View Post
So you're saying that replacing Rob Niedermeyer with a top-tier prospect will move the Devils from 2nd in the East to 9th or 10th in the East.

The Devils have no depth? Are you kidding me?

You're completely lost.
I'm saying as a whole, I don't think that the Devils will make the playoffs. I don't believe they have the depth. If Parise goes down who steps up to score 40 goals? If Volchenkov goes down who steps up to be that shut down defender? If Brodeur goes down who steps up to be the anchor in net? Like I said earlier, even as it stands now with no Kovy, the third and fourth lines are going to be filled with unproven or unheard of players. It is going to be tough to make the playoffs with only two legit lines with the improvements other teams in the conference have made. I asked earlier what the projected lines will be with or without Kovalchuk and you never responded. If you showed me that I was incorrect, perhaps I would change my mind. But just by throwing out the names of two prospects who have never played even an AHL game will not get me to change my mind. So lets start with seeing what those lines will be. I don't follow the Devils as much as I follow the Flyers so I could be way off so please correct me if (when) I am wrong, but here is what I have as their starters:

Parise-Arnott-Elias
Rolston-Zajac-Lengenbrunner
Zubrus-Clarckson-Zharkov
Letourneau Leblond-Pelley-XXX

Volchenkov-Tallinder
White-Salvador
Salmella-Greene

Brodeur
Hedberg

These lines are just a shot in the dark and are probably way off. Obviously that can change if one of the top prospects shines or if Kovalchuk signs which will make it a lot different. If Elias scores thirty and everyone stays healthy, I think they can make the playoffs, but if you guys get bit with the injury bug and Elias continues to not play like his former self, you're in trouble. I don't know how you can look at that lineup and say that they are a shoe-in to make the playoffs and act like I am crazy for saying they have no depth. The defense is better than I originally gave them credit for but as it stands now with no Kovalchuk, that offense doesn't scare me too much. Please correct those lines because I am almost 100% sure they are wrong.

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Old
08-23-2010, 02:45 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundevil9 View Post
Agree. Several times, I've thought that the Devils were surely done. Yet they still contend. They've just nailed some sort of team culture that's infectious from generation to generation of player.

Until they're 20 points out of a playoff spot with 4 games to play, I'm not counting them out.
I thought for sure they would fall apart after Rafalski to DET and Scott Stevens retired. Yet here they are still claiming division titles. They could definately take 1st. Like the above poster says. Probably the team who stays healthiest wins the Atlantic.

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Old
08-23-2010, 03:12 PM
  #34
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To DrinkFightFlyers:

New Jersey, 249 man-games lost to injury last year. Thats top 10. (if I am not mistaken)

NJ have enough depth to replace their players and finish at the top. In the past they replaced their top key players with out any problems. ever players like M.Brodeur their #1 d-men like P.Martin and many others.

remove David Clarkson from center.


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Old
08-23-2010, 04:04 PM
  #35
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Old
08-23-2010, 04:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CptCannon View Post
Caps
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One of the top 3 has to be from the NE divsion.

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Old
08-23-2010, 05:01 PM
  #37
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One of the top 3 has to be from the NE divsion.
Oops, yeah forgot. That's how I'd expect the standings to be points-wise anyway.

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Old
08-23-2010, 05:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janssen25 View Post

The Devils have no depth? Are you kidding me?

You're completely lost.
not much depth beyond the big club.

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Old
08-23-2010, 05:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
not much depth beyond the big club.
Not much depth beyond the top two lines and top two defensive pairings. I don't think I am out of line by saying that a major player not playing to expectations and/or a serious injury could derail the team. I know they are the Devils and always find a way to win, but that is not something I would rely on as a fall back plan.

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Old
08-23-2010, 06:36 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not much depth beyond the top two lines and top two defensive pairings. I don't think I am out of line by saying that a major player not playing to expectations and/or a serious injury could derail the team. I know they are the Devils and always find a way to win, but that is not something I would rely on as a fall back plan.
I don't know man, that's kind of reaching. One could easily say the same thing about our team or any team for that matter.

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Old
08-23-2010, 07:56 PM
  #41
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flyers finish 3r din the division.
thrashers make the playoffs. Lightening do not

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Old
08-23-2010, 08:32 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
I don't know man, that's kind of reaching. One could easily say the same thing about our team or any team for that matter.
I don't think that is the case. If someone underperforms on this team, there are multiple guys that can step up. All hypothetical at this point, but if Jeff Carter gets injured in game one for the season, the Flyers still have Richards, Briere, Giroux, Leino, JVR, Zherdev, and Hartnell who could potentially step up and fill the role of the go to points guy. Giroux, Leino, and JVR may be reaching at this point because they haven't done much, but Richards, Hartnell, and Briere have all had solid seasons. If Parise goes down (and Kovy is not on the team) there is not some one on that team that I would be too worried about facing, unless Elias returns to form. And even if Kovy is there they will have to lose at least one contract, but probably more. Capgeek has them at 3.7 under the cap with no Kovy. Add Kovy to that and they are at least $3 mil over (Not sure what the numbers will look like but I would guess around $7 mil a year for Kovy?) with just 21 guys under contract. They will have to lose at least one guy but probably more. If Pronger goes down (which has already happened and the season isn't even started) I am still confident that this defense is one of the best in the league. If Volchenkov goes down, where is that top tier shut down d-man that will step up? Tallinder is solid, but he is not a #1. Same thing with White and Salvador. And if one of them moves up to the top line who fills in? Hedberg is a solid backup and the Devils have way better depth there than the Flyers do, but not many teams have two legit starters anyway so that is really a moot point.

Maybe I was a little rash in saying that the Devils won't make the playoffs (wishful thinking?), so I will change what I have said to be that if they stay healthy they will make the playoffs, but they don't have the depth to overcome serious underperformance or serious/multiple injuries.

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Old
08-24-2010, 07:14 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
To DrinkFightFlyers:

New Jersey, 249 man-games lost to injury last year. Thats top 10. (if I am not mistaken)

NJ have enough depth to replace their players and finish at the top. In the past they replaced their top key players with out any problems. ever players like M.Brodeur their #1 d-men like P.Martin and many others.

remove David Clarkson from center.
You are correct. The Devils were ranked #10 in man games lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm saying as a whole, I don't think that the Devils will make the playoffs. I don't believe they have the depth. If Parise goes down who steps up to score 40 goals? If Volchenkov goes down who steps up to be that shut down defender? If Brodeur goes down who steps up to be the anchor in net?

Kovalchuk is on the verge of signing so you may as well add him to the line-up. Their top 2 lines are as good as anyone in the league. Their 3rd line will be one of the best in the league with a combo or Rolston/Tedenby, Zubrus/Josefson and Clarkson.

The Devils don't need to worry about shut down Defenseman. They have plenty 9Salvador, Volchenkov, White). If you didn't notice, last year the Devils lost their #1 d-man almost all year and still managed to finish #2 in the East and win the division. The season before they lost Brodeur for almost the entire season and still managed to finish 3rd in the East and win the division. BTW that was with freakin Scott Clemmensen in net. Now they have one of the best back-ups in the league in Hedberg.

If anyone has proven they can deal with injuries it's the Devils so your claim that an injury will "derail the team" is bogus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't think that is the case. If someone underperforms on this team, there are multiple guys that can step up. All hypothetical at this point, but if Jeff Carter gets injured in game one for the season, the Flyers still have Richards, Briere, Giroux, Leino, JVR, Zherdev, and Hartnell who could potentially step up and fill the role of the go to points guy. Giroux, Leino, and JVR may be reaching at this point because they haven't done much, but Richards, Hartnell, and Briere have all had solid seasons.
Again the Devils are signing Kovalchuk so add him to the Devils line-up.

You say if a guy like Carter goes down the Flyers have multiple guys who can "step up." You're right they do to an extent, but the Devils don't?

Lets compare the players you named to the Devils players who could "step up:"

Say Carter and Parise go down:
1)Richards 62 pts. / Kovalchuk 85 pts.
2)Briere 53 pts. / Zajac 67 pts.
3)Giroux 47 pts. / Langenbrunner 61 pts.

Do I need to continue?

I think you're better off stating that you felt like make an outlandish claim out of thin air that the Devils won't make the playoffs and admit that you have absolutely no facts to back it up.

Just to be clear, I am in no way stating the Devils will win the Cup or will finish ahead of the Flyers. I'm simply stating that the claim that the Devils will not make the playoffs is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on this site and that's saying a lot.

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:14 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janssen25 View Post
Kovalchuk is on the verge of signing so you may as well add him to the line-up. Their top 2 lines are as good as anyone in the league. Their 3rd line will be one of the best in the league with a combo or Rolston/Tedenby, Zubrus/Josefson and Clarkson.
I left Kovalchuk off because he hasn't signed yet and the lines will look a lot different with him on the team because at least one if not more guys will have to be shipped out depending on what he signs for. A third line that potentially will have two rookies on it cannot be said to be one of the best in the league until they actually play a game. It's possible that they could wind up being a great third line, but they have never played a game in the NHL and I am not going to say that two rookies and David Clarkson are the best third liners in the league. Talking about the Devils lines is actually pretty silly right now because if Kovalchuk gets like $7 million (which I assume he will) the Devils will have to shed two salaries at least.

Quote:
The Devils don't need to worry about shut down Defenseman. They have plenty 9Salvador, Volchenkov, White). If you didn't notice, last year the Devils lost their #1 d-man almost all year and still managed to finish #2 in the East and win the division. The season before they lost Brodeur for almost the entire season and still managed to finish 3rd in the East and win the division. BTW that was with freakin Scott Clemmensen in net. Now they have one of the best back-ups in the league in Hedberg.

If anyone has proven they can deal with injuries it's the Devils so your claim that an injury will "derail the team" is bogus.
I wouldn't call Salvador and White shut-down d-men, at least not of the caliber of Volchenkov. They are good defenseman, not knocking them, but if Volchenkov goes down for an extended period, there is nobody on the team that could really replace him. I know the Devils finished #2 last season, but it's a new year, my friend and it would tough to lose a #1 d-man several years in a row and not feel it.



Quote:
Again the Devils are signing Kovalchuk so add him to the Devils line-up.

You say if a guy like Carter goes down the Flyers have multiple guys who can "step up." You're right they do to an extent, but the Devils don't?

Lets compare the players you named to the Devils players who could "step up:"

Say Carter and Parise go down:
1)Richards 62 pts. / Kovalchuk 85 pts.
2)Briere 53 pts. / Zajac 67 pts.
3)Giroux 47 pts. / Langenbrunner 61 pts.

Do I need to continue?
Those are not exactly telling numbers. With a team like the Flyers, the points are spread out a lot more because of the depth. Not everyone is going to get 100 points because that would just ridiculous. If Richards or Carter (or even both) went down with a long term injury, obviously that would be a major blow to the team, but it would not definitely mean the season was lost. If Parise and Kovy went down, I think you could pretty well count the Devils out. These are a lot of ifs, but injuries happen. Again, the Devils depth is likely going to get even weaker when Kovalchuk signs because they will have to get rid of guys (My guess is Zubrus and Salvador).

Quote:
I think you're better off stating that you felt like make an outlandish claim out of thin air that the Devils won't make the playoffs and admit that you have absolutely no facts to back it up.

Just to be clear, I am in no way stating the Devils will win the Cup or will finish ahead of the Flyers. I'm simply stating that the claim that the Devils will not make the playoffs is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on this site and that's saying a lot.
That is ridiculous. It is a fair statement to make a prediction that the Devils won't make the playoffs. It is nothing more than a prediction and I changed what I originally said because you were right, the Devils are a better team than I initially gave them credit for, but I don't think they have the depth to withstand a serious injury or rash of injuries. We'll see in a few weeks.

Here is what I got from CapGeek about the lines. Not too sure about positioning but salary wise the Devils will probably wind up looking SOMETHING like this. I assume they will add a defenseman before the season starts because in this scenario they have some cap space. If they could move Rolston that would be in the team's best interest, but I am not sure of who would take that contract. Also the lines probably won't look like this because I doubt they would stick a promising rookie on the fourth line. Anyway, flame on:

FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($3.125m) / Travis Zajac ($3.887m) / Ilya Kovalchuk ($7.000m)
Brian Rolston ($5.062m) / Jason Arnott ($4.500m) / Patrik Elias ($6.000m)
Jamie Langenbrunner ($2.800m) / Mattias Tedenby ($0.875m) / David Clarkson ($2.666m)
Jacob Josefson ($0.900m) / Rod Pelley ($0.550m) / Vladimir Zharkov ($0.850m)

DEFENSEMEN
Anton Volchenkov ($4.250m) / Henrik Tallinder ($3.375m)
Colin White ($3.000m) / Anssi Salmela ($0.612m)
Andy Greene ($0.737m) / Mark Fraser ($0.500m)
Alexander Urbom ($0.870m)

GOALTENDERS
Martin Brodeur ($5.200m) /Johan Hedberg ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS: Jay Pandolfo ($0.833m) / Andrew Peters ($0.166m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,261,667; BONUSES: $1,050,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,188,333


Last edited by DrinkFightFlyers: 08-24-2010 at 08:42 AM.
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Old
08-25-2010, 07:58 AM
  #45
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That is ridiculous. It is a fair statement to make a prediction that the Devils won't make the playoffs.
You have the right to make any prediction/opinion you like. I'm just stating that I haven't heard anybody in the hockey world say the Devils won't make the playoffs.

They finished 2nd in the East last year while being injured for most of the season. This season they will be putting a better team on the ice than last but somehow you have them dropping from 2nd to at least 9th in the East. They've made the playoffs 13 years in a row and 16 of the last 17 seasons with FAR worse teams than this year.

Basically, your prediction that the Devils won't make the playoffs is flat out idiotic. But again, you're entitled to your opinion.

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08-25-2010, 09:35 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janssen25 View Post
You have the right to make any prediction/opinion you like. I'm just stating that I haven't heard anybody in the hockey world say the Devils won't make the playoffs.

They finished 2nd in the East last year while being injured for most of the season. This season they will be putting a better team on the ice than last but somehow you have them dropping from 2nd to at least 9th in the East. They've made the playoffs 13 years in a row and 16 of the last 17 seasons with FAR worse teams than this year.

Basically, your prediction that the Devils won't make the playoffs is flat out idiotic. But again, you're entitled to your opinion.
I don't see this as being a better team. It is a better top two lines and better top defensive pairing. But like I said, the third and fourth lines and third defensive pairing are going to be suspect when Kovalchuk signs and people have to be moved. As it stands now you are looking at potentially four or five rookies playing for your team. If they all play to their potential and everyone stays healthy, then the Devils will make the playoffs, but that rarely happens. It is also going to come down a lot to what Kovalchuk signs for. More than $7 mil and the Devils are in a lot of trouble with the cap (unless they can unload Rolston). Less than $7 mil and the team can possibly fill out the holes by keeping more players. What kind of numbers is Kovy talking? I figure it will be somewhere around $7 million. Also could you please comment on the lines I posted in the last response? I would like to know if they are anywhere near correct and if they are, how you can think that that team is better than last years.

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Old
08-25-2010, 01:27 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
flyers finish 3r din the division.
thrashers make the playoffs. Lightening do not
Atlanta will make the playoffs behind their number 1 offensive threat, big Buff's 35 points and -30?

There is no way TBL does not make the playoffs, they are stacking up this year.

Gagne
Lecav
St.Louis
Downie
Stamkos
Torres

That is one of the best top 6's in the league.

They also solidifed the net by adding Ellis in case Smith has another pedestrian year.

Even their defense should be improved with Hedman's progression and the subtraction of Meszaros who just wasn't fitting there.

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Old
08-25-2010, 01:33 PM
  #48
Garbage Goal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Atlanta will make the playoffs behind their number 1 offensive threat, big Buff's 35 points and -30?

There is no way TBL does not make the playoffs, they are stacking up this year.

Gagne
Lecav
St.Louis
Downie
Stamkos
Torres

That is one of the best top 6's in the league.

They also solidifed the net by adding Ellis in case Smith has another pedestrian year.

Even their defense should be improved with Hedman's progression and the subtraction of Meszaros who just wasn't fitting there.
?

Torres signed with Vancouver.

Anyways, I'd be shocked if Tampa didn't make the playoffs as a lower seed, but I can't see them having any chance to contend.

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Old
08-25-2010, 02:43 PM
  #49
agrudez*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
?

Torres signed with Vancouver.

Anyways, I'd be shocked if Tampa didn't make the playoffs as a lower seed, but I can't see them having any chance to contend.
Yeah, brain fart on my part, Malone is still a nice top 6 guy, though.

That is also how I see TB going, seed 6-8, maybe win 1 round (but probably not). I was quoting someone who said they wouldn't make it.

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