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Old
08-23-2010, 05:05 PM
  #26
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Many people thought Sanguinetti would make the team last year, but Del Zotto blew past him in training camp.

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08-23-2010, 05:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
exaggerate much?
you disagree ?

+/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
REGULAR SEASON 80 9 28 37 -20 32 4 0 1 81 11.1
LEAGUE RANK 126TH 279TH 123RD 181ST 872ND 364TH 147TH 134TH 264TH 398TH 206TH

any questions grasshopper ??

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8474584

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08-23-2010, 05:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
you disagree ?

+/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
REGULAR SEASON 80 9 28 37 -20 32 4 0 1 81 11.1
LEAGUE RANK 126TH 279TH 123RD 181ST 872ND 364TH 147TH 134TH 264TH 398TH 206TH

any questions grasshopper ??

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8474584
Then apparently Marek Malik was one of the best defensemen in the NHL the first 2 years after the lock-out?
(No one in their right mind would agree with this which is why +/- rating isn't a reliable indicator of any particular player's overall game)

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08-23-2010, 05:36 PM
  #29
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For a 2nd rounder it was a great pickup by the Canes, he has all the tools to be a stud, he just doesn't seem to take his game to the next level when it counts. In training camp and in call ups he was pretty awful, at least signifying he has a long way to go if he wants to make the NHL. He didn't showcase his offense when he needed to, and frankly was given every chance to shine and he didn't capitalize.

Growing up in the New Jersey I know people that have played with or known Sanguinetti, and I have heard some horror stories of how dumb he is. Apparently he can be a real meathead, and while that doesn't mean it will effect him in the NHL, it's something to remember.

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08-23-2010, 05:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Then apparently Marek Malik was one of the best defensemen in the NHL the first 2 years after the lock-out?
(No one in their right mind would agree with this which is why +/- rating isn't a reliable indicator of any particular player's overall game)
Yup. I mean Wade freakin Redden was +8 last year.


Sangs looked terrible in his short stint with Rangers last season. He could still turn into 2nd pairing guy though, he's 22 and some defensmen are late bloomers.

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08-23-2010, 05:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Then apparently Marek Malik was one of the best defensemen in the NHL the first 2 years after the lock-out?
(No one in their right mind would agree with this which is why +/- rating isn't a reliable indicator of any particular player's overall game)
um, i have eyes and assume you do too. its hard to argue with -20 and seeing him struggle out there last year.

i like the kids upside, dont get me wrong but defensively, hes got a lot of work to do and so did bobby sangs.

ones still here, the other was summarily dispatched via the torts doctrine.

torts doctrine= i dont like you, so you are gone.

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08-23-2010, 05:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
For a 2nd rounder it was a great pickup by the Canes, he has all the tools to be a stud, he just doesn't seem to take his game to the next level when it counts. In training camp and in call ups he was pretty awful, at least signifying he has a long way to go if he wants to make the NHL. He didn't showcase his offense when he needed to, and frankly was given every chance to shine and he didn't capitalize.
I have to respectfully disagree with a few points you made here... I'm not sure any part of his game ever screamed "STUD"... He was drafted as a very talented offensive defenseman and the reason he fell in the draft to our draft position was concerns about his defensive game... He was never projected to be an elite blueliner or the type of player we would label STUD...

In training camp the one negative report we heard about him was him not completing Tortorella's rigorous skating drills and going down on 2 knees on the ice to recover from the drill... That can be looked at as poor off-season preparation more so than an overall 'conditioning issue'. Secondly, I never saw anything to suggest he was "awful" in training camp... Quite conversely, he didn't showcase anything to suggest he could or should have made the NHL roster... He wasn't bad, MDZ was just more visible and better in pre-season action...

I don't think you can say he was given every chance to shine and didn't capitalize... How many NHL games did he get to play in, less than 5? I'm not saying he would have proved anything had he been given more games but you can't say he had anywhere near as much of an opportunity to play as say MDZ or Gilroy....They got looks over an entire season....

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with the Sanguinetti trade and the return we got back for him... Not because there's anything wrong with him as a prospect but because he was not going to factor into our future plans for our blueline with the way things materialized....

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08-23-2010, 08:34 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
then you arent a big fan of michael delzotto, right ?

as far as defense goes, mdz may have been one of the worst in the entire league last year. at times, his d play was a horror show.
I'm sorry--Del Zotto might not be that strong yet but he is willing to get in the way and throw his body around.

As far as being an offensive force he is miles ahead of Sanguinetti. Yeah he needs a lot of work on his defense. He's still a couple years younger than Sanguinetti though.

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08-23-2010, 08:47 PM
  #34
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I'm sorry--Del Zotto might not be that strong yet but he is willing to get in the way and throw his body around.

As far as being an offensive force he is miles ahead of Sanguinetti. Yeah he needs a lot of work on his defense. He's still a couple years younger than Sanguinetti though.
yeah i agree that mdz will get better defensively but whos to say that sangs wouldnt have developed into atleast a decent defensive player with a terrific skating stride, a big shot and solid passing skills. after all, he was touted as more of a pp guy than a shutdown defender.

both times i saw him play in person with the pack, his shot impressed me. very hard and he got it off pretty quick.

and i saw nothing that indicated sangs was unwilling to throw his body. in fact i didnt see enough of him really to know what he would or wouldnt do.

but we will never know. carolina will be the benefactor of his skills now.

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08-23-2010, 09:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with a few points you made here... I'm not sure any part of his game ever screamed "STUD"... He was drafted as a very talented offensive defenseman and the reason he fell in the draft to our draft position was concerns about his defensive game... He was never projected to be an elite blueliner or the type of player we would label STUD...

In training camp the one negative report we heard about him was him not completing Tortorella's rigorous skating drills and going down on 2 knees on the ice to recover from the drill... That can be looked at as poor off-season preparation more so than an overall 'conditioning issue'. Secondly, I never saw anything to suggest he was "awful" in training camp... Quite conversely, he didn't showcase anything to suggest he could or should have made the NHL roster... He wasn't bad, MDZ was just more visible and better in pre-season action...

I don't think you can say he was given every chance to shine and didn't capitalize... How many NHL games did he get to play in, less than 5? I'm not saying he would have proved anything had he been given more games but you can't say he had anywhere near as much of an opportunity to play as say MDZ or Gilroy....They got looks over an entire season....

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with the Sanguinetti trade and the return we got back for him... Not because there's anything wrong with him as a prospect but because he was not going to factor into our future plans for our blueline with the way things materialized....
A 6'3" offensive defenseman who wins the fastest skater in the AHL all star game has the tools to be something special. Sorry, I'll change it to "offensive stud".

You said yourself he was an offensive defenseman with poor defensive play, he tried to completely turn his game upside down in training camp, NHL, WJC. Anytime I saw him play in any of those events he was way too safe, which is not good for a player like him that can't play defense very well. Del Zotto made the team because he immediately went out and electrified the power play and the transition game, as did Gilroy. That is why they got longer looks, even at Gilroy's worse he was still more valuable on the ice then Sanguinetti because he could skate better. If Sanguinetti played HIS game when he was being evaluated I think he would have made the team.

We really don't disagree on much, I was mainly referring to the people that felt Sangs was mistreated by the organization, which isn't true. Some people are tryout players, some are not.

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08-23-2010, 09:23 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
then you arent a big fan of michael delzotto, right ?

as far as defense goes, mdz may have been one of the worst in the entire league last year. at times, his d play was a horror show.
His defense was not good. Thats a given. But to say he was not physical is dead wrong. He was probably second to Staal in physical play on the back end and thats a 19 year old rookie who does not have any mass on his frame.


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Old
08-23-2010, 09:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
yeah i agree that mdz will get better defensively but whos to say that sangs wouldnt have developed into atleast a decent defensive player with a terrific skating stride, a big shot and solid passing skills. after all, he was touted as more of a pp guy than a shutdown defender.

both times i saw him play in person with the pack, his shot impressed me. very hard and he got it off pretty quick.

and i saw nothing that indicated sangs was unwilling to throw his body. in fact i didnt see enough of him really to know what he would or wouldnt do.

but we will never know. carolina will be the benefactor of his skills now.
Sangs never had a "hard" shot. It was an accurate wrist/snap shot from the point. We aren't talking Souray/Macinnis, more Poti/Lidstrom.

In his first season with the 'Pack he was pushed around a lot and would shy away from the corners and would constantly get beat in the corners by being out-muscled. He had a good season offensively and on the PP on a pretty good 'Pack team nonetheless therefore people overlooked it and said all he had to do was get stronger.

He spent the offseason getting stronger and he was noticeably bigger and stronger in camp and yet he was still passive and played a much more cerebral game which there is nothing wrong with except for the fact that most Ranger fans hate those types of defensemen(see Rozsival, Poti, Malik).

He has upside still and, IMO, will be an NHL defenseman but I think his ceiling is somewhere around a Tom Poti(which is nothing to scoff at) but he is more likely to be a bottom-pairing PP specialist.

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08-23-2010, 09:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Sangs never had a "hard" shot. It was an accurate wrist/snap shot from the point. We aren't talking Souray/Macinnis, more Poti/Lidstrom.

In his first season with the 'Pack he was pushed around a lot and would shy away from the corners and would constantly get beat in the corners by being out-muscled. He had a good season offensively and on the PP on a pretty good 'Pack team nonetheless therefore people overlooked it and said all he had to do was get stronger.

He spent the offseason getting stronger and he was noticeably bigger and stronger in camp and yet he was still passive and played a much more cerebral game which there is nothing wrong with except for the fact that most Ranger fans hate those types of defensemen(see Rozsival, Poti, Malik).

He has upside still and, IMO, will be an NHL defenseman but I think his ceiling is somewhere around a Tom Poti(which is nothing to scoff at) but he is more likely to be a bottom-pairing PP specialist.

well his shot was hard enough to be the fastest shot in the allstar game a few years back. thats pretty hard i would say.

every time he wound up when i saw him i could tell he generated alot of torque on his stick and his shot looked pretty fast to me.

rather than continue this forever, ill just say this again.

he had good size, he skated really well, he had a good shot and he played an offensive game. dumping him so soon because he didnt show a good enough defensive game, while we kept both mdz and gilroy- who show the same traits, was premature at best and has torts the clown written all over it.

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08-23-2010, 09:48 PM
  #39
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well his shot was hard enough to be the fastest shot in the allstar game a few years back. thats pretty hard i would say.

every time he wound up when i saw him i could tell he generated alot of torque on his stick and his shot looked pretty fast to me.

rather than continue this forever, ill just say this again.

he had good size, he skated really well, he had a good shot and he played an offensive game. dumping him so soon because he didnt show a good enough defensive game, while we kept both mdz and gilroy- who show the same traits, was premature at best and has torts the clown written all over it.
He has a good low shot that is perfect for deflections but he clocked in at 89.7 MPH at the AHL Skills Competition last season. Its hard but not anything to write home about.

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08-23-2010, 09:55 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
well his shot was hard enough to be the fastest shot in the allstar game a few years back. thats pretty hard i would say.

every time he wound up when i saw him i could tell he generated alot of torque on his stick and his shot looked pretty fast to me.

rather than continue this forever, ill just say this again.

he had good size, he skated really well, he had a good shot and he played an offensive game. dumping him so soon because he didnt show a good enough defensive game, while we kept both mdz and gilroy- who show the same traits, was premature at best and has torts the clown written all over it.
With Gilroy, I agree. With MDZ, not a chance. MDZ is miles ahead of Sangs as far as an offensive player and was much more willing, physical, and shows heavy traits of pure ability in every category as an NHL player. Even the way he handles himself.

However, Sanguinetti was given opportunities, and the fact of the matter is that his time wore out in New York. No big deal. He's probably not going to be Mike Green but he's probably not going to be Thomas Pock either.

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08-23-2010, 10:02 PM
  #41
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Sangs was going to be a bust. However, I was hoping he got us a lil more than we got.

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08-23-2010, 10:07 PM
  #42
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Sangs was going to be a bust. However, I was hoping he got us a lil more than we got.
Other GM's probably shared that same opinion. Let's be honest, Sangs and a 1st or Sangs and a roster player wasn't bringing us back a star player like everyone had hoped.

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08-23-2010, 11:16 PM
  #43
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Sanguinetti got a raw deal from the Rangers. Since it takes years for a defenseman to actually mature the book is still open on this kid. Its the hardest position to play in the NHL, yet NY gave up on him. Rather pathetic actually.

This dovetails nicely with Carolina's draft strategy which is not to "waste" 1st round picks on defensemen since they take such a long time to develop into players.

Carolina got a decent defenseman with nice upside.

The fact is that Sanguinetti didn't make it in NY for a few reasons

1. Del Zotto exploded onto the scene
2. Gilroy was signed as a UFA and was therefore guaranteed minutes
3. Redden's terrible contract ensured he would see ice time
4. Sanguinetti didn't do anything outstanding to prove his case

but an NHL defenseman doesn't have to be "outstanding" just consistent. He learns his craft over seasons and develops into someone worth keeping as a top 4 guy or becomes trade bait. I think Carolina got a player who can be a top 4 guy...

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08-23-2010, 11:24 PM
  #44
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Sanguinetti got a raw deal from the Rangers. Since it takes years for a defenseman to actually mature the book is still open on this kid. Its the hardest position to play in the NHL, yet NY gave up on him. Rather pathetic actually.

This dovetails nicely with Carolina's draft strategy which is not to "waste" 1st round picks on defensemen since they take such a long time to develop into players.

Carolina got a decent defenseman with nice upside.

The fact is that Sanguinetti didn't make it in NY for a few reasons

1. Del Zotto exploded onto the scene
2. Gilroy was signed as a UFA and was therefore guaranteed minutes
3. Redden's terrible contract ensured he would see ice time
4. Sanguinetti didn't do anything outstanding to prove his case

but an NHL defenseman doesn't have to be "outstanding" just consistent. He learns his craft over seasons and develops into someone worth keeping as a top 4 guy or becomes trade bait. I think Carolina got a player who can be a top 4 guy...
Sanguinetti didn't show any improvement. In fact, he came in the least prepared for Tort's camp, and that says a lot for a rookie's compete level...for someone trying to make the big club. His skating has and will always be blown out of proportion/overrated & his lack of top notch conditioning showed at camp. Defensively he will be average to a lil below. He's going to be a bust and many of you will see.

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08-24-2010, 12:17 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
well his shot was hard enough to be the fastest shot in the allstar game a few years back. thats pretty hard i would say.

every time he wound up when i saw him i could tell he generated alot of torque on his stick and his shot looked pretty fast to me.

rather than continue this forever, ill just say this again.

he had good size, he skated really well, he had a good shot and he played an offensive game. dumping him so soon because he didnt show a good enough defensive game, while we kept both mdz and gilroy- who show the same traits, was premature at best and has torts the clown written all over it.
You realize that just because he had a hard shot and was super fast doesnt make him a good PLAYER. It means NOTHING to win those stupid all-star competitions if you cant put it all together in a game situation. Staal isnt insanely fast nor is his shot that hard, does that make him bad? Sangs had a buncha good qualities but for some reason it just didnt click for him at the NHL level.

Also, lets remember that Enver Lisin was superfast too!

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08-24-2010, 12:57 AM
  #46
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Sanguinetti didn't show any improvement. In fact, he came in the least prepared for Tort's camp, and that says a lot for a rookie's compete level...for someone trying to make the big club. His skating has and will always be blown out of proportion/overrated & his lack of top notch conditioning showed at camp. Defensively he will be average to a lil below. He's going to be a bust and many of you will see.
thats the beauty of it, we will all see what transpires

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08-24-2010, 06:49 AM
  #47
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Sanguinetti got a raw deal from the Rangers. Since it takes years for a defenseman to actually mature the book is still open on this kid. Its the hardest position to play in the NHL, yet NY gave up on him. Rather pathetic actually.

This dovetails nicely with Carolina's draft strategy which is not to "waste" 1st round picks on defensemen since they take such a long time to develop into players.

Carolina got a decent defenseman with nice upside.

The fact is that Sanguinetti didn't make it in NY for a few reasons

1. Del Zotto exploded onto the scene
2. Gilroy was signed as a UFA and was therefore guaranteed minutes
3. Redden's terrible contract ensured he would see ice time
4. Sanguinetti didn't do anything outstanding to prove his case

but an NHL defenseman doesn't have to be "outstanding" just consistent. He learns his craft over seasons and develops into someone worth keeping as a top 4 guy or becomes trade bait. I think Carolina got a player who can be a top 4 guy...
Great post... I still do not understand why the Rangers traded Sangs. He was a golden prospect a year or 2 ago... 22 years old,
6'3" with very good size, very good skater... Most fans were penciling in Sangs as the future top 4 defenseman for Rangers for the next 10 years or so.... Not sure what happened.

Hopefully... this is not a trend with Ranger management if just in case a prospect (Grachev, Stepan, Krieder, McIilrath) does not develop fast enough and does not make the NHL before he is 22 years old....

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08-24-2010, 07:17 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
Sanguinetti got a raw deal from the Rangers. Since it takes years for a defenseman to actually mature the book is still open on this kid. Its the hardest position to play in the NHL, yet NY gave up on him. Rather pathetic actually.

This dovetails nicely with Carolina's draft strategy which is not to "waste" 1st round picks on defensemen since they take such a long time to develop into players.

Carolina got a decent defenseman with nice upside.

The fact is that Sanguinetti didn't make it in NY for a few reasons

1. Del Zotto exploded onto the scene
2. Gilroy was signed as a UFA and was therefore guaranteed minutes
3. Redden's terrible contract ensured he would see ice time
4. Sanguinetti didn't do anything outstanding to prove his case

but an NHL defenseman doesn't have to be "outstanding" just consistent. He learns his craft over seasons and develops into someone worth keeping as a top 4 guy or becomes trade bait. I think Carolina got a player who can be a top 4 guy...


nice work. you stated exactly what i believe to be true. sangs was moved prematurely. as i stated before, to move this kid at 22 yrs of age, with his skills for a 2nd round maybe draft pick is just plain stupid. we basically threw him away for nothing.

well done.

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08-24-2010, 07:24 AM
  #49
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Great post... I still do not understand why the Rangers traded Sangs. He was a golden prospect a year or 2 ago... 22 years old,
6'3" with very good size, very good skater... Most fans were penciling in Sangs as the future top 4 defenseman for Rangers for the next 10 years or so.... Not sure what happened.

Hopefully... this is not a trend with Ranger management if just in case a prospect (Grachev, Stepan, Krieder, McIilrath) does not develop fast enough and does not make the NHL before he is 22 years old....
Sather--knock on wood--has not been moving his best prospects in recent years. He's been holding on to them. Sanguinetti obviously fell in their eyes or maybe it was just Tortorella's?--who knows. MDZ passed him by for sure. McDonagh plays a safe game, skates really well and is built like a tank. IMO he (or at least the Rangers expect) is going to be the next one to make the team and maybe they did not want Sangs to go back to Hartford for another season. Maybe it would been too tough for him to handle with grace.

IMO Bob is not a big loss. The future corps of the Rangers D is Staal, MDZ, McDonagh and down the line McIlrath. You can add or subtract Girardi as you like and hope as well that a Gilroy, Pashnin or Valentenko pan out. But the Rangers backline appears to be in very good shape for the forseeable future even without Sanguinetti.

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08-24-2010, 07:35 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Sather--knock on wood--has not been moving his best prospects in recent years. He's been holding on to them. Sanguinetti obviously fell in their eyes or maybe it was just Tortorella's?--who knows. MDZ passed him by for sure. McDonagh plays a safe game, skates really well and is built like a tank. IMO he (or at least the Rangers expect) is going to be the next one to make the team and maybe they did not want Sangs to go back to Hartford for another season. Maybe it would been too tough for him to handle with grace.

IMO Bob is not a big loss. The future corps of the Rangers D is Staal, MDZ, McDonagh and down the line McIlrath. You can add or subtract Girardi as you like and hope as well that a Gilroy, Pashnin or Valentenko pan out. But the Rangers backline appears to be in very good shape for the forseeable future even without Sanguinetti.
thats a crap shoot at best. you can never have enough solid prospects. look what happened with gilroy. another weak year from him and hes not resigned. whos knows what mcd will bring to the pro game ?

its still no reason to move the kid for a 2nd rounder next year. to me, thats giving him away. this has got torts written all over it and just another reason to question the guys intelligence and motives.

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