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Old
08-24-2010, 09:32 AM
  #51
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I don't really agree with moving Sangs at the point we did. The return wasn't enough for me to warrant giving up on him at this point. I would've rather let it ride with him and if he didn't pan out, well so be it.

The draft is a crap shoot and sometimes things aren't going to pan out. I would've liked to have given him atleast one more full season in the organization and next year's training camp. Things could be a lot different by then.


That being said, I also don't expect him to be a big loss. IMO if he figures things out, he's a 5 or 6 in this league.

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08-24-2010, 10:10 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
thats a crap shoot at best. you can never have enough solid prospects. look what happened with gilroy. another weak year from him and hes not resigned. whos knows what mcd will bring to the pro game ?

its still no reason to move the kid for a 2nd rounder next year. to me, thats giving him away. this has got torts written all over it and just another reason to question the guys intelligence and motives.
FWIW the Rangers after Gaborik got knocked around by Carcillo have made something of a change in direction. All of a sudden Prust and Shelley show up in town. Since then we've added Boogaard--stunned everyone by drafting McIlrath along with McNaught and Wilson and trading for a minor league tough guy McCue. McDonagh is not a fighter but he fits the mold of a physical player. Sanguinetti lost the competition for pwp qb to MDZ and his finesse style of game gets lost in the mix considering this new direction. Rangers to me look like they are going to try to mix in more grit and toughness to protect the skill players they've decided are the most important to the team. Sanguinetti was dropping and so they got rid of him. It could be a mistake but I don't see him as a legit top 4 d-man any more. I see him as a possibility to be that.

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08-24-2010, 10:13 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
thats a crap shoot at best. you can never have enough solid prospects. look what happened with gilroy. another weak year from him and hes not resigned. whos knows what mcd will bring to the pro game ?

its still no reason to move the kid for a 2nd rounder next year. to me, thats giving him away. this has got torts written all over it and just another reason to question the guys intelligence and motives.
I love how you make your own assumption that it was torts' fault, then question his intelligence and motives based off your made up assumption

I know its hard to let go of young players with potential, but not everybody who doesnt pan out got a raw deal. Everybody who gets drafted has potential, thats why they were drafted. Sometimes it just doesnt work out with a team.

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08-24-2010, 10:15 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
FWIW the Rangers after Gaborik got knocked around by Carcillo have made something of a change in direction. All of a sudden Prust and Shelley show up in town. Since then we've added Boogaard--stunned everyone by drafting McIlrath along with McNaught and Wilson and trading for a minor league tough guy McCue. McDonagh is not a fighter but he fits the mold of a physical player. Sanguinetti lost the competition for pwp qb to MDZ and his finesse style of game gets lost in the mix considering this new direction. Rangers to me look like they are going to try to mix in more grit and toughness to protect the skill players they've decided are the most important to the team. Sanguinetti was dropping and so they got rid of him. It could be a mistake but I don't see him as a legit top 4 d-man any more. I see him as a possibility to be that.
honestly i dont see what any of those "tough guys" have to do with bobby sanguinetti. imo, theres no connection or correlation there.

its pretty clear to me. torts didnt like sangs and once the clown doesnt like you, youre history. and when decisions are made in that way, mistakes are bound to happen.

its that, or the entire organization felt that the kid had no future and needed to be moved immediately for a 2nd rounder in next years draft.

unlikely.

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08-24-2010, 10:19 AM
  #55
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I think some people overrate Sanguinetti a bit now just based on the fact that he got moved and it was the Rangers "losing" an asset, and that makes people nervous.

I liked Sanguinetti for years but he did need to step it up somewhat and didn't really do that for the Rangers. While he had pretty good years in Hartford, I really get the feeling he was expected to be a bit more than what he was, especially last year. Maybe it's unfair, but look at someone like Subban, who had a significantly better rookie AHL years, then stepped it right up when he got a chance in the NHL and had a great playoffs. I'm pretty sure the Rangers were hoping for something like that out of Sanguinetti.

Again, maybe it's not fair, but I'm pretty sure the Rangers were disappointed in Sanguinetti's progress. If Del Zotto hadn't stepped up, maybe they give Sanguinetti more time to work things out, but hey...

Ultimately, I think he'll play in the NHL, put up some point, maybe around 40, but might bounce around from team to team as they look for someone who can provide some puck moving ability but ultimately keep looking for more complete players than Sanguinetti.

Hard to tell, though. But at any rate he needs to take a pretty decent sized step forward at this point

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08-24-2010, 10:25 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I think some people overrate Sanguinetti a bit now just based on the fact that he got moved and it was the Rangers "losing" an asset, and that makes people nervous.

I liked Sanguinetti for years but he did need to step it up somewhat and didn't really do that for the Rangers. While he had pretty good years in Hartford, I really get the feeling he was expected to be a bit more than what he was, especially last year. Maybe it's unfair, but look at someone like Subban, who had a significantly better rookie AHL years, then stepped it right up when he got a chance in the NHL and had a great playoffs. I'm pretty sure the Rangers were hoping for something like that out of Sanguinetti.

Again, maybe it's not fair, but I'm pretty sure the Rangers were disappointed in Sanguinetti's progress. If Del Zotto hadn't stepped up, maybe they give Sanguinetti more time to work things out, but hey...

Ultimately, I think he'll play in the NHL, put up some point, maybe around 40, but might bounce around from team to team as they look for someone who can provide some puck moving ability but ultimately keep looking for more complete players than Sanguinetti.

Hard to tell, though. But at any rate he needs to take a pretty decent sized step forward at this point
my problem here is that we will never know the player he could have been for us because for some reason we gave him away for a 2nd rounder in next years draft.

no question, mdz's progress, gilroy being handed the job in camp- and mostly failing, and the signing of mcd all worked against bobby last year. not to mention his coming to camp in questionable shape. but really, unless his people told the rangers he did not want to return to hartford again and that further upset the clown, i cannot understand dumping him for what amounts to a so-so pick in a so-so draft.

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08-24-2010, 10:37 AM
  #57
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I also can't really take what you write seriously because you seem to have a vendetta against Tortorella more than anything else

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08-24-2010, 10:42 AM
  #58
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Sangs still has a shot to make it to the NHL, but he wasn't likekly to beat out many of the guys the Rangers have right now.

Having said that, even if he makes it, I don't think he becomes the player we hoped he would be.

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08-24-2010, 10:53 AM
  #59
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If I had to guess... Sangs asked for the trade. He knew he didn't have much of a future here...With so much depth on defense coming up he knew he wasn't getting a shot at the NHL.

Probably in good standing with the Rangers organization, we made the classy move and let him go for the best price we could get... a 2nd round pick. He should have a realistic shot at playing 82 games this year for Carolina.

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08-24-2010, 10:56 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
I love how you make your own assumption that it was torts' fault, then question his intelligence and motives based off your made up assumption

I know its hard to let go of young players with potential, but not everybody who doesnt pan out got a raw deal. Everybody who gets drafted has potential, thats why they were drafted. Sometimes it just doesnt work out with a team.
Yeah, I don't see how anyone can do that with a straight face. Renney didn't have Sanguinetti up, either. I guess we need to question his intelligence and motives.

Maybe the guy just wasn't ****ing good enough? Can't be that, could it?

offdacrossbar -- Stop with this ridiculous habit of placing the blame elsewhere. Prospects can do no wrong to you.

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08-24-2010, 10:58 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I also can't really take what you write seriously because you seem to have a vendetta against Tortorella more than anything else
wha ?????? you really think that. vendetta ?

i just dont like him being the coach of the nyr.

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08-24-2010, 11:00 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wha ?????? you really think that. vendetta ?

i just dont like him being the coach of the nyr.
You hate Torts just as much as you love Lisin. Look at all the names you call Torts, man. It's a clear vendetta. Like I'd honestly protect the man in public near you.

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08-24-2010, 11:03 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wha ?????? you really think that. vendetta ?

i just dont like him being the coach of the nyr.
Basically every time I see you post about something you're busy blaming Tortorella for this or that.

I mean, maybe you *really* don't actually feel that way, but that's the way it comes across in your posting.

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08-24-2010, 11:07 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Yeah, I don't see how anyone can do that with a straight face. Renney didn't have Sanguinetti up, either. I guess we need to question his intelligence and motives.

Maybe the guy just wasn't ****ing good enough? Can't be that, could it?

offdacrossbar -- Stop with this ridiculous habit of placing the blame elsewhere. Prospects can do no wrong to you.
sangs wasnt ready when renney was still here. and if you remember, there wasnt room, we had a very veteran laden defense renneys last year.

was sangs any worse than say...matt gilroy ? i think not.

i dont place blame elsewhere johhnyboy.

i place it here




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08-24-2010, 11:08 AM
  #65
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Yeah see that's why people don't take you seriously...

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08-24-2010, 11:10 AM
  #66
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Well, I'll say this much.

Things would be pretty interesting if Torts dressed up as Doink.

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08-24-2010, 11:13 AM
  #67
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Well, I'll say this much.

Things would be pretty interesting if Torts dressed up as Doink.
Would be hilarious. But only if he has Dink with him.

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08-24-2010, 11:14 AM
  #68
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Yeah see that's why people don't take you seriously...
um..... exactly. and i like it that way.

im not here to be taken seriously, im here to entertain you all and illustrate my opinions with absurdity.

thats doesnt mean my positions are absurd however. underneath all my rantings are some very sound theories. its just that i like to reinforce with lots of hyperbole.

its fun.

get it....

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08-24-2010, 12:08 PM
  #69
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Would be hilarious. But only if he has Dink with him.
Jonathan love the avatar, that clip is ****ing hilarious! Right up there with the "double rainbow" guy.

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08-24-2010, 12:42 PM
  #70
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...

I agree with the majority of you who are saying that he didn't get much of a chance in NY (5 NHL games). Some dmen, like MDZ, develop a lot faster than others(Sang).

I also understand all the talk about how MDZ, Gilroy and McD have passed him on the depth chart, thats fair. However, as some have pointed out, you can never have too much D depth. I would say that Offensive dmen is actually our weakness right now. Yes, MDZ put up 37 points, but no other dman had more than 27 points(Staal).

So while teams like Detroit have Lidstrom(49), Rafalski(42) and Kronwall(on pace for 37), the Rangers just have MDZ right now as a true point getter on D. Let's even say that Gilroy ends up a 30 point dman. Who else is going to put up over 30 points on a consistent basis??
Rozsival is only getting older
Staal is not an ideal PP guy(neither is Girardi)
McDonagh is more of a two-way dman
The other D prospects we have are not high-end offensive dmen

So even if Sanguinetti ends up a Poti type of dman and puts up 30 points a season and plays the PP, I'd gladly take that. We need MORE offensive dmen, not less.

The 2nd rounder does not make it worth enough to give up on a player like Sang. I do believe that paired with a defensive dman like Gleason, he could do well in Carolina.

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08-24-2010, 01:04 PM
  #71
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Canes fan here.

I was wondering about what to expect out of Bobby now and in the future. Figured I'd ask you guys sinnce you know the most about him. I know his potential is not as high as it once was, but are we looking at a future Top 4 guy or a solid guy in the top 6 that can contribute on the power play. He's likely to start the year in the AHL. Thanks.


Mods - move this if need be.
Expect him to play with the Charlotte Checkers for most of his career.

He'll get called up to the Hurricanes. He'll do his best impression of Perez Hilton on skates and he'll be sent back to Charlotte. The End.

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08-24-2010, 01:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
I agree with the majority of you who are saying that he didn't get much of a chance in NY (5 NHL games). Some dmen, like MDZ, develop a lot faster than others(Sang).

I also understand all the talk about how MDZ, Gilroy and McD have passed him on the depth chart, thats fair. However, as some have pointed out, you can never have too much D depth. I would say that Offensive dmen is actually our weakness right now. Yes, MDZ put up 37 points, but no other dman had more than 27 points(Staal).

So while teams like Detroit have Lidstrom(49), Rafalski(42) and Kronwall(on pace for 37), the Rangers just have MDZ right now as a true point getter on D. Let's even say that Gilroy ends up a 30 point dman. Who else is going to put up over 30 points on a consistent basis??
Rozsival is only getting older
Staal is not an ideal PP guy(neither is Girardi)
McDonagh is more of a two-way dman
The other D prospects we have are not high-end offensive dmen

So even if Sanguinetti ends up a Poti type of dman and puts up 30 points a season and plays the PP, I'd gladly take that. We need MORE offensive dmen, not less.

The 2nd rounder does not make it worth enough to give up on a player like Sang. I do believe that paired with a defensive dman like Gleason, he could do well in Carolina.
Good post.. I agree..

There was much anticipation with Sangs. He was to be part of the future defense.
I just don't understand why he was traded and hope some of the other prospects in the system right now do not end up like Sangs. There has to be a reason behind closed doors why the management gave up on Sangs. It certainly was a let down from the buzz he had since he was drafted as a first round pick.

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08-24-2010, 01:52 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Eggy21 View Post
Canes fan here.

I was wondering about what to expect out of Bobby now and in the future. Figured I'd ask you guys sinnce you know the most about him. I know his potential is not as high as it once was, but are we looking at a future Top 4 guy or a solid guy in the top 6 that can contribute on the power play. He's likely to start the year in the AHL. Thanks.


Mods - move this if need be.
You are probably better going somewhere else since they had him as one of their top 5 prospects as of Feb 2010. From the majority of posts seems they have changed their thoughts on him since he was traded . Not saying his a top 4 or anything but you have to wonder if the fans thought highly of him to vote him their top 5 prospect. McD was 6th on that list.


TOP PROSPECTS

1. D Michael Del Zotto
2. C Artem Anisimov
3. LW Evgeny Grachev
4. C Derek Stepan
5. D Bobby Sanguinetti

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08-24-2010, 03:04 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
I agree with the majority of you who are saying that he didn't get much of a chance in NY (5 NHL games). Some dmen, like MDZ, develop a lot faster than others(Sang).

I also understand all the talk about how MDZ, Gilroy and McD have passed him on the depth chart, thats fair. However, as some have pointed out, you can never have too much D depth. I would say that Offensive dmen is actually our weakness right now. Yes, MDZ put up 37 points, but no other dman had more than 27 points(Staal).

So while teams like Detroit have Lidstrom(49), Rafalski(42) and Kronwall(on pace for 37), the Rangers just have MDZ right now as a true point getter on D. Let's even say that Gilroy ends up a 30 point dman. Who else is going to put up over 30 points on a consistent basis??
Rozsival is only getting older
Staal is not an ideal PP guy(neither is Girardi)
McDonagh is more of a two-way dman
The other D prospects we have are not high-end offensive dmen

So even if Sanguinetti ends up a Poti type of dman and puts up 30 points a season and plays the PP, I'd gladly take that. We need MORE offensive dmen, not less.

The 2nd rounder does not make it worth enough to give up on a player like Sang. I do believe that paired with a defensive dman like Gleason, he could do well in Carolina.
very good post. well said. players dont all develop at the same rate.

at one time, we were considered to have a "stocked" d prospect pool. all of a sudden, not so much. just goes to show how things can change quickly.

i like your premise that we need more offensive d men like sangs. i happen to concur.

unless there was something negative that the organization became aware of that were arent aware of, i still say keeping bobby was better than dunping him for a 2nd rounder.

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08-24-2010, 03:11 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
You are probably better going somewhere else since they had him as one of their top 5 prospects as of Feb 2010. From the majority of posts seems they have changed their thoughts on him since he was traded . Not saying his a top 4 or anything but you have to wonder if the fans thought highly of him to vote him their top 5 prospect. McD was 6th on that list.


TOP PROSPECTS

1. D Michael Del Zotto
2. C Artem Anisimov
3. LW Evgeny Grachev
4. C Derek Stepan
5. D Bobby Sanguinetti
I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. Since that time both Del Zotto and McDonagh have continued to progress, while Sanguinetti didn't quite take it up a notch. That's where Sanguinetti tends to lose support, he pretty much flatlined.

Factor in the belief that McD is considered, at this point, to be more NHL ready and it's not hard to see where Sangs was facing an uphill battle.

On a team that has Staal, Girardi,Del Zotto, Gilroy and McDonagh, all under the age of 26 and having played or expected to play in the NHL, it becomes a numbers game. And in this case, Sangs was sitting 6th in that race.

I still think Sangs can become an NHL defenseman. But I don't think he's going to be the 15 goal, 50 point offensive player that was hoped for when he was drafted.

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