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Old
08-24-2010, 03:10 AM
  #26
BadHammy*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullterm View Post
That's the biggest thing I'm fighting with. Slow it down, take a look. Don't treat it like a hot potatoe.
It sounds to me like you're just lacking comfort level, which comes from experience. When you get the experience necessary, you'll know when it's time to hang onto it and dangle to create versus when to snap pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lario Melieux View Post
Also, when you have the puck on your stick in your own zone or the neutral zone, look for the guy breaking with speed. Likewise, when your stationary teammate gets the puck in the defensive zone or neutral zone, you should already be skating hard up ice to give him a good passing option.
Well said.

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Old
08-24-2010, 09:59 AM
  #27
jacko23
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Originally Posted by StaalForOne View Post
All the best mens league teams move the puck well. Ive seen older, smarter players, beat younger, more talented players that just play as individuals, fairly often in my experiences.
hell.....im in the wrong league then. hahaha. im all for playing in my league though. sure, there are the hot shots that should be in (at least) the next league up, but for the most part, we are older guys, out to have fun and maybe have a beer or two afterwards. if someone was to organize practices, id be for it, but im happy knowing i can go out there and know im not competing for a pro contract.

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08-24-2010, 11:04 AM
  #28
Kunitziwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko23 View Post
hell.....im in the wrong league then. hahaha. im all for playing in my league though. sure, there are the hot shots that should be in (at least) the next league up, but for the most part, we are older guys, out to have fun and maybe have a beer or two afterwards. if someone was to organize practices, id be for it, but im happy knowing i can go out there and know im not competing for a pro contract.
really we only see real young kids (Kids right outta HS, or in juniors) during tournaments and its usually a hodgepodge of kids who don't play together much, so they are all out there doing their own thing. Otherwise the leagues are actually guys 20-50 yrs old with late 20's early and mid 30's being the average age. Its not an all out league, its fun, we have beers too, but its good competition.

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08-24-2010, 03:06 PM
  #29
Jarick
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Great topic.

I've always been a shoot-first guy, but after reading some of Dryden's "The Game", I'm starting to wonder.

He talks about Bob Gainey not having the tools to be a scorer...he had really good N-S speed and a good low, hard shot, but he never scored because he didn't have the ability to get into scoring areas and instead would take perimeter shots.

Somehow that got me thinking about whether or not I actually am a scorer. I take a lot of shots, but don't score that often. When I moved back to defense, I put up a lot more points.

I still don't see the ice that way, especially on 2-on-1's and what not. I'm good at drawing players towards me and then moving the puck, but I have a lot of work to do on my accuracy (especially reading where players are going and just switching to the Drury curve).

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08-24-2010, 03:51 PM
  #30
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It always looks to me that few people have the skills required to see other players to pass too.

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08-24-2010, 04:38 PM
  #31
Jarick
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Re-reading this, I love the comment about players who stop right when you pass it to where they are going to be. Happened a lot at pickup last week.

Also, for the beginners, put some damn mustard on those passes. Nothing worse than a soft pass.

From the Jack Falla book, one thing that stuck in my head was when he played with Gretzky, and Gretzky told him that he passes the puck hard when a player is stationary and softer when a player is moving. Don't know where to go with that, but thought I'd throw it out there.

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08-24-2010, 05:20 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post

From the Jack Falla book, one thing that stuck in my head was when he played with Gretzky, and Gretzky told him that he passes the puck hard when a player is stationary and softer when a player is moving. Don't know where to go with that, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Well to me that means if a guy is sitting still your accuracy should be alot better so make sure that pass gets to him and quick. For the moving pass you also gotta factor in the other players speed so a softer(not too soft) pass ahead of the skater allows them to better position themselves for getting the puck. Just my take on it

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08-24-2010, 05:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Re-reading this, I love the comment about players who stop right when you pass it to where they are going to be. Happened a lot at pickup last week.

Also, for the beginners, put some damn mustard on those passes. Nothing worse than a soft pass.

From the Jack Falla book, one thing that stuck in my head was when he played with Gretzky, and Gretzky told him that he passes the puck hard when a player is stationary and softer when a player is moving. Don't know where to go with that, but thought I'd throw it out there.
If he's stationary, the pass needs to be fast because the other team knows that he isn't moving, so they would have all day to forecheck him if it was a soft pass. The lead pass being soft allows the receiver to catch the puck easily and continue up ice, or even catch it and change directions quickly.

Regardless, every situation is different. If I catch a d-man snoozing with my teammate cutting behind him, you can be damn sure my pass would be a bullet to his stick. I don't want to let that defensemen recover by throwing a lazy pass up ice just so the winger can control is easier.

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08-24-2010, 07:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump and Chase View Post
Top 10 thoughts on passing the biscuit:

1. Move the puck quickly. The longer you wait the more difficulty you will have completing the pass. The fore checker is eating your angles, the back checkers are picking up your outlets. MOVE IT NOW!

2. Pass to where your target is going to be not where he is. Every pass does not need to be a bullet. Every pass does not need to be tape to tape. Lead the puck to someone who is moving. Let him skate into the puck, this is an easier pass to receive and he can take it everytime with speed. Speed creates space.

3. Most of your passes should be short. 15-20 feet is all you need. Short passes relieve immediate pressure from the fore check. They create time, space and opportunity.

4. Learn to pass with accuracy on your backhand. It opens up more ice and makes you less predictable.

5. Give and Go. You have moved the puck now do your job and get open. A couple of quick strides is usually all it takes to support your team mate and give him an outlet.

6. Get your priorities straight. 95% of the time when you get puck you should be thinking about WHO you can get the puck to cleanly so your team can control the play. NOT how YOU can skate 85 feet to get a weak ass shot on net with 2 guys draped all over you.

7. Practice your passing as much as you practice shooting.

8. Practice disguising where the puck is going. Donít telegraph the **** out of your pass! Practice moving the puck from difficult positions. Practice no look passing.

9. Drop passes are ghey unless you are sure they are on the money. Never shoot it back wards inside the blue line. Stop the puck dead and skate past it.

10. Passing is fun. A team of skilled passers beats a team full of danglers every time and it is much less work.



Now get to work!
Just to play devil's advocate....

1) As others have said, sometimes players try to move the puck TOO quickly....unnecessarily forcing passes to teammates before their partner is ready or before the lane is clear. Can't tell you how many horrible turnovers I've seen from defensemen trying to make a perfect 80-foot breakout pass to a moving target even though the puckcarrier has nobody pressuring him and he has 50 feet of open ice to skate and THEN maybe make a pass.

2) Passing to where your target is going to be is a great idea....unless where they're headed is into double coverage. I actually find that wingers not finding open ice and not making themselves available for passes is actually a bigger problem than puck hogs. Often one guy has to do everything because his teammates aren't working to get open.

3) Passes that are short also make it easier for defenders to cover two people.

4) Most intermediate and lower players can barely make or receive a pass accurately on their forehand, much less the backhand.

5) Give and go requires a bit of practice works great with teammates you have an understanding with. Most pickup and rec league hockey games are just whoever shows up on a given day. Hard to effectively work a play that involves talent and timing with a guy you've only seen a few times and know little about.

6) Most rec and even youth traveling teams have a wide disparity of talent on their rosters. Some teams have players that are so good/bad, that is actually easier and less dangerous to have a talented puckcarrier skate thru a pair of defensemen than to try to feed even a perfect uncontested pass to a player with no goals on the season and who frequently trips over their own feet.

7) Practicing passing requires a partner. Shooting does not. For those who have the luxury of open ice or a teammate whom they can do drills with it's great.....but for most everybody else, the only ice time is weekly games or pickup when the focus is the game or the scrimmage, not passing drills.

8 & 9) Here's my observation as a goaltender.....for rec levels upper intermediate and below, if you have an odd-man rush, every pass you make past the offensive blue line is a 20-50% reduction in the effectiveness of the scoring chance. People just aren't that good at making or receiving passes on the rush, under pressure.

Even assuming equal talent in both forwards on a 2-on-1, every talented forward knows how to skate in on goal and shoot. For a breakaway, the scoring odds are about 20-40% depending on the circumstances. For a player to throw a pass across AND get it past the defender AND put the puck on his winger's tape AND have the winger receive it clean without bobbling or missing it AND to have him get off a quality shot on target is asking a lot. The moment that puck gets passed across, I know I've won because I'm just going to take away the lower half of the net and may God help you get it elevated from in tight.....much less complete a return pass. If you can do it, I'll tip my cap....but I know you won't.

I even play in some more advanced rec levels. In the last year, I've been beaten by ONE double-pass on a 2-on-1. Not for lack of trying, for lack of execution. They simply can't do it. Could they be good at it if they worked on it? Sure. But if they were consistently good at it, then they wouldn't be stuck playing rec league hockey. A simple shot is a much higher percentage play, even if double-covered.

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:03 PM
  #35
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I love the drop pass! One of my favorite plays is skating past the blue line and dropping it to a teammate behind me and skating towards the defenceman to block his view. While standing in front of the defenceman I'm blocking his access to my teammate with the puck, letting him get closer to the net, and I'm creating a fairly large screen in front of the goalie. If the teammate can get a solid shot off then there's a good chance that the play can be successful.

As for all the other points, I couldn't agree more. Very few players have the skill required to carry the puck through the entire opposing team, yet that's the only reason that you shouldn't be passing. So many people will carry the puck and make one move too many causing the play to stop or even go back, quickly shifting the play from offensive to defensive. Players will often use their teammates' positioning as an excuse for holding onto the puck, but if you're rushing in on a 1-on-2, you're obviously going to be alone. You should make a quick stop along the boards and wait for your teammates to get into the zone.

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:03 PM
  #36
SJGoalie32
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Quote:
10. Passing is fun. A team of skilled passers beats a team full of danglers every time and it is much less work.
Oh, and this one deserves its own response.

It's not that passers beat danglers, it's more that a team of *skilled* anythings beats a team that isn't skilled.

Again, at most rec league and youth levels, 95% of what wins is the talent gap. Teamwork plays the deciding role only in those rare occasions when two teams are equally matched up and down the roster.

15 skilled passers is great, but if you've got 15 players who can already skate through every defender like he's an orange pylon, what's the point of passing? Would you risk a turnover on a pass just to avoid a stationary orange cone? Of course not. Passing is relevant when the forward can't beat his defender. But if he is more than capable of beating 2 and 3 defenders at a time, what's the point of passing.

Dangling is a skill you can take with you from team to team. Passing is a skill that requires you to have fairly equally talented linemates.....a luxury that many teams can't provide.

Finding 15 highly talented passers and getting them all together on one rec team (and getting them all to show up) is a feat worthy biblical notation. Finding a few guys who can dangle thru opposing defenders like they're stationary cones is as easy as poaching the top players from a higher league.

Not trying to be a jerk here, just wanting to point out some of the realities of amateur hockey

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:04 PM
  #37
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I dont see how alot of this is so disputable, but I would like to add that positioning is hugely important and relatively low (sometimes non-existant) on most new players priority lists. Where to pass, when to pass and how to get open is more important than the speed or accuracy of most passes. We all like to thread the D but so many players dont realize they need to keep moving, cutting in, weaving out to be able to get good looks and make plays.

I play with this kid who, every time he touches the puck, he rushes up the wing without looking, and then skates all the way around the net, never trying to pull up at the sideboards to take a look or atleast getting it into the slot. Inevitably he tries to dangle to get back out to the blueline, losing the puck in the process.

Also, I know I am really guilty of this messing around, but the saucer pass into the slot or to the opposite wing is not applicable all the time. It looks so good but people (myself included) have a tendecy to pass into high coverage just because the puck is off the ice. You get wise to these things on D quickly.

Positioning is key. If you know how to rotate and where to go, passes can be short and simple. Also, the head must be up to see what is actually going on. It's THE epidemic in many lower level leagues.

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:06 PM
  #38
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I love the topic creator.


Truer words....

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Old
08-25-2010, 09:55 AM
  #39
Dump and Chase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Just to play devil's advocate....

1) As others have said, sometimes players try to move the puck TOO quickly....unnecessarily forcing passes to teammates before their partner is ready or before the lane is clear. Can't tell you how many horrible turnovers I've seen from defensemen trying to make a perfect 80-foot breakout pass to a moving target even though the puckcarrier has nobody pressuring him and he has 50 feet of open ice to skate and THEN maybe make a pass.

2) Passing to where your target is going to be is a great idea....unless where they're headed is into double coverage. I actually find that wingers not finding open ice and not making themselves available for passes is actually a bigger problem than puck hogs. Often one guy has to do everything because his teammates aren't working to get open.

3) Passes that are short also make it easier for defenders to cover two people.

4) Most intermediate and lower players can barely make or receive a pass accurately on their forehand, much less the backhand.

5) Give and go requires a bit of practice works great with teammates you have an understanding with. Most pickup and rec league hockey games are just whoever shows up on a given day. Hard to effectively work a play that involves talent and timing with a guy you've only seen a few times and know little about.

6) Most rec and even youth traveling teams have a wide disparity of talent on their rosters. Some teams have players that are so good/bad, that is actually easier and less dangerous to have a talented puckcarrier skate thru a pair of defensemen than to try to feed even a perfect uncontested pass to a player with no goals on the season and who frequently trips over their own feet.

7) Practicing passing requires a partner. Shooting does not. For those who have the luxury of open ice or a teammate whom they can do drills with it's great.....but for most everybody else, the only ice time is weekly games or pickup when the focus is the game or the scrimmage, not passing drills.

8 & 9) Here's my observation as a goaltender.....for rec levels upper intermediate and below, if you have an odd-man rush, every pass you make past the offensive blue line is a 20-50% reduction in the effectiveness of the scoring chance. People just aren't that good at making or receiving passes on the rush, under pressure.

Even assuming equal talent in both forwards on a 2-on-1, every talented forward knows how to skate in on goal and shoot. For a breakaway, the scoring odds are about 20-40% depending on the circumstances. For a player to throw a pass across AND get it past the defender AND put the puck on his winger's tape AND have the winger receive it clean without bobbling or missing it AND to have him get off a quality shot on target is asking a lot. The moment that puck gets passed across, I know I've won because I'm just going to take away the lower half of the net and may God help you get it elevated from in tight.....much less complete a return pass. If you can do it, I'll tip my cap....but I know you won't.

I even play in some more advanced rec levels. In the last year, I've been beaten by ONE double-pass on a 2-on-1. Not for lack of trying, for lack of execution. They simply can't do it. Could they be good at it if they worked on it? Sure. But if they were consistently good at it, then they wouldn't be stuck playing rec league hockey. A simple shot is a much higher percentage play, even if double-covered.


Seriously?


The OP covers some very basic fundamentals that every hockey player should at least be able to understand. For you to pick apart every point is being purposefully contrarian.


I am not saying that you should pass before you have control or force the puck in to bad spots for the sake of passing it. How does one even come to the conclusion that this is what I am saying? The point is move it when good opportunities present themselves to advance the play. Don't hang on to it until the moment has passed you by.


I don't know where you are playing that the players can not even accept a pass. My 6 year old boy and 4 year old girl have very suspect motor skills in comparison to any adult and they can both receive a pass with some heat on it 9 times out of 10.


What got me thinking about this in the first place was a skate I went to a few weeks back. Out of 20ish skaters on the ice most were local high school players (16-18) shaking off some summer dust, a couple of Jr. D players, a couple older guys and a female university player. Everyone on the ice could skate well and handle the puck. I would wager that no one had less than 10 years of hockey experience. So your "don't pass to them because they suck too bad" argument is just silly.


Almost all of these high school kids most could dangle very well. Now this can be pretty easy to do playing NBC but still most were capable of going end to end since they don't need to worry about getting hit.


After a few shifts of these young guys trying to stick handle their way through every defender, every time they got the puck. I started talking to them on the bench saying this kind of stuff:

"That big guy on left D keeps pinching to the inside. Look for me up the middle in the neutral zone and as soon as you pass take a couple quick strides up the wall and I'll get it right back to you. He'll be out of position and you have a clear lane to the net."

"Nice job breaking up those plays at the blue line. Look for me breaking behind next time right after the turnover. Just lob it into the lane where I can skate into it."

You don't need history with players to capitalize on some simple plays. You just need to communicate with them.

So some had zero puck sense and still didn't attempt passes and some started trying to work these plays. Even the one's who tried really struggled with completing a short pass in the neutral zone. It really boggled my mind. My Pee Wee team moved the puck better than these guys. Do young players not get solid team based coaching anymore?


You can choose whether you take something positive out of this post or decide to be critical but I think there are several points here that every player could use to their advantage.

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