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Which NHL team has had the richest tradition in goal?

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Old
08-24-2010, 05:11 PM
  #26
JackSlater
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Okay someone had to mention the Leafs eventually. Come on, they are in the running for #2 IMO. Chabot, Broda, Lumley, Bower, Sawchuk, Joseph, Belfour.

Pretty nice talent there. Lots of Cups on their backbones as well.
I wouldn't consider Sawchuk or Belfour as part of Toronto's goaltending tradition considering they were definitely in the twilight of their respective careers and clearly belong to other teams in terms of legacy. Lumley is debatable as well. I can't see Toronto being placed ahead of Chicago in terms of goaltenders.

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Old
08-24-2010, 06:09 PM
  #27
andreydali19
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Montreal

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Old
08-24-2010, 07:14 PM
  #28
reckoning
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
I would say Rangers as member of O6 have pretty sub-par goalies, when we look at them throught history glasses.
Mike Richter, Giacomin, Worsley, Vanbiesbrouck and Lundqvist as best goalies for 100 years old franchise look not very impressive to me.
Dave Kerr and Chuck Rayner would be up there too.

Actually if you were only to look at teams after the '67 expansion, the Rangers Giacomin-Beezer-Richter-Lundqvist run is probably one of the better more consistent ones in the league.

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Old
08-24-2010, 07:28 PM
  #29
seventieslord
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Obviously Montreal - Vezina, Durnan, Plante, Dryden, Roy, but also lesser guys like Hainsworth and Worsley.

Next, I think it's pretty impressive that Chicago, for 35 years, had either Glenn Hall or Tony Esposito in net. Add the Belfour years to that, plus Gardiner, and you've got a pretty good goalie tradition going.

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Old
08-24-2010, 08:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
List of the HHOF quality goalies that have played regularly for the Montreal Canadiens 1917 to 2010.

Georges Vezina,George Hainsworth, Bill Durnan, Jacques Plante, Gump Worsley, Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy.

Add passing thru: Tony Esposito.
also passing through was rogie vachon, who is one of the best eligible goalies not in the HHOF. and of course theodore had that one monster year, as well as one other pretty good year.

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Old
08-24-2010, 09:22 PM
  #31
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
One problem with the Leafs is the almost total dearth of quality goalies between Bower and I guess Joseph (though in an all-time setting, Joseph is pretty weak). Plante had one amazing year, Palmateer was a flash in the pan, and Potvin started off strong, but really, that is an almost 30 year gap with not much between the pipes.
Right, this is why I didn't mention Palmateer or Potvin. If we have issues with Joseph on an all-time setting............

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Old
08-24-2010, 09:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
I wouldn't consider Sawchuk or Belfour as part of Toronto's goaltending tradition considering they were definitely in the twilight of their respective careers and clearly belong to other teams in terms of legacy. Lumley is debatable as well. I can't see Toronto being placed ahead of Chicago in terms of goaltenders.
Sawchuk gets points for his resurgence and his impact on the Cup in 1967 (arguably a Conn Smythe performance). Lumley could go to the Wings as well which is where his Cup was, but he was a First team all-star twice in Toronto. Belfour I can see, perhaps that is weak although he was still very good at that time. Any list with Broda and Bower though will get some attention. You've got a common top 10 goalie with another all-time great.

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08-24-2010, 09:47 PM
  #33
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Montreal has the richest tradition in just about everything except defense. Not because of a lack of quality defensemen, but because Boston could throw out this as an all time top 6:

Orr - Shore
Bourque - Park
Chara - Flaman

...come on!

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Old
08-24-2010, 11:32 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Montreal has the richest tradition in just about everything except defense. Not because of a lack of quality defensemen, but because Boston could throw out this as an all time top 6:

Orr - Shore
Bourque - Park
Chara - Flaman

...come on!
Yeah, no one beats that. And if you get bored and want to switch it up, throw in Clapper

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Old
08-25-2010, 01:16 AM
  #35
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It would be interesting to compare all time teams. I'm trying to think of other teams that would even compete with Boston, Montreal, Detroit and Pittsburgh.

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08-25-2010, 02:22 AM
  #36
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It would be interesting to compare all time teams. I'm trying to think of other teams that would even compete with Boston, Montreal, Detroit and Pittsburgh.
Toronto would pretty easily beat Pittsburgh IMO. Toronto beats Pittsburgh handily in defense, goaltending, and defensive forwards. Pittsburgh has Mario and Jagr, but two players can only get you so far. I don't know why Chicago or Edmonton, either. The Islanders could definitely compete with Pittsburgh, as well.

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Old
08-25-2010, 03:49 AM
  #37
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Habs and in the truest, most HF way possible it's not even remotely close.
/thread

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Old
08-25-2010, 03:55 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Montreal has the richest tradition in just about everything except defense. Not because of a lack of quality defensemen, but because Boston could throw out this as an all time top 6:

Orr - Shore
Bourque - Park
Chara - Flaman

...come on!

Ummm....
Harvey - Robinson
Savard - Lapointe
Chelios - Laperriere

I would still give the edge to the B's but it's a lot closer than you think.

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Old
08-25-2010, 05:13 AM
  #39
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Ummm....
Harvey - Robinson
Savard - Lapointe
Chelios - Laperriere

I would still give the edge to the B's but it's a lot closer than you think.
It's a great defense, but look at it this way:

Orr > Harvey
Shore > Robinson
Bourque > Chelios (even giving Chelios the full value of his career outside of Montreal)
Park > Savard
Chara < Lapointe
Flaman < Laperriere

Boston's top 4 is just so much better than Montreal's top 4 that it really isn't that close, despite the fact that Montreal's #5 and 6 (and 7 and 8 if you went that far) are a bit better.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-25-2010 at 05:55 AM.
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Old
08-25-2010, 05:54 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It's a great defense, but look at it this way:

Orr > Harvey
Shore > Robinson
Bourque = Chelios (even giving Chelios the full value of his career outside of Montreal)
Park > Savard
Chara < Lapointe
Flaman < Laperriere

Boston's top 4 is just so much better than Montreal's top 4 that it really isn't that close, despite the fact that Montreal's #5 and 6 (and 7 and 8 if you went that far) are a bit better.
Fair enough, only I would personally go Park = Savard, not giving Serge enough credit imo.

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Old
08-25-2010, 09:46 AM
  #41
tony d
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It's Montreal.

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Old
08-25-2010, 01:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ryan87 View Post
It would be interesting to compare all time teams. I'm trying to think of other teams that would even compete with Boston, Montreal, Detroit and Pittsburgh.
Toronto, Chicago, NYI, Edmonton, Philadelphia and several others would more than compete with Pittsburgh in an all time sense.

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08-25-2010, 01:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Toronto, Chicago, NYI, Edmonton, Philadelphia and several others would more than compete with Pittsburgh in an all time sense.
Chicago, Edmonton and Philly perhaps. NYI maybe. Toronto, I honestly can't see it. Coming from a Leaf fan first and foremost mind you.

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Old
08-25-2010, 02:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by JaymzB View Post
One problem with the Leafs is the almost total dearth of quality goalies between Bower and I guess Joseph (though in an all-time setting, Joseph is pretty weak). Plante had one amazing year, Palmateer was a flash in the pan, and Potvin started off strong, but really, that is an almost 30 year gap with not much between the pipes.
I think you're forgetting Allan Bester.

...wait, does dearth mean 'good' or 'bad'?

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Old
08-25-2010, 02:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
Chicago, Edmonton and Philly perhaps. NYI maybe. Toronto, I honestly can't see it. Coming from a Leaf fan first and foremost mind you.
Toronto is clearly better in terms of goaltending and defencemen. In terms of forwards Pittsburgh would have a superior first line, possibly even a better second line depending on how highly you rate Crosby/Malkin, but Toronto's bottom lines would be much better than those for Pittsburgh. Toronto had all kinds of great forwards before Pittsburgh even existed as a franchise.

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Old
08-25-2010, 02:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Toronto is clearly better in terms of goaltending and defencemen. In terms of forwards Pittsburgh would have a superior first line, possibly even a better second line depending on how highly you rate Crosby/Malkin, but Toronto's bottom lines would be much better than those for Pittsburgh. Toronto had all kinds of great forwards before Pittsburgh even existed as a franchise.
That's the thing though. They didn't really have all kinds. Historically Toronto lacks elite players at all position's, and even depth of really solid players. I think every original 6 team is better in an all time sense, except maybe the Rangers. On top of that many other teams who haven't been around as long seem to have comparable depth and better top end talent. I may start a thread.

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08-25-2010, 03:21 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
That's the thing though. They didn't really have all kinds. Historically Toronto lacks elite players at all position's, and even depth of really solid players. I think every original 6 team is better in an all time sense, except maybe the Rangers. On top of that many other teams who haven't been around as long seem to have comparable depth and better top end talent. I may start a thread.
Do it!! I think it would very interesting to see if you could compare all time teams and see who comes out on top. Not only that but to rank them to see where each Franchise ranks.

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08-25-2010, 03:51 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
That's the thing though. They didn't really have all kinds. Historically Toronto lacks elite players at all position's, and even depth of really solid players. I think every original 6 team is better in an all time sense, except maybe the Rangers. On top of that many other teams who haven't been around as long seem to have comparable depth and better top end talent. I may start a thread.
I agree. I'm as big a leaf fan as you can find, but I don't see how the Leafs alltime could compete with the pens.

Sundin, Sittler and Keon vs Lemieux, Crosby and Jagr ?

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Old
08-25-2010, 04:18 PM
  #49
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I just gotta ask. Would anybody be able to stop an All Time Pens Power Play?

1st Unit) Mario, Jagr, Crosby, Coffey, Gonchar

2nd Unit) Francis, Mullen, Stevens, Malkin, Murphy

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08-25-2010, 04:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
That's the thing though. They didn't really have all kinds. Historically Toronto lacks elite players at all position's, and even depth of really solid players. I think every original 6 team is better in an all time sense, except maybe the Rangers. On top of that many other teams who haven't been around as long seem to have comparable depth and better top end talent. I may start a thread.
I think you're selling Toronto short. Perhaps they're short on top 30 or so players, but the only ones Pittsburgh really has are Lemieux and Jagr. Great, to be sure, but Toronto can put out Apps, Mahovlich, Conacher, Jackson, Kennedy, Dye, Primeau, Keon, Sittler, Sundin, Gilmour, etc. I mean, Apps is basically a Sakic comparable without the longevity, Mahovlich is a top 4 LW, Conacher was an elite power forward who led the league in goals 5 times, Jackson led the league in points, Kennedy won a Hart and 3 retro Conn Smythes, Dye led the league in goals 3 times, Primeau led the league in assists 3 times, Keon was an unbelievable 2-way player and leader, Sittler and Sundin were all-star first liners for years, and Gilmour won a Selke while being top 10 in points. And all, except for Sundin and Gilmour who will both get in eventually, are hall of famers. And if they want to put in great role players, they can throw in elite defensive players like Metz, Klukay, Pulford and Armstrong.

And that's before you consider the better defense and goaltending. Toronto would definitely be up there in teams, and I'd say are comparable to Chicago and Detroit

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