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Ken Holland (Red Wings GM) understands Gauthier's decision to trade Halak

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Old
08-26-2010, 02:30 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Or I just think that it's stupid to compare Detroit trading Mike Vernon to Montreal trading Jaroslav Halak. Vernon was acquired to back-up Osgood (playoff experience + SC ring) & just happen to steal the starting job during the '97 playoffs. He played like a man possessed. He was also 34 when he got traded. In the end, Detroit made the right move; they went with Osgood, who ended up being better than Vernon. Montreal, on the other hand, traded away Halak, who will be miles ahead of Carey Price for the next 8-10 years & Montreal will be hurting for it.
I want your crystal ball.

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08-26-2010, 02:38 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
I prefer a GM who stick to his plan even if the fans won't like it.


Imagine if Gauthier was to listen to fans....why not making us vote on trade proposal
Facepalm all you want but there is an lower tier English soccer club that got into economic difficulties and was bought by its own fan club. Now the fans, by voting, decides on everything that goes on.
I dont remember how they do they coaching during games but everything else is down to the fan base.

Probably not the most effecient way to run a club, I wouldnt think it gets any easier doing it at the NHL level...


On-topic:
Damn, Halak vs Price all over again is pretty refreshing all of a sudden. And Toronto fans coming along...
Where is my :popcorn: smilie?

My prediction?
Halak and Price both bomb, Vokoun is the best NHL goalie for the next 45 years and breaks each and every record in the NHL.

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Old
08-26-2010, 02:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Just for fun, take a look at Fleury's stats for his first 130ish games, and compare them to Price. Then come back here so that I can mock you.
That's not what I mean. Fleury played behind some of the worst hockey teams ever assembled. I am saying Price has focus problems like Fleury, he is VERY "Fleuryesque". All the skill with half the mind.

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08-26-2010, 02:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Gauthier didn't care about Halak's or his agent intentions. He mentioned it clearly in an interview at the question "Did you know what he was asking for" Gauthier said that he didn't need to ask him, that he knew what he'd ask for anyway.

Yes, there's a lot of things to consider. Halak did end up getting a 3.75 cap hit. So other decisions would have needed to be made. Trying to make other moves. Dealing Price instead so that the return would have been Eller-Schultz type of players and maybe more.

So yes, our opinions have to be based on what transpires and what we know. 'Cause if we'd wait to get some news from this organization, might as well close this board....
We heard from one other key source besides Gauthier--Halak's agent. His remarks came before the playoffs and they didn't sound amiable and they certainly weren't complimentary to Price. I'm pretty sure you read the thread devoted to it. I believe that even if the Habs had lots of room under the cap and Gauthier had offered Halak $3.75M to remain the offer would havr been turned down if Price also remained on the team. Do you share my belief?

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08-26-2010, 02:56 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
We heard from one other key source besides Gauthier--Halak's agent. His remarks came before the playoffs and they didn't sound amiable and they certainly weren't complimentary to Price. I'm pretty sure you read the thread devoted to it. I believe that even if the Habs had lots of room under the cap and Gauthier had offered Halak $3.75M to remain the offer would havr been turned down if Price also remained on the team. Do you share my belief?
as per Gauthiers interview after the trade, he indicated strongly that neither party wanted to repeat last year's experience

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Old
08-26-2010, 03:11 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
We heard from one other key source besides Gauthier--Halak's agent. His remarks came before the playoffs and they didn't sound amiable and they certainly weren't complimentary to Price. I'm pretty sure you read the thread devoted to it. I believe that even if the Habs had lots of room under the cap and Gauthier had offered Halak $3.75M to remain the offer would havr been turned down if Price also remained on the team. Do you share my belief?
Wouldn't surprise me one bit. Both kids seemed to not want the other one around. Yet, I think that if I would have wanted to keep both guys, I'd try to sell them that not only they'd all had their share of games (in no way in a 2-headed monster system, would one have 65 games and the other one 15) but that a decision would have been made within the year.

What I hate the most if your scenario is true and it's entirely possible it is, is that we often deal while being screwed and not having the upperhand on it. A whole lot of guys we've traded in the recent past "had" to be traded and right now. You can't have the best of deal though like I mention again, in the Halak deal, I do believe we got a good one.

So would talking to both of them, mentioning how they'd be used regularly and saying how this year would definately be the last year of the duo be enough for both of them to be satisfied? We're not going to know that as well.

Though what if......there was no deal to make? What if Eller wasn't offered and only Perron was and Gauthier wasn't interested? Do you still to the deal just because Halak has asked to do it? Would Halak turn down a 3,75 M$ if in the end you are not only able to tell him that it might be a contract he wouldn't see anywhere else BUT also that him being signed to a fine contract like that might attract teams that would preferred a signed Halak than a non-signed one, making him more attractive, making a deal more plausible? It's all great that nobody wanted to repeat last year's experience. Yet, Price had no leverage, while Halak had a little more....but I wouldn't trade a guy just because he's asked to leave until I get my deal and a little bit more.

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08-26-2010, 03:30 PM
  #82
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Get over it guys, geez, its over, who cares. This is starting to get into the Kessel trade and Leafs fan territory.

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08-26-2010, 03:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Get over it guys, geez, its over, who cares. This is starting to get into the Kessel trade and Leafs fan territory.
There was a new tidbit of info thanks to Holland and the journalist that has asked him the question, it has been reported, been talk about and will die down soon. Will not get into the Halak vs Price debate, that's over. But what Holland had to think about it is somehow interesting, at least enough to talk about.

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Old
08-26-2010, 03:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
There was a new tidbit of info thanks to Holland and the journalist that has asked him the question, it has been reported, been talk about and will die down soon. Will not get into the Halak vs Price debate, that's over. But what Holland had to think about it is somehow interesting, at least enough to talk about.
It is interesting, but then it just drivels down to the same arguments that have presented themselves time and time ad nauseum.

I still can't understand why so many people think this situation is "so much different", its really not. Yes, the ages may be different, but no situations are completely comparable.

Vernon was an excellent goalie, always was, and was really good with Calgary. He was brought in to Detriot to bulk up the goaltending and to support Osgood. Not unlike the way Huet was traded, and Halak was put in to support Price. Vernon then went on an amazing run, stealing the job and winning the cup with Detriot. Bringing them the cup for the first year in a long time, and becoming an instant fan favourite. But the Wings had to take a chance, and traded the older goalie in favour of the younger Osgood.

Despite what Vernon did for them that year, they made the decision to go against the grain and popular choice, and did what was best for the team.

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08-26-2010, 04:03 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
I prefer a GM who stick to his plan even if the fans won't like it.


Imagine if Gauthier was to listen to fans....why not making us vote on trade proposal
It will be bad for the medias who complain about everything, if the GM do what the people want the medias will shut down.

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Old
08-26-2010, 04:05 PM
  #86
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and to think Holland traded Vernon, a Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe winner for 2 2nd round draft picks. neither of which the organisation even kept! lol

and ppl complain about what PG got for Halak!

like i said since the beginning, i agree with the decision to move Halak, and i am happy with the return that PG got.

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Old
08-26-2010, 04:18 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
my appreciation of halak revolves around this question;

when has halak let us down ? The answer is never.

huet injury, trip out west 2 years ago, this year's season, this year's playoffs .... those were his only opportunities to shine, and he did. Can you really blame fans like me to be curious about where the halak experience would go ? He is lightyears ahead of price between the hears. Just take price unsportsmanlike penalties against washington as a good enough example of something halak wouldn't do.

I see it the other way around, and we are thus meant to disagree ; price has potential, but it cannot be the only argument. anymore. the organisation cheated time and time again in his favour, its time for someone to answer the call ; price plays well, or Molson has to start a riot in the front office. and thats just common sense.
The last game of the season where we needed 1 point to make the playoffs. That was a high pressure game and he played terribly and almost fu**ed it up. Thank god the team played well and was playing the lousy Leafs, otherwise there was no playoffs!

Halak also performed below average in some of the playoffs games. He was not consistent at all.

Sorry, but anyone saying that Halak is proven is compeltely blinded by their love for the guy. He still as a lot to prove before being a reliable starter, which he as never done for a full season yet in the NHL.

And NO, that is not common sense at all. Price might take another year or 2 before becoming dominant (like most goalies do at the age of 25 and up), so to start a riot would be foolish and plain dumb!

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08-26-2010, 04:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
The last game of the season where we needed 1 point to make the playoffs. That was a high pressure game and he played terribly and almost fu**ed it up. Thank god the team played well and was playing the lousy Leafs, otherwise there was no playoffs!

Halak also performed below average in some of the playoffs games. He was not consistent at all.

Sorry, but anyone saying that Halak is proven is compeltely blinded by their love for the guy. He still as a lot to prove before being a reliable starter, which he as never done for a full season yet in the NHL.

And NO, that is not common sense at all. Price might take another year or 2 before becoming dominant (like most goalies do at the age of 25 and up), so to start a riot would be foolish and plain dumb!

what!? not consistent ? Nice job on cherry picking one ''intense'' game, and letting the game 7s and the entire playoffs/road to playoffs aside. too bad you didn't get to watch any games. If I were you, I'd edit that part before getting the GTFO noob blessing . Its one thing to prefer price, but halak has been nothing short of good in the playoffs.

never said halak was proven, but rather than he is more than price.

have nothing against price peaking at 25 even 30, but the organisation showed us they believe he can do the job NOW. Based on that, he better play well NOW , or someone needs to pay for making him the #1 , trading, huet, halak . That ... is common sense. whether its price playing well or someone losing his job, I don't even care, but it has to be one or the other.

whats dumb is rushing a franchise goalie to save your ass as a GM, not the insatisfaction of a honest fan.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 08-26-2010 at 04:49 PM.
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08-26-2010, 04:32 PM
  #89
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I really think Halak will struggle this year, mainly because of his new expectations...he will now have pressure he never had before...and is making some serious coin vs last year....he also doesn't seem to be able to play 7-8 games in a row without tiring, or having a couple of real bad games, which also happened in the playoffs this year....

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08-26-2010, 04:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
what!? not consistent ? Nice job on cherry picking one ''intense'' game, and letting the two game 7 and the entire playoffs aside. too bad you didn't get to watch any games. If I were you, I'd edit that part before getting the GTFO noob blessing. Its one thing to prefer price, but halak has been nothing short of good in the playoffs.

never said halak was proven, but rather than he is more than price.

have nothing against price peaking at 25, but the organisation showed us they believe he can do the job NOW. Based on that, he better play well NOW , or someone needs to pay for making him the #1 , trading, huet, halak . That ... is common sense. whether its price playing well or someone losing his job, I don't even care, but its one or the other.

whats dumb is rushing a franchise goalie to save your ass as a GM.
You mean risked his ass as a GM

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08-26-2010, 04:43 PM
  #91
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You mean risked his ass as a GM
considering how that turned out ? yes.

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08-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
what!? not consistent ? Nice job on cherry picking one ''intense'' game, and letting the two game 7 and the entire playoffs/road to playoffs aside. too bad you didn't get to watch any games. If I were you, I'd edit that part before getting the GTFO noob blessing . Its one thing to prefer price, but halak has been nothing short of good in the playoffs.

never said halak was proven, but rather than he is more than price.

have nothing against price peaking at 25 even 30, but the organisation showed us they believe he can do the job NOW. Based on that, he better play well NOW , or someone needs to pay for making him the #1 , trading, huet, halak . That ... is common sense. whether its price playing well or someone losing his job, I don't even care, but it has to be one or the other.

whats dumb is rushing a franchise goalie to save your ass as a GM, not the insatisfaction of a honest fan.
Where did I say Halak was not good in the playoffs? Overall, he was good and was more good than bad thus allowing us to go threw 2 rounds, but he was not consistent at all. He played a few bad games that put us in a hole before standing on his head to dig us out of that hole. Maybe you should have watched all the games!

I did not cherry pick one game. You asked when did he let us down and I answered your question. I was very disapointed with Halak's performance in that game and I remember not being confident with him going into the playoffs because he literaly stank in our most important game of the season! Its more a question of you avoiding to look at reality!

Maybe you need to learn what words actually mean before going off like a mad man. Consistent means doing all the time.

LOL at Halak being more proven than Price who as more NHL games under his belt and at least 1 full season at being number 1 unlike Halak.

As for Price breaking at 25, I said being dominant, not breaking as a number 1. I'm quite confident that at worst, he will be a good goalie before tapping is full potential and becoming a top goalie and I don't mind that at all. He has to play to reach that potential, but like many other Hbas fans, you want everything right away and have the patience of a 4 year old who wants is candy! That is why it would be dumb to satrt a riot.

Go, change your post before you get the you are clueless an know nothing about hockey blessing.

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08-26-2010, 05:07 PM
  #93
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NEWSBREAK: Halak is gone. Get-over-it!!!

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08-26-2010, 05:16 PM
  #94
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I really think Halak will struggle this year, mainly because of his new expectations...he will now have pressure he never had before...and is making some serious coin vs last year....he also doesn't seem to be able to play 7-8 games in a row without tiring, or having a couple of real bad games, which also happened in the playoffs this year....
When you face 40 shots a game, it's understandable. I don't think he'll be facing as many shots in St. Louis. I also think he's a hard worker and will be OK under pressure. People forget this guy played very well in the Olympics (high pressure) as well as 2 game 7's in the playoffs (high pressure).

Now, I don't really know if he will be a stud in St.Louis. They're not that great of a team and he's still fairly unproven. He's similar to Price but he has just had more success at this point. He's also older.

I have no issue with PG trading Halak. I think trading Halak was probably the better move. Goalies are a dime a dozen nowadays...if Price ends up not being the right fit then they'll find a goalie to replace him. I think the key right now and into the future is to build up the defense. If you can insulate a goalie with good solid D-men you can do quite well in this league.

I find Price and Halak stans/bashers to be so frigging annoying. He's gone, get over it.

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08-26-2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
NEWSBREAK: Halak is gone. Get-over-it!!!
*THIS JUST IN*

I'm being told by our reporter that we're currently in the off season, and this is a message board....

Interviewed on the scene this poster had the following to say :

"Man, I'm so fed up about people telling me what I can post and what I can't post. I mean, dude, there's an ignore thread button, I'd use it if I was the sort to be easily annoyed, or I'd just not read certain threads that are clearly about the very subject I'm annoyed with, but that's just me".

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08-26-2010, 05:22 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Also possible that as professionnals you are, maybe you are not totally aware of what's going in every team of the league. Except Burke, rarely will you see and hear a GM bashing another one. So to me, Holland was just polite and we don't know they could be best of friends.

In the same statement, Holland understands Gauthier's decision....and then says that (on the cyberpresse article)

Translation: About the pressure, Holland says that Price won't have the choice to compose with it. If we can't deal with pressure, it might be because we're not doing the right job. When you are in this league, it means that you are able to deal with pressure.

So....do we know a whole lot of NHL or any professionnal sports athletes that compose with pressure better than others? And then, there's Columbus pressure.....Wings pressure....and Habs pressure. And we're talking about the goalie position....in Montreal. This is NOT pressure. This is beyond that. So while Holland believes in Price's talent, like we all do, he mentions that Price surely is able to deal with it since he's in the league....We'll see soon if that's enough.

As far as that statement "Professionnals know more than amateurs"....clearly should be true. Doesn't refrain them for being fired at least every 2-3 years.....

I respect Holland for what he did for his team. Clearly best GM of the league for a very very long time. But to me, his statement is more about a fellow GM "helping" another GM who's criticized a lot than a real acknowledgment of what's going, what's our status and all. Yes, salary cap is an issue. Of course. I would have made other sacrifices to keep both goalies at least till the deadline to know FOR SURE who I'd put my faith on for the next 10-15 years.
I will trust Gauthier for now...obviously we were never keeping both goalies next year...that was never in the plan...we chose Price and I am happy with that...win or lose...and we got a great return for Halak and I am happy with that also...so instead of whining about this all year...let's just move on shall we?

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08-26-2010, 05:58 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post


1) I did not cherry pick one game. You asked when did he let us down and I answered your question. I was very disapointed with Halak's performance in that game and I remember not being confident with him going into the playoffs because he literaly stank in our most important game of the season! Its more a question of you avoiding to look at reality!

2) Maybe you need to learn what words actually mean before going off like a mad man. Consistent means doing all the time.

3) LOL at Halak being more proven than Price who as more NHL games under his belt and at least 1 full season at being number 1 unlike Halak.

4) As for Price breaking at 25, I said being dominant, not breaking as a number 1. I'm quite confident that at worst, he will be a good goalie before tapping is full potential and becoming a top goalie and I don't mind that at all. He has to play to reach that potential, but like many other Hbas fans, you want everything right away and have the patience of a 4 year old who wants is candy! That is why it would be dumb to satrt a riot.

5) Go, change your post before you get the you are clueless an know nothing about hockey blessing.
1) you cherry picked, read your own post.

2) consitent ; over a period of time, like ; a season. or the playoffs...of course you will have bad games, but when you zoom out, can you really say halak has been inconsistent (more than the average), in his general performance ?

3) today , imo, halak > price. Carey's potential could give us all a boner it won't change reality. concrete example ; carey's unsportdmanlike conduct penalty when game was still at reach vs washington. Picture yourself being a teamate. this is my opinion, based on my analysis, which I'm entitled to. We always get pictured like we are the only ''crazy'' ones thinking that. As if price was undoubtably better. give me a break. and ask around if you think I'm alone.

4) Carey is shoved down my throat like a candy, by the organisation, and by fans like you. It has nothing to do with fans being impatient, its all about the organisation being impatient.

yeah because I'm not sold on price, I know nothing about hockey. keep playing with words and pretend you dialogue in good faith, but stop acting surprised when someone rants please.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 08-26-2010 at 06:16 PM.
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08-26-2010, 06:14 PM
  #98
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Despite what Vernon did for them that year, they made the decision to go against the grain and popular choice, and did what was best for the team.
True and this is similar. And true that there's never 2 exact situations. Which for me I don't see the relevancy to make the comparison anyway. But solely on the topic of "He made an unpopular move, moving a guy who had made some great things for them", well I just wanted to know how really unpopular it was. Doesn,t take a whole lot to believe that it had to be unpopular but at what degree? We know that Vernon's stint with the Wings had his ups and downs, nothing I believe the fans experienced with Halak and it is also possible that the Wings fans believed more that they had the team in his entirety to make up for a more unexperience goalie while in Montreal we still believe that the goalie has to save us for us to have a chance at winning.

So we all know the madness in Montreal is much greater than the one in Detroit. We also know the love we had for this player, was it the same for the Wings. Seems to me that every other crowd in this league shows way more maturity than our crowd and fans do.

That is just what I wanted to point out. But I agree with the "sometimes a GM has to do the toughest of things even if it's unpopular" statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Niagara View Post
so instead of whining about this all year...let's just move on shall we?
Clearly, that's what I had in mind when I choose to respond to this thread that was made....today....and is about to die down in the weekend.

I can tell you one thing, and remember that one for me......if you think you won't see a Halak vs Price tons of threads this year....you better find another forum to post in. And you can also be sure of one thing. Those threads won't be coming from me. If people thought that the Ribeiro and Latendresse threads were irritating....better get used to the Halak vs Price ALL YEAR LONG.

Though might as well suggest the mods to have a stick Price vs Halak...might save the trouble.

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08-26-2010, 06:41 PM
  #99
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If Halak sustains what he's shown, we will have been robbed in this deal. Eller is a third line center. Looks like he will be a nice player, but he's not an elite goalie that can get you to the third round. The goalie is still the most important player on the ice last I checked.

Holland seems to be trash talking and trying to get in Halak's head in that article, nothing more. They are now division rivals, obviously. He's devaluing Halak in a backhanded way.

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08-26-2010, 07:04 PM
  #100
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Damn you Holland!! Damn YOU!! (ok well, probably the journalist)

Just when the whole Halak vs Price 'debate' died down a bit, someone just haaaaaaaad to mention the trade.

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