HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

What would you offer for Mike Ribeiro?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-19-2005, 12:16 PM
  #276
Crossroads*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Yes, and all this for 1 measily incident

I'm not even a big Ribeiro fan, but come on...would people be saying this about Forsberg? does he also have no value?

Does Alexander Semin have no value?
What about Darcy Tucker?

I can prett much name 1/3 of the NHL's players who embellish they're injuries to get a PP and I bet Ribeiro is the only one who would get responses like this, please mods, just close this down

Stupid

Again you bring up Darcy Tucker. Tucker is double the player Ribeiro is.

Stupid

Crossroads* is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 12:22 PM
  #277
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Again you bring up Darcy Tucker. Tucker is double the player Ribeiro is.

Stupid
Your the stupid one...

I wasn't comparing both players...and if you read this thread, you'd actually read that Nucks fan in TO stated that Ribeiro's value is higher than Tucker's, and that's a statement I don't agree with, so your venom shouldn't be directed towards me...I really don't see where in my post you deducted that I thought Ribeiro was a better player than Tucker?

Edit-sorry, I take that back, your not stupid...but take the time to read my post carefully before you go on, it might help eliminate threads going into oblivion...

417 is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 12:55 PM
  #278
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,105
vCash: 500
I'd rather have Semin than Ribeiro, but the Flyers need scoring wingers, not more centers.

mercury is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 01:17 PM
  #279
Crossroads*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Your the stupid one...

I wasn't comparing both players...and if you read this thread, you'd actually read that Nucks fan in TO stated that Ribeiro's value is higher than Tucker's, and that's a statement I don't agree with, so your venom shouldn't be directed towards me...I really don't see where in my post you deducted that I thought Ribeiro was a better player than Tucker?

Edit-sorry, I take that back, your not stupid...but take the time to read my post carefully before you go on, it might help eliminate threads going into oblivion...
I just don't understand why you'd bring up Darcy Tucker in this thread. He has nothing to do with Ribeiro.

It is almost as if you use his name in an insulting way (such as, "Well, so and so may suck but he's no Darcy Tucker" <-- Just an example).

I apologize either way.

Crossroads* is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 02:20 PM
  #280
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
I just don't understand why you'd bring up Darcy Tucker in this thread. He has nothing to do with Ribeiro.

It is almost as if you use his name in an insulting way (such as, "Well, so and so may suck but he's no Darcy Tucker" <-- Just an example).

I apologize either way.
Well, I was just bringing up some players just off the top of my head that I remembered seeing, embellishing calls or injuries to get a penalty, Semin was one of them, Forsberg another, and I added Tucker...

Don't get me wrong, I think Tucker is one tough SOB, i'd love to have him on my team anyday, but antagonizing the opposing team is part of his role, and nobody does it better, and i've seen several times Tucker exagerrate certain things on the ice, Tyson Nash is another...Steve Begin another...

It was just in response to some saying that Ribeiro was a disgrace to the habs, my point is things like that happen all time, why is it that everyone is magnifying it now that were talking about Ribeiro's value, it never comes up when discussing the above mentionned players value...that's all I was saying...

No need to apologize, just some miscommunication

417 is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 04:20 PM
  #281
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley


People undervalue him so much, thats crazy. I understand that he needs to put the number again if we want his value to skyrocket.. but come on ... a 2nd round pick. People tends to overvalue so much draft pick here.. You've got about 1/30 chances to pick a player that will have some kind of impact. Would I trade a 2nd round pick for a guy with some crazy stickhandling and vision skill? A guy that produces at every single level he's been to? A guy who finally had a 65 points breakout season at the NHL level?

Ribs may not be the thoughest man out there, he may not be the hardest worker, but one thing he have plenty of is guts. He want to suceed, he want to win, and he will.

Anyway, you wont get him for a 2nd. Not even for a first for that matter, unless it's top-10.
read my post again that you quoted!

I wasn't referring to Ribeiro... but saying that a UFA Forsberg, who's still a question mark to even re-sign is worth a 2nd round pick - or less, depending on if a team wants to gamble on him coming back to sign elsewhere, so they get that 2nd round compensation pick for him.

This was in response to the comment on Forsberg, saying - Is he worthless?

Please read my post before saying it's crazy if you're going to respond to it.

NFITO is online now  
Old
04-19-2005, 04:31 PM
  #282
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I knew someone would think I was comparing him to the others

I just brought up names of players, who have been known to dive, or embellish injuries to benefit their teams (yes, Tucker has done that, but i'm not saying he's a wimp, calm down Leafs fans)...

So let me get this straight, Semin's to you, has more value than Ribeiro?

I'll agree with you, that Semin's potential might be higher, but you argue that Ribeiro's value is low, because he's only proven to score 65 points 1 time in his career, yet you think Semin has more value after he's score 22 points also 1 time in his career...seems to me like your contradicting yourself

One second you say, Ribeiro's value isin't high because he's only proven to score at a good rate once in his career...

Yet you value Semin's value higher based upon him playing 52 games and netting 22 points, and him having a higher potential...

Yet a few pages back, you value Torres value higher, and his potential isin't higher than Ribeiro's, it's because he's a more useful player in your opinion, he brings more to the table...

Both Semin and Ribeiro are smallish, hell, I think Ribeiro might be bigger than Semin, both aren't what i'd call defensive stalwarts, both are extremely creative players, the only edge Semin has on Ribeiro is speed...is that what makes his value higher?

Sorry, you've brought up some very good arguments in this thread, and I mean that, but this last one, has left me scratching my head...

Your telling me now that both Torres and Semin have more value in the NHL right now than Ribeiro, Ribeiro scored more points by himself than those 2 combined...3 or 4 years from now, you may be right, but as of right now, i'm sorry, but i'd have to say that Ribeiro can fetch you more than those 2 can...as unproven that Ribeiro is, those two are even more
I guess it all depends on what potential is to you - which I agree is completely subjective.

IMO Torres and Semin have more potential than Ribeiro... I'm not saying offensive potential alone, but more potential to be impact players for their teams.

That's why I'd take either of those two over Ribeiro.

With Ribeiro, again it's a question of fit on teams... Torres fits more teams easily than Ribeiro does - thus his value is higher... Semin can be developed slowly - doesn't ahve to be given a top 6 role right away, and can even go the minors to develop. He's got much more time to get to his peak than Ribeiro does as it is.

But again, I guess the easiest way to judge value IMO - and you've still ignored this, despite telling me 2 weeks ago that you'd go through the list - is to come up with a list of teams that could use a guy like Ribeiro and then figure out what they'd give up for him - this is market value.

You've taken this thread off topic to the incident as much as anyone has, and yet seemed annoyed that the incident keeps coming up. So why not actually do this exercise to judge player value, rather than hanging on to your opinions without putting them through the test.

So here's the exercise - if you want to ignore it again, then just let me know that you can't be bothered to look into it... at least this way I know that you don't want to consider market value based on demand, but only on what you think the player can do... but if you want to do this, I'm game, and will respond and indepth to each situation to gauge a fair market value for this player:

1) List all teams that have a hole on the 2nd line center, or teams where you think that Ribeiro could upgrade their center spot.

2) Eliminate teams that have a suitable enough 2nd liner there (while you might think that Ribeiro is better, it's not worth it for the team to give up anything of value to "upgrade" to Ribeiro.

3) List the bottom line price that the Habs will need in order to move Ribeiro (ie. a 2nd round pick... or a young #4 dman... or a comparable top 6 winger, etc)...

And then lets see how many of the teams you listed will meet the *minimum* demand for Ribeiro and are willing to acquire him for that. At this point we can even take this to the team boards, and while it's impossible eliminate biases - and people will still talk about the incident - you will get a better guage of player value by doing that, then simply disagreeing with what others have to say.

So, you said before that you'd be up for this challenge 2 weeks (or more) ago... are you backing out, or will you put your money where you mouth is - so to speak?

NFITO is online now  
Old
04-19-2005, 05:11 PM
  #283
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I guess it all depends on what potential is to you - which I agree is completely subjective.

IMO Torres and Semin have more potential than Ribeiro... I'm not saying offensive potential alone, but more potential to be impact players for their teams.

That's why I'd take either of those two over Ribeiro.

With Ribeiro, again it's a question of fit on teams... Torres fits more teams easily than Ribeiro does - thus his value is higher... Semin can be developed slowly - doesn't ahve to be given a top 6 role right away, and can even go the minors to develop. He's got much more time to get to his peak than Ribeiro does as it is.

But again, I guess the easiest way to judge value IMO - and you've still ignored this, despite telling me 2 weeks ago that you'd go through the list - is to come up with a list of teams that could use a guy like Ribeiro and then figure out what they'd give up for him - this is market value.

You've taken this thread off topic to the incident as much as anyone has, and yet seemed annoyed that the incident keeps coming up. So why not actually do this exercise to judge player value, rather than hanging on to your opinions without putting them through the test.

So here's the exercise - if you want to ignore it again, then just let me know that you can't be bothered to look into it... at least this way I know that you don't want to consider market value based on demand, but only on what you think the player can do... but if you want to do this, I'm game, and will respond and indepth to each situation to gauge a fair market value for this player:

1) List all teams that have a hole on the 2nd line center, or teams where you think that Ribeiro could upgrade their center spot.

2) Eliminate teams that have a suitable enough 2nd liner there (while you might think that Ribeiro is better, it's not worth it for the team to give up anything of value to "upgrade" to Ribeiro.

3) List the bottom line price that the Habs will need in order to move Ribeiro (ie. a 2nd round pick... or a young #4 dman... or a comparable top 6 winger, etc)...

And then lets see how many of the teams you listed will meet the *minimum* demand for Ribeiro and are willing to acquire him for that. At this point we can even take this to the team boards, and while it's impossible eliminate biases - and people will still talk about the incident - you will get a better guage of player value by doing that, then simply disagreeing with what others have to say.

So, you said before that you'd be up for this challenge 2 weeks (or more) ago... are you backing out, or will you put your money where you mouth is - so to speak?
I did your excercise mentally, and I see what your saying, it's hard to find a fit on a team for Ribeiro, I thought I had said that already thus conceded defeat on that point I guess not...

That's beside the point though, people are now obsessed with size, speed all that crap...all I want to know is, if can you play and produce, if teams looked at it that way, which is the way it's supposed to be, Ribeiro could help any team, he's a great PP threat, and if he's surrounded by the right type of players, he'll rack up a ton of points...

Some teams would rather have big stiffs like Arkhipov, Gratton, Lindros, Holik, H. Sedin, Antropov...play on their 2nd lines and rack up 40 to 50 points because they're big, then those same people go complain that there's no scoring in the NHL...

Here's my point Nucks fan....if any needs scoring, Ribeiro's is a very good option, not to mention he's cheap, and nothing you say, no homework assignement you come up with can change my mind...

As for me bringing up the "incident" the only time I have, was to reply to someone who did, cause I find it stupid as it's clogging this thread, so if i'm guilty of anything, it's that, but I don't bring it up for no reason...

417 is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 05:38 PM
  #284
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I did your excercise mentally, and I see what your saying, it's hard to find a fit on a team for Ribeiro, I thought I had said that already thus conceded defeat on that point I guess not...

That's beside the point though, people are now obsessed with size, speed all that crap...all I want to know is, if can you play and produce, if teams looked at it that way, which is the way it's supposed to be, Ribeiro could help any team, he's a great PP threat, and if he's surrounded by the right type of players, he'll rack up a ton of points...

Some teams would rather have big stiffs like Arkhipov, Gratton, Lindros, Holik, H. Sedin, Antropov...play on their 2nd lines and rack up 40 to 50 points because they're big, then those same people go complain that there's no scoring in the NHL...

Here's my point Nucks fan....if any needs scoring, Ribeiro's is a very good option, not to mention he's cheap, and nothing you say, no homework assignement you come up with can change my mind...

As for me bringing up the "incident" the only time I have, was to reply to someone who did, cause I find it stupid as it's clogging this thread, so if i'm guilty of anything, it's that, but I don't bring it up for no reason...
I won't comment on the others, but will on Henrik, since you brought him up.

So you said that any team that needs scoring, Ribeiro would be a good fit. The canucks are one of the top teams in the league scoring wise... their 2nd line - Daniel and Henrik are among the top points per minute players in the league... their PP is among the best in the league. Scoring isn't the issue with this team. The issue is size and grit in the top 6, especially the 2nd line. Does replacing Henrik in any way improve this if we bring in Ribeiro??

Daniel is a worse player without Henrik, then he is with him... so taking the risk of replacing a better, bigger, 2-way player in Henrik, with Ribeiro, makes no sense... saying that Henrik is a stiff, makes no sense.

Saying the canucks would need more scoring, and could sacrifice size to do it, makes no sense.

The canucks are just one of many examples of teams that have no need for Ribeiro and wouldn't trade anything of value for him. Saying he is a better fit for our team (one that many believe needs to add to their grit in the top 6), and a better fit with Daniel - well that's the problem with all your Ribeiro value here - you aren't taking other factors, such as the ones I've talked about with Vancouver, into account.

This is why you can't judge a player's value without looking at what teams would be interested in a player like that.

Sure, if scoring is all a team needs and is willing to sacrifice other things to get it done, then maybe there would be more interest in Ribeiro, but the teams that need scoring down the middle, don't want to sacrifice (or can't afford to sacrifice) those other things, which bring the player's market value down.

I would never consider dealing Henrik or replacing him with Ribeiro as a canuck fan... while you may think he's better - and he well might be - consider that the canucks can't afford to lose size down the middle, and consider the other player's chemsitry or fit (ie. Daniel) with their current center, then they would have with a replacement.

NFITO is online now  
Old
04-19-2005, 05:41 PM
  #285
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,765
vCash: 500
Awards:
I would have no desire to have Ribeiro on my team, and if I'm Vancouver there's no way I trade H. Sedin for him.

Classic Devil is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 05:53 PM
  #286
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Your right Nucks fan in TO...

How bout we just keep Ribeiro with the Habs, he has no value...

This has been an interesting day...here's a recap for everyone who hasn't been following...

Torres > Ryder, Ribeiro, and Darcy Tucker

Sorry, i'm not directing this at you, but i'm starting to realize that opinions here aren't exactly what i'd call objective...and this is pointless...

For what it's worth, I agree with you that, Ribeiro, is a tough fit for alot of teams in the NHL, and is probably worth more to Montreal, than he would any other team

417 is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 06:01 PM
  #287
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
For what it's worth, I agree with you that, Ribeiro, is a tough fit for alot of teams in the NHL, and is probably worth more to Montreal, than he would any other team
that was my whole point to begin with... I'm not going to debate his value, without taking market considerations into account, because IMO value doesn't mean anything if you don't take market considerations.

he is without a doubt worth more to Montreal than he would on the market.

I'm glad we can finally agree on this. Nothing to do with any incidents, or even talking about potential compared to other players (because again that's more subjective)... but as objectively as we can look at this, teams will not give up anything worthwhile to Montreal to get Ribeiro.

NFITO is online now  
Old
04-19-2005, 06:02 PM
  #288
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
that was my whole point to begin with... I'm not going to debate his value, without taking market considerations into account, because IMO value doesn't mean anything if you don't take market considerations.

he is without a doubt worth more to Montreal than he would on the market.

I'm glad we can finally agree on this. Nothing to do with any incidents, or even talking about potential compared to other players (because again that's more subjective)... but as objectively as we can look at this, teams will not give up anything worthwhile to Montreal to get Ribeiro.


Fine, fair point, but to say he's not worth a damn thing, is pushing it...I know you didin't say that...

417 is offline  
Old
04-19-2005, 06:17 PM
  #289
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,868
vCash: 500
all in all it's been a good discussion, now that we've wrapped it up

I'd still be real curious to see what he could bring back in a trade - realistically.

I'm interested in seeing the few teams that would have interest, and what they'd be willing to move.

Obviously the guy isn't worthless... Jarkko Ruutu isn't worthless!!! Ribeiro wouldn't clear waivers, and no team would say no - whether they need him or not - if the price was a 3rd rounder for him (simply because the cost is worthwhile to get him, even if he doesn't help the team, because he'll still have more value as an asset than a 3rd, and can still flip him for more come deadline time, or an injury to another team's top 2 center).

But I'm willing to bet that whatever a team offers, Montreal fans will think that it's not enough to move him.

Honestly though... it's been a good discussion, and overall a good thread, even though it had some immature responses early on from some people, and instead of actually talking about possible value, we've beaten the dead "incident" horse.

NFITO is online now  
Old
04-19-2005, 06:18 PM
  #290
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
all in all it's been a good discussion, now that we've wrapped it up

I'd still be real curious to see what he could bring back in a trade - realistically.

I'm interested in seeing the few teams that would have interest, and what they'd be willing to move.

Obviously the guy isn't worthless... Jarkko Ruutu isn't worthless!!! Ribeiro wouldn't clear waivers, and no team would say no - whether they need him or not - if the price was a 3rd rounder for him (simply because the cost is worthwhile to get him, even if he doesn't help the team, because he'll still have more value as an asset than a 3rd, and can still flip him for more come deadline time, or an injury to another team's top 2 center).

But I'm willing to bet that whatever a team offers, Montreal fans will think that it's not enough to move him.

Honestly though... it's been a good discussion, and overall a good thread, even though it had some immature responses early on from some people, and instead of actually talking about possible value, we've beaten the dead "incident" horse.
Indeed, very good discussion, thanks for keeping it civil...

417 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.